Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[SmashChu]

A mod needs to get this and spread it on

http://mynintendonews.com/2012/08/2...and-nintendo-3ds-will-have-lots-of-new-moves/

Apparently existing characters are getting a lot of new moves!

Actually, they read into it wrong. Sakurai said just this.

“It’s fun making new skills for new characters.”

Just expect what Brawl did. No major change to old characters.

Unfortunately, Diddy Kong is not alone in this thinking. It seems as the Impa infection has spread as time went on as I see more and more rosters replace Sheik with Impa.

I will bet my copy of SSB4 and $100 that Sheik stays and Impa is left out. There is no reason why Sheik should be cut for Impa when we have a much better potential Zelda rep in Ghirahim.

People want to know why I so virulently oppose any cuts on Nintendo vets and abysmal suggestions like cutting Sheik for Impa are reasons why.

Impa is one of the worst suggestions that gets semi-regular mentions. Even if she was a standalone character and Sheik stayed, I still would be against her inclusion.

I know what you mean. More people are cutting Sheik for Impa. Of course, this seems retained to GameFAQs and is far from the majority. Thinking about it, it's just like Brawl. People though some characters were to be replaced with others because of relevancy. We still thought Ness was cut, and we had go reason to believe so (some what).

I think the fact that we have to replace Sheik to put Impa in and have her as a tumor on Zelda shows how weak the character is. If Impa was a strong choice and people liked her, we would suggest Impa over Ghirahim. The truth is that Ghirahim stays the Zelda favorite while Impa supporters tend to try and make her important and put her with Zelda (basically taking an unimportant and uninteresting character and having leech on an important character). I think you comments on Impa show that not a lot of people are for her.

 

[~automatic]

The Sheik/Zelda combo is one of the most unique character transformations ever in a fighter.

Not to mention that Sheik being Zelda's alter ego is one of the most memorable things from OoT imo.

 

[Big-Cat]

The Sheik/Zelda combo is one of the most unique character transformations ever in a fighter.

Not to mention that Sheik being Zelda's alter ego is one of the most memorable things from OoT imo.

It may be unique, but it's anything but efficient.

 

[SmashChu]

It may be unique, but it's anything but efficient.

Really now?

The relatively large discrepancy between Sheilda and Sheik is due to the fact that a lot more monetary winnings were reported for the combination, rather than Sheik or Zelda on their own. Sheilda's matchup spread is only marginally better than Sheik's and the two were significantly closer in votes as well. We will reconsider the inclusion of Sheilda for next time.

Link

 

[~automatic]

I think he's referring to the long transformation/loading time in Brawl. And the fact that there was no good reason to change to Zelda in Melee other than recovery, lol.

 

[Ghirahilda]

Hey peole I remembered something:
Myamoto is making a brand new orinigal game.
No one knows what it its, but it's for sure that it will be a new franchise, whatever.
This can give a new chacacter possibilities or not?

 

[N3ON]

Hey peole I remembered something:
Myamoto is making a brand new orinigal game.
No one knows what it its, but it's for sure that it will be a new franchise, whatever.
This can give a new chacacter possibilities or not?

It could, but if Miyamoto's game is still in early development than I could see Sakurai not adding whoever the protagonist may be, as he's probably already decided on the roster. It's very possible that he knows about the new IP's main character, but even then he might not think it warrants inclusion yet. Contrary to belief, not all of Miyamoto's IPs instantly become playable.

If I had to guess, I'd speculate that whoever the character is would get a trophy (or maybe even AT) in SSB4, and if they continued to get games, would be included in SSB5, similar to how Olimar's Smash appearances went.

 

[Onyx Oblivian]

It could, but if Miyamoto's game is still in early development than I could see Sakurai not adding whoever the protagonist may be, as he's probably already decided on the roster. It's very possible that he knows about the new IP's main character, but even then he might not think it warrants inclusion yet. Contrary to belief, not all of Miyamoto's IPs instantly become playable.

If I had to guess, I'd speculate that whoever the character is would get a trophy (or maybe even AT) in SSB4, and if they continued to get games, would be included in SSB5, similar to how Olimar's Smash appearances went.

I've been Wondering when people were going to bring up Miyamoto's new IP haha

I'm really leaning to what N3ON is saying, and it does make sense.

But the problem with Olimar is that he didn't exist completely until way after the launch of Melee. Development could have started not too long after Melee's wrapped up. So there really isn't any scenarios to draw comparisons from that have occurred, this is a new and strange one. oops my bad. Lol

I think this time, there is a decent chance for this scenario: development will overlap with Miyamoto's New IP, Miyamoto or Sakaurai request for the character to be included, Character is used to promote new game similar to the "Roy" scenario in Melee.

I see maybe even a touch of "Sonic" situation. A last minute addition, but with the above steps too. Just last minute. Haha

OR I think he/she'd be even more likely if DLC characters are included too. Like "Free DLC download of "New IP's character with purchase of the game" promotion.

Who knows. The new IP character (which Nintendo is probably going to push a LOT, marketing wise) might just be that surprise character that catches everyone off guard.

EDIT: Crap. I thought Pikmin was released way after Melee. They were released the same year. x) there was even a trophy. Oops haha.

But I still stand by my thoughts Melee is a tricky one because there were SO many characters that deserved to take a slot before Olimar at the time. It could be a different scenario beause theres an extremely smaller pool of "necessary" characters. A lot of popular newcomers are for existing franchises. And being a new franchise could be helpful? Haha

 

[SmashChu]

The problem with all of this is we have no idea of the character or when the game will even come out. Heck, they announced Pikmin 3 at E3 2008.

 

[N3ON]

The problem with all of this is we have no idea of the character or when the game will even come out. Heck, they announced Pikmin 3 at E3 2008.

Yeah, this is true. I was focusing more along the lines of it hypothetically being developed at the same time as SSB4 and Sakurai being aware of it, I wasn't much focusing on its release because I don't believe the protagonist will become playable in SSB4 anymore anyway. Even if it isn't released by the time of SSB4, I could still see the IP getting a trophy or two (it will probably be at least revealed before SSB4 comes out), as the character will most likely eventually become important to Nintendo, as almost all of Miyamoto's are, and it would act as a minor way of promotion. Also, there's a chance it might end up like Nintendogs, in that it really doesn't lend itself to Smash playability.

I used to think the IP's protagonist might have a chance for Smash 4 if Miyamoto's game was shown at E3 2012, because then it would've at least been far enough into development to be shown, but now that it wasn't I suspect I overestimated how far along the development is. Sakurai may or may not know about it currently, but even if he does, I think that he will choose to let the game come out and establish itself before automatically adding the character just because it's one of Miyamoto's, so realistically the most I predict we'll get from this IP is a trophy or two.

 

[Aurane]

Transformations are time crunchers, plus it wastes a (B) move. I think separate characters are much better for balancing reasons. This goes to Zelda/Shiek, Samus/ZSamus, and Pokemon Trainer.

I mean, switching between characters is unique, but ruins true potential (See (B)v move being wasted).

 

[Big-Cat]

At least with Pokemon Trainer, they can turn that into a 3 Pokemon Tekken Tag team. The others though, definitely should be broken up.

 

[SmashChu]

Transformations are time crunchers, plus it wastes a (B) move. I think separate characters are much better for balancing reasons. This goes to Zelda/Shiek, Samus/ZSamus, and Pokemon Trainer.

I mean, switching between characters is unique, but ruins true potential (See (B)v move being wasted).

Except by having a transformation, the character has access to a whole other moveset.

As I pointed out, Sheik and Zelda is doing better than either one alone.

 

[FlappyFalco]

Transformations are time crunchers, plus it wastes a (B) move. I think separate characters are much better for balancing reasons. This goes to Zelda/Shiek, Samus/ZSamus, and Pokemon Trainer.

I mean, switching between characters is unique, but ruins true potential (See (B)v move being wasted).

But Samus to Zero Samus doesn't use B down,it's a Final Smash.And since everyone but me turns items off,Samus isn't always switch character.But they need to change Zero Samus's Final Smash,it barely does any damage.

Anyway,I was thinking they could do the Seven Koopalings(a switch character and another Mario rep).

 

[DarkShadow20]

They should move the transform button from B down to a taunt button. That's how some Brawl hacks work.

 

[Phaazoid]

PT is the only one that SHOULD be broken up. Zamus/samus can be accessed separately, as can zelda/shiek, but PT forces you to switch, which sucks. I just wanna play charizard dammit!

 

[~automatic]

Except by having a transformation, the character has access to a whole other moveset.

This.

As I pointed out, Sheik and Zelda is doing better than either one alone.

And this.

But Samus to Zero Samus doesn't use B down,it's a Final Smash.And since everyone but me turns items off,Samus isn't always switch character.

If you use your up taunt and press both up and down taunts a couple of times during the animation you can shed Samus' armor without using a Smash ball mid match. You can also hold either L or R during stage loading to start as ZSS if you selected Samus. However, there's no way to turn back to Power Suit Samus mid match w/o a Smash Ball.

 

[Big-Cat]

So the appealing thing with Zelda and Samus are that they can switch to other characters? What's so unique about them otherwise. THAT is what the developers should focus on. Transformations as they have been are gimmicky at best. If they were genuine stance characters, maybe things would be different.

 

[SmashChu]

So the appealing thing with Zelda and Samus are that they can switch to other characters? What's so unique about them otherwise. THAT is what the developers should focus on. Transformations as they have been are gimmicky at best. If they were genuine stance characters, maybe things would be different.

Wait, seriously? No no. You can't be. Your joking right. The ability to change into another character, entirely, is not unique enough for you? Next your going to tell me "So Ice Climbers are two characters. So what. No big deal. Not unique at all. Just boring."

Again, they can change into another freaking character. But I guess it would be alright if they were stance and just changed a few moves here or there. Yep. But becoming a whole another character. Not enough.

 

[Big-Cat]

Ok then. Tell me this then.

If the whole appeal of Zelda is that you can switch to Sheik, then why have Zelda in the first place? From a gameplay perspective, she almost seems irrelevant by that logic and adding her in is just a waste of resources. All other characters that don't have transformations have their appeal in their playstyles. And don't just say that people already know those characters because that's not true. You probably have way more people that play as Marth or Roy but have never played their games, let alone their series. You can also applies this to Ness and Lucas, especially as Europe never got a single MOTHER game.

So again, why do we so strongly define transforming into another character as the main appeal of the character? Following this, why play as Sheik?

 

[SmashChu]

Ok then. Tell me this then.

If the whole appeal of Zelda is that you can switch to Sheik, then why have Zelda in the first place? From a gameplay perspective, she almost seems irrelevant by that logic and adding her in is just a waste of resources. All other characters that don't have transformations have their appeal in their playstyles. And don't just say that people already know those characters because that's not true. You probably have way more people that play as Marth or Roy but have never played their games, let alone their series. You can also applies this to Ness and Lucas, especially as Europe never got a single MOTHER game.

So again, why do we so strongly define transforming into another character as the main appeal of the character? Following this, why play as Sheik?

Everything your saying make no sense.

Why play as Zelda? Because I like Zelda.
Why play as Sheik? Because I like Sheik.

The transformation just adds to that as I can switch characters when need be. I could see everyone one else has a lot of damage and use Zelda. I might want to be more aggressive so I use Sheik. As I posted before, using them together is giving better results than usiong them alone.

What makes this get more silly is this line.

All other characters that don't have transformations have their appeal in their playstyles.

Why can't Sheik or Zelda have appeal in their moveset? Because they transform, they some how lose this? Does Samus/ZSS lose this too? What are you even talking about. But then you mention bringing up that fewer people knew the FE guys and like them and I have no idea what that has to do with this discussion. I jhave a feeling your just arguing to the death at this point.

Here's the deal
1)Zelda's transformation makes her unique as she (as Sheik) get access to a whole other moveset
2)People play characters because they like them.

 

[~automatic]

Some people will be drawn to the 2 in 1 mechanic, others will like the moveset(s) and others will play her because they like the character in it's universe of origin.

I don't get why the last two wouldn't apply to Zelda.

 

[Deleted member]

A major issue that Transforming characters have in Brawl is due to the time it takes to actually transform.
This is not the fault of the characters themselves, but rather the Wii's somehow less than Gamecube quality processing. In Melee, you could switch from Zelda to Sheik on the fly.
If the Wii U were to fix that issue, I'm willing to bet that style fighting would be far more efficient than Zelda or Sheik alone could ever be; even moreso than it already is.

 

[Sword_kirby777]

I know that this isn't normally going to be relevant to gameplay for most Zelda players, but if there is a Sheik and a Zelda player playing at the same time, the loading time is drastically reduced, because the both characters are there already, but it's finicky at best because sometimes it doesn't matter. But, I guess what I'm trying to say is that because both characters have already been loaded, if the Zelda player transforms, it's almost instantaneous, same for the Sheik player. Otherwise, I think transforming characters aren't a bad thing, it adds more spice to the mix.

 

[~automatic]

A major issue that Transforming characters have in Brawl is due to the time it takes to actually transform.
This is not the fault of the characters themselves, but rather the Wii's somehow less than Gamecube quality processing. In Melee, you could switch from Zelda to Sheik on the fly.
If the Wii U were to fix that issue, I'm willing to bet that style fighting would be far more efficient than Zelda or Sheik alone could ever be; even moreso than it already is.

The first time I played as Sheik in Brawl I tried to transform in mid air to use Zelda's ^B and fell to my death since the transformation took for-****ing-ever, lmao.

 

[SmashChu]

A major issue that Transforming characters have in Brawl is due to the time it takes to actually transform.
This is not the fault of the characters themselves, but rather the Wii's somehow less than Gamecube quality processing. In Melee, you could switch from Zelda to Sheik on the fly.
If the Wii U were to fix that issue, I'm willing to bet that style fighting would be far more efficient than Zelda or Sheik alone could ever be; even moreso than it already is.

I can defiantly agree there. I'm not sure what the problem is. I have a hard drive, so I don't have this issue as much. It may be because Brawl is such a large game, that loading a new character is always a hassle. Of course, as the post below yours (which is at the end of my post too) suggest that it's because the character is not saved in the memory. Having the game load Sheik and Zelda when chosing either may work. Of course, there may be problems to this too.

I know that this isn't normally going to be relevant to gameplay for most Zelda players, but if there is a Sheik and a Zelda player playing at the same time, the loading time is drastically reduced, because the both characters are there already, but it's finicky at best because sometimes it doesn't matter. But, I guess what I'm trying to say is that because both characters have already been loaded, if the Zelda player transforms, it's almost instantaneous, same for the Sheik player. Otherwise, I think transforming characters aren't a bad thing, it adds more spice to the mix.

 

[Pachinkosam]

Any big news?

 

[SmashChu]

Any big news?

There is a Nintendo Direct tonight. Otherwise, nothing.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh shi-
When is it going to be? I'd love to see any news on what Nintendo has in store. Maybe we'll see more of Game & Wario?

EDIT: Also, what I want to know is, how did Melee handle the two in terms of files? Were they seperated like Brawl?
Main thing is, I just want to know what Melee did right with them that Brawl did wrong.

 

[Big-Cat]

I think what it was was that both Sheik and Zelda were always loaded when either one was chosen. As a result, the transformation was much quicker than in Brawl. In Brawl, the game loads the one you chose, but it does not automatically load the other. Various mods have made it where this kind of thing is the same speed as in Melee.

 

[Deleted member]

I think what it was was that Sheik and Zelda were always loaded. As a result, the transformation was much quicker than in Brawl. In Brawl, the game loads the one you chose, but it does not automatically load the other. Various mods have made it where this kind of thing is the same speed as in Melee.

Ah. So if SSB4 goes with the Melee method and loads both Zelda and Sheik together, there's already a great improvement like I previously thought.
On the downside, it would probably mean longer loading times for matches, but it's a small price to pay, IMO.

 

[Big-Cat]

If we have the ability to install our games to our consoles, then the loading time between matches wouldn't be much of an issue.

 

[Deleted member]

...I'm afraid I don't follow.
Do you mean like how the 3DS can download titles now for the system itself in substitution of a retail version? I don't quite understand.

 

[SmashChu]

Oh shi-
When is it going to be? I'd love to see any news on what Nintendo has in store. Maybe we'll see more of Game & Wario?

Looks like it might just be Wii and 3DS. Happens at 7am Eastern time.

I must say, by how Nintendo is acting, you wouldn't think they are launching a new system in a few months.

 

[Aurane]

Except by having a transformation, the character has access to a whole other moveset.

Yeah, but they both lose a (B)v move and have the scare of a free hit from the opponent when transforming (King Dedede's Smash attack, for example). Change-time takes a little while. At least shorten the time.

By the way, with the newest information of confirmed New Characters; is it true that Sakurai wishes to keep the number characters the same as brawl? He also said something about bringing old characters back. Mewtwo, Roy, and Young Link maybe? (I just want YLink back. Leave me be.) And if this is true, does this confirm cuts?

 

[Deleted member]

Smart players wouldn't leave themselves open for an attack when they transform. Just sayin'.

 

[Big-Cat]

...I'm afraid I don't follow.
Do you mean like how the 3DS can download titles now for the system itself in substitution of a retail version? I don't quite understand.

The game's data is put onto the hard drive, but you're required to run the disc when you play the game. It's supposed to reduce the need for need for disc spinning (and therefore less loading needed) and to keep the system cool. This is different than having the entire game on your console like downloadable games only slightly.

 

[Metal Overlord]

@Golden- By installing games to the consoles, Kuma means installing them onto the hard drive (or in the Wii U's case, an external USB device) used by the console

When you do that, usually it helps the game you installed run faster

EDIT: Oh **** nvm lol Kuma beat me to it

 

[Aurane]

Smart players wouldn't leave themselves open for an attack when they transform. Just sayin'.

No, they won't. They'll just make it easier for the attacker to prepare a charge move, such as Aura Sphere and Ike's (B) attack. If your move gives the opponent preparation time, then it's slow.

What I'm saying is that they should either split the characters, or minus the transformation/Switch time is all.

BTW, Golden, not everyone is a smart player. Just sayain.

 

[Deleted member]

The game's data is put onto the hard drive, but you're required to run the disc when you play the game. It's supposed to reduce the need for need for disc spinning (and therefore less loading needed) and to keep the system cool. This is different than having the entire game on your console like downloadable games only slightly.

Ah, I see now.

@asage: Which is why Melee's method of loading Zelda's and Sheik's data is superior and Smash 4 transformation characters would heavily benefit from it.