Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Kalaam]

Yeah Min-Min.
Sorry I don't know ARMS very well >.>

In any case, even if Springman isn't in (which I doubt, but well, Chrom wasn't in Sm4sh), it means they can add a franchise even with another character than the main one. So we could get Matthew or Felix in place of Isaac.

 

[N3ON]

In any case, even if Springman isn't in (which I doubt, but well, Chrom wasn't in Sm4sh), it means they can add a franchise even with another character than the main one. So we could get Matthew or Felix in place of Isaac.

But why would we?

 

[Kalaam]

But why would we?

Because if that ARMS fighter somewhat confirms the AT rule, he will also confirms that you don't have to be the main face of the franchise/game to be added as a fighter if said face is already used for an AT. So that AT decomfirm the fighter, not the franchise. So that even if that DLC confirms the AT rule, it also means that we could absolutely get Felix or Matthew in DLC despite Isaac being an AT (could even mean they are likely to be since ARMs is also a game with a lot of presence in Smash)

 

[N3ON]

Because if that ARMS fighter somewhat confirms the AT rule, he will also confirms that you don't have to be the main face of the franchise/game to be added as a fighter if said face is already used for an AT. So that AT decomfirm the fighter, not the franchise. So that even if that DLC confirms the AT rule, it also means that we could absolutely get Felix or Matthew in DLC despite Isaac being an AT (could even mean they are likely to be since ARMs is also a game with a lot of presence in Smash)

Yeah but ARMS has characters people care about as much if not more than Spring-Man.

Golden Sun isn't going to get anyone other than Isaac, because if Isaac got in it would be due to a demand no other character in the series has.

 

[FlawedAI]

Spring Man might be the "protagonist" of ARMS, but he's not the favored character among fans as opposed to Isaac, the face of the franchise and its most popular character. I believe Fighter 6 will be Spring Man, so that is very, very good news for us!

 

[Silo777]

Yeah but ARMS has characters people care about as much if not more than Spring-Man.

Golden Sun isn't going to get anyone other than Isaac, because if Isaac got in it would be due to a demand no other character in the series has.

This is what I was saying after the November direct when people started to jump ship to Felix. The fact of the matter is that Isaac has reached a point where he’s currently somehow more talked about than his own series is, which is incredibly rare. If Golden Sun gets a rep, I can say with quite a bit of certainty it would be Isaac no matter what.

In other news, this has to be the best case scenario for us if Spring Man does end up being in. Personally, I’m feeling a Hero/Bowser Jr. thing going on. Why else would they hold off? Not even a tease like Terry. That would not only prove that first parties have a good standing in Vol. 2, but also that Isaac is 100% irrefutably back on the table. If nothing else, we can be excited for that.

 

[TempestSurge]

Pretty stoked about the ARMS rep. It feels like it would have been a franchise included in Ultimate from the start had it added a similar number of new nintendo franchises like 4 did. Guess we'll have to wait and see who it is. Obviously Spring Man would finally give us the answer to assist promotion through DLC and the while idea of Waluigi having first dibs or the only one who's likely.

Of course if someone more popular over Spring Man is chosen I'm ready for the inevitable assist trophy narrative to continue. At the very least we now can put to rest the whole, Sakurai thinks of an assist as representation for Smash already so he wouldn't add a new fighter from that franchise. I know Isaac had that used against him before.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Interesting development that we're getting an Arms rep.

Also interesting that they didn't say who it would be. You would think that Spring Man would be the obvious choice but of course I do believe Min Min and Twintelle are more popular.

It's definitely a curious development, I'm all for the unexpected though. (since Isaac is unexpected by the Smash community )

 

[Icana]

Yo, Min Min is one of only three characters I supported on these boards for Smash! The other two were Elma from XenoX, and of course, Isaac from Golden Sun.

Isaac is #1 by far, but Min Min would legit be the first newcomer I would actually be excited for! And the fact that she won the Party Crash tournament last year, and is Arms producer Kosuke Yabuki favorite character.... my hopes are high right now!!

 

[Cadillac]

There was some theories about how the ARMS fighter could work like the Hero, Spring Man being the main and the others are alts.

 

[Billybae10K]

I think the fact that they were even willing to show Spring Man on the graphic with all the fighters for Arms is a good sign for any assist trophy character. It shows he's still potentially viable, though I wouldn't put off a potential ARMS 2 with new protag reveal in June, with that person being in Smash. Still, I'm hyped that first parties are getting some more attention!

Looks like we'll be waiting till June to see what we shall see though.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I definitely could see them going for a Hero type character with Arms.

I could see Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, Min Min and Ninjara working together, at least in a physical sense if not ability wise. (since they all have similar body shapes and spring arms)

Unlike Twintelle who has spring hair or others with vastly different body types.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

The fact that Nintendo is promoting their own IPs through DLC is still a good sign especially if Golden Sun Switch is on the way. Isaac is a consistent requested character over the decade so it's a no brainer really

 

[Icana]

I definitely could see them going for a Hero type character with Arms.

I could see Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, Min Min and Ninjara working together, at least in a physical sense if not ability wise. (since they all have similar body shapes and spring arms)

Unlike Twintelle who has spring hair or others with vastly different body types.

I can see Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, and Springtron playing off each other with the same moveset well. But for all the other characters, I think it would be a disservice to them. Ninjara has the Ninja theme going for him and is part of his gimmick. Min Min has the chinese elements of dragons and kung fu (kicks) as part of her theme and move-set gimmick, alongside the Ramen extendable Arms, and Ramen bowl cap. An element that makes Min Min, Min Min, would be missing if she was just a straight up long puncher like Spring Man, I think. Gotta have them kicks and mobility in there at least, and the Dragon morphing left arm would be a bonus.

 

[Pinguino21v]

Whats that? A franchise that already got miis, spirits and AT is gonna get a rep now in smash ultimate? Make a line please naysayers! Anything is possible, even more first party! Lets goooo

Let's goooo!

Personally, I’m feeling a Hero/Bowser Jr. thing going on.

That's defintively possible.

At the very least we now can put to rest the whole, Sakurai thinks of an assist as representation for Smash already so he wouldn't add a new fighter from that franchise.

I think the fact that they were even willing to show Spring Man on the graphic with all the fighters for Arms is a good sign for any assist trophy character.

That's really turning out well for us in this Direct (I didn't even knew existed). Nothing new about Camelot. A first-party with an AT in Smash. Everything brings me a lot of hope.

Edit
Someone did a smart remark on Elma thread:
From as far back as the games launch, the lack of music for ARMS sat alongside the lack of XCX music to me.

Golden Sun is also nearly in that case. Only music coming back from previous Smash. XCX and ARMS didn't exist at time.

 

[SPEN18]

the whole reveal was really just odd

they told us the franchise without specifying the rep and the whole segment was short enough that you could've just missed the news entirely if you weren't paying full attention to the Direct for a sec

given the situation they probably either have a bunch of alts like Hero OR they're just trying to give people something to speculate on before they reveal the specific character

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I can see Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, and Springtron playing off each other with the same moveset well. But for all the other characters, I think it would be a disservice to them. Ninjara has the Ninja theme going for him and is part of his gimmick. Min Min has the chinese elements of dragons and kung fu (kicks) as part of her theme and move-set gimmick, alongside the Ramen extendable Arms, and Ramen bowl cap. An element that makes Min Min, Min Min, would be missing if she was just a straight up long puncher like Spring Man, I think. Gotta have them kicks and mobility in there at least, and the Dragon morphing left arm would be a bonus.

I guess you could turn that around and ask whether they could have a composite moveset. Would it be too strange to see Spring Man and Ribbon Girl doing kicks like Min Min?

It wouldn't be the first time fighters have attacks they aren't able to use in their original games.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I guess you could turn that around and ask whether they could have a composite moveset. Would it be too strange to see Spring Man and Ribbon Girl doing kicks like Min Min?

It wouldn't be the first time fighters have attacks they aren't able to use in their original games.

Remember that part in OoT when Ganondorf used Wizard Foot against Link before Melee?

 

[Jibunzo]

Any Direct that doesn't show Camelot working on another Mario sports title is a win in my book!

 

[clearandsweet]

I'm generally bullish on this news. Arms wasn't one of my favorite games of all time, but I liked it. I liked the concept, character design and music even more though plus I think it'll have no trouble fitting into Smash gameplay-wise or aesthetically.

The fact that Nintendo is promoting their own IPs through DLC is still a good sign especially if Golden Sun Switch is on the way. Isaac is a consistent requested character over the decade so it's a no brainer really

This is my take. It just seems all the more obvious now. It's really reaffirming stuff that we'd kind of worked out and hoped for, e.g., they don't need 3rd party guest characters at this point to split profits with when they can build their own brand and still sell it, they will add IPs that have non-playable references in base-game content with FP2. Very good for us, overall.

It would have been slightly early to show a new GS Switch game too, alongside two other JRPGs. I'm betting on E3 or September 2020.

Also no Mario Golf.

I can't really be any more confident that good things are on the horizon short of having insider info.

 

[Bassoonist]

Yup, the biggest news here was no Mario Golf. When I saw it was a Nintendo Direct Mini, I had a huge sinking feeling, but nothing came of it, thankfully.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

To be honest I'm a little hesitant to think that this Arms fighter isn't going to be Min Min, considering she won the fan poll a while ago it sorta seems like she could be the first in line.

In order of likelihood I'm thinking:

Min Min >> Twintelle >> Ribbon Girl >> Multiple Arms fighters ("Hero"-like) >> Spring Man >> Any other Arms fighter

Obviously if it is Min Min, I don't think it severely damages us....but it doesn't do anything to help us either.

 

[FlawedAI]

If it was Min Min, that would be kinda strange. Smash has never introduced a franchise without a "protagonist"-type character, and Spring Man and Ribbon Girl are those two for ARMS. Obviously that doesn't mean Sakurai won't go with someone else, it just makes things better for Spring Man in my eyes.

 

[Nazyrus]

Alright guys… you ready?

Golden Sun trademark… as of now, seems to be fully approved.

As a small recap, NZ, SG and IN were the main regions used for "requirements" and both SG and IN already had granted protection, so only NZ remained. Yesterday I told you that NZ went through examination AND got no irregularity letters happening, which was great.

Today, it looks like this now

What does this mean?

It has been officially published in the gazette! So… basically it has been approved, at long last.

As you see, "ID" is still in the pre examination step of the "final decision", but that's not one of the three regions used for "requirements", so whatever happens to that one it won't really matter much. It most likely will get approved there as well I guess.

I would celebrate but since I'm not deeply in knowledge of there being anything else left to be done in terms of the trademark, I will keep an eye to how the website keeps updating regarding it. But this is amazing news, the last 2 times it got refused it was by NZ and ID, and the important one, being NZ, has gone through!

Final decision sounds very… final, so yeah. It's probably finally done. Now it's just a matter of time for Nintendo to announce whatever they had Camelot making. My hopes remain for the announcement to happen at some point in 2020. Logic would dictate to use the trademark as soon as possible to not waste lifetime of it, but you know nintendo… Hopefully it gets announced sooner rather than later!

 

[MeatOfJustice]

I'm not stoked about ARMS but at least it migh help our case.

Let's see... Spring Man is a Primary Spirit, AT and Costume; Ribbon Girl is a PS and Costume, Min Min is a PS, and Twintelle and Ninjara are Secondary Spirits.

We already have both the most recognizable and the most popular characters. So unless they pick Max Brass because of his authority or an off the wall character like Helix then we're getting an upgrade.

 

[THE 6r]

So, no Mario Golf and ARMS?

Fantastic

 

[GoodGrief741]

Not gonna lie, this is reaaaallly good for us.

We might end up seeing the sun rise after all.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

If it was Min Min, that would be kinda strange. Smash has never introduced a franchise without a "protagonist"-type character, and Spring Man and Ribbon Girl are those two for ARMS. Obviously that doesn't mean Sakurai won't go with someone else, it just makes things better for Spring Man in my eyes.

Maybe but I do kinda feel like the fact that it's a relatively new fighting game franchise with an ensemble cast means that they might be more likely to go with fan popularity on this one. (ie Min Min)

It's not like Street Fighter where the "protagonist" is already a huge icon in their own right.

I mean, I don't think Heihachi is the protagonist of Tekken is he?....and yet people support him as the number one choice. (I don't believe Nightmare or Sophitia are the main protagonists of Soul Calibur either?) (though I guess Terry is the protagonist of his fighting games? I'm not sure)

I think fighting games are a little odd in that respect.

Edit: Also, that kinda feels like a bit of a "fan rule" to me. There are certainly franchises that would end up breaking that rule if they were to get a playable fighter. (Danganronpa is one that comes to mind)

 

[Michael the Spikester]

If it was Min Min, that would be kinda strange. Smash has never introduced a franchise without a "protagonist"-type character, and Spring Man and Ribbon Girl are those two for ARMS. Obviously that doesn't mean Sakurai won't go with someone else, it just makes things better for Spring Man in my eyes.

Keep in mind Spring Man is an assist and Ribbon Girl is an Mii costume. ARMS also seems like one of those franchises where there seemingly isn't an main protagonist so I could see them going with the most popular character and that's Minmin.

It'd destroy the protagonist first and spirit deconfirmation fan rules. Talk about pretty much killing two birds with one stone.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

It does seem like whatever happens with this Arms rep, the "spirits deconfirm" fan rule will be put to rest. Since all the frontrunners (to me anyway) already have spirits.

Not surprised with that at all, it always seemed like a very flimsy argument to me.

Great news for Geno, Dixie Kong, Bandana Dee and Shantae fans I'd say. (among others)

(Unless Arms 2 gets announced in the "E3" Nintendo direct and we get a brand new character....)

 

[True Blue Warrior]

It does seem like whatever happens with this Arms rep, the "spirits deconfirm" fan rule will be put to rest. Since all the frontrunners (to me anyway) already have spirits.

Not surprised with that at all, it always seemed like a very flimsy argument to me.

Great news for Geno, Dixie Kong, Bandana Dee and Shantae fans I'd say. (among others)

Also the idea of an ARMS sequel affecting the roster is a stretch. The fact that they even showed Spring Man as a viable candidate when talking about ARMS characters is pretty telling.

 

[FlawedAI]

Maybe but I do kinda feel like the fact that it's a relatively new fighting game franchise with an ensemble cast means that they might be more likely to go with fan popularity on this one. (ie Min Min)

It's not like Street Fighter where the "protagonist" is already a huge icon in their own right.

I mean, I don't think Heihachi is the protagonist of Tekken is he?....and yet people support him as the number one choice. (I don't believe Nightmare or Sophitia are the main protagonists of Soul Calibur either?) (though I guess Terry is the protagonist of his fighting games? I'm not sure)

I think fighting games are a little odd in that respect.

Edit: Also, that kinda feels like a bit of a "fan rule" to me. There are certainly franchises that would end up breaking that rule if they were to get a playable fighter. (Danganronpa is one that comes to mind)

Keep in mind Spring Man is an assist and Ribbon Girl is an Mii costume. ARMS also seems like one of those franchises where there seemingly isn't an main protagonist so I could see them going with the most popular character and that's Minmin.

It'd destroy the protagonist first and spirit deconfirmation fan rules. Talk about pretty much killing two birds with one stone.

All fair. I will say, the protagonist first pattern kind of helps us since let's be real, if any character were to be added from Golden Sun, it would be Isaac. To be fair, RPGs and fighting games are, as you said, different in terms of "protagonists" and their character roster. I still believe it will be Spring Man, but the fact that it could be someone else is exciting.

 

[ArkSPiTFirE]

Whatever happens it'll be intereseting to see what they do with the Spirit Board. Do they use already existing ones or do they add ones that haven't been seen yet? I'm expecting a mix personally.

I'm excited to see who it is. I'm expecting it to be multiple fighter skins, based on how they have said "Well it's a fighter from this list of Arms characters". But of course I hope the default is Spring Man and we can finally see an assist trophy promoted. It pretty much opens the door for us; almost as much as a new GS game which is also looking more and more likely with both the Trademark and no Mario Golf. Woo!

 

[GoodGrief741]

Maybe but I do kinda feel like the fact that it's a relatively new fighting game franchise with an ensemble cast means that they might be more likely to go with fan popularity on this one. (ie Min Min)

It's not like Street Fighter where the "protagonist" is already a huge icon in their own right.

I mean, I don't think Heihachi is the protagonist of Tekken is he?....and yet people support him as the number one choice. (I don't believe Nightmare or Sophitia are the main protagonists of Soul Calibur either?) (though I guess Terry is the protagonist of his fighting games? I'm not sure)

I think fighting games are a little odd in that respect.

Edit: Also, that kinda feels like a bit of a "fan rule" to me. There are certainly franchises that would end up breaking that rule if they were to get a playable fighter. (Danganronpa is one that comes to mind)

I'd say Heihachi is absolutely the protagonist of Tekken. You may have a point with Soul Calibur, but it's also possible to see Nightmare as the main character. The one fighting game I can think of where the mascot is undisputably not the main character is Mortal Kombat.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Whatever happens it'll be intereseting to see what they do with the Spirit Board. Do they use already existing ones or do they add ones that haven't been seen yet? I'm expecting a mix personally.

I'm excited to see who it is. I'm expecting it to be multiple fighter skins, based on how they have said "Well it's a fighter from this list of Arms characters". But of course I hope the default is Spring Man and we can finally see an assist trophy promoted. It pretty much opens the door for us; almost as much as a new GS game which is also looking more and more likely with both the Trademark and no Mario Golf. Woo!

If Arms 2 isn't coming and the spirit board for this Arms fighter includes spirits for Arms fighters that aren't already spirits....it could help an argument for getting Isaac even if there isn't a new Golden Sun game coming.

Up until now people have said that DLC characters could only come from games new to Smash Bros because spirits from those games were needed for the spirit board....however if the above happens that may not be the case.

So it would mean that Isaac could be made playable and then come with spirits like Kraden, Sheba, Piers, Saturos, Menardi etc rather than needing spirits from a brand new Golden Sun game.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

Remember that part in OoT when Ganondorf used Wizard Foot against Link before Melee?

I loved using Grand Cross in Super Castlevania 4 and aiming the vampire killer upwards in Rondo of Blood. Ness is my favorite Earthbound party member because of PK Fire.

Yeah im just memeing here. Just to further reinforce your point.

 

[SPEN18]

I'm gonna say that the whole "ATs are deconfirmed" argument is pretty much gone even if it is Min Min or whoever. The AT didn't stop them from adding ARMS. I can pretty much guarantee you that the logic behind adding ARMS wasn't just "they have good choices for characters that aren't ATs." If Spring Man was the only good choice for an ARMS rep, they'd pick him, AT or no. That said, I'd prefer Spring Man over other characters from ARMS because he's the face of the game and it would make for less debate about the viability of AT promos.

Also, given that ARMS is past its peak marketing period but still "relevant" in the sense that it is a Switch game, I'd say that this puts Rex+Pyra in a much better position. It's a fairly odd choice in terms of timing, which maybe helps other older characters a bit, but given that ARMS is still a Switch game it probably doesn't help all that much.

 

[Pinguino21v]

I saw people on Reddit saying that that weird announcement of a first party was made because the Covid stopped their plan for an eventual third party character as the first character of the pass, therefore forcing them to move ARMS in the first spot, and moving the third parties at later spots. What do you think of that?

For myself, I don't know. Isn't it somewhat like "earthquake theory"? They weren't forced to show anything to use, they perfectly were able to wait even more to keep the character order they were planning.

 

[Nazyrus]

Don't mind me I just made our celebration meme in advance (for whenever we get the game announcement, or isaac… or both!)

 

[Xenigma]

Definitely feeling really good after today's Direct, although I only found out about it by seeing Billybae10K 's video in my subcriptions titled "ARMS IN SMASH?", so that surprise was kind of ruined. Not exactly big on first-party news, but like everyone else here I was stoked to see both no Camelot announcement and a presumptive fan rule-breaking ARMS character, given all the obvious picks (Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, Min Min, and Twintelle, plus Ninjara for good measure) are in the base game as spirits at minimum. Obviously the lack of a Camelot announcement doesn't necessarily help us, nor does the ARMS character depending on the exact implementation, but it all fits into the narrative we've been hoping for in this thread.

Also, while it was a very bare-bones announcement among some other more exciting third-party news, Episode I Racer is incredibly nostalgic for me, as my very first game console was a Nintendo 64 bundled with said game. I don't know if this port will be any good, but I'm definitely interested in playing that game again all these years later.