Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

Tetiro · Sep 17, 2018

Mehdow said:
That would be really interesting, knowing how hyped are we I think it's one of the best way to keep it, showing a lot of new things one after other.

The way to hype that sort of thing to the max would be as such (for example) (and assuming the number of character reveals is the same as the August Direct)

Starts with a Newcomer from a new franchise
- Facts 1-12 with the a good chunk of facts focusing on that new franchise
Reveals an Echo fighter
- Facts 13-25 with some facts on the Echo fighter and tidbits
Reveals another Echo fighter
- Facts 26-37 with some facts on the Echo fighter and modes
Reveals another Echo fighter
- Facts 38-49 with some facts on the Echo fighter and assist trophies
- Fact 50 is the announcement of DLC (more information soon)
Ends with the Final Newcomer

I would be very hyped with this format

Mehdow · Sep 17, 2018

I'm a little lost in all this "blog missing numbers" stuff since Isabelle was revealed. So right now how many empty numbers are left? What kind of smash thing could fit in those numbers and in which way it could mean there was a character cut out from the last direct?

TempestSurge · Sep 17, 2018

Kalaam said:
Wtf, I come back and see 35 alerts, I think something big happened but no, it's just you all who enjoyed my ****ty meme xD

Let's try not to convince ourselves that Isaac must be at X or Y point of a direct, or else we're gonna have one hell of an emotionnal rollercoaster during the directs.

I think Isaac will be in the same vein as Simon. New series/IP to smash for Sakurai to delve into the history of the games, movesets, potential echo, and stage functions feels like a character that will be shown first for Sakurai to talk about his design vs Ridley and K. Rool who didn't come with stages of their own and are part of an existing series. So that seems like a safe guess to expect Isaac at the beginning of a Smash direct. Though if he's at the end, I'll expect another direct where Sakurai goes over his moveset as I feel that's what revealing the designs entail.

The huge roller coaster comes into play when we hype ourselves up and are convinced that this specific direct is the one Isaac will show up so if he doesn't show, that's just going from an extreme high to low if we don't hype responsibly.

Mrs.Milky · Sep 17, 2018

Hey guys, not the biggest Issac fan but I had a dream about him last night and now I like him Alot better lol(strange? I know) anyway, how high was he in ballot? And if he was high, how come he didn't receive a mii costume?

Flynn.Scifo · Sep 17, 2018

Good morning fellow Djinn trainers !

So what's the leak of the day ?
Have the boxists retreat yet ?
Has Vergeben confessed ?

I need a coffee :drflip:

Mrs.Milky said:
Hey guys, not the biggest Issac fan but I had a dream about him last night and now I like him Alot better lol(strange? I know) anyway, how high was he in ballot? And if he was high, how come he didn't receive a mii costume?

Welcome Mrs.Milky ! My (optimistic) theory is that Isaac didn't get an assist trophy nor costume in smash 4 because he was considered potential DLC at some point but got dropped because of various reasons like Sakurai willing to keep him for Ultimate.

Edit : meh double post ... need more coffee ... :drflip:

TempestSurge · Sep 17, 2018

Flynn.Scifo said:
Good morning fellow Djinn trainers !

So what's the leak of the day ?
Have the boxists retreat yet ?
Has Vergeben confessed ?

I need a coffee

Boxists won't retreat till someone like Isaac gets confirmed to debunk every theory. The 103ers, boxists thinking only two characters left, Verge who said nothing of Isaac and thus doesn't know everything (even though that's already been a thing with him not knowing K. Rool, Chrom, and Dark Samus).

Q-Long · Sep 17, 2018

Are the translated memories posted anywhere? I like little things like that. Gets people into the games.

I wonder why NoA and stuff don't do that. Additionally how many of you read trophies?

I did all the time for Melee and sometimes for Brawl, but didn't really for Smash 4 for some reason. I can't figure out why. As a kid, trophies of series I didn't play gave me this cool sense of mystery and speculation.

Confirmation · Sep 17, 2018

Mrs.Milky said:
Hey guys, not the biggest Issac fan but I had a dream about him last night and now I like him Alot better lol(strange? I know) anyway, how high was he in ballot? And if he was high, how come he didn't receive a mii costume?

We don't know the result of Sakurai's ballot, but from ones like SmashDojo's (multiple site 40k responses) Isaac did really well; he was #2, right under K. Rool.

Mii costumes don't really work as measures of Smash popularity; I see them more as acknowledgements that these characters exist by Sakurai. Gil, Dunban, Jacky, Flying Man are all Mii costumes I had no clue who they were when I saw the list and I know most of the popular Smash picks, and even characters that are sorta popular but whose popularity is nonexistent in Smash like K. K. Slider and Viridi got them as well.

Tetiro · Sep 17, 2018

Now the hype for Smash is back on the road, what track do we hope Isaac gets for his trailer if he gets included?

While it is more relevant to him, I'd want Felix's Battle Theme. Unless of course Felix is an echo in which case I am all for Isaac's Battle Theme

Q-Long · Sep 17, 2018

They definitely added the fighting game costumes to tie into Ryu.

But I wonder what the costume selection method was. From popular characters like King K Rool to obscure ones like Gilgamesh.

Tetiro · Sep 17, 2018

Q-Long said:
They definitely added the fighting game costumes to tie into Ryu.

But I wonder what the costume selection method was. From popular characters like King K Rool to obscure ones like Gilgamesh.

If I had a guess it was a mix of "obvious popular choices" to hint to Smash Ultimate but then a series of niche ones as fun references and also to throw off the scent. It was obvious K Rool and Inklings would get in eventually so adding characters like Black Knight and Akira really throw off the scent to make you doubt their inclusion.

But mainly as fun niche references

XenoWarriorX · Sep 17, 2018

Q-Long said:
They definitely added the fighting game costumes to tie into Ryu.

But I wonder what the costume selection method was. From popular characters like King K Rool to obscure ones like Gilgamesh.

i see no pattern, if I'm brutally honest.

SmashBro99 · Sep 17, 2018

Am I the only one who thinks leakers are just lucky guessers? Like they miss stuff all the time and everyone still blindly follows them lol.

Or maybe I'm just hoping because if he's right then it'd be a huge letdown?

Metocles · Sep 17, 2018

Mrs.Milky said:
Hey guys, not the biggest Issac fan but I had a dream about him last night and now I like him Alot better lol(strange? I know) anyway, how high was he in ballot? And if he was high, how come he didn't receive a mii costume?

Well, we think that he did well considering the data we have, namely this exit poll collection from right around the ballot time period. I think at the very least we can set a reasonable assumption to being top 10 even if he's not necessarily #2 like in that collection of data. He is a consistently popular character, however; and was bolstered by the help of not actually being in Sm4sh. People assumed the ballot was used as DLC, so that's why Ridley is further back.

Even if people knew that it would be used for further smash games, I think Isaac would still have done strongly. He's typically top 5 and doesn't float too far back from that position. This especially being the case when you can only have one vote to cast.

Why he didn't have a mii costume is down to pure speculation as we never really get much info to work with. Sakurai did talk about the K. Rool costume being there because he was popular I think, but others don't really get that. Not all the costumes were necessarily from the makeup of strong ballot winners. You can go over the list yourself and see it's sometimes comprised of fun little costumes from characters who wouldn't otherwise get in. You have two Virtua Fighter costumes, a Tekken character, two different Monster Hunter outfits, Gil from Tower of Druaga and then a slew of other wacky outfits like a Chocobo.

Dark Samus, Daisy, Simon, Richter and Ridley all had no costumes either yet they're playable now so it's certainly not a hard rule. A lot of the mii costumes feel like a mixture between dream characters, popular ones and seemingly arbitrary ones depending on the whim of the devs. It's nice to use the inverse of the rule to test it really. Does the fact that Isaac not having a mii mean he's definitely not going to be playable? I'd counter with, does Akira from Virtua Fighter having a mii costume definitely mean he's going to be playable? Maybe it would be more illuminating if the mii costumes really was filled with speculated characters. If all of those characters I listed above were alongside Bandana Waddle Dee and every character thread out there right now with a costume with the exception of Isaac, it would be worth looking into. I just can't help but feel that it's a self-imposed rule that just has no true bearing on anything.

Q-Long · Sep 17, 2018

The Brawl Remix of Felix theme / Doom Dragon would fit well with the idea of Rathalos being in the trailer. Isaac appears, shows off his moves, than fights Rathalos (or would be cooler if we had a "Doom Dragon" of K Rool, Bowser, and Ridley). This trailer would be kind of similar to the Belmont one.

As a nod to that Brawl theme, a new remix that fuses Isaac theme with Fusion Dragon would be cool as well. I think using two seperate songs would work too. A passive one, than a cool GS battle theme. Like Sol Sanctum than Saturos theme.

XenoWarriorX said:
L

i see no pattern, if I'm brutally honest.

Yeah, since characters are more important than costumes, I see Sakurai and his team just picking costumes based on their likes.

Tetiro said:
If I had a guess it was a mix of "obvious popular choices" to hint to Smash Ultimate but then a series of niche ones as fun references and also to throw off the scent. It was obvious K Rool and Inklings would get in eventually so adding characters like Black Knight and Akira really throw off the scent to make you doubt their inclusion.

But mainly as fun niche references

I like the idea of using Smash as a way to get people into more obscure games. Akira's theme for Ryu's stage pls!

Tōji · Sep 17, 2018

A little off-topic, but somehow I had never seen this fake before today and it's over a year old! Golden Sun Switch... Maybe one day. <3

Seoxys · Sep 17, 2018

Also, I just remembered my dream from last night...

I dreamed that Isaac was in Smash... but his design was REALLY similar to Cloud for some reason, not as in how his attack were, but how he got drawn and all of the art-related stuff.

Take that any way that you will XD

Metocles · Sep 17, 2018

SmashBro99 said:
Am I the only one who thinks leakers are just lucky guessers? Like they miss stuff all the time and everyone still blindly follows them lol.

Or maybe I'm just hoping because if he's right then it'd be a huge letdown?

Well, for sure there is a reason to be skeptical about any information that you hear from a human being. People lie all the time, and it's even easier for people lie to you if they don't know you and they're behind an anonymous moniker, online no less.

This is where credibility comes into play. If the information you provide ends up being truthful, people are more willing to believe you even if some information you provided was slightly incorrect. When your credibility builds up to a certain point, then you build reputation. Vergeben actually has pretty good reputation all things considered and not just for Smash games. He originally leaks information from other games out to the public as well, but he doesn't have a perfect track record either. Namely the new Castlevania games being a thing at E3 (which they weren't), but people are giving him the benefit of the doubt in terms of Smash information given that that piece of information was about Castlevania and not Smash.

But, this is where it's good to be a healthy skeptic. It's not good at all to blindly follow anything that anybody says without looking into the reality of the situation yourself. That doesn't mean to never believe anything anyone has to say either, just simply take the information and verify the claims. With the things that Vergeben and other leakers say; it's the simplest thing in the world to do. You just wait. Just a few posts ago, I called out Ken and being skeptical of him as a character because honestly it's the riskiest piece of information that he's revealed to date in my honest opinion. You're free to do the same with anything he says as well.

Q-Long · Sep 17, 2018

Tōji said:
A little off-topic, but somehow I had never seen this fake before today and it's over a year old! Golden Sun Switch... Maybe one day. <3

I remember that a fake leak is what caused Dark Dawn to even exist. That was a good idea, but I guess it was too soon to cause some real discussion. No Sap is going to fall for that!

I think timing it with September's direct would have caused more speculation.

TempestSurge · Sep 17, 2018

SmashBro99 said:
Am I the only one who thinks leakers are just lucky guessers? Like they miss stuff all the time and everyone still blindly follows them lol.

Or maybe I'm just hoping because if he's right then it'd be a huge letdown?

Sakurai went to such great lengths to hide the everyone is here that even some employees were shocked when the direct played. I highly doubt anyone knows the entire roster. It's likely why Verge isn't outright claiming the characters he knows are the only two left, in the case of box theory falling flat. How does he know Ridley and Simon across two different directs but missed K. Rool in the same direct as Simon, there could be others he's not aware of. Heck, I'm surprised to learn that even the announcer is given fake names to say.

Mrs.Milky · Sep 17, 2018

Metocles said:
Well, we think that he did well considering the data we have, namely this exit poll collection from right around the ballot time period. I think at the very least we can set a reasonable assumption to being top 10 even if he's not necessarily #2 like in that collection of data. He is a consistently popular character, however; and was bolstered by the help of not actually being in Sm4sh. People assumed the ballot was used as DLC, so that's why Ridley is further back.

Even if people knew that it would be used for further smash games, I think Isaac would still have done strongly. He's typically top 5 and doesn't float too far back from that position. This especially being the case when you can only have one vote to cast.

Why he didn't have a mii costume is down to pure speculation as we never really get much info to work with. Sakurai did talk about the K. Rool costume being there because he was popular I think, but others don't really get that. Not all the costumes were necessarily from the makeup of strong ballot winners. You can go over the list yourself and see it's sometimes comprised of fun little costumes from characters who wouldn't otherwise get in. You have two Virtua Fighter costumes, a Tekken character, two different Monster Hunter outfits, Gil from Tower of Druaga and then a slew of other wacky outfits like a Chocobo.

Dark Samus, Daisy, Simon, Richter and Ridley all had no costumes either yet they're playable now so it's certainly not a hard rule. A lot of the mii costumes feel like a mixture between dream characters, popular ones and seemingly arbitrary ones depending on the whim of the devs. It's nice to use the inverse of the rule to test it really. Does the fact that Isaac not having a mii mean he's definitely not going to be playable? I'd counter with, does Akira from Virtua Fighter having a mii costume definitely mean he's going to be playable? Maybe it would be more illuminating if the mii costumes really was filled with speculated characters. If all of those characters I listed above were alongside Bandana Waddle Dee and every character thread out there right now with a costume with the exception of Isaac, it would be worth looking into. I just can't help but feel that it's a self-imposed rule that just has no true bearing on anything.

Well actually daisy had a costume head but yeah

Flynn.Scifo · Sep 17, 2018

SmashBro99 said:
Am I the only one who thinks leakers are just lucky guessers? Like they miss stuff all the time and everyone still blindly follows them lol.

Or maybe I'm just hoping because if he's right then it'd be a huge letdown?

I believe some of them might have very little and limited knowledge, not enough for it to be exciting. Yet they don't want to loose their momentum.
Could also be pure luck guesses, it's not like predicting Isabelle was super hard.

Rethuic · Sep 17, 2018

To be honest, I do think Vergeben does have actual sources, but they wouldn't be able to hear everything. His sources are probably people who were best buds with people who actually work on some characters or people who've heard it talked about. If Verge was a fake after all this stuff, then that is some godly luck. Otherwise, I think he's gotten a lot of stuff from sources. I do think there is a possibility of him being wrong on something, the Minecraft thing in particular. Another thing to note is that other leakers have leaked/guessed King K correctly, the Neogaf leak that said 6 more newcomers (excluding Ridley) in particular.

Tetiro · Sep 17, 2018

Here's a thought. Let's assume a Golden Sun game gets announced for Switch and it is 3D again. How would you want the style to look?

For me, I'd want it to look like the concept/official art but uses cel-shading (though not over the top) akin to Breath of the Wild or Xenoblade 2 to ensure that it doesn't fall victim to Twilight Princess and its bad aging. As while I love Twilight Princess it has aged terribly unlike Wind Waker, Skyward Sword and Breath of the Wild which focuses on style and as a result will age very nicely.

I'm just curious what the ideal art style would be for Golden Sun in the modern age

Rethuic · Sep 17, 2018

Tetiro said:
Here's a thought. Let's assume a Golden Sun game gets announced for Switch and it is 3D again. How would you want the style to look?

For me, I'd want it to look like the concept art but uses cel-shading (though not over the top) akin to Breath of the Wild or Xenoblade 2 to ensure that it doesn't fall victim to Twilight Princess and its bad aging. As while I love Twilight Princess it has aged terribly unlike Wind Waker, Skyward Sword and Breath of the Wild which focuses on style and as a result will age very nicely.

I'm just curious what the ideal art style would be for Golden Sun in the modern age

I think we are all dreaming of Golden Sun 4. A similar art style to Breath of the Wild would be pretty neat, though I get the feel that it would be better to look at the specific way the characters look in terms of shading in the Mario Sports games. Both are made by Camelot.

Diddy Kong · Sep 17, 2018

Isaac is literally the ONE character which could proof the whole box theory wrong and blow it out of the waters. Same with everyone riding the Vergeben predictions bandwagonist ride. I still put in more faith in the 'tease' by Sakurai, than what all these other guys got to say. Hopefully Isaac's reveal will still pull through and give us speculators some hope again. Isaac is the one character I can see this doing, and it would be extra hype to me if Isaac did this all.

As for what style Golden Sun should have in a modern age? I still hope on a sort of celshaded look, but focussing most on a similar sort of art style as the original GBA Golden Sun games. I even wouldn't mind them using sprites if it polishes the look. Leave the fancy 3D effects for Summons and Psynergy, as well as the backgrounds and stuff. I want the game to look colorful but with a certain debt in the enviorments like the original games did.

Metocles · Sep 17, 2018

Tetiro said:
Here's a thought. Let's assume a Golden Sun game gets announced for Switch and it is 3D again. How would you want the style to look?

For me, I'd want it to look like the concept art but uses cel-shading (though not over the top) akin to Breath of the Wild or Xenoblade 2 to ensure that it doesn't fall victim to Twilight Princess and its bad aging. As while I love Twilight Princess it has aged terribly unlike Wind Waker, Skyward Sword and Breath of the Wild which focuses on style and as a result will age very nicely.

I'm just curious what the ideal art style would be for Golden Sun in the modern age

I'm sort of torn between two styles. 1. What you see in Octopath Traveler, which would be more conventional style with super polish added to it but done in the Golden Sun art style. That would be fantastic. 2. Full 3d, similar to Dragon Quest XI or like you said and art style similar to BotW where you can make a lot more interesting puzzles and maybe incorporate platforming if you really wanted to? If you did it like this, I imagine they could get really creative with possible psynergy and secrets. It's actually hard to know what the development team might go for considering that they've attempted a 2.5D with all the Golden Suns basically due to hardware limitations. Having said that, now I need to see fully scripted glorious weapon releases and summons they way they were originally intended on high fidelity systems.

Rethuic · Sep 17, 2018

The summons are probably what would cause them to go full 3D. For the spectacle of it.

Xithyl_kykorl · Sep 17, 2018

Tetiro said:
Here's a thought. Let's assume a Golden Sun game gets announced for Switch and it is 3D again. How would you want the style to look?

For me, I'd want it to look like the concept/official art but uses cel-shading (though not over the top) akin to Breath of the Wild or Xenoblade 2 to ensure that it doesn't fall victim to Twilight Princess and its bad aging. As while I love Twilight Princess it has aged terribly unlike Wind Waker, Skyward Sword and Breath of the Wild which focuses on style and as a result will age very nicely.

I'm just curious what the ideal art style would be for Golden Sun in the modern age

I'd personally rather have a style that is similar, but far less bloom on everything. Shade things a little bit more to give a surreal touch, yet, shade things enough to have enough depth in the world to have all the little intricacies in which you'd use psynergy still pop out enough to be recognizable, but make enough sense to be a part of that location as an entirety. I'd be hoping for 3D personally, but psynergy more akin to the originals. (minus Grip. Grip can come back, that was great).

TempestSurge · Sep 17, 2018

Rethuic said:
To be honest, I do think Vergeben does have actual sources, but they wouldn't be able to hear everything. His sources are probably people who were best buds with people who actually work on some characters or people who've heard it talked about. If Verge was a fake after all this stuff, then that is some godly luck. Otherwise, I think he's gotten a lot of stuff from sources. I do think there is a possibility of him being wrong on something, the Minecraft thing in particular. Another thing to note is that other leakers have leaked/guessed King K correctly, the Neogaf leak that said 6 more newcomers (excluding Ridley) in particular.

Its not necessarily about Verge being wrong, it's about him not knowing everything. The thing with Verge is he leaks in pieces, vs the Gematsu style of having this long list of character names that are in. If he was able to miss 4 out of 5 characters in one smash direct, safe to say it can happen again.

It depends on what his sources tell him so he's relaying info that's given to him. And things like Gen 7 rep or Square rep aren't as specific as outright saying Simon, Ridley, Ken. What's the difference between knowing exact specifics of characters to just hinting vaguely? It's inconsistent to say the least. And I'm doubting Isaac's name is blantant ISAAC.

True Blue Warrior · Sep 17, 2018

Updated.

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XenoWarriorX · Sep 17, 2018

I know this is Vergeben, and he really isn't someone that hasn't raised our chances.

However, I want you to all to keep this quote in mind.

"Because I sign on here and have notifications I have gotten to the point where I don't even bother checking most tags anymore because I get tagged at least 30 times a day asking me things that I either have already answered, can't answer, or ask if their favorite or most wanted character is in like somehow I can will that into existence or the knowledge of it if I haven't heard anything on my end about them yet for or against whatever character it is.

After too long you have to realize how annoying and stupid that would be.

I will put it in the most simple way that I can that I already have before but will say it again because it seems like I have to.

If I know something, I will say say it unless I am instructed not to say it."

He still doesn't know that these are the last ones. All he knows is that these are in the game.

Edit: another one.

"Absence of evidence is not always evidence of absence.
I can't personally confirm or deny if Incineroar and Ken are all that's left for the launch roster, only that they will be in the game.

Me knowing about a Square Enix character and Minecraft content that could "possibly" be a character and not just a stage/assist trophy either deconfirms the box theory or supports it and means DLC.
I currently can't say for sure because if I don't know, I can't exactly claim that now can I?

Whether or not it relates to those things, I did hear the game will be supported after launch."

God I hope Isaac gets into base. It would be all the more better since at least we would know he didn't pass up Isaac for base.

TempestSurge · Sep 17, 2018

Though I think box theory trumps Verge in the smash speculation scene given that two characters left is already conflicting with Verge knowing of three, Ken/Gen7/Square.

It's even being put over the Corocoro magazine that people were at first clamouring for it to leak something during the delay and now that it brought 108 to light, it must be a mistake or typo lol.

Even if Verge said 'jrpg protag', box theory will still be considered the end all be all until Isaac or Bandana Dee characters not spoken of by Verge throws things for a loop.

Edit: Though Isaac will be ideal since new stage and series IP.

Q-Long · Sep 17, 2018

I also think the Belmonts and King K Rool would not have been revealed in one direct if there was simply only Incineroar and Ken left.

Yes, that was an explosion of hype, but that was August, they still had September, October, November, and maybe Pre release December (I think Black Friday or December 1st are perfect dates). The hype of the August Smash direct can only last so long. They would need them spread out.

An expected Pokemon rep and an expected echo will not create hype / discussion that will last for 3 months. Unless they release pre-release trailers for DLC characters. That makes no sense. I think we have 2-3 uniques left and 3-4 echoes.

From March to September we have gotten Inkling, Ridley, Simon, King K Rool, and Isabelle. The echoes are Richter, Chrom, and Dark Samus. Sakurai said we wouldn't be getting many newcomers. But I think he met unique characters. In an interview for Melee, he mentioned that the development time for the 6 clones was shorter than 1 unique character.

Melee received 14 newcomers. Brawl received 11. Smash 4 (base game) received 13 (lemme know if I did my math wrong lol). Ultimate receiving 7-8 in the base game would be pretty modest in comparison when not counting echoes, which are easier to make. I think 2 to 3 characters will help carry the hype and speculation over until release. Course, that leaves a space for two uniques if Incineroar (that feel when Corsola will never be playable) is true.

Rethuic · Sep 17, 2018

I think the thing about there being 108 stages actually raises our chances slightly. One stage that was actually made by some fans is Venus Lighthouse. Nintendo knows Isaac is popular and he's even been hinted at by Sakurai. I recall that Verge did once say that people underestimate Isaac's popularity, so he might've hinted at Isaac there. If Isaac is confirmed, box theory would end and other Smash threads might be more hopeful, particularly the Geno thread. If Isaac gets in, why not Geno? I am positive Isaac has a huge chance. Billybo, raise Isaac's chance to 90%. You know you want to.

Mehdow · Sep 17, 2018

Q-Long said:
Melee received 14 newcomers. Brawl received 11. Smash 4 (base game) received 13 (lemme know if I did my math wrong lol). Ultimate receiving 7-8 in the base game would be pretty modest in comparison when not counting echoes, which are easier to make. I think 2 to 3 characters will help carry the hype and speculation over until release. Course, that leaves a space for two uniques if Incineroar (that feel when Corsola will never be playable) is true.

I totally agree with you. I understand that Ultimate has A LOT of interesting things (like every previous character, new modes, even looks like a new story mode), but if I were Sakurai and I didn't get enough dev time to make new characters, I would -includeIsaacAnywayForSure- add a lot of new echoes just to keep that amount of new characters as previous games.... I would know that having just these characters plus Incineroar and Ken would make players a little much upset about it.

Undella2 · Sep 17, 2018

Why do a lot of people seem to take the box theory as "proven fact", anyway?

It's a promotional image for a game that release a few months from now likely made from guesswork.

I would have to say that a news source given information straight from Nintendo (CoroCoro) is vastly more trustworthy.

Rethuic · Sep 17, 2018

Mehdow said:
I totally agree with you. I understand that Ultimate has A LOT of interesting things (like every previous character, new modes, even looks like a new story mode), but if I were Sakurai and I didn't get enough dev time to make new characters, I would -includeIsaacAnywayForSure- add a lot of new echoes just to keep that amount of new characters as previous games.... I would know that having just these characters plus Incineroar and Ken would make players a little much upset about it.

Maybe not quite upset, but definitely disappointed. "Oh a new pokemon and a new echo. That's it?" Yes, some would be mad, but more would be disappointed.

Tetiro · Sep 17, 2018

Q-Long said:
I also think the Belmonts and King K Rool would not have been revealed in one direct if there was simply only Incineroar and Ken left.

Yes, that was an explosion of hype, but that was August, they still had September, October, November, and maybe Pre release December (I think Black Friday or December 1st are perfect dates). The hype of the August Smash direct can only last so long. They would need them spread out.

An expected Pokemon rep and an expected echo will not create hype / discussion that will last for 3 months. Unless they release pre-release trailers for DLC characters. That makes no sense. I think we have 2-3 uniques left and 3-4 echoes.

From March to September we have gotten Inkling, Ridley, Simon, King K Rool, and Isabelle. The echoes are Richter, Chrom, and Dark Samus. Sakurai said we wouldn't be getting many newcomers. But I think he met unique characters. In an interview for Melee, he mentioned that the development time for the 6 clones was shorter than 1 unique character.

Melee received 14 newcomers. Brawl received 11. Smash 4 (base game) received 13 (lemme know if I did my math wrong lol). Ultimate receiving 7-8 in the base game would be pretty modest in comparison when not counting echoes, which are easier to make. I think 2 to 3 characters will help carry the hype and speculation over until release. Course, that leaves a space for two uniques if Incineroar (that feel when Corsola will never be playable) is true.

I agree with this. And looking at what statistics have shown (and were spot on about September only having 1 character), we are still on track to having 13-15 characters. But throughout everything so far, the stats kept a sturdy 7-8 characters. I believe there are up to 3 more unique characters and 3 more echoes. But no more than that.

Also, every Smash Direct had two unique fighters (or an oldie but heavily refined) confirmed

April 8th 2014 - Greninja and Charizard (went solo)
October 23, 2014 - Bowser Jr and Mewtwo (first DLC character)
June 14, 2015 - Ryu and Roy (Became a semi-clone)
December 15, 2015 - Corrin and Bayonetta
August 8th, 2018 - Simon and King K Rool

So considering there will no doubt be a Smash Direct, we are guaranteed at least 2 more unique newcomers. All we must hope for is that October does indeed get a standard Nintendo Direct. If that happens with no expansion on Spirits Mode, the box theory is completely destroyed.

Flynn.Scifo · Sep 17, 2018

I'd rather have exquisite 2D like Rayman origins / legends. If we go the 3D route something like the incoming Spyro remake would look sumptuous. I'm also a die hard fan of cell-shading a la wind waker.

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