Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Kisae]

Okay I catched up the pages until now (with my job it is quite difficult to find the time ahahah).

So yeah I would prefer remakes or remaster better than a DD sequel. It has been too long since that cliffhanger, getting gs4 now will just close more the coffin.

Like many of you said, introducing some lore that appears in DD in the remakes could be cool, idk some random npc could talk about an ancient civilization that used some steam machines to cross mountains etc it can be interesting.

For the smash side, I don't see Isaac being the 5th FP character at all. I think he has a better shot for dlc, hoping that Sakurai will promote them in the same game. Now it is wait and see time.

And I am sure Nintendo is aware of the fans requesting Golden Sun. With the Rathalos Pic, the reaction at NY direct, the trademark renewal made numerous tweets about the subject before the direct and the first Golden Sunday. I really doubt they didn't notice us at all. I mean Isaac opened the AT section in the last direct before Ultimate releases, but to me it was something to be proud to see our boy opening the section.

Anyways I talk too much but be confident the sun will rise again \o/

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

I agree. The worst that will happen is Isaac is not on the list and we all assume it is due to "deconfirmation"

I have already voted

PapaGenos and Sabi both think it's possible for assist trophies to be promoted after the Fighter's Pass is done so I don't think that will be a problem tbh

 

[Pinguino21v]

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That's bad news for us. It seems we will mostly get third parties once again. I still believe Isaac is one of the most likely first party, but if there's none because of the focus on third parties, that will still be a failure for us.

 

[Billybae10K]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

That's bad news for us. It seems we will mostly get third parties once again. I still believe Isaac is one of the most likely first party, but if there's none because of the focus on third parties, that will still be a failure for us.

I'd say wait for the full column first, just so we have some context to all of these quotes.

That being said, Nintendo did decide the fighter pass for DLC and they were all third party, so I can see why your line of thought would go down that route. Still, Camelot technically is a company that hasn't collaborated with Smash in terms of a fighter, they're not in the trademark section of the game, for example. So we could still be in with a shot, just barely.

I think it's better to keep up hope for all the AT's getting a potential upgrade, if only because it really helps to broaden people's perspectives in the speculation scene. Part of the reason why I dropped off of speculation myself was because the fans are just so damn brutal with their rules, something even I was guilty of at one point.

At this point, I'm happy to keep my options open, even if it hurts me in the end, because I'd rather hope and be dashed at the finish line, than sit idly back and watch from the sidelines.

 

[Kalaam]

Tbh it would be stupid to keep ignoring 1st party character, it will quickly become stale.

 

[StrawHatX]

Tbh it would be stupid to keep ignoring 1st party character, it will quickly become stale.

I just find it hard to believe that Nintendo would not want any first party characters in the DLC. Completely understand wanting to build better relationships with other companies, but you want to promote your own games as well considering you don’t have to share the profits.

I fully expect some first party characters mixed in with a few more third parties. Now, will those first party characters be a Sword/Shield Pokemon or a Three Houses FE character? Who knows? I would hope not, but it’s very possible.

 

[Tetiro]

I would not worry as it was most likely Nintendo having a hand in designing the Smash Wii U DLC

Plus the 1st round of DLC would have been decided ages before the November Direct reaction. Third party agreements require lawyers, agreements and these things take time.

Since that decision, the November incident occurred. Which led to a lot of disappointment by the fans. Unless they were living under a rock Nintendo heard.

Speaking of that Direct, Piranha Plant being announced that day shows things get planned for DLC way in advance. So looking at the recent announcement for more DLC, it could be anytime between 2015 and now they made that decision.

Realistically, it is likely 2018 onwards they made the call. Otherwise the Fighters Pass would not have existed and would just be standard DLC.

A terrible thing would be if Nintendo did not listen to the fans by the 2nd round of DLC's end and the next Smash's base game release. Then that would be ignorance

 

[RetrogamerMax]

The dream is back on. Isaac is pretty much the number one boy for me now that Banjo is in (probably tied with Geno depending on the day). Seeing everyone lose their minds over in the Banjo thread was really something, and I'm here to say I wanna see that again.

If... No when Isaac makes it in, I'm going to come here and give all you guys a big hug and bask in your victory with y'all.

 

[Kalaam]

If it's full 3rd party with no character requested by fans I'm done with Smash until the next one x) But sakurai says he wants to please the fans so I'll trust him.

 

[StrawHatX]

If it's full 3rd party with no character requested by fans I'm done with Smash until the next one x) But sakurai says he wants to please the fans so I'll trust him.

Well... the thing is a lot of fans do want third party characters like Crash, Sora, Shantae, etc. So even if we only get third party characters again he is still pleasing fans even if we don’t get first party fan favorites like Isaac and Dixie.

Even my boy Geno is technically a third party character. So who knows..

I do believe we’ll get first party characters. Like I said, it’s highly unlikely ALL of the DLC characters will only be third party.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

If it's full 3rd party with no character requested by fans I'm done with Smash until the next one x) But sakurai says he wants to please the fans so I'll trust him.

With that sentence in mind, I'm sure Sakurai will give us characters like Isaac, Geno, Shantae, Shovel Knight, Bandana Dee, Waluigi, ect. Because otherwise, he shouldn't throw the sentence "What the fans want" lightly.

 

[Tetiro]

With that sentence in mind, I'm sure Sakurai will give us characters like Isaac, Geno, Shantae, Shovel Knight, Bandana Dee, Waluigi, ect. Because otherwise, he shouldn't throw the sentence "What the fans want" lightly.

Where did he say that?

 

[SNEKeater]

With that sentence in mind, I'm sure Sakurai will give us characters like Isaac, Geno, Shantae, Shovel Knight, Bandana Dee, Waluigi, ect. Because otherwise, he shouldn't throw the sentence "What the fans want" lightly.

Honestly I wouldn't expect a lineup like that or a similar one for the next DLC fighters beyond number 5.
For good and bad there's a good quantity of third party characters requested. So anything can happen, I would bet most of the next DLC will be third party, and if they're all third party I wouldn't be surprised.

I mean I want Isaac but I don't think he has a great chance, but at least has one more chance because fighter 5 is obviously third party. What we should do is support Isaac loud and clear even if his chances aren't the best.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Where did he say that?

I think it was during the Banjo & Kazooie presentation when he also brought up "We'll probably never have a chance to bring this many worlds together."

 

[Midget Master]

The main thing to me is that this DLC has not yet been fully locked in, nor is there a definitive end date. So long as those things are true, it is to our benefit to make noise for Isaac. Yeah, 3rd parties are always gonna be "sexier", but there's plenty of strong demand for first party characters, and ultimately it is going to be about the fans.

Banjo was as close to a pure fanservice pick as we've gotten and are likely to get outside of a possible Geno, but he crafts a compelling case that those longtime Smash never-evers are absolutely on the table even as paid DLC. And as that list has been checked off, Isaac is rising higher and higher - and one can make a case that he is now if not at, then certainly near, the top of it.

Even though he's technically a third party character, the demand for Banjo comes mostly from people who played with him on Nintendo. Other similar third party characters who are highly requested have a similar relationship. Geno, of course, only had his game on the SNES. Tales of Symphonia is heavily associated with the Gamecube, and thus it is Lloyd and not the infinitely more popular (amongst Tales fans) Yuri Lowell who Sakurai points to as a potential Tales rep. The Nintendo connection matters, and I think that Banjo is proof Nintendo are savvy enough to know it's not the mere fact that they're third parties that makes people want the characters they do. So I think that even if they do pursue more third parties, they're not going to neglect the things close to home that people have supported and cheered for all this time.

And I mean, seriously. You saw that Waluigi stuff. I think they know.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

The main thing to me is that this DLC has not yet been fully locked in, nor is there a definitive end date. So long as those things are true, it is to our benefit to make noise for Isaac. Yeah, 3rd parties are always gonna be "sexier", but there's plenty of strong demand for first party characters, and ultimately it is going to be about the fans.

Banjo was as close to a pure fanservice pick as we've gotten and are likely to get outside of a possible Geno, but he crafts a compelling case that those longtime Smash never-evers are absolutely on the table even as paid DLC. And as that list has been checked off, Isaac is rising higher and higher - and one can make a case that he is now if not at, then certainly near, the top of it.

Even though he's technically a third party character, the demand for him comes mostly from people who played with him on Nintendo. Other similar third party characters who are highly requested have a similar relationship. Geno, of course, only had his game on the SNES. Tales of Symphonia is heavily associated with the Gamecube, and thus it is Lloyd and not the infinitely more popular (amongst Tales fans) Yuri Lowell who Sakurai points to as a potential Tales rep. The Nintendo connection matters, and I think that Banjo is proof Nintendo are savvy enough to know it's not the mere fact that they're third parties that makes people want the characters they do. So I think that even if they do pursue more third parties, they're not going to neglect the things close to home that people have supported and cheered for all this time.

And I mean, seriously. You saw that Waluigi stuff. I think they know.

Banjo & Kazooie got in as DLC so I'm highly expecting at least another highly requested fan favorite or two in the DLC lineup.

 

[Nimbostratus]

Something sounds inherently odd about the statement that Nintendo deciding the DLC is bad for Nintendo-owned characters. I mean, I get the idea of wanting to building relations with other companies, but surely at some point someone says, “Hey, wouldn’t it be cool if we didn’t have to buy any rights or share earnings for one of these releases, right?”

... Right?

I don’t know. I have to hold hope as there are very few third party characters I want after Banjo. If these new DLC characters are truly for the fans, surely at least someone will be first party, as that’s where the bulk of the most requested characters are (even if current demand is a bit skewed third party since too many have resigned themselves to the idea that we should expect only that). Saying any DLC additions must be third party is taking fanmade rules to a new level considering there is already a precedent for first party characters () Only problem would be if Nintendo totally buys into Assist Trophy/Spirit = Hard Disconfirmation, but ehh.

 

[Guynamednelson]

DLC seasons among video games are never exact copies of one another. Season 1 might also be the highest budget one, and you know how you get around a lower budget? With first parties.

 

[Pwnapplez]

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That's bad news for us. It seems we will mostly get third parties once again. I still believe Isaac is one of the most likely first party, but if there's none because of the focus on third parties, that will still be a failure for us.

Doesn't mean you shouldn't stop support. Even if we don't get our boy in smash we can still get a 4th game or a HD remake.

 

[DogManStar]

I don’t think it’s over yet, we know Sakurai loves collaborating with third party companies but if he wants to satisfy fans, we’re still one of the top requests. I wouldn’t be shocked if Isaac doesn’t show up but it wouldn’t feel right after what they’ve told us lmao

 

[Gioka]

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That's bad news for us. It seems we will mostly get third parties once again. I still believe Isaac is one of the most likely first party, but if there's none because of the focus on third parties, that will still be a failure for us.

I understand how this can come around as disheartening, but it is way too soon for giving up. Certainly, Nintendo chose the ones in the first fighter pass to be all third parties but that doesn't necessarily apply to this extra DLC, I think they'd also want a bit of that Smash marketing to their own IPs so I can see them pulling some first party recent characters, now regarding fan requests I'd like to believe Sakurai will push for those, I am also hoping Nintendo is actually taking action regarding the backlash from various characters from base game and using that to see how there are potential selling numbers behind them (notably Waluigi, Isaac, Rex). So let's hope. And also let's wait for the whole column to be translated

 

[DogManStar]

I think Nintendo would probably want to have more than just third parties even if Sakurai prefers them at this point. So we will just have to wait and see which ones get picked. I feel like Isaac is at the top of the stack so hopefully he would be one of the ones to get in

 

[Bassoonist]

Honestly I wouldn't expect a lineup like that or a similar one for the next DLC fighters beyond number 5.
For good and bad there's a good quantity of third party characters requested. So anything can happen, I would bet most of the next DLC will be third party, and if they're all third party I wouldn't be surprised.

I mean I want Isaac but I don't think he has a great chance, but at least has one more chance because fighter 5 is obviously third party. What we should do is support Isaac loud and clear even if his chances aren't the best.

Yeah, I guarantee that the post-Fighter's Pass DLC will not be a line of fan requested characters, if we even get one.

We all have this dream of the post-Fighter's Pass DLC just being a string of highly requested characters. We think "If Waluigi gets upgraded, then Isaac is very likely to follow!", but, that's just not how this works. In all likelihood it would be one character that gets upgraded from AT status (if that even happens to begin with), and that would be it. Just like for Smash 4 DLC we had high hopes for Ballot picks, but then only a single character got added that they credited to the ballot.

And now we have this. Nintendo decides, just like the Fighter's Pass. The characters are focused on collaborations. Just like the Fighter's Pass. If even one highly-requested first party character makes it, I'm going to be surprised at this point. Things are looking even more dire than before. Sorry everyone.

 

[Midget Master]

I mean, I get it's by no means a slam dunk. But more dire than before? Before, it was literally impossible. Now, we don't know what to expect.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

To be fair if Sakurai does want to promote assist trophies or spirits he won't outright hint at it publicly, he'd obviously want it to be a surprise. While I am preparing for majority of the DLC to be third parties I don't believe this hurts our chances that much, they can still squeeze some big first party names here and there if they are going to do this for a while. Just prepare for the worst and hope for the best as well as keeping the demand up for Isaac to be a fighter and for Golden Sun as a series to come back

 

[Gioka]

Yeah, I guarantee that the post-Fighter's Pass DLC will not be a line of fan requested characters, if we even get one.

We all have this dream of the post-Fighter's Pass DLC just being a string of highly requested characters. We think "If Waluigi gets upgraded, then Isaac is very likely to follow!", but, that's just not how this works. In all likelihood it would be one character that gets upgraded from AT status (if that even happens to begin with), and that would be it. Just like for Smash 4 DLC we had high hopes for Ballot picks, but then only a single character got added that they credited to the ballot.

And now we have this. Nintendo decides, just like the Fighter's Pass. The characters are focused on collaborations. Just like the Fighter's Pass. If even one highly-requested first party character makes it, I'm going to be surprised at this point. Things are looking even more dire than before. Sorry everyone.

I don't think that is remotely the same thing. Yes, this is not great and we have to be prepared for getting nothing else (which in the end doesn't change much for us but keeping the efforts of pushing publicly may change Golden Sun's fate in the end) but Smash 4 was a very special case because of how bad Wii U sold. They probably wanted originally to use the ballot more for DLC but then saw how sales weren't picking up at all and took the decision to save that info for the development of Ultimate, Bayonetta was just what they put out there so people wouldn't go like "we didn't get anything, what the hell".

As I said, even if they keep collaborations going further with third party, that doesn't mean Nintendo can't throw some first party too. Whether those will be fan request or marketing push is what we wouldn't know yet.

 

[Undella2]

I just don't really get why there are so many third-parties if smash is supposed to be filled with "Nintendo-all-stars".

Characters like Banjo and Mega Man or possible newcomers like Geno and Lloyd make sense, as they've been associated with Nintendo consoles enough that some people may even think they're full Nintendo characters.

But Joker? Snake? Cloud? Those are all characters that are more associated with the Playstation. They're fun characters, don't get me wrong, but they just don't really fit for a Nintendo-based fighting game.

In my opinion, at least.

If they want more third-parties in the game, I'd really prefer if they were more Nintendo-based than Xbox/Playstation-based.

Though I want more first-parties more than any third-party, of course.

 

[Xenigma]

It would be disappointing if the extended DLC is all third parties, and it sure sounds like this column will be suggesting as much, but I don't think that's the major takeaway. For fans of Isaac and Waluigi and whomever else, it's that these characters have gone from impossible back to possible again. Even if you don't consider them likely, that's still a heck of a lot better than where we were before, and while we all have our pet favorites, adding even one highly-requested Nintendo character here could do a lot to raise our spirits both in the short term and for whatever comes next for Smash.

 

[DogManStar]

As someone who doesn’t really want any third parties at the moment (besides Lloyd and maybe someone with an outside chance like Quote) I really hope we get more first parties this time even though Sakurai seems to want third parties again. Also, it just feels weird getting so many third parties like this in a Nintendo crossover...

 

[SonicLink125]

It would be so weird if I get Doom Guy, Sora and in a weird miracle, Juno/Vela from Jet Force Gemini (or a Mii costume of them at least) but not get Isaac. I wouldn’t know what to do with myself. lol

 

[StrawHatX]

Even if we don’t get Isaac I’d like to see more love for Nintendo franchises like Star Fox, Zelda, Earthbound, Kirby, F-Zero, etc. Other series in Smash that only have a couple of characters represented.

 

[Organization XIII]

Yeah, I guarantee that the post-Fighter's Pass DLC will not be a line of fan requested characters, if we even get one.

We all have this dream of the post-Fighter's Pass DLC just being a string of highly requested characters. We think "If Waluigi gets upgraded, then Isaac is very likely to follow!", but, that's just not how this works. In all likelihood it would be one character that gets upgraded from AT status (if that even happens to begin with), and that would be it. Just like for Smash 4 DLC we had high hopes for Ballot picks, but then only a single character got added that they credited to the ballot.

And now we have this. Nintendo decides, just like the Fighter's Pass. The characters are focused on collaborations. Just like the Fighter's Pass. If even one highly-requested first party character makes it, I'm going to be surprised at this point. Things are looking even more dire than before. Sorry everyone.

Dude what are you even talking about? First, they credited 3 characters as being from the ballot and a few others as also having popularity in a specific region. Second, Waluigi getting promoted absolutely raises our chances because AT promotion for DLC is no longer is theoretical it's got full-on precedent, which in every way help us. We are still in a great place for being DLC and even if we miss out again making our voices heard now is how we don't end up as an AT in future releases.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Even if we don’t get Isaac I’d like to see more love for Nintendo franchises like Star Fox, Zelda, Earthbound, Kirby, F-Zero, etc. Other series in Smash that only have a couple of characters represented.

Besides Isaac I really, REALLY would like to see Krystal, Skull Kid, and Zero break out of the Assist Trophy prison.

 

[Opossum]

I just don't really get why there are so many third-parties if smash is supposed to be filled with "Nintendo-all-stars".

Characters like Banjo and Mega Man or possible newcomers like Geno and Lloyd make sense, as they've been associated with Nintendo consoles enough that some people may even think they're full Nintendo characters.

But Joker? Snake? Cloud? Those are all characters that are more associated with the Playstation. They're fun characters, don't get me wrong, but they just don't really fit for a Nintendo-based fighting game.

In my opinion, at least.

If they want more third-parties in the game, I'd really prefer if they were more Nintendo-based than Xbox/Playstation-based.

Though I want more first-parties more than any third-party, of course.

The important thing to remember is that the "Nintendo All-Stars" moniker hasn't been used since Melee (and correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it was even used there in Japan).

And even then, I'd hardly call characters like Ness, Captain Falcon, or the Ice Climbers "Nintendo All-Stars," even back in the Melee and 64 days.

 

[tbuster766]

https://twitter.com/nokoloc/status/1171820788367986689

Music to our ears. I think regardless of Isaac's chances we must not falter on our support for him in smash and for a Golden Sun revival

 

[SonicLink125]

https://twitter.com/nokoloc/status/1171820788367986689

Music to our ears. I think regardless of Isaac's chances we must not falter on our support for him in smash and for a Golden Sun revival

If anything, this tells us to support Isaac to maximum overdrive!

 

[RetrogamerMax]

The important thing to remember is that the "Nintendo All-Stars" moniker hasn't been used since Melee (and correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it was even used there in Japan).

And even then, I'd hardly call characters like Ness, Captain Falcon, or the Ice Climbers "Nintendo All-Stars," even back in the Melee and 64 days.

Call me bias if you will, but honestly I feel like the only characters that are true Nintendo All Stars in the roster are the main cast members of the franchises of the Original 8.

Mario: , , ,

DK: , ,

Yoshi:

Zelda: , ,

Metroid: /,

Star Fox: , , ,

Pokemon: , , ,

Kirby: , ,

Wario: (He isn't part of the Original 8, but he is definitely a Nintendo All Star.)

 

[Guynamednelson]

Back then maybe, but Eevee has taken over since then.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Back then maybe, but Eevee has taken over since then.

I don't know... I think Jiggs is still iconic and really popular in Japan.

 

[Opossum]

Call me bias if you will, but honestly I feel like the only characters that are true Nintendo All Stars in the roster are the main cast members of the franchises of the Original 8.

Mario: , , ,

DK: , ,

Yoshi:

Zelda: , ,

Metroid: /,

Star Fox: , , ,

Pokemon: , , ,

Kirby: , ,

Wario: (He isn't part of the Original 8, but he is definitely a Nintendo All Star.)

I...couldn't disagree more, really.

Mainly because Animal Crossing, Fire Emblem, Splatoon, and arguably Pikmin are much bigger than Star Fox is these days.