Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[FlawedAI]

So based on rumors published today, looks like the big E3 news will be a truckload of Mario remasters. Can't say it's what I would want, but it doesn't preclude news from other series/studios, and certainly doesn't debunk any of our evidence for Golden Sun unless Camelot has become a Mario remaster studio these past couple of years.

Unless Nintendo wants to include Mario sports games in that collection of remasters, I don't think this is a problem. Not to mention, while this year is Mario's 35th anniversary, next year is Golden Sun's 20th. We might see a remaster for that, but I'm not sure if they'll really try to make it a 3-year development cycle just to match a specific. I still think the most likely thing is an announcement at "E3" this year and release later this year.

 

[Kalaam]

Unless Nintendo wants to include Mario sports games in that collection of remasters, I don't think this is a problem. Not to mention, while this year is Mario's 35th anniversary, next year is Golden Sun's 20th. We might see a remaster for that, but I'm not sure if they'll really try to make it a 3-year development cycle just to match a specific. I still think the most likely thing is an announcement at "E3" this year and release later this year.

Well, this could give them a reason to make the developpment a bit longer to expand on the game and overhaul improve on it.

 

[Silo777]

Unless Nintendo wants to include Mario sports games in that collection of remasters, I don't think this is a problem. Not to mention, while this year is Mario's 35th anniversary, next year is Golden Sun's 20th. We might see a remaster for that, but I'm not sure if they'll really try to make it a 3-year development cycle just to match a specific. I still think the most likely thing is an announcement at "E3" this year and release later this year.

If this info is correct, it didn’t mention side games whatsoever so there shouldn’t be an issue here. Seems like it’s just the heavy hitters which makes sense. Just imagine remastering almost every single mario game, side games included. All in all, I’m down for this if it turns out to be true. If anything, this might be a good thing as a Golf/Tennis game would no doubt get overshadowed.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

So based on rumors published today, looks like the big E3 news will be a truckload of Mario remasters. Can't say it's what I would want, but it doesn't preclude news from other series/studios, and certainly doesn't debunk any of our evidence for Golden Sun unless Camelot has become a Mario remaster studio these past couple of years.

It isn't necessarily confirmed for E3 (my guess is this being confirmed in a seperate Mario focused presenation) but yeah the lack of Mario Golf here is very encouraging at the moment although I feel Golden Sun will have a better chance for next year. Less competition from other heavy hitter RPGs coming out this year and they can capitalise more on 20th anniversary hype

 

[Silo777]

It isn't necessarily confirmed for E3 (my guess is this being confirmed in a seperate Mario focused presenation) but yeah the lack of Mario Golf here is very encouraging at the moment although I feel Golden Sun will have a better chance for next year. Less competition from other heavy hitter RPGs coming out this year and they can capitalise more on 20th anniversary hype

Yup, that’s how I feel too. Personally, I’m getting the feeling that it’s gonna be announced sometime this year with just a “2021” release date, maybe at the E3 direct. That’s when Dark Dawn was announced. We’d see the actual release date later on as well as more info in a general direct probably.

 

[ZelDan]

Hmmm, several new mario remasters? Even if it's Mario's anniversary and Mario is Nintendo's biggest character that still seems quite excessive. I'm not necessarily complaining as long as they have some non-Mario stuff to show as well, but damn.

One thing that might be cool though is if they make some sort of super awesome Mario All Stars like game, or A Mario All Stars sequel of sorts, where they put in more mario games than the SNES one did while giving the games a new fresh a paint, or in the cases of Mario 1-3, give them an even better coat of paint than the original Mario All-Stars did.

 

[Undella2]

So based on rumors published today, looks like the big E3 news will be a truckload of Mario remasters. Can't say it's what I would want, but it doesn't preclude news from other series/studios, and certainly doesn't debunk any of our evidence for Golden Sun unless Camelot has become a Mario remaster studio these past couple of years.

In before Super Mario Golden Sun Galaxy comes out, with the lumas all replaced with djinn.

 

[MeatOfJustice]

Here's a kooky wacky theory. (where's my tinfoil hat)

June comes along and we end up getting not one, but two Arms reps!

Spring Man (with Ribbon Girl as alts)
Min Min (not an echo but more like a Luigi/Wolf/Isabelle situation where they borrow a number of elements from another fighter)

They are both dlc fighter #6 and #7.

and that....is the reason why they added a sixth fighter to this pass.....because they wanted at least five different franchises to be represented by the pass but Sakurai wanted to double dip with Arms.

and that is also why it's taken longer for the #6 fighter to be revealed because they're working on two fighters at once. (albeit similar ones)

*takes tinfoil hat off*

If anything that could happen with the last 2, with the final slot being the bonus semi-clone.

But the chances of that are next to none. The devs won't make an echo for the pass and I imagine they're going all out with this (a game like SSBU won't be repeated) so a semi-clone shouldn't be considered either.

 

[SirCamp]

So not gonna lie, I have some reservations with this whole Mario remaster thing. Mostly because if this does come to pass, and with the perennially rumored Zelda HD ports, and Prime Trilogy potentially on the way at some point, how many remasters/remakes can we really expect? Certainly doesn’t mean anything bad directly but at the same time it worries me a little.

 

[N3ON]

I think the pertinent point for our purposes, that I'm not sure anyone has picked up on, is not what was leaked, but what wasn't. Past the ports and remasters, the leaks (and it is coming from more than one source) not only detail Nintendo's non-gaming related Mario plans, such as the movie and the theme park, but also out Paper Mario, which is a new game.

Yet, despite the report coming from... five different sources currently (afaik), not one of them has mentioned a Mario Golf, or any other Mario sports game, which presumably (though not necessarily) would be divulged, should it be part of Nintendo's Mario plans this year.

As per the Camelot cycle, this is a year in which, if we didn't get a game, we'd at least hear about what was next. So it's interesting that things seem pretty quiet on the Mario sports front.

 

[Organization XIII]

All the pieces seem to keep falling into place for Golden Sun to return. Maybe come June we will finally have an official confirmation of GS being back instead of speculation.

 

[Honest Slug]

After that assist trophy reveal I've been pretty down on Isaac's chances, however, over the past couple days I've started to become more optimistic:

Where as DLC pass 1 would've been decided before the game even came out, the second pass would've been decided afterwards, this means that if Sakurai has changed his mind on Isaac's role since the base game, the timeframe could line up for him to be a playable addition.

Arms rep (Along with Byleth) shows first party DLC is actually possible.

Every day that passes without Mario Golf Switch being revealed, increases the hopes of Camelot working on something Golden Sun related.

And finally, if Golden Sun does release on Switch, Isaac would be the perfect promotional character, if Nintendo has had as much sway over the DLC as we think they do, a playable Isaac would be a great opportunity to tie in to their Golden Sun revival.

The assist rule is just waiting to be broken at this point. Just replace Isaac's assist with someone like Felix when he's being played, or just have the Isaac assist not show up. Now that we're in territory where the fighters pass was decided after the base game, I don't see the assist as a deconfirm anymore.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Well this can go one of two ways.

1. Spring Man is playable and Isaac is on the table again
2. It's a different character and another protagonist could represent Golden Sun like Felix or Matthew.

Best of luck one way or another from the ARMS thread.

 

[Cadillac]

Well this can go one of two ways.

1. Spring Man is playable and Isaac is on the table again
2. It's a different character and another protagonist could represent Golden Sun like Felix or Matthew.

Best of luck one way or another from the ARMS thread.

I believe it's going to be Isaac, since they all have similar abilities. If they don't really have differences, I think Sakurai would put the face of GS. If Felix or Matthew gets in, they're probably gonna be alt costumes.

 

[FlawedAI]

Well this can go one of two ways.

1. Spring Man is playable and Isaac is on the table again
2. It's a different character and another protagonist could represent Golden Sun like Felix or Matthew.

Best of luck one way or another from the ARMS thread.

The thing is Golden Sun isn't like ARMS. ARMS' "main" character Spring Man isn't the most popular one, unlike GS where the main character and face of the franchise is Isaac. If a Golden Sun were to get in, it would be Isaac. Isaac is in a strange spot compared to other Assist Trophy characters: he's the face of the franchise and is a highly requested fighter for multiple games now and his series doesn't have a playable rep already. I don't think Sakurai would add anyone but Isaac.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Well this can go one of two ways.

1. Spring Man is playable and Isaac is on the table again
2. It's a different character and another protagonist could represent Golden Sun like Felix or Matthew.

Best of luck one way or another from the ARMS thread.

I've said this before but what happens with Arms is it's own case, unless Sakurai outright says in the presentation that Springman was rejected because assist trophies can't be promoted then yeah I could see it being bad for us, otherwise it would have no bearing on Isaac at all. Isaac being promoted will be in his own isolated case

 

[Kalaam]

It will be its own case, but it'll still support others. At least it will open up the speculation so it's healthier to talk about "disconfirmed" characters again.

 

[Diddy Kong]

After that assist trophy reveal I've been pretty down on Isaac's chances, however, over the past couple days I've started to become more optimistic:

Where as DLC pass 1 would've been decided before the game even came out, the second pass would've been decided afterwards, this means that if Sakurai has changed his mind on Isaac's role since the base game, the timeframe could line up for him to be a playable addition.

Arms rep (Along with Byleth) shows first party DLC is actually possible.

Every day that passes without Mario Golf Switch being revealed, increases the hopes of Camelot working on something Golden Sun related.

And finally, if Golden Sun does release on Switch, Isaac would be the perfect promotional character, if Nintendo has had as much sway over the DLC as we think they do, a playable Isaac would be a great opportunity to tie in to their Golden Sun revival.

The assist rule is just waiting to be broken at this point. Just replace Isaac's assist with someone like Felix when he's being played, or just have the Isaac assist not show up. Now that we're in territory where the fighters pass was decided after the base game, I don't see the assist as a deconfirm anymore.

This is a great analysis. And I agree. It wouldn't be so hard to change Isaac's AT to Matthew for example. They almost got the same look anyway.

Also about ARMS, it was released far before Smash, and still got considered for DLC, and not the base roster. So that confirms they're looking back in the past. AND having a focus on first party choices.

I KNEW with Nintendo handpicking the chocies there would've been more focus on 1st party characters. And am glad to be right.

Let's all wait patiently untill the Golden Sun shines again! I'm already feeling it's warmth

 

[Kalaam]

Imagine if during isaac reveal they also reveal Garet as a new Assist Trophy.

 

[THE 6r]

Imagine if during isaac reveal they also reveal Garet as a new Assist Trophy.

That would be HUGE (and really set off this site)

 

[Billybae10K]

Well, Golden Sun, as well as series like Advance Wars/Sin & Punishment & F-Zero just got some major shout-outs thanks to this video!

 

[Nazyrus]

Well, Golden Sun, as well as series like Advance Wars/Sin & Punishment & F-Zero just got some major shout-outs thanks to this video!

I'm so glad he pointed out Octopath Traveler on that part.
You listening, Nintendo? lol

 

[Diddy Kong]

Your reaction: Instead of the original GBA games getting a remake, we get a remake of Dark Dawn instead. No extra plot. Just Dark Dawn. Reasons? It was easier for them, and the GBA games come to the Switch VC whenever that releases.

Also, we get Matthew in Smash instead of Isaac.

 

[Billybae10K]

Your reaction: Instead of the original GBA games getting a remake, we get a remake of Dark Dawn instead. No extra plot. Just Dark Dawn. Reasons? It was easier for them, and the GBA games come to the Switch VC whenever that releases.

Also, we get Matthew in Smash instead of Isaac.

I'd still be happy, in the sense that having Golden Sun back is sort of the main goal here. But there will be a slight part of me that's going to be a bit bitter that, instead of a character we've been asking for for over a decade, we end up getting his son, who, to me, just feels like a weaker overall character since he's literally just an echo of his Dad.

 

[Kalaam]

Btw guys, think about checking that guy's channel and twitter. He does cool moveset videos for requested characters, it's based on the amount of individual requests, so we have our chance of being noticed !

 

[ZelDan]

Your reaction: Instead of the original GBA games getting a remake, we get a remake of Dark Dawn instead. No extra plot. Just Dark Dawn. Reasons? It was easier for them, and the GBA games come to the Switch VC whenever that releases.

Also, we get Matthew in Smash instead of Isaac.

That would be...pretty disappoiting for me tbh. Dark Dawn, while not a terrible game, is still easily the weakest of the 3 games, and isaac is the character I've been supporting, not to mention that matthew and Dark Dawn aren't exactly a part of my childhood like the first 2 games and their characters are.

My reaction would probably be something like "uhhh...okay? Why though...?"

 

[Kalaam]

Your reaction: Instead of the original GBA games getting a remake, we get a remake of Dark Dawn instead. No extra plot. Just Dark Dawn. Reasons? It was easier for them, and the GBA games come to the Switch VC whenever that releases.

Also, we get Matthew in Smash instead of Isaac.

I'd still be happy, but I'd question that choice. Once of Dark Dawn's issue is that it came out 10 years after the first two games. That's not a time to release a sequel.

 

[Xenigma]

Your reaction: Instead of the original GBA games getting a remake, we get a remake of Dark Dawn instead. No extra plot. Just Dark Dawn. Reasons? It was easier for them, and the GBA games come to the Switch VC whenever that releases.

Also, we get Matthew in Smash instead of Isaac.

Only if it's a true remake in that it attempts to fix the problems of the first go-around. That doesn't necessarily mean more story, but that does mean fixing the existing story so it makes more sense and fixes obvious problems like Himi's eleventh-hour introduction, and that absolutely means removing the points-of-no-return. I also hope they'd only remake Dawn Dawn if they were confident they could get a sequel greenlit, because leaving that giant cliffhanger unfulfilled again would be absurd.

Honestly, I'm pretty sure the safer route is remaking the originals. Even Dark Dawn would realistically need to be rebuilt from scratch to be at the quality level expected of a Switch game, and while obviously it would take more effort to rebuild two games than one, I have to imagine Camelot and Nintendo would rather invest in the fan-beloved, critically-acclaimed originals than the disappointingly mediocre DS sequel. If they sell well, then sure, maybe do that Dark Dawn remake, but starting with that feels like an obvious mistake that would be unlikely to get approved by Nintendo in the first place.

 

[Nazyrus]

Your reaction: Instead of the original GBA games getting a remake, we get a remake of Dark Dawn instead. No extra plot. Just Dark Dawn. Reasons? It was easier for them, and the GBA games come to the Switch VC whenever that releases.

Also, we get Matthew in Smash instead of Isaac.

That's still a decent win in my book, no complaints.

 

[Silo777]

Here’s another interesting hypothetical, this one being sorta the opposite. How would you feel if a Golden Sun remake including the first two games releases and ends up selling impressively enough so that Nintendo turns it into one of their ongoing series, but Dark Dawn is pretty much retconned as a result? Instead, we get a sequel that is very loosely based on Dark Dawn’s original premise, but gives the team enough creative freedom to actually make it on par with the originals if not better that they wouldn’t get otherwise.

The situation is odd. If Nintendo wants to continue the series after remakes of the originals, they’d probably either have to also remake Dark Dawn or pretend it doesn’t exist. The problem is that, since DD ended on a cliffhanger, you can’t just make a sequel to it and put it on the Switch. Not many people played DD and the people who are buying the sequel are mostly people who are fresh off playing the remakes, thinking this would be a direct follow up. It’s not as if Nintendo is making DD available, either. The only way to play it is to buy a DS if you don’t have one and then find a copy of DD, most likely online. That barrier of entry is simply too high, especially if it’s all for a game that isn’t even that amazing to begin with.

 

[FlawedAI]

Here’s another interesting hypothetical, this one being sorta the opposite. How would you feel if a Golden Sun remake including the first two games releases and ends up selling impressively enough so that Nintendo turns it into one of their ongoing series, but Dark Dawn is pretty much retconned as a result? Instead, we get a sequel that is very loosely based on Dark Dawn’s original premise, but gives the team enough creative freedom to actually make it on par with the originals if not better that they wouldn’t get otherwise.

The situation is odd. If Nintendo wants to continue the series after remakes of the originals, they’d probably either have to also remake Dark Dawn or pretend it doesn’t exist. The problem is that, since DD ended on a cliffhanger, you can’t just make a sequel to it and put it on the Switch. Not many people played DD and the people who are buying the sequel are mostly people who are fresh off playing the remakes, thinking this would be a direct follow up. It’s not as if Nintendo is making DD available, either. The only way to play it is to buy a DS if you don’t have one and then find a copy of DD, most likely online. That barrier of entry is simply too high, especially if it’s all for a game that isn’t even that amazing to begin with.

If it means getting a full rebirth of the series, yes. I'd keep most of the character names and the general story, but they have some freedom to remix the actual story beats as they see fit. As long as the Takahashi Bros are the ones in charge, I have faith it would be good.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Your reaction: Instead of the original GBA games getting a remake, we get a remake of Dark Dawn instead. No extra plot. Just Dark Dawn. Reasons? It was easier for them, and the GBA games come to the Switch VC whenever that releases.

Also, we get Matthew in Smash instead of Isaac.

If that means they are going to move onto the fourth game and want to expose the series to Switch owners then it isn't too bad. But it wouldn't really catch the same level of hype then the originals would give. It isn't the ideal way to revive the series I'd prefer but having the original games still being accessible in any way on the Switch is a win. And Matthew in Smash would still be fine, the series would be getting a fighter finally, his clothing looks cool and he's pretty much Isaac 2.0 in terms of his core abilities

Here’s another interesting hypothetical, this one being sorta the opposite. How would you feel if a Golden Sun remake including the first two games releases and ends up selling impressively enough so that Nintendo turns it into one of their ongoing series, but Dark Dawn is pretty much retconned as a result? Instead, we get a sequel that is very loosely based on Dark Dawn’s original premise, but gives the team enough creative freedom to actually make it on par with the originals if not better that they wouldn’t get otherwise.

The situation is odd. If Nintendo wants to continue the series after remakes of the originals, they’d probably either have to also remake Dark Dawn or pretend it doesn’t exist. The problem is that, since DD ended on a cliffhanger, you can’t just make a sequel to it and put it on the Switch. Not many people played DD and the people who are buying the sequel are mostly people who are fresh off playing the remakes, thinking this would be a direct follow up. It’s not as if Nintendo is making DD available, either. The only way to play it is to buy a DS if you don’t have one and then find a copy of DD, most likely online. That barrier of entry is simply too high, especially if it’s all for a game that isn’t even that amazing to begin with.

I think my ideal plan would be to make full fledged remakes for 1 and 2, a simple HD remaster of Dark Dawn that puts the game on a single screen and could have some fixes where it can and the fourth game. I feel can still follow Dark Dawn but make it easier for newcomers to get into and follow the story so we start with Takeru and build up his individual journey before easing players into the larger story in a way that makes them feel more immersed than overwhelmed

 

[Nazyrus]

I think my ideal plan would be to make full fledged remakes for 1 and 2, a simple HD remaster of Dark Dawn that puts the game on a single screen and could have some fixes where it can and the fourth game.

This 100%, honestly that's the best thing I think they could do, and hoping we do get.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I asked the question because, well, even if we get remakes of the original games, I still kind of doubt that Nintendo would push Golden Sun as a mainstream series. If we get a remake of the GBA games, maybe Dark Dawn will be skipped entirely. So a sure way to get the franchise going is remaking Dark Dawn, fix a few things about the story, and push for a sequel. It wasn't like I was not serious about it honestly.

 

[TempestSurge]

I asked the question because, well, even if we get remakes of the original games, I still kind of doubt that Nintendo would push Golden Sun as a mainstream series. If we get a remake of the GBA games, maybe Dark Dawn will be skipped entirely. So a sure way to get the franchise going is remaking Dark Dawn, fix a few things about the story, and push for a sequel. It wasn't like I was not serious about it honestly.

I think one thing about Golden Sun to remember is that Nintendo isn't the reason we're without a game right now. A bit after Dark Dawn's release, the Takahashi brothers put on a message about how much work and taxing it is to keep up with a continuous rpg storyline like Golden Sun and left it up to the fans as to whether there would be another entry. If the fan demand was there, they would make it, but they even still left a disclaimer that maybe even with that demand it wouldn't happen. The Takahashi Brothers also had an interview where after the first two Golden Sun games, Nintendo asked them to make another Golden Sun game and they sort of joke/laugh it off about not knowing why they haven't done it yet. Then they say, well we definitely have to do it cause Nintendo asked us! But it surely fits into why Dark Dawn took so long to be a thing cause they didn't start on it immediately. Could it even be why the quality is a bit low cause they felt like they had to do it? Who knows.

At the end of the day, I definitely don't think Nintendo would force creators to make a project if they themselves aren't up to it. It's a different case from Nintendo bringing down the hammer on Fire Emblem only for the creators to fight for their series. Here it's the creators that halted the production. Golden Sun doesn't come off as that kind of game anyways. The characters remain the same and the story has a definite end. Not that there couldn't be some way to keep it a series that could go on. But I don't feel like the Takahashi brothers would do that. They seem to have an overall grand story and likely has an endgame for the characters and series.

 

[Kalaam]

Dark Dawn didn't sell because Nintendo did not advertise it at all though.
The devs taking a break after a big project is a given, and I encourage them to do so. Like doing a golden sun, then a mario tennis/golf while taking their time to do the pre-prod of the next GS.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Your reaction: Instead of the original GBA games getting a remake, we get a remake of Dark Dawn instead. No extra plot. Just Dark Dawn. Reasons? It was easier for them, and the GBA games come to the Switch VC whenever that releases.

Also, we get Matthew in Smash instead of Isaac.

I'd be disappointed in the sense that Dark Dawn is the weakest game in the series and we really don't want to be introducing new players to the series with the weakest game in the series.

Ideally what we want is....

A remake/remaster of the first two games together.
A standard rerelease of Dark Dawn. (if only Virtual Console was still a thing)
Golden Sun 4

In that order.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'd be disappointed in the sense that Dark Dawn is the weakest game in the series and we really don't want to be introducing new players to the series with the weakest game in the series.

Ideally what we want is....

A remake/remaster of the first two games together.
A standard rerelease of Dark Dawn. (if only Virtual Console was still a thing)
Golden Sun 4

In that order.

But who is really to say that a reworked Dark Dawn won't be good? I mean, sure the DS game wasn't that great, at least compared to the GBA games because I still enjoyed it lots (especially the combat features). And it would work well with a new coat of paint.

Am not sure why anyone would want Dark Dawn to be skipped over completely.

I mean, imagine we get your situation. Remakes of the GBA games, regular DS quality Dark Dawn, and a sequel... Why would people even wanna touch Dark Dawn? The classics will be enjoyed anyway by the core fans. Remade or not.

That's what made me think of this all you know. We can't move forward without addressing Dark Dawn. And am not sure if Camelot is up to remaking 3 games, and then come with a sequel. Not in the estimated lifespan of the Switch anyway.

What am afraid of, is that we get a remake of the original Golden Sun, and after that nothing. Not even The Lost Age..... Or that we get the one remake of both The Broken Seal and The Lost Age, and after that nothing.

Am quite confident in us getting a Golden Sun for Switch, am more concerned about what they're gonna do afterwards honestly.

Makes me think that it might be even better to just create a sequel to Dark Dawn, and make it grand. Have Isaac lead again, encounter Felix and other old Adepts of the earlier games, fight Alex, fight the Wise One, and deal with that mysterious group Alex traveled with in Dark Dawn (completely forgot their name).

 

[Kalaam]

I sure wouldn't want to retcon dark dawn, it has a lot of good things (more than negatives). A remaster with some fixes, maybe new dialogues and removing the points of no return once you reach the endgame would be fine additions, but the game doesn't deserve a retcon. Just a rework.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Dark Dawn still set up a lot of cool things to follow up on and can easily have a more captivating story than Dark Dawn did, all they need to do is

Spoiler

have the main character be Takeru and ease newcomers into the larger story without overwhelming them

. I do wonder whether they are going to take criticisms like the easy difficulty and the lengthy dialogue scenes into account though