Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Diddy Kong]

I don't think they'll be a wave 2 for DLC, at least not with Sakurai at the helm. The guy has been working on nothing but Smash since Kid Icarus Uprising was released in 2012 (technically Bamco's work on Smash 4 started before that). In 2020 that will have been over eight years Sakurai has been plugging away at this franchise. The reason he sighted having left Hal Laboratories many years ago was implied that Nintendo/Hal kept assigning him on sequels/Kirby games over and over again.

https://www.nsidr.com/archive/hal-laboratory-company-profile/5



At the end of the day though, it's Nintendo's call. If Nintendo wants more, they can probably do it, but I imagine they'll want to keep good relations with Sakurai and if he isn't up for more, then it's probably a wrap as far as DLC is concerned. Also, in the direct he's already implying he's getting tired, wondering if he'll ever get a break. I think the next five characters will be the last set of characters for Smash for the next several years. Of course, like you guys, all I want is Isaac, though any Golden Sun rep would be suit. That's looking like a steep hill to climb in the next year, but hey, you never know. Maybe a new Golden Sun game is on the horizon! Only when we give up is it truly over.

Maybe his is why Nintendo is willing to decide on the DLC characters themselves now? Sakurai did put a lot of time and energy into Smash 4 and Ultimate, and from these two games he build a easy template for the next Smash to be build off from. Much like how Ultimate really build off from Smash Wii U a lot. Many speculating even a port in the early days.

 

[hustler713]

Maybe his is why Nintendo is willing to decide on the DLC characters themselves now? Sakurai did put a lot of time and energy into Smash 4 and Ultimate, and from these two games he build a easy template for the next Smash to be build off from. Much like how Ultimate really build off from Smash Wii U a lot. Many speculating even a port in the early days.

I always thought Sakurai should have stepped down from Smash after Brawl. (I just don't like Smash4 at all...)

First of all Sakurai makes the Games more for himself then for the Fans. Fans liked to play Melee competetively and technically, he responded to that by taking all the tech away from us. Same goes for the Roster were as i think since 4 there's a big Gap between Sakurais personal and the communities wishes.

I'm sure Nintendo could make a good Smash Game without Sakurai. I'm pretty sure it could even turn out as the best Smash Game, but Nintendo wants to play it safe and Sakurai is the safe pick at this point.

Ultimate is a step in a good direction in a lot of ways. Ridley, Simon, Ken, Inkling, K rool... that's the best base Roster since Brawl. Gameplay is much faster and more technical than 4 and Brawl. But i still have a feeling like, and that could as well just be my bias for Sakurai, another director could have made an even better Game.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I always thought Sakurai should have stepped down from Smash after Brawl. (I just don't like Smash4 at all...)

First of all Sakurai makes the Games more for himself then for the Fans. Fans liked to play Melee competetively and technically, he responded to that by taking all the tech away from us. Same goes for the Roster were as i think since 4 there's a big Gap between Sakurais personal and the communities wishes.

I'm sure Nintendo could make a good Smash Game without Sakurai. I'm pretty sure it could even turn out as the best Smash Game, but Nintendo wants to play it safe and Sakurai is the safe pick at this point.

Ultimate is a step in a good direction in a lot of ways. Ridley, Simon, Ken, Inkling, K rool... that's the best base Roster since Brawl. Gameplay is much faster and more technical than 4 and Brawl. But i still have a feeling like, and that could as well just be my bias for Sakurai, another director could have made an even better Game.

I'm willing to bet Kumazaki would be the ideal pick. Who better than the guy who's the current driving force of the Kirby franchise?

Besides, Sakurai, like most Japanese, prides himself on overworking, so he was most likely poking fun at his own habits.

Also, it's been claimed on the Krystal thread that there's 30 placeholder slots that have been discovered. While it's doubtful all of them will be filled, at least the possibility for more DLC is there.

 

[Q-Long]

Even though I don't always agree with Sakurai, he is hands down my favorite game producer.

He should take a nice vacation soon, he works so hard. It would be cool to see him revive a retro series or make a new IP as well. He seems to have a lot of ideas.

 

[SPEN18]

So my 3-man squad strike is gonna be Ness, Marth, and Luigi. But I have no idea who my 5-man squad strike is gonna be.
I've never really cared for Miis, but between Isaac, Takamaru, and Saki, Mii Swordsman might be worth trying out lol!
...Let's be real, though. It's nothing like playing as the actual character.

 

[?!?!?!]

I'm actually really happy about the mii costume, now I'm gonna main the mii swordsman (or at least get gud with him)

 

[Ninjaed]

Nah.

I'd bet money that it isn't Chocobo.

Why ever not though? What makes you think Chocobo can be brushed away that easily?

 

[Diddy Kong]

I always thought Sakurai should have stepped down from Smash after Brawl. (I just don't like Smash4 at all...)

First of all Sakurai makes the Games more for himself then for the Fans. Fans liked to play Melee competetively and technically, he responded to that by taking all the tech away from us. Same goes for the Roster were as i think since 4 there's a big Gap between Sakurais personal and the communities wishes.

I'm sure Nintendo could make a good Smash Game without Sakurai. I'm pretty sure it could even turn out as the best Smash Game, but Nintendo wants to play it safe and Sakurai is the safe pick at this point.

Ultimate is a step in a good direction in a lot of ways. Ridley, Simon, Ken, Inkling, K rool... that's the best base Roster since Brawl. Gameplay is much faster and more technical than 4 and Brawl. But i still have a feeling like, and that could as well just be my bias for Sakurai, another director could have made an even better Game.

Not 100% sure about it, but I do see your point. Sakurai's work is full of extreme dedication. It's why he cannot take rests well, he literally gives it his all. Maybe Nintendo can match the quality in a way, but can they match the dedication? I somehow doubt it...

 

[SPEN18]

I have to say I'm a bit conflicted about Sakurai directing a hypothetical Smash 6. On one hand I've had a lot of issues with the way things have gone in Smash 4 and Ultimate, and I'm not sure I trust Sakurai's vision anymore. But I'm also not sure who else could direct the game that would be better. It's possible we'd get even more of the stuff we don't want.

 

[Yellowlord]

Well... Isaac getting a Mii Costume does make me feel a bit better especially with how much better the Mii Swordfighter is looking. Based off Isaac's abilities and what the Special's could be, I predict that a moveset consisting of Gale Strike/Shuriken of Light (although the former fits more thematically) for Neutral B, Slash Launcher for Side B (although Airborne Assault looks a lot cooler to me), Stone Scabbard for Up B, and Reversal Slash for Down B would work the best and be the closest we could get to Isaac's moveset.

Also, this has been driving me crazy for a while, but what exactly is the Golden Sun reference in Mario Tennis Aces?

 

[SonicLink125]

3 man Squad for me would be Link, Sonic and Simon easy. With 5 man squad, I would add either Roy, Mewtwo, Wolf, Cloud and/or Isaac Mii Fighter.
If Isaac was playable, however, he would replace Simon in my main 3 and Simon would be #4.

Edit: Forgot to add Cloud

 

[Istry555]

I know people are still sore about Isaac not being playable, but Golden Sun actually got a lot in Ultimate.

We didn't just get an assist trophy, we got an assist trophy that was taken out of the last game specifically added back in, we got a Mii costume, and we got a bunch of spirits. The only explanation for this is that Isaac, as we all suspected, actually did really well in the poll.

It also leads me to believe that the only reason Isaac didn't get in as a playable character is that Golden Sun hasn't had a game in a while and there's no information about any future titles. Sakurai has said in the past that he prefers active franchises and recognizable characters. Even when talking about Piranha Plant he specifically said that one of the reasons why he added him was because he was recognizable and thus a better choice than main characters from lesser known franchises. (And, if there aren't any Nintendo characters left from active franchises, he's more than eager to fill the spots with 3rd parties instead of mining Nintendo's back-catalog, unfortunately).

So, what does this mean for Isaac's chances for the next Smash? Pretty much, unless Golden Sun gets a new game (and the development/release happens to be in the right time-window of the next Smash's release) or someone else besides Sakurai directs the game, he really doesn't have a chance of being playable. Which kind of sucks. It just confirms the idea I've always had that Isaac is a perfect character for Smash but just got unlucky with his timing.

But, I won't be too disappointed this time. We got a a more fleshed out assist trophy, a costume, and pretty much confirmation of his popularity in the Smash community. I would've liked some more music, but we did pretty good overall for Ultimate.

 

[hustler713]

Not 100% sure about it, but I do see your point. Sakurai's work is full of extreme dedication. It's why he cannot take rests well, he literally gives it his all. Maybe Nintendo can match the quality in a way, but can they match the dedication? I somehow doubt it...

How much dedication is too much? I mean where does this dedication flow into?

At this point we have 59 ATs and 45 Pokeball Pokemon. Those have Character models which have to be built and animated. Not only does this take a lot of manpower but also has to be overseen by Sakurai. We have 103 stages with a few new coming through Dlc, and this time around a lot of them were remade to look better in HD. And i really appreciate the effort Sakurai put in to realize this but i ask, do we really need 103 of them? 2 or 3 Stage per Franchise (I'd even say one would have been enough for most Franchises) would have been enough and than we still would be around, maybe 60 or 70.

I'm not saying anything as dumb as "we would have gotten Isaac if we had one Stage less or a few ATs or Pokeball Pokemon less" but it is just effort that does not only get unappreciated by fans, but it doesn't really affect the quality of the Game in any Way. Nobody would think the Game is worse if there just was less of this sidecontent. And maybe i'm unrealistic but if that effort would have put into unique Target Smashes for each Char for example, or into some Platforming Stages or Heck even into a new Character as long as it is not Piranha Plant I'm sure Fans would have been even more appreciative than they are at this point, with maybe even a bit less effort put in than it is right now.

Of course you can't please everyone and even if i come off as really harsh towards Sakurai in my oppinions, i really appreciate the effort and work he puts into the games. But i'm sure that other directors could be much closer to what Fans like than Sakurai is.

 

[Nazyrus]

I just hope the Isaac mii costume gets something more than just swordsman moves. Kinda like Lloyd got canon moves in his mii costume moveset (which btw, lloyd and geno mii costumes are 100% missing… gives me hope for their dlc chances! ), so I would hope he got some psynergy moves in his mii costume moveset at least. Making Isaac just a swordsman would be worse than not getting him truly playable imo, since he shouldn't be considered just another generic swordsman, I mean… freaking GS is mostly about psynergy after all.

 

[osby]

I just hope the Isaac mii costume gets something more than just swordsman moves.

That won't happen, so I'll suggest for you to stop hoping. Pretty much every Mii costume does more than "generic" stuff in their own games.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

It's best to treat Mii fighters as cosplayers rather than character substitutes. Hell, they even come with a Smash Bros. t-shirt.

 

[QcSlayer]

I'm willing to bet Kumazaki would be the ideal pick. Who better than the guy who's the current driving force of the Kirby franchise?

Besides, Sakurai, like most Japanese, prides himself on overworking, so he was most likely poking fun at his own habits.

Also, it's been claimed on the Krystal thread that there's 30 placeholder slots that have been discovered. While it's doubtful all of them will be filled, at least the possibility for more DLC is there.

My brother opinion on it is that Ultimate is going to get support for the switch lifespan, like tekken and street fighter, in 30 characters we will probably get our Isaac or GS 4 character.

 

[Nazyrus]

That won't happen, so I'll suggest for you to stop hoping. Pretty much every Mii costume does more than "generic" stuff in their own games.

Like I said, Lloyd got canon moves instead of just regular mii swordsman moves. It could happen.

 

[StrawHatX]

Well... Isaac getting a Mii Costume does make me feel a bit better especially with how much better the Mii Swordfighter is looking. Based off Isaac's abilities and what the Special's could be, I predict that a moveset consisting of Gale Strike/Shuriken of Light (although the former fits more thematically) for Neutral B, Slash Launcher for Side B (although Airborne Assault looks a lot cooler to me), Stone Scabbard for Up B, and Reversal Slash for Down B would work the best and be the closest we could get to Isaac's moveset.

Also, this has been driving me crazy for a while, but what exactly is the Golden Sun reference in Mario Tennis Aces?

I don’t have the game, but I think there is a temple that is called Sol Sanctum. However I think it’s only called that in the Japanese version. At least I think that’s what the reference is.

 

[osby]

Like I said, Lloyd got canon moves instead of just regular mii swordsman moves. It could happen.

From wiki:

• Equipping a Swordfighter with Airborne Assault, Power Thrust and Blurring Blade will be a close approximation to Lloyd's Tempest, Sonic Thrust (Rising Falcon in the air) and Sword Rain moves, respectively- though obviously with the use of only one blade.

 

[hustler713]

I don’t have the game, but I think there is a temple that is called Sol Sanctum. However I think it’s only called that in the Japanese version. At least I think that’s what the reference is.

In other translations it is more like Spirit Temple or something like that. I didn't play it for a long time, can't really remember the exact german translation for it right now.

 

[RandomAce]

So Isaac got a Mii costume. That’s something

WE’VE BEEN NOTICED!!!

It seemed that we did really well on the ballot for Sakurai to put in more effort for Golden Sun content.

...now if only Isaac can be a fighter.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

Hi! How is everyone doing?

Well, I'm happy to hear about Isaac getting a Mii Costume! That's pretty cool.

 

[QcSlayer]

Does Lloyd has a mii costume this time?

 

[osby]

Does Lloyd has a mii costume this time?

Nope, no third party character have.

 

[Silo777]

I think his confirms to me that Isaac very well may be right after K Rool on the ballot. Or at least, the next first party character. He’s getting a heck ton of special treatment while a lot of others aren’t, which makes me think the dead series might not have been a problem, but the lack of space was. Who knows? Isaac could’ve been the very next character they wanted to add, but there wasn’t any room.

 

[StormC]

Why ever not though? What makes you think Chocobo can be brushed away that easily?

Because there are character more popular with a bigger impact that can be sold than a generic Chocobo. Chocobo is a recognizable character but that's about all it has going for it. Square would stand to benefit from other characters that can sell even bigger titles than some Chocobo spin-off.

But this is the Isaac thread so I won't get too into it.

Nope, no third party character have.

Weren't there Mega Man ones discovered?

 

[Silo777]

To get back on the crazy bus for a second though, you’re meaning to tell me that they added an assist trophy (most likely made from scratch) with whole new moves, a mii costume, and 8 spirits but absolutely no new Golden Sun music? When there were only two new franchises introduced this time around? The only thing they couldn’t add more of if something Golden Sun was going to be DLC? Hmm...

 

[StrawHatX]

I’m just hoping some of this extra GS stuff is eluding to a possible GS game in the future. I know there is that pending trademark that looks like it could be for a new game. Really hope it’s remakes for the Switch.

 

[hustler713]

To get back on the crazy bus for a second though, you’re meaning to tell me that they added an assist trophy (most likely made from scratch) with whole new moves, a mii costume, and 8 spirits but absolutely no new Golden Sun music? When there were only two new franchises introduced this time around? The only thing they couldn’t add more of if something Golden Sun was going to be DLC? Hmm...

Considering both Nintendos and Sakurais Mindset, i'd assume a new Golden Sun's protagonist would take priority over Isaac.

IF we are getting an actual GS rep ,the missing music which of course would come with a dlc pack and the rathalos tweet could be hinting at that, it could be GS 4s new protagonist, maybe Felix and Sheba son?
At least it seems more likely to me than getting Isaac upgraded...

BTW i think IF Brawl would have DLC as it originally supposed to have we could have end up with Matthew beeing playable.

 

[jweb23]

With all the GS content in Smash it’s undeniable how popular Isaac must have been on the ballot.

- The only cut assist trophy to return without being connected to a playable fighter.
- His assist trophy has updated attacks and animations.
- And a mii fighter costume!

I’m still disappointed he’s not playable but Isaac and GS did get some preferential treatment which is great! For all we know the new trademark is actually a new game and Sakurai/his team heard about it too late to alter plans. Just my wishful thinking of course.

 

[Silo777]

With all the GS content in Smash it’s undeniable how popular Isaac must have been on the ballot.

- The only cut assist trophy to return without being connected to a playable fighter.
- His assist trophy has updated attacks and animations.
- And a mii fighter costume!

I’m still disappointed he’s not playable but Isaac and GS did get some preferential treatment which is great! For all we know the new trademark is actually a new game and Sakurai/his team heard about it too late to alter plans. Just my wishful thinking of course.

This is what has me still cautiously hopeful. Let’s assume we’re right and the only thing holding Isaac back for Sakurai is the fact that his series is dormant. Then, he receives word that a new Golden Sun is in development. It’s a couple months until release, and Golden Sun content like assists and mii costumes are already implemented but you want to make him DLC. What do you do?

A: Remove EVERYTHING

B: Gather up the infinity stones and snap half of the content out of existence. Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.

C: Leave everything be.

D: Remove only what would be in the DLC pack.

If you answered D, you’re correct! Or at least, I think so. The fact is, DLC packs are only containing a fighter, a stage, and music. They won’t have spirits, assist trophies, or mii costumes, but they do have music. Meaning if Isaac were to be DLC, the only thing you absolutely have to remove is the music. And would you look at that, there’s no new music in base. Interesting, isn’t it?

 

[Ninjaed]

Because there are character more popular with a bigger impact that can be sold than a generic Chocobo. Chocobo is a recognizable character but that's about all it has going for it. Square would stand to benefit from other characters that can sell even bigger titles than some Chocobo spin-off.

But this is the Isaac thread so I won't get too into it.

Fair enough, let's not derail the thread, sorry.

On topic, I think we can consider having the AT back, with added moveset - a first in Smash! - and FINALLY our first Isaac Mii costume as a huge victory and step-up! Chances of Isaac becoming playable are now confirmed to have skyrocketed! Nay-sayers can't claim anymore that Sakurai hates the guy nor that he's irrelevant. Also, general public exposure to Golden Sun is going to keep increasing if we play our cards right, fueling demand which in turn would increase exposure even more. If Nintendo decides to release a new Golden Sun title (hopefully with the new trademark application!), Isaac will be 99% guaranteed to have a slot! The future ain't so bleak anymore now is it?

 

[Gioka]

I don't think they'll be a wave 2 for DLC, at least not with Sakurai at the helm. The guy has been working on nothing but Smash since Kid Icarus Uprising was released in 2012 (technically Bamco's work on Smash 4 started before that). In 2020 that will have been over eight years Sakurai has been plugging away at this franchise. The reason he sighted having left Hal Laboratories many years ago was implied that Nintendo/Hal kept assigning him on sequels/Kirby games over and over again.

https://www.nsidr.com/archive/hal-laboratory-company-profile/5



At the end of the day though, it's Nintendo's call. If Nintendo wants more, they can probably do it, but I imagine they'll want to keep good relations with Sakurai and if he isn't up for more, then it's probably a wrap as far as DLC is concerned. Also, in the direct he's already implying he's getting tired, wondering if he'll ever get a break. I think the next five characters will be the last set of characters for Smash for the next several years. Of course, like you guys, all I want is Isaac, though any Golden Sun rep would be suit. That's looking like a steep hill to climb in the next year, but hey, you never know. Maybe a new Golden Sun game is on the horizon! Only when we give up is it truly over.

Tbh they don't need to have Sakurai to develop the DLC, you can have a smaller team for that. It would be really a shame and a waste to not have more than one DLC wave specially with Smash coming out so early in the Switch lifespan and if they are planning the Switch to outlive the normal console lifespan like Wii did then with more reason they should give it more content.

Like I said, Lloyd got canon moves instead of just regular mii swordsman moves. It could happen.

That was when custom moves existed and they didn't make a comeback to Ultimate, it would be nice, but I don't think it will happen

 

[osby]

That was when custom moves existen and they didn't make a comeback to Ultimate, it would be nice, but I don't think it will happen

Miis still have customs.

 

[SonicLink125]

I’m actually relieved that we got an Isaac Mii costume. Even though we didn’t get Isaac as a fighter (yet), at least we can show him off still with the Mii Fighter as the Mii Swordsman has been my favorite one to use. Also, someone said you can use spirits online as well. If true, then I’ll be representing all GS spirits online all the time!

I am still surprised at the huge lack of GS music though. It would make sense if they were saving it for a GS Rep (please be Adult Isaac. lol) via DLC, but if that wasn’t the case, then why didn’t we get a few favorites? Not complaining, just confused.

 

[osby]

I’m actually relieved that we got an Isaac Mii costume. Even though we didn’t get Isaac as a fighter (yet), at least we can show him off still with the Mii Fighter as the Mii Swordsman has been my favorite one to use. Also, someone said you can use spirits online as well. If true, then I’ll be representing all GS spirits online all the time!

I am still surprised at the huge lack of GS music though. It would make sense if they were saving it for a GS Rep (please be Adult Isaac. lol) via DLC, but if that wasn’t the case, then why didn’t we get a few favorites? Not complaining, just confused.

Franchises with no playable fighters generally don't get a ton of music.

 

[Gioka]

Miis still have customs.

Do they? Neat! However I don't think they will design specific customs for Isaac

 

[SonicLink125]

Franchises with no playable fighters generally don't get a ton of music.

True, but you’d think we would get at least one more track like “Battle! [Isaac]” which is the most iconic song of the series.

Edit: Also, bringing back Isaac’s AT and getting a Mii costume should have warranted his battle theme at least, right? Hmm?

 

[Teeb147]

Hey I saw about the mii costume! I think that's pretty great for an extra thing.
I dont see the geno one, I wonder why it's not there.