Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Nazyrus]

I can’t believe i’m saying this, but if Spring Man ends up being part of the Arms character somehow, which I think is possible if they pull a Hero-type deal, Isaac may be right back on the table and maybe even with a significant chance with the prospect of being a “shill pick” for a new Golden sun remake announcement.

I am rooting for you guys, hard. That’d be the best shill pick ever.

That's precisely what I'm personally expecting. The leaker of the indie world and mini direct said nintendo would be focusing in bringing old games like never before this year, and we have this trademark finally approved it's like… this puzzle is almost complete in my eyes now.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I can’t believe i’m saying this, but if Spring Man ends up being part of the Arms character somehow, which I think is possible if they pull a Hero-type deal, Isaac may be right back on the table and maybe even with a significant chance with the prospect of being a “shill pick” for a new Golden sun remake announcement.

I am rooting for you guys, hard. That’d be the best shill pick ever.

As of right now I'm definitely leaning on the skeptical side of things...

but it is going to become really hard to stay away from the hype train if Spring Man really does end up getting promoted.

 

[Nazyrus]

Honestly any of the current in game spirits becoming the playable one would already break that dumb stupid fan rule. I think it's either the main faces ribbon girl / springman, or Min Min who became the most popular character in that one tournament around the same time pass 2 was decided. And even if we get a non spirit/at from arms, the fact that we are getting a GS game coming up eventually still makes isaac possible regardless. Don't rely on the case of arms entirely.

 

[WaddleMatt]

I'm feeling extremely confident in our boy right now.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Honestly any of the current in game spirits becoming the playable one would already break that dumb stupid fan rule. I think it's either the main faces ribbon girl / springman, or Min Min who became the most popular character in that one tournament around the same time pass 2 was decided. And even if we get a non spirit/at from arms, the fact that we are getting a GS game coming up eventually still makes isaac possible regardless. Don't rely on the case of arms entirely.

I'm in the exact same boat, Arms is a different case than Golden Sun when it comes to assist trophy promotions I feel. It's a fighting game with a wacky cast of characters that the Smash team might prefer over Spring-Man. Isaac is the main protagonist and if it's really a remake we're getting he's going to be more relevant again than ever before as the face of the series. Isaac's held his demand consistently over 10 years compared to Spring Man who is a fairly new character and whether he gets in or not is going to be on his own terms rather than being linked to SpringMan's situation

 

[Xenigma]

I'm just excited by the idea that Nintendo is really investing in remasters. While I have to imagine some of that will be low-hanging fruit like Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, this seems a perfect time to explore some of their abandoned franchises to see if there is an appetite for them in the modern era. Obviously we're all rooting for Golden Sun here, but there is no lack of interesting choices out there. Racing games alone have F-Zero, Wave Race, 1080° Snowboarding, and Excitebike/Truck/etc all sitting on the shelf, waiting for an opportunity. Advance Wars is begging for a revival, be it as a rerelease of one of the existing games (Dual Strike please) or a full reboot. How about HD remasters of Punch-Out!! Wii or Eternal Darkness? Or maybe revivals of cult classics like Meteos and Hotel Dusk? I'm not sure how much of an appetite Nintendo has for taking risks right now, but while they're enjoying the success of the Switch, it feels like a great time to place some small bets on your back catalog in between your moneymakers like Zelda and Animal Crossing.

 

[Silo777]

Isaac lookin at the fighter pass after a Golden Sun is announced:

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Here's a kooky wacky theory. (where's my tinfoil hat)

June comes along and we end up getting not one, but two Arms reps!

Spring Man (with Ribbon Girl as alts)
Min Min (not an echo but more like a Luigi/Wolf/Isabelle situation where they borrow a number of elements from another fighter)

They are both dlc fighter #6 and #7.

and that....is the reason why they added a sixth fighter to this pass.....because they wanted at least five different franchises to be represented by the pass but Sakurai wanted to double dip with Arms.

and that is also why it's taken longer for the #6 fighter to be revealed because they're working on two fighters at once. (albeit similar ones)

*takes tinfoil hat off*

 

[N3ON]

Here's a kooky wacky theory. (where's my tinfoil hat)

June comes along and we end up getting not one, but two Arms reps!

Spring Man (with Ribbon Girl as alts)
Min Min (not an echo but more like a Luigi/Wolf/Isabelle situation where they borrow a number of elements from another fighter)

They are both dlc fighter #6 and #7.

and that....is the reason why they added a sixth fighter to this pass.....because they wanted at least five different franchises to be represented by the pass but Sakurai wanted to double dip with Arms.

and that is also why it's taken longer for the #6 fighter to be revealed because they're working on two fighters at once. (albeit similar ones)

*takes tinfoil hat off*

Oof, people would not be happy about that.

 

[Cadillac]

Here's a kooky wacky theory. (where's my tinfoil hat)

June comes along and we end up getting not one, but two Arms reps!

Spring Man (with Ribbon Girl as alts)
Min Min (not an echo but more like a Luigi/Wolf/Isabelle situation where they borrow a number of elements from another fighter)

They are both dlc fighter #6 and #7.

and that....is the reason why they added a sixth fighter to this pass.....because they wanted at least five different franchises to be represented by the pass but Sakurai wanted to double dip with Arms.

and that is also why it's taken longer for the #6 fighter to be revealed because they're working on two fighters at once. (albeit similar ones)

*takes tinfoil hat off*

I like Min Min, but that's not ok for me.

 

[Silo777]

Here's a kooky wacky theory. (where's my tinfoil hat)

June comes along and we end up getting not one, but two Arms reps!

Spring Man (with Ribbon Girl as alts)
Min Min (not an echo but more like a Luigi/Wolf/Isabelle situation where they borrow a number of elements from another fighter)

They are both dlc fighter #6 and #7.

and that....is the reason why they added a sixth fighter to this pass.....because they wanted at least five different franchises to be represented by the pass but Sakurai wanted to double dip with Arms.

and that is also why it's taken longer for the #6 fighter to be revealed because they're working on two fighters at once. (albeit similar ones)

*takes tinfoil hat off*

If you thought the reaction to Byleth was bad, this would be...well, yeah.

I do think that there may be a specific reason why there’s six fighters in this pass other than the fact they had more time, especially when they treated the sixth like it was a surprise bonus. Personally, I think someone might’ve been added to the plan at the last minute. Perhaps for promotional reasons. No way we’ll ever know if this is the case or not though, so it’s a bit of a moot point.

 

[Powerman293]

Man, I haven't seen Issac support outside of a specific thread in a really long time. Must've sucked to have the Grinch Leak get your guys' hopes up and specifically point to Issac with coinciding evidence and for it to all fall apart the next Direct.

 

[FlawedAI]

Man, I haven't seen Issac support outside of a specific thread in a really long time. Must've sucked to have the Grinch Leak get your guys' hopes up and specifically point to Issac with coinciding evidence and for it to all fall apart the next Direct.

Yeah, it was, but that was in November of 2018. We have plenty of brand new, trademark-related evidence that supports a brand new Golden Sun game, and we hope that Isaac in Smash follows along with it. These are exciting times for us!

 

[Kalaam]

They could also have added a 6th fighter because they had the budget for it, maybe because the characters this time around were "cheaper". We can't really know.

 

[Nazyrus]

They could also have added a 6th fighter because they had the budget for it, maybe because the characters this time around were "cheaper". We can't really know.

Cheaper and/or they just thought if this happened to be the last pass, lets try to please as many fans as possible. Who knows.

 

[THE 6r]

So, how we all feeling now?

 

[FlawedAI]

So, how we all feeling now?

I'm feeling great. At the very least, the trademark stuff shows something new is happening soon and that something combined with the ARMS rep makes me think Isaac has a better shot than ever.

 

[Organization XIII]

Man, I haven't seen Issac support outside of a specific thread in a really long time. Must've sucked to have the Grinch Leak get your guys' hopes up and specifically point to Issac with coinciding evidence and for it to all fall apart the next Direct.

Everyone moved to discord is why.

 

[Kalaam]

Everyone moved to discord is why.

And twitter.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I also have a feeling that trademark is great sign as well.

 

[N3ON]

Everyone moved to discord is why.

And twitter.

Well it's mostly due to Isaac being seen as deconfirmed. It's not like you hear people muse over Ashley or Skull Kid or Shovel Knight etc etc etc these days either, and their threads have also taken a much slower pace. Slower than this thread. It's just what happens.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Well it's mostly due to Isaac being seen as deconfirmed. It's not like you hear people muse over Ashley or Skull Kid or Shovel Knight etc etc etc these days either, and their threads have also taken a much slower pace. Slower than this thread. It's just what happens.

Imagine how much more active those threads would get if Spring Man was the DLC character.

 

[FlawedAI]

Imagine how much more active those threads would get if Spring Man was the DLC character.

I do miss the days when we'd go through 10+ pages in a day. That was a ton of fun. I also can't wait until we have to start a new thread for Isaac's character discussion instead of this newcomer thread!

 

[N3ON]

Imagine how much more active those threads would get if Spring Man was the DLC character.

At this point it'll be interesting to see where this thread caps out at, considering we're in uncharted territory for the size of an Isaac thread. But I don't anticipate us reaching the activity of the lead up to launch. However, that peak lasted about two months, while after the ARMS character we'll still have about a year and a half...

I do miss the days when we'd go through 10+ pages in a day. That was a ton of fun. I also can't wait until we have to start a new thread for Isaac's character discussion instead of this newcomer thread!

Well, this thread would remain the general Isaac thread, but considering he'd have his own sub-section, there'd be other threads too.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Man, I haven't seen Issac support outside of a specific thread in a really long time. Must've sucked to have the Grinch Leak get your guys' hopes up and specifically point to Issac with coinciding evidence and for it to all fall apart the next Direct.

We have had Isaac talk and support on different places, it's just a lot more barren now than it used to be thanks to the assist situation and for the general speculator to not have much to work with in his current spot especially with the commonly blurted out viewpoint that Waluigi will be the only one that can get a promotion. While most of us here are invested with the constant good news regarding the trademark it's a hard sell to explain to some people which really I'm fine with because if it is pointing to something coming they'll see it eventually. Compared to most assist trophies Isaac gets some of the most discussion around him which is fairly impressive considering most of them are fairly popular and are from active series.

 

[Organization XIII]

Well it's mostly due to Isaac being seen as deconfirmed. It's not like you hear people muse over Ashley or Skull Kid or Shovel Knight etc etc etc these days either, and their threads have also taken a much slower pace. Slower than this thread. It's just what happens.

That's the impetus for the move yes but on discord his support has retained more active. Not just to the Isaac server. You also see plenty of people who support Isaac but have given up due to AT status and that's why they left here. Still talk on discord though so you see support for him a lot. But yes the fact he's AT killed this thread but support moved to discord and Twitter apparently (which I don't use which is why I said apparently).
And of course for any who want a lively place the Isaac discord is a good place to start.

 

[Silo777]

Isaac is in a very odd spot right now, considering all that has happened. He himself is a bit of an oddity, being the only massively requested newcomer who is the protagonist of a first party series without a fighter yet. Because of that, it’s hard to tell what Nintendo would do if Golden Sun got another game right now. It’d be a first for a requested character like this to also have the opportunity to bring attention to another game, something we know Nintendo likes doing as we just saw with ARMS.

Isaac’s chances could skyrocket if we get to see what this trademark is leading up to, which could be a new game. It’s not just that he could be an advertisement, it’s also that it brings attention to him again. The main thing people brought up against Isaac was the status of his series, which was a somewhat valid point. However, if he were to get a new game in his series...the one thing realistically holding Isaac back would be gone. This is doubly so if Spring Man is the ARMS rep.

Also, remember what Sakurai said. It’s not necessarily about how well known they are, but instead what they can bring to the table.

 

[FlawedAI]

If a new Golden Sun game is on the docket for this year (or next, the 20th anniversary is next year) I don't see why Nintendo wouldn't push for Isaac. They have to be aware of the demand (from the Smash Ballot to the negative Assist reaction to the Golden Sundays) and obviously don't mind cross-promoting characters, as seen with Byleth and now ARMS. Isaac brings to the table nothing other characters could (outside of Felix or Matthew lol) so Sakurai would be able to do something new (with both earthbending and the Djinn, both are something brand new for Smash), plus he loves pleasing fans, so this would probably be big for him, as well. There's literally no reason not to, unless they think they can make more money with a different character, but the cross-promotion would be worth so much, that argument doesn't make much sense to me either.

 

[N3ON]

If a new Golden Sun game is on the docket for this year (or next, the 20th anniversary is next year) I don't see why Nintendo wouldn't push for Isaac. They have to be aware of the demand (from the Smash Ballot to the negative Assist reaction to the Golden Sundays) and obviously don't mind cross-promoting characters, as seen with Byleth and now ARMS. Isaac brings to the table nothing other characters could (outside of Felix or Matthew lol) so Sakurai would be able to do something new (with both earthbending and the Djinn, both are something brand new for Smash), plus he loves pleasing fans, so this would probably be big for him, as well. There's literally no reason not to, unless they think they can make more money with a different character, but the cross-promotion would be worth so much, that argument doesn't make much sense to me either.

If the game is a remake, it'd be because Nintendo doesn't usually roll out the red carpet for them as much as they do new titles. I mean remakes and remasters almost never affect the Smash roster.

If it's a new game the chances are better, though the chances of it being a new game are smaller. That said, it's also entirely possible they wouldn't intend to intertwine the game with Smash-related promotion just because that's an uncommon occurrence. I mean Nintendo opting to push a character through Smash is irregular enough that it not happening to a series that it's never before happened to would not be weird. It actually would be the status quo.

 

[Silo777]

If the game is a remake, it'd be because Nintendo doesn't usually roll out the red carpet for them as much as they do new titles. I mean remakes and remasters almost never affect the Smash roster.

Agreed, but I think there may be some leeway here for Isaac considering it’s not exactly a conventional case. As I said, a character we know for a fact Nintendo knows about the demand for has never gotten a game with the potential of promoting it with Smash before. As such, we don’t know if that could affect anything. It’s not just any remake either, I’d be genuinely surprised if this theoretical game was not born mostly from Isaac’s demand and the noise that came from it. Also, Golden Sun isn’t anywhere near an active series so the remake would probably almost be treated like a reboot. Most remakes Nintendo puts out are from their most active franchises, namely Mario, Zelda, and Pokémon. All those series usually already have the reps that the remakes would give them in Smash.

Strange scenario surrounding Isaac, for sure.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Isaac could always be a special case when it comes to promoting for a new game due to how requested he's been and the remake not just being another remake in a series but working as a way to relaunch the series, it will make his case even better if it's a full on reboot as well. In the end it's all up to Nintendo to decide if they want to go through with it. The best thing we could do at right now is hope for the best and keep the support going

 

[Organization XIII]

It's not like they haven't included characters to increase sales before. Nintendo is aware of the advertising effect. I can see them using Smash to coincide with the release of the new GS to garner attention for the series to help it be successful. Heck, they've done that with Bayo and Isaac is a character people have been asking for multiple games. It would make a lot of sense. It will be incredibly disheartening if Isaac doesn't make it into Ultimate but at least we aren't out yet.

 

[N3ON]

Agreed, but I think there may be some leeway here for Isaac considering it’s not exactly a conventional case. As I said, a character we know for a fact Nintendo knows about the demand for has never gotten a game with the potential of promoting it with Smash before. As such, we don’t know if that could affect anything. It’s not just any remake either, I’d be genuinely surprised if this theoretical game was not born mostly from Isaac’s demand and the noise that came from it. Also, Golden Sun isn’t anywhere near an active series so the remake would probably almost be treated like a reboot. Most remakes Nintendo puts out are from their most active franchises, namely Mario, Zelda, and Pokémon. All those series usually already have the reps that the remakes would give them in Smash.

Strange scenario surrounding Isaac, for sure.

It's not impossible but it's not so assured as to be the expectation people hold for the situation, insofar as it not coming to fruition would lead to surprise.

 

[Silo777]

It's not impossible but it's not so assured as to be the expectation people hold for the situation, insofar as it not coming to fruition would lead to surprise.

Oh absolutely, if all the stars were to align and this all happens then Isaac would clearly be the exception and not the rule.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I think if they had decided to revive Golden Sun because of Isaac's Smash popularity it'd be crazy, even contradictory not to include some Smash promotion of it.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

If the game is a remake, it'd be because Nintendo doesn't usually roll out the red carpet for them as much as they do new titles. I mean remakes and remasters almost never affect the Smash roster.

If it's a new game the chances are better, though the chances of it being a new game are smaller. That said, it's also entirely possible they wouldn't intend to intertwine the game with Smash-related promotion just because that's an uncommon occurrence. I mean Nintendo opting to push a character through Smash is irregular enough that it not happening to a series that it's never before happened to would not be weird. It actually would be the status quo.

I can see both sides of the argument really. You're right that there isn't really a reason to think anything special would happen for Isaac if it was a Golden Sun remake since they don't usually affect the Smash roster....

but on the other hand I can't think of a remake in recent memory that even had a character that was even remotely likely or popular as a possible addition. There's been a stream of Mario and Zelda remakes (along with the Metroid one and also various Pokemon ones) that I can't imagine how they would have had an affect on the Smash roster anyway.

In terms of remakes it may just be the case that there's never been a significant character from those remakes that would warrant their addition to the roster.

I do think a Golden Sun remake would be fairly unique in the sense that:

1. The reason for it existing in the first place could be because of the ballot vote and Isaac's popularity. So it's potentially already tied to Smash Bros through that.
2. It's the only remake I can think of that actually has a prominent character (the protagonist) attached to it who is not already on the Smash roster and already has significant fan demand behind them.

So I do agree with you but I also think there could be reason to believe that a Golden Sun remake could be a unique situation.

I think if they had decided to revive Golden Sun because of Isaac's Smash popularity it'd be crazy, even contradictory not to include some Smash promotion of it.

I'm not sure if I'd go as far as to say it was contradictory.....because it's not like it was Sakurai who decided to work on remaking Golden Sun.

but I'd be very surprised if a Golden Sun remake became a reality because of the Smash ballot and then Sakurai just didn't even consider adding Isaac to the roster even with that knowledge.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

but I'd be very surprised if a Golden Sun remake became a reality because of the Smash ballot and then Sakurai just didn't even consider adding Isaac to the roster even with that knowledge.

To be fair the base roster was finalised in 2016 and a new Golden Sun sequel/remake if it's hopefully happening would likely have begun development well after that so it's more of a time-frame that would fit this DLC pack than at the base roster period.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I have a gut feeling that we will hear about a new Golden Sun game or remastered when the E3 content drops.

 

[Xenigma]

So based on rumors published today, looks like the big E3 news will be a truckload of Mario remasters. Can't say it's what I would want, but it doesn't preclude news from other series/studios, and certainly doesn't debunk any of our evidence for Golden Sun unless Camelot has become a Mario remaster studio these past couple of years.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

You know I like Mario Tennis as much as the next guy, but I really wish Camelot would develop another game besides Mario Tennis or Mario Golf. Perhaps another Golden Sun game hmm???