Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[NoOtherPersona]

What if they made an assist trophy promotion ballot for season 2 (assuming there is one) DLC picks? I would be so disappointed if we didn’t win that.

For me the ones I want upgraded are
1.isacc
2.Bomberman
3.Shadow echo

 

[BoreasTheSnowConeMachine]

For me the ones I want upgraded are
1.isacc
2.Bomberman
3.Shadow echo

Pretty much my list as well.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

What if they made an assist trophy promotion ballot for season 2 (assuming there is one) DLC picks? I would be so disappointed if we didn’t win that.

In a way I'd be kinda annoyed because you'd think it would be clear to them through the original ballot which of them were popular.

Something specific like that seems unlikely. It's more likely they would just have another general ballot.... though I'm not convinced that would happen either.

I think the main candidates for promotion would be....

Isaac, Waluigi, Bomberman, Skull Kid, Ashley, Krystal and Shovel Knight. (maybe Takamaru would be in with a shot too)

I think Midna would have trouble making the leap because of Skull Kid.

I'm not sure about Shadow since they said there wouldn't be DLC echoes.

 

[hustler713]

For me the ones I want upgraded are
1.isacc
2.Bomberman
3.Shadow echo

I'd add Skull Kid, Lyn and Knuckles to the List.

E: Damn forgot about Waluigi, Krystal and Shovel Knight.

 

[Organization XIII]

You guys think DLC characters will get a classic route and added to WoL?

 

[osby]

You guys think DLC characters will get a classic route and added to WoL?

There's no reason for not giving them their own routes. As for Adventure Mode... they'll probably just be made playable in that. Though, I guess it won't be hard for them to just add a few fighter Spirits you need to rescue here and there.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

I'd add Skull Kid, Lyn and Knuckles to the List.

E: Damn forgot about Waluigi, Krystal and Shovel Knight.

I only added shadow because he'd be and easy copy knuckles would have to be different enough because he ain't sonic Lyn is a meh for me because I do like her but I'm done with fire emblem characters we dont need anymore Krystal is welcomed because star fox needs more and I apologize to waluigi i thought he was the worst character they could add i was completely wrong ... stares at plant

 

[Tetiro]

https://nintendosoup.com/sakurai-the-next-super-smash-bros-could-come-in-10-years/amp/

I’m not sure if any of you have seen this but we now have a definitive time frame for when to expect Smash 6!

With this in mind I now find it hard to believe we won’t be getting a Wave 2 of DLC because I can’t see Ultimate getting no new content for approximately 8 and a half years.

Anyways, assuming Isaac still doesn’t make the cut if Wave 2 happens at least we know how much time we have to hopefully get Nintendo to remake the original Golden Sun games or even get GS4.

Of course I appreciate the amount of GS content in Ultimate but this is not the time to settle! We must be vocal to bring our series back to prominence!

Well I did the statistics and his claims of 10 years aren't entirely outlandish. Just a bit high. I sat down and logged which years a Smash game released compared to the console itself

• 64 - Console released in 1996 while the game released in 1999 - 3 years
• Melee - Console released in 2001 while the game released in 2001 - 0 years (this was an exception so we'll exclude it)
• Brawl - Console released in 2006 while the game released in 2008 - 2 years
• For 3DS/Wii U - Console released in 2012 while the game released in 2014 - 2 years
• Ultimate - Console released in 2017 while the game released in 2018 - 1 year

On average, Smash appears 2 years after a console gets released. It makes business sense as it is a great system seller to have in the early days. So we've proven that 2 years after a console launches a new Smash rears its head. In a worst case scenario it's 3 years but in a best case it is 1 year. But what about the console itself? For this examination, we'll look at the year difference between when a console debuts and when its successor arrives

• NES to SNES - 1983 to 1990 - 7 years
• SNES to N64 - 1990 to 1996 - 6 years
• N64 to Gamecube - 1996 to 2001 - 5 years
• Gamecube to Wii - 2001 to 2006 - 5 years
• Wii to Wii U - 2006 to 2012 - 6 years
• Wii U to Switch - 2012 to 2017 - 5 years

On average, it takes 5 to 6 for a console to release. 5 years and 8 months to be precise (we'll call it 5.5 for calculations). In a worst case it is 7 years but in a best case it is 5 years.

So what does this all mean? Using this, we can look at how the Average, Best and Worst case scenario stacks up together

• Average - 5.5 years + 2 years = 7.5 years (2025)
• Worst - 7 years + 3 years = 10 years (2028)
• Best - 5 years + 1 year = 6 years (2024)

Now you can see where Sakurai is coming from. If you assume the Switch for the rest of its life is as leaps and bounds as the Wii or NES, that means the console will be around for 6-7 years meaning it is at least 8-9 years before Smash appears again. The man knows what he's on about!

What does this mean for Smash Ultimate though?

Well the truth of the matter is that a DLC Pack 2 COULD happen. But it really hinges on the Switch's life span. As right now a new Smash Bros is between 2024-2028. And like all games they take time to develop so this is almost certainly the case. And there is something else we should consider. Development times.

• 64 - Development started in 1998 and finished in 1999 - 1 year (this was a time when Sakurai worked himself to death)
• Melee - Development started in 2000 and finished in 2001 - 1 year (this was a time when Sakurai worked himself to death)
• Brawl - Development started in 2005 and finished in 2008 - 3 years
• For 3DS/Wii U - Development started in 2012 and finished in 2014- 2 years
• Ultimate - Development started in 2015 and finished in 2018- 3 years

As you can see from Brawl, Wii U and Ultimate, you can workout that about 1 to 2 years (more to 2) from a console's end of lifespan they start work on the next one. Using that, you can see that Ultimate should have a lifespan ending at 2022-2026 3DS/Wii U covered that gap with the DLC lasting between 2014 and 2016.

This means that Ultimate needs to last at least 2 years more than their Fighter Pass currently stands (2020 to 2022). So a Fighter Pack 2 could happen. Maybe even more. But I really wouldn't expect them to go nuts. They have to finish Ultimate someday. But as it stands, there could even be a Fighter Pack THREE if the lifespan of the Switch goes on for so long.

In short, GET READY FOR A JOURNEY BOYS. This is gonna be a long Isaac campaign for Ultimate

 

[SPEN18]

Just to give two cents my guess for Smash 6 would be 7 years or so, give or take a couple. Sure, Nintendo says they want the Switch to last 10 years but even if it does they'll surely have to get a new console out before then and phase out the Switch (like they're doing with the 3DS). Really, though, it just depends on how long the Switch lasts and whether or not they want Smash to be released early in their next console's lifetime like Ultimate.
Really though, now's not the time to worry about that; there's too many things we don't know.

 

[Ura]

I don't know what you buy then but you know Assist Trophies are technically items, right? It can be just they preferred some of their effects better.

Still doesn't justify them being "higher priority" as you mentioned.

I wasn't a big fan of Infantry & Tanks as I mentioned before but Advance Wars is a big enough series to justify having an AT at the very least. Which is why I thought overhauling the AT so that a CO uses the units would have been the better fit instead of outright cutting it from the game.

 

[FantastiqueFran]

I came home for winter break and got to surprise my sister yesterday at school. Coincidentally, she and her friends were playing Smash Ultimate during their off period.

She was killing it as Pac-Man and Kirby the whole time, even though she said she wasn't used to Ultimate's controls. Her friends got frustrated and insisted she plays with a handicap (to which she refused).

I actually got a chance to play against her and her friends. It was pretty fun, although I'm not too fond of the pro controller. I've always played Smash with a sideways Wiimote, so I guess I'll have to reteach myself how to play again.

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

What if they made an assist trophy promotion ballot for season 2 (assuming there is one) DLC picks? I would be so disappointed if we didn’t win that.

That would be a terrifying time indeed. I have no doubt that Waluigi and Isaac would be the top two competing. Camelot Bros. Once United now divided.

Edit: the Stoic seraphim comics alone would make this scenario hilarious.

 

[WaddleMatt]

That would be a terrifying time indeed. I have no doubt that Waluigi and Isaac would be the top two competing. Camelot Bros. Once United now divided.

Edit: the Stoic seraphim comics alone would make this scenario hilarious.

It would be a tense battle between the Camelot bros for sure with complete uncertainty on the victor. We would get to the direct either extremely happy or severely dissapointed.

 

[SonicLink125]

https://mobile.twitter.com/SonicLink125/status/1073319163597213696

Had fun making just GS teams here. Can’t wait for Isaac already.

Not sure if anyone knew this, but you can have spirits active in regular Smash. The true reason I’ve made these GS Spirit teams. Going to use these guys constantly to get more GS exposure one way or another.

 

[JaidynReiman]

https://mobile.twitter.com/SonicLink125/status/1073319163597213696

Had fun making just GS teams here. Can’t wait for Isaac already.

Not sure if anyone knew this, but you can have spirits active in regular Smash. The true reason I’ve made these GS Spirit teams. Going to use these guys constantly to get more GS exposure one way or another.

In fact, you can only use spirit teams in regular Smash.

 

[WaddleMatt]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HqUkqiuuXOcA035vpuoU8lnzlMJPKMPM5y9C3PZ4rq8/edit

The document is nearly done, well I can't think of much more to add apart from touching up on grammar and adding more images.

If anyone has more suggestions please tell me so we can help spread the message.

 

[SonicLink125]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HqUkqiuuXOcA035vpuoU8lnzlMJPKMPM5y9C3PZ4rq8/edit

The document is nearly done, well I can't think of much more to add apart from touching up on grammar and adding more images.

If anyone has more suggestions please tell me so we can help spread the message.

Looking real good. Needs touching up, but I’m really liking what I see. Also, I didn’t even realize that Matthew Spirit battle one. That’s weird!

Another thing you could add is how well detailed the Mii Isaac Costume is compared to his AT. Although, that might be stretching it since Mii Costumes typically are better detailed.

Also, Adult Isaac can easily get in without having to mess with Isaac’s AT since his proportions are different as well as his looks and can easily have a Classic Alt too. Still interesting that Adult Isaac is considered one of the best spirits in the game.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I can't help but notice that there's a lot of Golden Sun spirits here. I know that they put them there to throw fans of the series a bone but does it come across as a tease to anyone else?

 

[StrawHatX]

I can't help but notice that there's a lot of Golden Sun spirits here. I know that they put them there to throw fans of the series a bone but does it come across as a tease to anyone else?

It is intriguing to say the least.

On that note the Adult Isaac spirit kicks ass. I have all my Golden Sun spirits leveled to 99 and have both Isaacs.

 

[NessAtc.]

I can't help but notice that there's a lot of Golden Sun spirits here. I know that they put them there to throw fans of the series a bone but does it come across as a tease to anyone else?

For me personally it's what's behind those spirits in the spirit battles that may or may not come across as a tease, but that's just me.

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

I can't help but notice that there's a lot of Golden Sun spirits here. I know that they put them there to throw fans of the series a bone but does it come across as a tease to anyone else?

I don’t know if it’s so much a tease as it is a reaction to the fan outcry.

My theory is they never expected Isaac to be the #1 kid on the block.

And that’s why we seem to have been treated fairly well all things considered.

Isaac Assist is the only returning Assist to have an upgraded moveset.

A few of the Golden Sun Spirit battles are tough and memorable.

Isaac’s Spirit is one of the best available.

He even has a well made Mii Costume.

That’s why... I don’t think we’ll see playable Isaac in the near future. But I do think Nintendo is well aware of our existence to the point where we might just see something GS related on the horizon. Maybe.

 

[Frosty Pops]

Plenty of time for a new Golden Sun release to come out, and plenty of time for several years to pass after that so Sakurai can ignore Golden Sun again. (Dark Dawn and SSB4 is a prime example of this).

It's nice to have optimism and all, but I think the above scenario is highly realistic if a new Golden Sun release should even happen. I don't know what Golden Sun even has to do to prove itself at this point. =(

Be like Sakurai's favorite Fire Emblem lol

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Be like Sakurai's favorite Fire Emblem lol

So... Add in hot anime girls instead of cute ones?

 

[SPEN18]

----------

 

[Frosty Pops]

I think Isaac was definitely close. If getting into smash is like delivering a pizza, Isaac is the delivery man who trips on the steps to your front porch. Many fan favourites were flat out ignored thus time around, but this character from this old series that hasn’t had a game in almost a decade, and wasn’t even IN the last game, suddenly gets everything except a fighter. I think Isaac was really close, but something is holding him back. Whether it just be the lack of time or the dormant status of his series, there is something that is holding him back from that playable position even though he checks all the other boxes for them. I think that’s why he got all this extra content.

I think the most suspicious part of it is the added moves to his assist trophy. I’ve seen it in action, and it’s almost a complete overhaul from the one in Brawl. This happened to nobody else. It feels like they want him in but again, that one thing was in his way.

I am guessing it is because Sakurai is a FE fanboy (established during the gaming era he gravitates to) mid aged series are his kryptonite apparently. Only brand new and really old games seem to interest him and he has a habit of completely ignoring certain series that need attention (like Nintendo does in general). If he had the chance you know Geno would have been in the game, and if he was one of the characters Nintendo let him choose from for DLC he would probably shove most other characters aside for him. When Sakurai likes something you can bet he is going to pay it more attention than the rest of the potential candidates.

 

[KoopaSaki]

I’m heading over to a holiday con over in Orlando tomorrow. I’ll of course rock the Isaac cosplay and carry that banner. Also I hope my Velcro works on my sword. As for Isaac for wave 1 dlc, I think we got a shot at the very least but a wave 2 would certainly help. I’m going to do what I can!

 

[JaidynReiman]

Looking real good. Needs touching up, but I’m really liking what I see. Also, I didn’t even realize that Matthew Spirit battle one. That’s weird!

Another thing you could add is how well detailed the Mii Isaac Costume is compared to his AT. Although, that might be stretching it since Mii Costumes typically are better detailed.

Also, Adult Isaac can easily get in without having to mess with Isaac’s AT since his proportions are different as well as his looks and can easily have a Classic Alt too. Still interesting that Adult Isaac is considered one of the best spirits in the game.

The Matthew spirit battle is really awkward. All the other battles are extremely faithful, but considering Matthew is pretty much literally just Isaac in appearance and abilities, why doesn't Isaac's AT or Mii Fighter costume show up?

Saki's Mii Fighter costume is just straight up reused for Isa Jo's spirit battle.


There is, of course, also the fact that Link has a recolored outfit that fits Matthew way better than Chrom, containing both blue and red, and Link has blonde hair. Yes, Link has more abilities than Chrom, but that hasn't stopped other characters before from being based on characters completely different, but they focus on the abilities that character prioritizes. The Matthew battle just wouldn't use Link's bombs, boomerang, or bow.


Matthew's battle in general just seems very sloppy by comparison while every other battle is extremely faithful (Jenna is Zelda prioritizing Din's Fire and Isaac's AT shows up to protect her). And they had to patch the music to be Weyard.

 

[ZelDan]

Got Mia's spirit and finally snagged Isaac's Mii costume from the shop!

Now I just need his hair.

Also damn I ate through alot of my spirit points and gold faster than I thought.

 

[osby]

I am guessing it is because Sakurai is a FE fanboy (established during the gaming era he gravitates to) mid aged series are his kryptonite apparently. Only brand new and really old games seem to interest him and he has a habit of completely ignoring certain series that need attention (like Nintendo does in general). If he had the chance you know Geno would have been in the game, and if he was one of the characters Nintendo let him choose from for DLC he would probably shove most other characters aside for him. When Sakurai likes something you can bet he is going to pay it more attention than the rest of the potential candidates.

I don't get what Sakurai liking Fire Emblem has anything to do with the gaming eras the likes to represent.

 

[Undella2]

So... Add in hot anime girls instead of cute ones?

So....

Jenna?

I mean, she's a Mars adept and all...

 

[TempestSurge]

Be like Sakurai's favorite Fire Emblem lol

So... Add in hot anime girls instead of cute ones?

Funny as that is to imagine, Fire Emblem is a series that Sakurai has played since it's launch, and he wanted to include Marth as far back as 64. It's now a series he's fond of an attached to and will continue to play every installment but he was always a fan since the spritework and crital animation days.

Golden Sun on the other hand was released a bit before Melee. Most likely Sakurai didn't get to play much of this series at all and Dark Dawn released in just enough time to have a song ripped from it and ignored for everything else.

Dark Dawn's only spirit is Matthew right? It's not a case of FE that has spirits spanning across the series. Show up on the spirit board already!

 

[Solbliminal]

Dunno if you guys have seen this yet. I'm keeping my nose out of speculating, but everyone seems to think this may be Smash related. Go figure lol.

Travis Strikes Again: No More Heroes getting a 2-hour presentation on Dec. 20th, 2018, 'huge announcement' teased https://t.co/2rq781Q975 pic.twitter.com/jGiOToirjv

— GoNintendoTweet (@GoNintendoTweet) December 12, 2018

EDIT: This isn't Golden Sun related, but it does potentially narrow the numbers down on who all is in Challenger Pack 1.

 

[Tetiro]

Dunno if you guys have seen this yet. I'm keeping my nose out of speculating, but everyone seems to think this may be Smash related. Go figure lol.

Travis Strikes Again: No More Heroes getting a 2-hour presentation on Dec. 20th, 2018, 'huge announcement' teased https://t.co/2rq781Q975 pic.twitter.com/jGiOToirjv

— GoNintendoTweet (@GoNintendoTweet) December 12, 2018

EDIT: This isn't Golden Sun related, but it does potentially narrow the numbers down on who all is in Challenger Pack 1.

While I'd be happy with Travis I don't think he is in. After all the DLC Pass is meant to last from December to February 2020. That's 15 months total. On average it is obvious that a DLC pack will take 3 months to release. Unless they are planning to reveal a character 6 months away, I highly doubt they will.

Joker makes sense as no doubt the DLC has already started development and will probably be ready for release in roughly February. Nearer the time we will find out the next DLC character

 

[Frosty Pops]

I don't get what Sakurai liking Fire Emblem has anything to do with the gaming eras the likes to represent.

When did the first few Fire Emblem games release? (Look it up and it will make sense)

Just realized I haven't given my 2 cents about Joker. I am not familiar with the series but have looked up what he can do, he seems like he could be a fun character and has a cool design. He is not a minion (thank you for stopping Sakurai Nintendo!! Lol) so I don't need to worry about a game full of koopa, goomba, and hammer bros, versus Pirhana Plant, boo, and lakitu. And also he is not Steve so...bonus!

 

[SPEN18]

Dark Dawn's only spirit is Matthew right? It's not a case of FE that has spirits spanning across the series.

There's also Dark Dawn Isaac.

But also, I am pretty content with the FE Spirits for the most part. Even Barst is there, my favorite FE character.

 

[THE 6r]

Got Mia's spirit and finally snagged Isaac's Mii costume from the shop!

Now I just need his hair.

Also damn I ate through alot of my spirit points and gold faster than I thought.

I know, everything is this game seems to be hella expensive. I'm constantly strapped for cash even after I got a ton of gold or SP from WoL or Classic.

 

[SonicLink125]

I know, everything is this game seems to be hella expensive. I'm constantly strapped for cash even after I got a ton of gold or SP from WoL or Classic.

Doing online battles help me get a lot of gold as well as doing classic mode.

 

[ZelDan]

Doing online battles help me get a lot of gold as well as doing classic mode.

Yeah, I basically did alot of characters' Classic modes to unlock characters and accumulated a crapload of gold and SP while doing so, and thought I was going to be fine with what I had.

Nope, not at all...

But atleast I had enough gold to get Isaac's Wig last time I played! Now I just have to make a Mii face that looks as Isaac-ish as possible.

 

[SonicLink125]

Yeah, I basically did alot of characters' Classic modes to unlock characters and accumulated a crapload of gold and SP while doing so, and thought I was going to be fine with what I had.

Nope, not at all...

But atleast I had enough gold to get Isaac's Wig last time I played! Now I just have to make a Mii face that looks as Isaac-ish as possible.

Here’s what mine looks like. That could give you an idea.

 

[Solbliminal]

While I'd be happy with Travis I don't think he is in. After all the DLC Pass is meant to last from December to February 2020. That's 15 months total. On average it is obvious that a DLC pack will take 3 months to release. Unless they are planning to reveal a character 6 months away, I highly doubt they will.

Joker makes sense as no doubt the DLC has already started development and will probably be ready for release in roughly February. Nearer the time we will find out the next DLC character

I'm not a fan of the series myself, so it honestly doesn't effect me one way or another.

But for the sake of discussion, there is still potential in them revealing things and releasing them in intervals across the months. I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to try and cram in reveal trailers before things get leaked.

Alternatively, I'm personally thinking it is something along the lines of a steam release of all the installments, or even a switch bundle of the previous two games. No harm in keeping an open mind though.