Super Mario Bros. Characters Discussion.

[Oasis_S]

Oh wow... That box art is a funny coincidence. Maybe my Paper Toad with a paintbrush idea wasn't so farfetched after all.

 

[BKupa666]

I can respond more fully to the Toad essay at a later date, but it makes no sense to bash Bowser Jr's moveset potential while praising Toad's. If he were made into a small Bowser (a possibility that helps his inclusion, rather than hurting it), his attacks would likely be fast but strong...just like beloved Toad. In fact, how the bloody heck do you consider 'small but strong' and 'jumping high' unique traits worth adding to Smash? Should've just stuck with defending his use of powerups, which have to be shoehorned in anyways. Really, does Toad put on a raccoon suit or throw ice because it's fitting for him to do so, or because they're powerups that exist in a game where he was included over more beloved characters to the dismay of fans, just for forced uniqueness?

The stupidity of the generic argument can't be stressed enough, of course.

 

[Deleted member]

Don't bother, BKupa.
You're talking to someone who claims that Knuckles having spikes on his fists will contribute to being completely different from Sonic, yet claims that Shadow has no differences from Sonic whatsoever.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I can respond more fully to the Toad essay at a later date, but it makes no sense to bash Bowser Jr's moveset potential while praising Toad's. If he were made into a small Bowser (a possibility that helps his inclusion, rather than hurting it), his attacks would likely be fast but strong...just like beloved Toad.

Referring to this?: "I can't even fathom how Bowser Jr. supporters can use this argument against Toad when Bowser Jr. is basically a mini Bowser."

I deleted it. That essay was typed up right after an intense debate where some argued that Bowser Jr. was "more deserving" than Toad, so it was kind of a heat of the moment thing. Of course, Bowser Jr. does have moveset potential, just about as much as Toad does (you really can't debate it, it's too close). I never meant it to sound like Bowser Jr. doesn't have potential... I was only addressing the fact that Bowser Jr. supporters would bash Toad's potential, which is equal with Junior's.

In fact, how the bloody heck do you consider 'small but strong' and 'jumping high' unique traits worth adding to Smash?

People don't seem to understand the importance of an individual character's play style. A character's play style is what separates characters like Falco from Fox, characters like Marth from Roy, characters like Captain Falcon from Ganondorf, and characters like Link from Toon Link. They may be clones/semi-clones, BUT their differing play styles is what makes them unique.

Toad might have an arsenal of his own special and standard moves, but those are just a bonus to his individual play style. For example, he'd probably be a VERY small, VERY light character, and at the same time be quite fast. Perhaps he could possess almost superhuman strength, but at the cost of slow and delayed attacks. Now, think of a character the size of maybe Kirby, but with the strength of Donkey Kong. Add the slow attack speed but quick manuevering speed of Captain Falcon, and then throw in the weight of a character like Jigglypuff or Pichu. How many other characters on the roster have those same qualities? Even if there were a couple, Toad's moveset keeps him in unique territory. I'd imagine Bowser JR. being similar to this, but maybe slightly stronger, slower, and heavier. This is just an example by the way.

Hope I cleared things up a bit.

Don't bother, BKupa.
You're talking to someone who claims that Knuckles having spikes on his fists will contribute to being completely different from Sonic, yet claims that Shadow has no differences from Sonic whatsoever.

Read the paragraph above. Play style. At least Knuckles ain't just a black Sonic. Regardless, the fact that you're still worked up over that is slightly entertaining.

(Also, you do realize what the topic of this thread is, don't you?)

 

[Deleted member]

You're right; He's a red Sonic.
Also, mentioning it does not mean I'm worked up; I'm merely giving BKupa a warning that he's going to argue logic with someone who rejects logic and substitutes his own. Like any good acquaintance would.

And don't get smart with me, I'm well aware that this is a Mario character thread. Again, I'm merely warning BKupa of what is to come by using an example.

@BKupa: Oh, and another reason you shouldn't try to argue with him; he will repeat the same points over and over again, and not listen to what you have to say. You'd be wasting your time.

 

[Onyx Oblivian]

I think we can establish that both Toad and Bowser Jr. are viable options for a 5th Mario Rep. AS WELL AS Paper Mario.

No one here is talking down Bowser Jr.'s chances/Moveset potential. And any suspicion of that is just misunderstanding.

So can we just hit the restart button? haha

Starting from scratch:

Toad, Bowser Jr, and Paper Mario are the top candidates for that slot.

Now let's make competitive potential movesets.

/mediation.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Also, mentioning it does not mean I'm worked up;

Yeah, whatever you say.

I'm merely giving BKupa a warning that he's going to argue logic with someone who rejects logic and substitutes his own. Like any good acquaintance would.

You do realize I've been a member here (as well as a frequenter of the SSB4 Discussion threads/forums) longer than you, right? Haha it's not like no one knows me just because you've only met me a day or so ago...

@BKupa: Oh, and another reason you shouldn't try to argue with him; he will repeat the same points over and over again, and not listen to what you have to say. You'd be wasting your time.

Looks like someone forgot how to read. I'll post it again, maybe that'll make it easier for you:

"Referring to this?: "I can't even fathom how Bowser Jr. supporters can use this argument against Toad when Bowser Jr. is basically a mini Bowser."

I deleted it. That essay was typed up right after an intense debate where some argued that Bowser Jr. was "more deserving" than Toad, so it was kind of a heat of the moment thing. Of course, Bowser Jr. does have moveset potential, just about as much as Toad does (you really can't debate it, it's too close). I never meant it to sound like Bowser Jr. doesn't have potential... I was only addressing the fact that Bowser Jr. supporters would bash Toad's potential, which is equal with Junior's."

--Me, literally a couple posts ago.

 

[Jhonnykiller45]

I'm just glad there's no Paper Waluigi on there.

Inb4 Paper Waluigi and Wario are in this game as side villains much like Jr. Troopa was in the first Paper Mario

Spoiler

actually, this wouldn't be a bad idea, considering how we already have a Baby Wario, so adding a Paper Wario/Waluigi wouldn't be too wrong, I suppose

 

[Onyx Oblivian]

Guys.

Let's establish:

1. Spyder did not logically mean to belittle Juniors chanes. That was a heated addition that has since even removed.

2. A Knuckles vs. Shadow debate is sarting to form into this thread. I don't think this will be solved in this thread soon haha

3. There's tension. Let's all take a deep breath

4. Back to the points I made in my last post.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

So can we just hit the restart button? haha

Already tried, man. This guy's just getting a little worked up over a silly comment he read on the interwebz.

Toad, Bowser Jr, and Paper Mario are the top candidates for that slot.

Now let's make competitive potential movesets.

Sorry about all that. Didn't mean for any of it. This is a MARIO thread, guys, not a Sonic thread.

*hits restart button*

Anyway, not gonna argue your points there! I've never actually made a real moveset for Toad myself. I've tried making one for Bowser JR., but it's based off of his paintbrush and Shadow Mario, which not many people appreciate. Plus, I made it a LOOONG time ago. I'm not too familar with the three latest Paper Mario games. I've only played the first. I'd be no good there.

I would like to see a good moveset for Toad, however, and a good one for Junior with minimal use of his brush.

 

[Onyx Oblivian]

*hits restart button*

Anyway, not gonna argue your points there! I've never actually made a real moveset for Toad myself. I've tried making one for Bowser JR., but it's based off of his paintbrush and Shadow Mario, which not many people appreciate. Plus, I made it a LOOONG time ago. I'm not too familar with the three latest Paper Mario games. I've only played the first. I'd be no good there.

I would like to see a good moveset for Toad, however, and a good one for Junior with minimal use of his brush.

Yes.

Toad would need a really worthy Moveset in order to be taken more seriously by non-supporters the potential is there, now he needs evidence.

It also seems that Bowser Jr./Shadow Mario combo, although suggested occasionally, is not very popular or makes a lot of sense considering it was froma single game, due to his bib.

I have a personal bias that any Moveset for Paper Mario should come solely from Thousand Year door

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Yes.

Toad would need a really worthy Moveset in order to be taken more seriously by non-supporters the potential is there, now he needs evidence.

I always considered an obvious Up B move to be that "Chargeable Super Jump" from Super Mario Bros. 2. I guess it would work similarly to Diddy Kong's rocket-barrels, but with less aim and more straight-up horizontal recovery.

Then there is picking things up and throwing them, seen in several of his playable appearances... Side B?

It also seems that Bowser Jr./Shadow Mario combo, although suggested occasionally, is not very popular or makes a lot of sense considering it was froma single game, due to his bib.

True, but it was his biggest and most familiar role. I still like the idea, no matter how old.

I have a personal bias that any Moveset for Paper Mario should come solely from Thousand Year door

To me, any moveset should be from the first game! But I haven't played the others, so I don't know what else he has to work with.

 

[Deleted member]

@Spydr_Enzo: There's always the move set on the Toad's thread on here that you can check out. I remember quite liking Berserker's move set. SmashChu also made a special-only move set based around items, but you'll have to get SmashChu to dig it up.

Also want to say this; I hope people aren't under the assumption that Bowser Jr. appearance in Sticker Star helps his chances. Any opportunities for a game to help boost a character's importance/popularity/potentials closed when Sakurai announced that he was working on move sets.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

@Spydr_Enzo: There's always the move set on the Toad's thread on here that you can check out. I remember quite liking Berserker's move set. SmashChu also made a special-only move set based around items, but you'll have to get SmashChu to dig it up.

Thanks! Of course, if anyone was going to make a great full moveset for Toad, it would be Berserker. I'll try to find it!

Also want to say this; I hope people aren't under the assumption that Bowser Jr. appearance in Sticker Star helps his chances. Any opportunities for a game to help boost a character's importance/popularity/potentials closed when Sakurai announced that he was working on move sets.

I don't know if that is necessarily true in this case. Sakurai is most likely at the stage of development right now where he is actually figuring out the roster, this is true, but it's not like he doesn't know about Bowser Jr.'s appearance in Paper Mario. He probably has access to a lot of this information (even we do), and that can still play a part in his decisions.

A character's appearance in a random game is only meaningless if said game was announced after the roster is complete.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't really see the problem in Jr. having the paintbrush primarily. It's not like it was a one game thing; he uses a paintbrush as well as paint itself in various spin-offs since his debut.
If he were to use it as a weapon not unlike Link does for his sword, that would be perfectly acceptable.

As for Specials, it is possible to give him more than just paintbrush attacks, and completely leave out Shadow Mario, who is unecessary as long as Jr. has the Paintbrush.

B: Jr. Fireball-Like in NSMBW, Jr. will spit out a slow moving fire ball that bursts in contact similar to Ness' PK Fire. Unlike PK Fire, it will burst only if it makes contact with opponents or walls.
Side B: Sonic Scream-Taken from Mario Strikers Charged, Jr. will scream at the top of his lungs and send out soundwaves in front of him (if you have played Godzilla Destroy All Monsters Melee, this is very comparable to Anguirus's Sonic Roar) as long as the player holds the B Button until Jr. stops in order to take a breath. Unlike the original version, these soundwaves do not shrink opponents.
Up B: Jr. Clown Car-The Clown Car magically forms around Jr., which gives him temporary free flight. He can be hit out of it, though.
Down B: Paint Trap-Jr. tosses a blob of paint in a forward arc, leaving a splotch on the ground. The paint causes increased traction (as if walking on ice, however, Ice Climbers are not immune) and increased chances tripping to opponents that step on it.
Final Smash: Mecha Bowser-Showing off his skills in mechanics, his idoling of his father, and his debut into the series, he pilots the Mecha Bowser and stomps through the stage, also being able to shoot of streams of fire and Bullet Bills.

And while I'm at it, I might as well make one for Toad for the Hell of it.

B: Mushroom Hammer: Toad pulls out a Mushroom Hammer from the Mario Kart Arcade GP games, pulls back, and crashes it down in front of him.
Side B: Mushroom Bumper-Toad fires spores in front of him which spawns a large mushroom (think Mario Sports Mix). The mushroom makes opponents bounce off when touched and can block projectiles.
Up B: Power Squat Jump-A technique from SMB2 that is not used by either Mario, Luigi, or Peach in Smash thus far. Toad squats, then after a second, he flashes. Letting go of the B Button when he flashes makes him leap up high into the air. This is to make up for his poor jumping skills. As he is leaping, he can hurt people if he crashes into them with his large head.
Down B: Bomb Pluck-Being the plucky guy he is (bad pun), Toad quickly plucks a bomb from the ground. These bombs work different from other characters that use them (Link, Toon Link, etc.), as they are bigger and only detonate after a set amount of time, even when thrown. They are also held over Toad's head, so all he can do is move, jump, and throw the bomb. They come in different colors (Red, Light Blue, Dark Blue Green, Yellow, Pink, and White), and have different amounts of damage, knockback, blast radius, and detonation time depending on the color.
Final Smash: Blue Shell-Should be self-explanatory. The bane of Mario Kart fans' existances; Toad pulls one out and throws it in the air. It flies around the stage a bit, then hovers above the opponent who is in the lead (or in 2nd if Toad is winning), and crashes down on them in an unavoidable attack. This causes a massive explosion that hits the opponent and anyone unfortunate to be near that opponent when it strikes.....even Toad.

.....this Toad Specials list is not my best work. But hey, that's what happens when you try to not make him just randomly spawn Mario items or use random power-ups.
The Bomb Pluck move is inspiried by Wario's Woods, for those that don't get it.

 

[Opossum]

One thing that could be used to defend Toad's use of items is the fact that in many 2D Mario sidescrollers, Toad was in charge of the Item Houses. I think that sort of shows his special connection to them.


By the way, I liked the movesets, Golden. The only one I'm not familiar with is the Mushroom Hammer (haven't played GP).

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

all potential mario newcomers are generic and dumb. the only acceptable ones are Geno and maybe Bowser Jr. if designed correctly. anyone who wants toad is confirmed to be an idiot by science.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

all potential mario newcomers are generic and dumb. the only acceptable ones are Geno and maybe Bowser Jr. if designed correctly. anyone who wants toad is confirmed to be an idiot by science.

I'll admit, I don't want to see Toad become the new Mario rep. Heck, I don't really want any new Mario characters. But to call people idiots because they want a character you don't without backing up why you think that makes you look like an idiot.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

whatever nerd. I'm 20 years old. My days arguing character rosters on internet forums are long gone. best reasoning im giving is generic and dumb. deal with it. you supporting "bandana dee" in this game tells me all i need to know about you

 

[xpnc]

WEH WEH WEH WEH WEH WEH WEH WEH WEH WEH WEH WEH WEH WEH WEH WEH WEH WEH WEH

 

[Ember Reaper]

Being on a smashforum signifies you yourself are a nerd. (And can be considered flaming I suppose)
None of the possible mario characters are truly generic. All are unique in some fashion. Bowser Jr. for his paintbrush and the second most important mario villain(arguable with Fawful). Toad for being very recognizable and shown to do all sorts of different things, albeit being a normal villager. Paper Mario for being a major spin off character with huge potential and so much that could be added from his respective games. Geno for starting the star mythology and being a star being in a puppet body. Practically being a tank in the process. And waluigi for having arguably the worst back story ever, and to be the fourth in the mario bros .... square? yeah square.

 

[xpnc]

Being on a smashforum signifies you yourself are a nerd. (And can be considered flaming I suppose)
None of the possible mario characters are truly generic. All are unique in some fashion. Bowser Jr. for his paintbrush and the second most important mario villain(arguable with Fawful). Toad for being very recognizable and shown to do all sorts of different things, albeit being a normal villager. Paper Mario for being a major spin off character with huge potential and so much that could be added from his respective games. Geno for starting the star mythology and being a star being in a puppet body. Practically being a tank in the process. And waluigi for having arguably the worst back story ever, and to be the fourth in the mario bros .... square? yeah square.

WEH


WEH WEH WEH


WEH WEH



WEEEEHHHHHHHH

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Being on a smashforum signifies you yourself are a nerd. (And can be considered flaming I suppose)
None of the possible mario characters are truly generic. All are unique in some fashion. Bowser Jr. for his paintbrush and the second most important mario villain(arguable with Fawful). Toad for being very recognizable and shown to do all sorts of different things, albeit being a normal villager. Paper Mario for being a major spin off character with huge potential and so much that could be added from his respective games. Geno for starting the star mythology and being a star being in a puppet body. Practically being a tank in the process. And waluigi for having arguably the worst back story ever, and to be the fourth in the mario bros .... square? yeah square.

read my post nerd. i said bowser jr. would be decent. toad is recognizable so hes not generic? a ****ing goomba is also recognizable. does that make it not generic?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Waluigi

He wasn't talking to you.

And besides, Waluigi goes "wa."

 

[xpnc]

He wasn't talking to you.

And besides, Waluigi goes "wa."

weh

 

[Ember Reaper]

read my post nerd. i said bowser jr. would be decent. toad is recognizable so hes not generic? a ****ing goomba is also recognizable. does that make it not generic?

You're using that word again.
Goombas are the generic enemies of the series. But they are unique to that series. When it's the mario all stars we are talking about Toad, being playable in teh second game, almost all spin offs, and the last one in mario 64 not playable, he's got quite a lot going for him and a lot to pull from, moveset wise. Much more than Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, Waluigi, and Geno have to pull from. Easily, a unique moveset could be made

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

You're using that word again.
Goombas are the generic enemies of the series. But they are unique to that series. When it's the mario all stars we are talking about Toad, being playable in teh second game, almost all spin offs, and the last one in mario 64 not playable, he's got quite a lot going for him and a lot to pull from, moveset wise. Much more than Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, Waluigi, and Geno have to pull from. Easily, a unique moveset could be made

WAH WAH nerd

 

[Deleted member]

whatever nerd. I'm 20 years old. My days arguing character rosters on internet forums are long gone. best reasoning im giving is generic and dumb. deal with it. you supporting "bandana dee" in this game tells me all i need to know about you

You're 20 years old and can't even type properly?
And you're calling someone on a Smash Bros. fourm that you have an account on a nerd because he calls you out for insulting those with a differing opinion?

......If this is the capability of my generation, then the world is ****ed.

 

[Ember Reaper]

WAH WAH nerd

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

because typing with capital letters on a gaming forum filled with 14 year old *** burgers kids makes one credible

 

[jigglover]

You're 20 years old and can't even type properly?
And you're calling someone on a Smash Bros. fourm that you have an account on a nerd because he calls you out for insulting those with a differing opinion?

......If this is the capability of my generation, then the world is ****ed.

Wow, I bet his reply is: whatever nerd.

 

[Deleted member]

because typing with capital letters on a gaming forum filled with 14 year old *** burgers kids makes one credible

Now now, that's no way to talk about your mother.

 

[jigglover]

because typing with capital letters on a gaming forum filled with 14 year old *** burgers kids makes one credible

 

[Ember Reaper]

I think age can't be judged if theyre on a forum. If they're on a forum it means they enjoy whatever the forum is about. Regardless of age, everyone here enjoys smash!!

 

[jigglover]

I think age can't be judged if theyre on a forum. If they're on a forum it means they enjoy whatever the forum is about. Regardless of age, everyone here enjoys smash!!

A raging battle is fought, the golden hero takes on the 20-year-old child-hater, good and evil reach the climax of their war, until the embers of neutrality scorch the field between them. The few spectators stand aghast at the sight, the golden warrior gets told how to defeat the child-hater, but evil does also, and each, confident that they know how to finish the fight, go in with their flails flared.
The embers of neutrality didn't want his plan to back-fire as it was, so he just decided to simmer the battle-field until it is merely a pile of ash. But, in the midst of the clanging of armour, he deigned to see what direction the 20-year old was heading, a swift slash of his sword sent neutrality's head onto the ground, though, the thing that evil didn't consider, would be that the blazes would spread even after death, until either good or evil prevailed.
Another half-hour of swinging and slashing and clanging and clanking took forth, until the warrior, golden as the blitz around him, plunges his mace through his heart.

Basically I was just saying that Golden is going to win this fight no matter what, and thought that I would make it interesting for you...
... Besides, I'm bored!

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

A raging battle is fought, the golden hero takes on the 20-year-old child-hater, good and evil reach the climax of their war, until the embers of neutrality scorch the field between them. The few spectators stand aghast at the sight, the golden warrior gets told how to defeat the child-hater, but evil does also, and each, confident that they know how to finish the fight, go in with their flails flared.
The embers of neutrality didn't want his plan to back-fire as it was, so he just decided to simmer the battle-field until it is merely a pile of ash. But, in the midst of the clanging of armour, he deigned to see what direction the 20-year old was heading, a swift slash of his sword sent neutrality's head onto the ground, though, the thing that evil didn't consider, would be that the blazes would spread even after death, until either good or evil prevailed.
Another half-hour of swinging and slashing and clanging and clanking took forth, until the warrior, golden as the blitz around him, plunges his mace through his heart.

Basically I was just saying that Golden is going to win this fight no matter what, and thought that I would make it interesting for you...
... Besides, I'm bored!

you taking the time to type all of that mean that you are truly the one who lost

 

[Deleted member]

Except he's not the one arguing.

Not only can you not type properly, it seems you have no reading comprehension as well.
I really fear for today's generation.....

 

[jigglover]

you taking the time to type all of that mean that you are truly the one who lost

... Your logic is astounding.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

no one's arguing unless you consider me calling you nerds arguing

 

[Ember Reaper]

Jigglover, you are a champion among men. That is an epic for the ages.