Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[TempestSurge]

Square-Enix having a character is in no way confirmed. It has a fair chance of happening, but considering the leaks were an extremely long time ago and nothing has shown up, it looks less likely each day. We are very clueless right now on what their plans are.

That'd be quite the bamboozle after being one of the characters that Verge initially talked about. I remember when it was so expected for it to be Geno lol. Of course I'm now so very out of the loop as far as what's even being talked about now with rumors and all. Though it'll be nice having that slot be a surprise and not expected if there's no Square Enix rep.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That'd be quite the bamboozle after being one of the characters that Verge initially talked about. I remember when it was so expected for it to be Geno lol. Of course I'm now so very out of the loop as far as what's even being talked about now with rumors and all. Though it'll be nice having that slot be a surprise and not expected if there's no Square Enix rep.

Well, he only heard rumors of it. Just like with Minecraft content. Though to be honest, Minecraft content sounds way more believable at this time. SE is very stingy, as proven time and time again. We literally got the Halo Mash-Up Pack on the Switch too. Combined with a Creeper 3DS, and you get the idea that Microsoft definitely doesn't have a huge issue with Minecraft content. They also don't seem to care about exclusives much anymore, or at least via cameos. Plus, there is a rumor for a Halo Anniversary Pack coming to Switch. Minecraft is just a huge gun for MS, so having that have some content in Smash is more of an inevitable case here, to be clear. I do think Steve is likely, but that's more of his major gaming icon status than just MS being chummy.

 

[Tetiro]

Well, he only heard rumors of it. Just like with Minecraft content. Though to be honest, Minecraft content sounds way more believable at this time. SE is very stingy, as proven time and time again. We literally got the Halo Mash-Up Pack on the Switch too. Combined with a Creeper 3DS, and you get the idea that Microsoft definitely doesn't have a huge issue with Minecraft content. They also don't seem to care about exclusives much anymore, or at least via cameos. Plus, there is a rumor for a Halo Anniversary Pack coming to Switch. Minecraft is just a huge gun for MS, so having that have some content in Smash is more of an inevitable case here, to be clear. I do think Steve is likely, but that's more of his major gaming icon status than just MS being chummy.

While I'm not a fan of Steve as a playable character (I don't think he has a moveset potential), I would absolutely love to see a Minecraft stage. If they did it similar to the Mario Maker stage, it could be a really special stage.

For me personally, Minecraft was more about the world than the characters.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

While I'm not a fan of Steve as a playable character (I don't think he has a moveset potential), I would absolutely love to see a Minecraft stage. If they did it similar to the Mario Maker stage, it could be a really special stage.

For me personally, Minecraft was more about the world than the characters.

Every character has moveset potential. As long as they have any kind of action they perform. That... doesn't make a lot of sense, to be honest. Though I can get why some doesn't believe he'd make an interesting moveset(which I think is more what you're fully trying to say instead, which makes a lot more sense. Not every character looks fun and interesting to others). I won't really go into it much beyond that.

To me, if a franchise has a possible character that not only is their mascot, but can easily represent the core gameplay(though my rule of thumb... which is also so far what Smash follows, is that core gameplay is more important than simply being a mascot. Though there's more than one kind of core gameplay too), you have an easy possible character. Shouldn't matter what the franchise is in that regard. It doesn't mean it will happen, either(poor Isaac, but at least he has an updated version of his previous gameplay role?). There's a lot of franchises without a playable character that could easily have one(actually, I'm trying to think of a franchise in Smash that couldn't have had a playable character, as none of them lack any moveset potential, so...).

I get what you mean with the "this is the part of the game that resonates with me", though. Either way, we're severely unlikely to get a stage at all unless it's without a playable Steve. We at best otherwise could get a few Spirits or Mii costumes for Minecraft. There's been no signs of individual Stages at all either. We also haven't gotten new AT's, but those can at least be tied to the franchises being released. We weren't told about new spirits(beyond the Fighter spirit) for any DLC characters. Stages have had a more specific advertisement, as part of the Fighter's Pass only. The closest thing to an individual stage is moreso the Stage Builder than anything else. Considering Sakurai remade the stages from scratch, and we've gotten under 10 all-new ones... I wouldn't bank on any individual stage DLC at this point. But hey, Stage Builder exists?

 

[TempestSurge]

Well, he only heard rumors of it. Just like with Minecraft content. Though to be honest, Minecraft content sounds way more believable at this time. SE is very stingy, as proven time and time again. We literally got the Halo Mash-Up Pack on the Switch too. Combined with a Creeper 3DS, and you get the idea that Microsoft definitely doesn't have a huge issue with Minecraft content. They also don't seem to care about exclusives much anymore, or at least via cameos. Plus, there is a rumor for a Halo Anniversary Pack coming to Switch. Minecraft is just a huge gun for MS, so having that have some content in Smash is more of an inevitable case here, to be clear. I do think Steve is likely, but that's more of his major gaming icon status than just MS being chummy.

I did wonder whatever happened to all that talk of Minecraft content. Hope that rumor of Halo Anniversary is true. Halo's the reason I first bought my Xbox console, and then the next gen to follow the story. I sometimes find myself even rooting for Master Chief to be one of the slots in the Fighter Pass lol.

 

[FlawedAI]

Square-Enix having a character is in no way confirmed. It has a fair chance of happening, but considering the leaks were an extremely long time ago and nothing has shown up, it looks less likely each day. We are very clueless right now on what their plans are.

That doesn't change that fact that we still found the codenames for both Joker and the mystery character not three or four months ago. Remember, Bayonetta and Corrin had their stats entered before the Smash Ballot was even announced, meaning that it's still very likely the next character is "Brave", which is most likely Erdrick/some Dragon Quest character.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That doesn't change that fact that we still found the codenames for both Joker and the mystery character not three or four months ago. Remember, Bayonetta and Corrin had their stats entered before the Smash Ballot was even announced, meaning that it's still very likely the next character is "Brave", which is most likely Erdrick/some Dragon Quest character.

It doesn't matter. We have absolutely zero knowledge of who Brave is. He's not "most likely" this character. That's a very flawed theory that we lack any good evidence to go with. First, the codename doesn't have any similarities to Joker or Arsene's, which already establishes there's zero patterns here. Second, the stats give us zero clues.

The only thing it's most likely is that it's a character who legitimately connects to the codename of Brave in a meaningful manner. That's all we could seriously tell at best. Though I'm still waiting for an answer if there were codenames for the rest of the Persona 5 cast that made cameos among the stages and all. Also, Jane got scrapped as well, and that appears to be Kasumi, which doesn't seem to have any real connection.

We got nothing to go off of of note. What we do have is a few leakers who have heard Erdrick, but that really correlate whatsoever with Brave, which is an extremely mysterious codename that could just as easily be a weak one that could relate to just the fact the character is an hero at best. Which frankly I doubt, but with zero codename patterns we can tell(at best Arsena and Joker's codenames may be direct references to specific characters that they relate to. Jack Frost for Joker and Sherlock Holmes' Doyle, but that's kind of it. There's little in common beyond this factor, and that might not be why he was codenamed Jack either). That's how in the dark we are.

You know why most people on this forum believed Brave was Erdrick? It's cause leakers said so, but they had zero evidence for that, but just a basic theory that Brave is Yuusha, which isn't evidence as is. That's why they were so sure, and acted like they knew something. Less than 10 people have actual rumors that it's Erdrick by being told so. Most of the leakers and evidence by using Brave don't have any more clue that we actually do. There's a pretty reasonable chance it's not Edrick as well. He used to be likely, but learning more of the codenames shows it's far less simple. Besides, Brave is the only name whatsoever that cannot be tied to an actual character name, which is a very big deal in keeping it mysterious. Jack, Jane, Doyle, and Packun Flower are all character names of sorts. Brave literally is not. It's an all new codename style that doesn't tell us much. The stats don't either, since we cannot apply them meaningfully enough. Basically, the stats give us a window of sizes/speeds/etc. the character could be. But it doesn't give us a hard setting of how they will fully play, but purely a theory of how it could possibly work. That makes the so-called evidence extremely flawed. Besides that, stats have changed many times before the final version, meaning they likewise aren't that useful as data.

Basically, our evidence is very flawed and not that useful. The stats could just as easily work for Slime as well as Banjo Kazooie, who all could just as easily be tied to the name Brave if they wanted to(since we don't really have a consistent enough codename pattern to usefully predict their plans). There is no precedence for this kind of codename. The other previous codenames were actually way more clear in many ways. Or at least more tangible than this.

 

[KoopaSaki]

Well I attended megacon in Orlando today and here’s some photos of my in my Isaac cosplay. It was so much fun!

 

[MeatOfJustice]

Considering that SSBU recently became the most selling fighting game of all time, only doing DLC for ~1 year after release seems like a waste of potential to me.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Considering that SSBU recently became the most selling fighting game of all time, only doing DLC for ~1 year after release seems like a waste of potential to me.

Nah, making 15 characters and having none of them be Sans/Steve/Jonesy would make Nintendo lose 90 trillion dollars.

 

[FlawedAI]

Considering that SSBU recently became the most selling fighting game of all time, only doing DLC for ~1 year after release seems like a waste of potential to me.

Well, given that everyone was expecting Mario Odyssey DLC, and that never happened, we may be wrong about that. I sure hope we aren't, though.

 

[TempestSurge]

Well, given that everyone was expecting Mario Odyssey DLC, and that never happened, we may be wrong about that. I sure hope we aren't, though.

Yeah it seems totally possible that Nintendo gets their 5 planned fighter picks and that's as far as Nintendo wants to bother with Smash DLC. It would be nice to get another year of DLC so we could have another 'Cloud' moment where Sakurai mentioned how, hey a lot of people have been asking for a Final Fantasy character so here goes one. You never know what will be picked by Nintendo so a fan favorite that they've noticed people have been asking to be in Smash over the years could still happen, I just won't hold my breath for it.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Jonny Atma did it. Get ready.

Yeah it seems totally possible that Nintendo gets their 5 planned fighter picks and that's as far as Nintendo wants to bother with Smash DLC. It would be nice to get another year of DLC so we could have another 'Cloud' moment where Sakurai mentioned how, hey a lot of people have been asking for a Final Fantasy character so here goes one. You never know what will be picked by Nintendo so a fan favorite that they've noticed people have been asking to be in Smash over the years could still happen, I just won't hold my breath for it.

And yet there's still the 16 open slots that were found in WOL's files. Why are they even there if they're not for future-proofing?

The weirdest part is Sakurai having clearly said he would be as dedicated as humanly possible for the DLC. It's strange to say that unless the last few characters are so elaborate that they make Joker look easy to make. Plus he openly admired what other developers were doing, so why not do as good as them besides modesty or taking a vacation?

In any case, we can't determine that DLC will end until we see what happens when the pass' last character gets unveiled.

Well, given that everyone was expecting Mario Odyssey DLC, and that never happened, we may be wrong about that. I sure hope we aren't, though.

Yet it's Captain Toad that wound up getting DLC. Which Nintendo games get DLC and which ones don't is inconsistent and weird.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Jonny Atma did it. Get ready.

Johnny Atma's remixes are always on point

 

[clearandsweet]

It doesn't matter. We have absolutely zero knowledge of who Brave is. He's not "most likely" this character. That's a very flawed theory that we lack any good evidence to go with. First, the codename doesn't have any similarities to Joker or Arsene's, which already establishes there's zero patterns here. Second, the stats give us zero clues.

Basically, our evidence is very flawed and not that useful. The stats could just as easily work for Slime as well as Banjo Kazooie, who all could just as easily be tied to the name Brave if they wanted to.

Frankly, I thought that 101 weight, big slide when he turns around and the code name starting with B heavily indicated Banjo more than any other character. If I have code names for characters with English names for a team of Japanese-speaking people, using the first letter association seems more obvious and foolproof to me. Jack for Joker, Brave for Banjo. Even the amount of kata are the same. Ja-ku, Jo-ka, Bu-ra-vu, Ba-n-jo.

Well I attended megacon in Orlando today and here’s some photos of my in my Isaac cosplay. It was so much fun!

That Haruhi picture made my day. Thanks.

Considering that SSBU recently became the most selling fighting game of all time, only doing DLC for ~1 year after release seems like a waste of potential to me.

Splatoon 2 got 2 years, right? The president said they'd do more microtransactions/post release content and the game sold what like 14 million or something already. Add in that Sakurai has not said even a little that he's moving on or things are finished. And with the content/modes like stage builder and replay sharing out of the way, there's more time to focus on characters. Then you have to think about the long tail of Smash here. The switch has another 5 or so years to go, most like and it's doubtful that Sakurai would ever recreate Smash after Ultimate, just add on to it.

I'd bet there's a S2 of Smash Ult DLC. I'd even wager we could see it announced as early as E3 or an October direct. Hopefully it's not reserved spots for 3rd parties. Hopefully it's fan requests. But I'd bet massive money that it will happen.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Frankly, I thought that 101 weight, big slide when he turns around and the code name starting with B heavily indicated Banjo more than any other character. If I have code names for characters with English names for a team of Japanese-speaking people, using the first letter association seems more obvious and foolproof to me. Jack for Joker, Brave for Banjo. Even the amount of kata are the same. Ja-ku, Jo-ka, Bu-ra-vu, Ba-n-jo.

The whole "first letter thing" is a rather big stretch, honestly.

Though the kata is however an interesting(and distinct) view of it. Maybe that could be how they're going about it. I honestly doubt it's letter/sound-related myself, but Brave is such a mysterious word that I can't really dismiss that idea either.

 

[Deleted member]

....Yeah, I'm just gonna assume that I need a certain item or psynergy ability or something to beat Poseidon....

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

....Yeah, I'm just gonna assume that I need a certain item or psynergy ability or something to beat Poseidon....

...Do you want any hints?

 

[Deleted member]

...Do you want any hints?

Oh no, it's alright, I was just posting on how hilariously difficult (or, at that point, just impossible) the Poseidon fight is.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Oh no, it's alright, I was just posting on how hilariously difficult (or, at that point, just impossible) the Poseidon fight is.

Fair enough. Well, hope you get through it soon~

 

[Tetiro]

Sorry to keep you all waiting! I have been working very hard on the wig. And it's finally done! I went for a hybrid. I merged the Smash Bros 3d model and the iconic artwork style to make something unique. I will definitely be making more wigs in the future with craft foam. It was a lot of fun!

There was a problem fetching the tweet

EDIT: And for clarity, the wig is actually real and genuine. Surprisingly people were baffled whether or not it was a photoshop XD

Even my boyfriend got fooled into believing it was a photoshop

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

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Here's some awesome art of Felix as an Inkling

 

[Deleted member]

Lmao I went all the way to the Poseidon fight before even finding out that you can go through Air Rock.

I do like though how the game gives you a lot of freedom in where to explore.

 

[Pinguino21v]

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Here's some awesome art of Felix as an Inkling

That's the kind of fanart we need: crossover. It makes Golden Sun leak into other fanbase.

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[FlawedAI]

You know, I made this prediction on Twitter, but I honestly believe that there's like a 90+% chance of something Golden Sun related at E3. I personally believe we'll get a remake of TBS/TLA combined into one, but GS4 is also a possibility.

 

[Gioka]

You know, I made this prediction on Twitter, but I honestly believe that there's like a 90+% chance of something Golden Sun related at E3. I personally believe we'll get a remake of TBS/TLA combined into one, but GS4 is also a possibility.

I am really hoping we get anything GS related on E3, even just a title (like Metroid or Animal Crossing) would be excellent payoff for all the hype. I am trying to not get any expectations though because Nintendo can take weird decisions and we haven't heard anything from other big games in a while that will likely take a lot of the E3 presentation's time (Pokémon, Animal Crossing, Link's Awakening maybe).

I am very happy to see the art and cosplay! I'd love to make Isaac (and fem Isaac) sometime soon as well!

Also I don't remember if I posted the link here but in case any of you wants to grab one of the Golden Sun enamel pins here it is: https://www.etsy.com/listing/691777056/psynergy-golden-sun-enamel-pin

 

[FlawedAI]

I am really hoping we get anything GS related on E3, even just a title (like Metroid or Animal Crossing) would be excellent payoff for all the hype. I am trying to not get any expectations though because Nintendo can take weird decisions and we haven't heard anything from other big games in a while that will likely take a lot of the E3 presentation's time (Pokémon, Animal Crossing, Link's Awakening maybe).

Well, the thing is, I think that any Pokémon info will be done before E3 (as is tradition), and while Animal Crossing will definitely be talked about, I think this E3 will be much more like 2017: a barrage of reveals without a whole lot of detail, of which Golden Sun will fit into nicely. Heck, even if they pull a Metroid Prime 4 and just show a logo, anything will be the greatest gift anyone could bestow upon this fanbase. Plus, at least Smash character will be revealed at E3, that's like the easiest call to make ever. Who says it can't be Isaac?

 

[GoodGrief741]

Well, the thing is, I think that any Pokémon info will be done before E3 (as is tradition), and while Animal Crossing will definitely be talked about, I think this E3 will be much more like 2017: a barrage of reveals without a whole lot of detail, of which Golden Sun will fit into nicely. Heck, even if they pull a Metroid Prime 4 and just show a logo, anything will be the greatest gift anyone could bestow upon this fanbase. Plus, at least Smash character will be revealed at E3, that's like the easiest call to make ever. Who says it can't be Isaac?

Man I hope. I like nothing more than when Nintendo does barrages of reveals, because that's more chances for a revival of one of their so many wonderful IP.

 

[Deleted member]

All I want is either Golden Sun getting a remake at E3 announced (likely a Treehouse thing), or something for Ultimate that gives the more flexible Assist Trophies something to do at the same show.

I'm not picky.

 

[FlawedAI]

All I want is either Golden Sun getting a remake at E3 announced (likely a Treehouse thing), or something for Ultimate that gives the more flexible Assist Trophies something to do at the same show.

I'm not picky.

I sure hope anything GS-related isn't a Treehouse reveal. Honestly, I don't think that's likely, given that it'd be a revival of a beloved, but forgotten, series. Think about how series like F-Zero or Mother would be revealed if they got a new game. It'd be a huge event, right? I'm sure Golden Sun would be getting the same treatment. In fact, I'm willing to bet on how it's revealed: a 1-2 minute trailer near the middle to the end of the Direct showing the opening of the first game. At the end, it combines the logos of TBS and TLA to reveal a new remake of both: Golden Sun Legacy or something like that. (Also this could set up a Smash reveal later on.)

 

[MeatOfJustice]

I'd expect most of you to know due to the recent news, but Sakurai is not going to do another Smash Ballot, and he (and the rest of the dev team) doesn't know what the fan base wants without it. I don't know how you guys would push Isaac after this.

As for GS and E3, personally I think if a new GS was to be announced this year it would be on a later Direct, unless it was just a teaser.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'd expect most of you to know due to the recent news, but Sakurai is not going to do another Smash Ballot, and he (and the rest of the dev team) doesn't know what the fan base wants without it. I don't know how you guys would push Isaac after this.

It doesn't mean Isaac cannot get in, it just means using another ballot won't work. Why on earth should we stop pushing the character, though?

It should be noted that if Polarpanda's information is true, Nintendo didn't realize there was such fan demand for Isaac, and that he wasn't even considered for Smash Ultimate as playable. But this means Nintendo actually knows of his demand. And that's enough for him to have a chance.

 

[FlawedAI]

I'd expect most of you to know due to the recent news, but Sakurai is not going to do another Smash Ballot, and he (and the rest of the dev team) doesn't know what the fan base wants without it. I don't know how you guys would push Isaac after this.

As for GS and E3, personally I think if a new GS was to be announced this year it would be on a later Direct, unless it was just a teaser.

We be vocal online, just like Ridley fans and K. Rool fans were. Not to mention, we have the advantage of the Assist backlash on our side.

It doesn't mean Isaac cannot get in, it just means using another ballot won't work. Why on earth should we stop pushing the character, though?

It should be noted that if Polarpanda's information is true, Nintendo didn't realize there was such fan demand for Isaac, and that he wasn't even considered for Smash Ultimate as playable. But this means Nintendo actually knows of his demand. And that's enough for him to have a chance.

I feel like a second Fighter Pass is announced (which isn't a guarantee at all, despite how much money it would make), Isaac instantly becomes a frontrunner. It'd be long enough after the Assist debacle for Nintendo's perception of Isaac to have changed, and would give time for any GS-related project at Camelot to be developed.

 

[SirCamp]

I'd expect most of you to know due to the recent news, but Sakurai is not going to do another Smash Ballot, and he (and the rest of the dev team) doesn't know what the fan base wants without it. I don't know how you guys would push Isaac after this.

As for GS and E3, personally I think if a new GS was to be announced this year it would be on a later Direct, unless it was just a teaser.

I saw that and ngl it did dishearten me initially.

However, there are some counterpoints here. Much of that article was negative and implied certain things Sakurai didn't really like about DLC in general. The fighters pass and whatnot, but it never really stated anything about what would actually happen. It seems more likely that further DLC would be mandated by Nintendo as opposed to Sakurai and I still have doubts that they would want to pass up on more given Ultimate's wild success. So just because Sakraui doesn't like the idea doesn't ean it won't or can't happen. I also doubt they would want to release a second Smash this console generation. Further, if Nintendo is who decides on DLC, I expect they would again give Sakurai a list, in which case a ballot might not be relevant anyway.

Given all of that, continuing to push Golden Sun still seems paramount. For one, because we (or I assume most of us) want to see a return to form of the franchise itself. And two, because even if Sakurai or teams directly related to Smash aren't paying attention to social media or general fan trends as they relate to characters/franchises, that doesn't mean that no one at Nintendo is. Nintendo must have people working on market research and continuing to talk about Golden Sun can only help our chances of catching their eyes and potentially seeing our beloved franchise become relevant again in some way.

Honestly at this point the bigger take away for me is Sakurai doubling down on his outright strange ideas about casual vs competitive play.

 

[Tetiro]

At the end of the day we have no clue if Isaac will ever be in. But we can't give up hope because him not ever being playable is an option. We should only give up when Sakurai himself says "Isaac will never be playable in Smash". Until then, we keep on rolling and keep fighting to bring back Golden Sun!

Speaking of which, this is my full cosplay at MCM

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[isaac3000]

When is E3? I want to believe but I don't want to be disappointed yet again...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

When is E3? I want to believe but I don't want to be disappointed yet again...

The full thing starts on June 9th. I don't know the schedules beyond that.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

When is E3? I want to believe but I don't want to be disappointed yet again...

June 11th is when Nintendo presents (airs late morning here in the States).

 

[isaac3000]

I see, thank you both!

 

[MeatOfJustice]

It doesn't mean Isaac cannot get in, it just means using another ballot won't work. Why on earth should we stop pushing the character, though?

It should be noted that if Polarpanda's information is true, Nintendo didn't realize there was such fan demand for Isaac, and that he wasn't even considered for Smash Ultimate as playable. But this means Nintendo actually knows of his demand. And that's enough for him to have a chance.

I didn't mean to say we shouldn't keep pushing, I just didn't know how.