Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[FlareHabanero]

I think "passion" might be the wrong word. Try "tolerance" instead.

 

[Banjodorf]

I suppose. I was more referring to how Chrono seems to have a much stronger, more passionate vision of how he sees the FE games/universe working.

Tolerance is probably a better word to describe it overall though. I just don't sweat the small stuff like that, and instead tend to find things amusing, or just ignore them. For reference, and slightly unrelated, my least favorite character in the game is Yarne. I hope I don't have to say why. My favorites are Virion, Olivia, Inigo and Batman Gerome.

 

[Big-Cat]

I suppose. I was more referring to how Chrono seems to have a much stronger, more conservative vision of how he sees the FE games/universe working.

fixed for ya

 

[---]

Sorry if this took a sec to respond.

What ruined the plot structure was the fact that the whole game went off on a long tangent dealing with the conflict in Valm with Walhart. It diffused the focus of the game further when the game was already lacking the amount of detail put into previous installments. Overall it made the game seem sort of rushed and near end game battles/goals seeming slightly unfamiliar and out of the blue. The plot should have continued with Validar after Gangrel

They pretty much shoved a subplot with potential into the game. IMO in addition to what I previously said, FE14 could have been played out similar to FE2 (which considering it'd take from Gaiden anyway it should), in which you take control of two different armies and play from each of their own perspectives (given that said changes to FE13 would have fleshed Chrom's character our more) eventually uniting towards a common goal like, for example, defeating both Doma & Mila who have returned for revenge. Could have thrown a Lucina faction in there as well for even more perspective/plot twists.

I'm not completely sure what your talking about with MU rubbing out Chrom/Lucina. He/she may have taken some spotlight just like any other character would have but the story surrounding the character fit in with Chrom and lucina's just fine.

It's tough to explain but if you've played FE12 and compared it's MU & Marth in comparison to MU & Chrom/Lucina there are a major differences.

In FE12 MU mainly serves as a character who usually appears at the end of the major dialogues, thus not stealing the scene from Marth/other characters but also then lets said characters confine their thoughts to MU afterwards thus adding character development. FE12 My Unit is also a lot less scripted and you often get to make many different choices that effect the overall game (they're minor but they give you more control over My Unit).

In FE13 MU serves as the main plot devise for MU is Grima (the main villain), this results in the main focus/conflict being centered on MU rather than Chrom/Lucina (in FE12 MU's conflict with Katarina was saved for optional sub plot side chapters). Besides the fact that there are less options for MU in this game (FE12 had them in the majority of chapters, can't even choose a back-story or your own starting class in FE13), the overall weaker characters, and that they do even less than they did in FE12 also bring them down as a whole. Was there ever a time in the game in which Chrom made decisions for himself without asking MU for help?


As a side note, were there any real sub plots in FE13? FE1/3/11/12 had Minerva & her family, Camus & Nina, and My Unit & Katarina. FE2 had Alm/Cellica. FE7 had Lyn/Eliwood/Hector, Ninian/Nils, Nino/Jaffar & the Black Fang, and FE6 plot stuff. FE8 with Erika/Ephraim. FE9 with Ike & the Black Knight, the Herons & Laguz. FE10 with Micaiah/Elincia/Ike and more Black Knight.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Yeah, the lack of details in FE13 such as subplots was a major problem with FE13. A lot of reviews criticized FE10 for having an excessive amount of dialogue that took up so much time (which in all honesty it did). Maybe it was lack of development time or a shortened preproduction period but I had my suspicions that FE13 was trying to cut down on that based on feedback.

They at least could have dove further into Chrom's insane father.

 

[Banjodorf]

They at least could have dove further into Chrom's insane father.

I think that'd be a fascinating plot to expand upon in a sequel (prequel?) Hopefully Awakening's popularity is enough to warrant that. They've got some excellent material to use. I definitely agree the story is the part of Awakening I enjoyed the least, whereas it was my favorite element of FE9. Hey, you win some.

 

[ChronoBound]

fixed for ya

Its not conservative to not want nearly naked pre-pubescent girls running around and talking about "bouncy bits". More like, having your head screwed on straight.

 

[Deleted member]

She may look pre-pubescent, but she's not really.
It'd be the same thing if Viridi made such comments, really.

 

[~automatic]

Yeah, Nowi is just a (spoiler details about the character's age and species/race) who finds the signs of human reproductive maturity amusing.

 

[Big-Cat]

Spoiler

I honestly thought Nowi was either a really flat teenager or some sort of slave when I first saw her.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Eh, I like Nowi. She doesn't look like a kid to me, despite being flat

 

[---]

They at least could have dove further into Chrom's insane father.

Forgot about that, man that would have been a great sub plot and way to build off Garngrel & Emmeryn stuff.

I think the main sub plot was Lucina's future, but it's too bad it was regulated to DLC.

 

[ChronoBound]

She may look pre-pubescent, but she's not really.
It'd be the same thing if Viridi made such comments, really.

She was obviously designed to cater to loli perverts.

Saying "oh well she is just 1000 years old, so its no biggie if i find her sexually attractive" is a dumb copout. Secondly, Sakurai has gone on the record that Viridi has the body of a 8-year-old.

 

[Deleted member]

Having the body of an 8-year-old, and still is attractive to people.
I really don't see your point with this. If the likes of Nowi and Viridi were as old as they look, then it would be a moral issue. So what, in order to be acceptable, they have to pull a SHAZAM! and have an "older" appearance?

Speaking of Shazam/Captain Marvel, is it wrong for girls (or homosexual guys) to be attracted to him since he's really a kid but with an adult superhero body by the shout of a magic word?

 

[ChronoBound]

Having the body of an 8-year-old, and still is attractive to people.

Those "people" are pedophiles. They are scum.

 

[Big-Cat]

Having the body of an 8-year-old, and still is attractive to people.
I really don't see your point with this. If the likes of Nowi and Viridi were as old as they look, then it would be a moral issue. So what, in order to be acceptable, they have to pull a SHAZAM! and have an "older" appearance?

Speaking of Shazam/Captain Marvel, is it wrong for girls (or homosexual guys) to be attracted to him since he's really a kid but with an adult superhero body by the shout of a magic word?

I'm... I'm not really sure. It's weird because it's one thing to be attracted to the Shazam alter ego and another to be attracted to the kid.

 

[Banjodorf]

She was obviously designed to cater to loli perverts.

Hey now. I'm not into Loli myself, but that seems a bit harsh. It's a legitimate interest in itself, and the people who enjoy it aren't harming anyone. (Typically, but that applies to everything.) I think this conversation may be getting out of hand though, I see some tensions rising.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I'm... I'm not really sure. It's weird because it's one thing to be attracted to the Shazam alter ego and another to be attracted to the kid.

But he's still a kid, just with the physical appearance and intelligence of an older man.

Does that mean it's ok to be attracted to kids if their bodies look more mature/ have a more mature personality?

 

[Deleted member]

Those "people" are pedophiles. They are scum.

Implying that everyone who is attracted to a character that happens to have a child-like appearance is a pedophile.
Making harsh generalizations is also being scum.

And I'm willing to bet it's a double standard. Are girls attracted to the "shota" archtype pedophiles as well? So any girl who is attracted to Pit, Ness, Lucas, Pokémon Trainer Red, Sora, etc. is scum.

 

[ChronoBound]

I
Making harsh generalizations is also being scum.

If you find Viridi sexually attractive, yeah you do need help, sorry.

 

[Deleted member]

If you find Viridi sexually attractive, yeah you do need help, sorry.

And the girls that find Pit sexually attractive? Do they need help? (Loving how you're only focusing on one part while ignoring the rest.)
Also, you seem to love generalizations. I don't recall ever saying I was attracted to Viridi.

 

[Big-Cat]

But he's still a kid, just with the physical appearance and intelligence of an older man.

Does that mean it's ok to be attracted to kids if their bodies look more mature/ have a more mature personality?

Instinctively, we'd be more inclined to say yes to that. However, this kind of thing is exactly known in nature so it creates a bizarre confusion for anyone. Am I attracted because it LOOKS like an adult, or should I stay away because it's actually a child?

 

[N3ON]

Even if characters like Nowi and Viridi are much older than they look, being attracted to them physically is still being attracted to a child appearance. Just because they aren't technically children doesn't mean it's not catering to the loli crowd, as it would stand to reason that the people attracted to their appearance would also be attracted to others similar to them, who are legitimate children. Visual attraction-wise, it doesn't matter how old you are, it's how old you look. It's the opposite with Shazam, if you were attracted to the appearance of the adult version, that would be... more normal, even if he is in fact a kid. Just being attracted to the child version is where you'll run into trouble.

@Psycho
It'd be understandable if someone was visually attracted to a kid if they had the appearance of an adult, but doing anything more than that brings up a whole bunch of ethics and morality debates.

@Golden
It's still being attracted to the appearance of a child. Technically it wouldn't be pedophilia, but like I said, if someone is attracted to Nowi or Viridi, chances are they would also be attracted to a character visually similar to them that is a child.

And yes, if a grown woman is attracted to a young boy that would also be pedophilia.

 

[FalKoopa]

*checks thread*
*sees discussion*
*cringes*

 

[Deleted member]

The argument implies that people would only like the two for their looks.

I'm talking that there are people out there (well, I assume mainly for Viridi; Nowi I can't really say...unless people are really that into crass girls that "get around") that are attracted more to their personality and who they are rather than what they look like. As if they overlook their child-like stature.

But apparently, those people don't exist; they are just pedophile scum.

 

[Big-Cat]

It's still being attracted to the appearance of a child. Technically it wouldn't be pedophilia, but like I said, if someone is attracted to Nowi or Viridi, chances are they would also be attracted to a character visually similar to them that is a child.

It depends on the demeanor of the child too. Nowi and Viridi remind me of teenagers - albeit flat - not children which would be 12 and under when it comes to their appearance. I have neighbors that have an age range of 9-13, none of which remind me of Viridi or Nowi. Nowi is hard to pin down maturity wise because she's so carefree which greatly affects the perception of age. Viridi kind of reminds me of an eco teen or liberal college student. You're likely not going to see actual kids in fiction that carry themselves in a way like Viridi.

 

[ChronoBound]

And the girls that find Pit sexually attractive? Do they need help? (Loving how you're only focusing on one part while ignoring the rest.)
Also, you seem to love generalizations. I don't recall ever saying I was attracted to Viridi.

Pedophilia is much, much less common in women than it is men.

For the very few women out there that find pre-pubsecent boys sexually attractive are just as disturbed as the men who are aroused by pre-pubescent girls.

Secondly, I was not saying you were attracted to Viridi.

 

[N3ON]

The argument implies that people would only like the two for their looks.

I'm talking that there are people out there (well, I assume mainly for Viridi; Nowi I can't really say...unless people are really that into crass girls that "get around") that are attracted more to their personality and who they are rather than what they look like. As if they overlook their child-like stature.

But apparently, those people don't exist; they are just pedophile scum.

It depends on the demeanor of the child too. Nowi and Viridi remind me of teenagers - albeit flat - not children which would be 12 and under when it comes to their appearance. I have neighbors that have an age range of 9-13, none of which remind me of Viridi or Nowi. Nowi is hard to pin down maturity wise because she's so carefree which greatly affects the perception of age. Viridi kind of reminds me of an eco teen or liberal college student. You're likely not going to see actual kids in fiction that carry themselves in a way like Viridi.

I used the terms visually and appearance repeatedly because I was referring solely to their looks. I know there are other aspects, I just didn't touch on them, because we weren't talking about them. Yeah, they can be attracted to their personality... but that isn't often the case for fictional gaming characters. Sure, you can like or be attracted to a fictional character's personality, but the vast majority of the time being attracted to them is based on their appearance. Plus usually most people, even if they like or are attracted to the personality of someone, stop being attracted to them when they have the body of an 8-year-old.

 

[Oasis_S]

That was a great discussion on sexual attraction to children, I'm sure everyone is very proud of themselves.

 

[Deleted member]

@Chrono
Now that we covered that it isn't a double standard and that you weren't pinpointing me, all that remains is the issue at hand.
The fact you're essentially calling quite a few of my friends (including female friends) scum pedophiles because they happen to really like at least one fictional character that happens to have an underaged appearance. (Or in some rare cases, they are underaged, such as May from Pokémon being attractive to a few of them.)
That's frigging offensive.

 

[ChronoBound]

The fact you're essentially calling quite a few of my friends (including female friends) scum pedophiles because they happen to really like at least one fictional character that happens to have an underaged appearance. (Or in some rare cases, they are underaged, such as May from Pokémon being attractive to a few of them.)
That's frigging offensive.

If they are sexually attracted to them or want to do sexual acts with them then they should really seek help, or you should seek an intervention for them if you truly are their friend.

 

[Big-Cat]

I used the terms visually and appearance repeatedly because I was referring solely to their looks. I know there are other aspects, I just didn't touch on them, because we weren't talking about them. Yeah, they can be attracted to their personality... but that isn't often the case for fictional gaming characters. Sure, you can like or be attracted to a fictional character's personality, but the vast majority of the time being attracted to them is based on their appearance. Plus usually most people, even if they like or are attracted to the personality of someone, stop being attracted to them when they have the body of an 8-year-old.

And you're right, but I was also going from a demeanor angle when it comes to age and how that can affect being attracted to a young looking character for their personality (and not sexually) because their personality is very mature. I had a residential adviser in my first year of college and she only graduated recently, and my friends and I thought she was older than we thought she was because of how she carried herself.

 

[Deleted member]

I know there are other aspects, I just didn't touch on them, because we weren't talking about them.

I was.

If they are sexually attracted to them or want to do sexual acts with them then they should really seek help, or you should seek an intervention for them if you truly are their friend.

Your are ****ing messed up, you know that? The only one here that needs to seek help is you, you inconsiderate *******.

 

[Oasis_S]

For goodness sake Golden, if your friends find these characters attractive BECAUSE THEY LOOK LIKE CHILDREN and they want to rub their wieners and clitorises all over them BECAUSE THEY LOOK LIKE CHILDREN, then that's gross and that's the extent of what everyone is saying. If that's NOT THE CASE then you can relax.

Don't be dense.

 

[Banjodorf]

So how bout those Fantastic Bash Companions games on the 3DS and Wii U? I hear they're all the rage these days with the...well now I hesitate to bring up children at all.

So those new games! Y'know, the ones we don't know about yet? We should discuss them!

 

[ChronoBound]

For goodness sake Golden, if your friends find these characters attractive BECAUSE THEY LOOK LIKE CHILDREN and they want to rub their wieners and ***** all over them BECAUSE THEY LOOK LIKE CHILDREN, then that's gross and that's the extent of what everyone is saying. If that's NOT THE CASE then you can relax.

Don't be dense.

Well that's one way of putting it.

Seriously, I don't know why this was even an argument.

 

[Deleted member]

For goodness sake Golden, if your friends find these characters attractive BECAUSE THEY LOOK LIKE CHILDREN and they want to rub their wieners and clitorises all over them BECAUSE THEY LOOK LIKE CHILDREN, then that's gross and that's the extent of what everyone is saying. If that's NOT THE CASE then you can relax.

Don't be dense.

That's not the case, though. They just find those particular characters attractive for various reasons; none of which being because "they look like children".
Nor do they go to those extremes.

There's a difference between attraction and obsession that you and Chrono don't seem to get.

 

[ChronoBound]

Your are ****ing messed up, you know that? The only one here that needs to seek help is you, you inconsiderate *******.

I don't give a damn I hurt the feelings of people who are sexually attracted to those characters. They should feel bad about it. Hopefully, the shame makes them re-evaluate what they are thinking and doing.

Your response is incredibly immature.

 

[Big-Cat]

So how bout those Fantastic Bash Companions games on the 3DS and Wii U? I hear they're all the rage these days with the...well now I hesitate to bring up children at all.

So those new games! Y'know, the ones we don't know about yet? We should discuss them!

Ok, this topic got lost with this crazy discussion.

Do you feel that the decision to use tilts and Smashes for different attacks strengths is a good idea, especially for beginning players? For me, when I played Brawl for a little bit a while back, it was very difficult for me to do tilts, but I could pull of Smash attacks consistently. Likewise, I could never do UTilts in Melee because I'd always jump. This is one reason why I think going for one or two more attack buttons might not be such a bad idea for accessibility (look at Marvel).

We could also use this to discuss the ease of walking and running with an analog stick.

 

[Banjodorf]

Up-tilts are always a really odd beast. I was really glad when they added "Tap Jump Off" so I could actually tilt without risking a jump. (I got used to doing it in Melee, but it's still nice to not worry about it.) I've been trying to think of ways they could better incorporate tilts, but anything I can come up with involves sacrificing one of my jump buttons.