Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Flynn.Scifo]

I can already tell that one of the DLC spot will serve to promote the new fire emblem. Another will probably be a bandai namco rep (Lloyd ?). And the third is gonna be the second square enix rep.

 

[StrawHatX]

Just woke up.

Did we come up with some “Operation: Get Golden Sun back” plan?

 

[Yusa]

It's been a rough day

 

[SPEN18]

I can already tell that one of the DLC spot will serve to promote the new fire emblem. Another will probably be a bandai namco rep (Lloyd ?). And the third is gonna be the second square enix rep.

Sounds about right. Throw in a Gen 8 Pokémon and like, Dixie or someone. Sounds pretty likely.

I would be pretty happy with Lloyd, what with the RPG sword bros and Namco doing a lot of dev work for the last two Smash games. I like Fire Emblem, though I generally like the older ones way better. So I guess my feelings for a Three Houses rep would depend on how much I like the new game. But in general, none of these choices are gonna compare to somebody like Isaac or Andy who seemingly beat all odds to join the battle and saved their entire series from irrelevancy. It just felt like series like GS did their time in the AT jail and were ready to be released, but it just didn't happen.

 

[KMDP]

Another will probably be a bandai namco rep (Lloyd ?)

Personally, I'd rather the Bandai Namco rep be Agumon.

I'd argue that Digimon might reach a wider audience than the Tales series (of course, I am greatly biased. )

Or they'd go with Heihachi or Nightmare.

Bandai Namco has so many good choices.

 

[Golden Icarus]

Aside from people no Smashboards and Reddit, how many people, especially newer fans know who Isaac or even Golden Sun is?
Fire Emblem Fates and Splatoon came out in the same year, people know who Corrin is. Even when he was being added into Smash, Fates was being advertised to hell and back in the west. He is also the most unique FE Character in the roster, albeit the most disliked by FE fans.

Also to counter your second point:
Game and Watch and ROB Represent Nintendos History, ROB moreso than G&M. Marketing the NES as a Toy instead of a game saved the industry, and ROB was apart of that.

Ice Climbers and Simon our are retro representation, alongside Duck Hunt and Pit (brawl)

King K. Rool may not be relevant, but he is definitely the most popular and his fanbase is the loudest out of all the characters to be added into Smash U.
Also Donkey Kong isn't a dead franchise.

Im not saying relevancy matters, but it definitely helps. Smashboards and Reddit dont make up as nearly as much of Smash fanbase than you think it does.

You’re just trying to think of reasons that Isaac can’t be in Smash.

Do you think everyone at the NY direct were Smashboards and Reddit users? Or better yet do you think all of them were Golden Sun fans? No way. But then why did they all let out a collective “no” and “aw” when Isaac was shown as an assist? Because that doesn’t matter. They know who he is, and they know that people want him.

Or take Alpharad or Maximillian’s reactions. They sure as hell ain’t Golden Sun fans, yet they still had a strong reaction to Isaac as an assist. People care about Isaac. And with him as an assist, only more people are gonna become aware of him.

Everyone really underestimates how iconic an asssist can be. Why do you think Golden Sun was revived with Dark Dawn in the first place? Why do you think Little Mac became such a big request for Smash 4, and was able to get a reboot on the Wii? Why does anyone in the world recognize who Saki is? Assist’s grab people’s attention. And if the public’s reaction to him being deconfirmed is anything to go off of, he is already well in people’s minds.

Almost no one had ever played Mother 3 or the Fire Emblem that Roy hailed from. In fact, I’ll guarantee that over 90% of people who purchased Roy outside of Japan, only knew him from Melee. Yet people still bought him. Why? Because they remembered him from Smash. And people remember assist trophies. Especially if there an assist in the same goddamn game that they’re purchasing the DLC for.

Being a fan of the series isn’t all that makes people want to buy characters. If the character’s cool, they’ll get ‘em. And Isaac is ****ing rad.

Also on the retro point. Whoever said that third parties can be our retro character? Simon. Whoever said that dead characters can be revived if their series is still relevant? King K. Rool. Whoever said that surprise characters don’t have to be retro? Wii Fit Trainer. Whoever said that characters from existing series can be our surprise character? Piranha Plant. Precedents are broken all the time. There is no rule that states that just because Isaac isn’t a “retro character” that he can’t be revived. In the same way that there is no rule that states that assists can’t be made playable. We are still in this guys.

 

[Huanchi]

Can someone please summarize on whats the current plan? The 11th November things and if we hope for Felix now or not?

Does someone really write a physical letter ?

 

[Dee Dude]

At this point, I just want a new Golden Sun game so I try the series out since I don’t have my GBA SP anymore.

 

[Pwnapplez]

As I feel like this thread may die out, just know this.
Isaac is back as something. Nintendo heard out demands.

You know what keeps Gs alive? The fans. You want GS back? Don’t let a ****ing AT get to you.

Is it disappointing? Yeah, it is.
Is it the end? No.

We still have adult Isaac, Matthew and Felix.
Besides Geno, we don’t know the other DLC fighters. We don’t know if we will get a second season or DLC. We don’t know.

Go through the stages of grief, come back, and still love the game that made Isaac possible.

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

Good morrow, all of you. I hope everyone here is feeling better.

Yesterday was brutal. But today’s a new dawn. We’re a stubborn bunch. So let’s keep forging ahead, yeah?

I’ve made a rather important post on Twitter. Hope you’ll take the time to read it.
https://mobile.twitter.com/TheSunRisesAga2/status/1058408720152084480

 

[FantastiqueFran]

What I learned today: Apparently, people don't know the difference between a beta and a demo.

Another thing, got my money back yesterday and purchased Red Dead Redemption II. I have to admit, I didn't understand the hype for RDRII but once I got the game I gotta admit it's a very good game. It helped me get over the Isaac debacle. A Rockstar game I can get behind that isn't Grand Theft Auto (never liked any of the games besides San Andreas). I think I'll be sticking with RDRII for a while until then.

But most of you are right. We shouldn't just bombard Nintendo's Twitter page. We need a more mature and professional approach towards this meaning art, music, memes, etc. Keep the conversation going for as long as we can.

So about that fangame a few pages back. I’d be okay with doing writing for the narrative. I just need to replay the whole trilogy to feel totally comfortable doing so.

Not at all confident with programming yet. I’m just starting to learn on that front. But when I become confident on that front I could help there too.

Ah, if we're making a fan game then can I be the storyboard artist or character designer? I'm currently working towards my degree in Communication Arts and I often sketch out character designs when I'm bored, so I'd be more than happy to work on this passion project.

 

[KMDP]

You’re just trying to think of reasons that Isaac can’t be in Smash.

Do you think everyone at the NY direct were Smashboards and Reddit users? Or better yet do you think all of them were Golden Sun fans? No way. But then why did they all let out a collective “no” and “aw” when Isaac was shown as an assist? Because that doesn’t matter. They know who he is, and they know that people want him.

Or take Alpharad or Maximillian’s reactions. They sure as hell ain’t Golden Sun fans, yet they still had a strong reaction to Isaac as an assist. People care about Isaac. And with him as an assist, only more people are gonna become aware of him.

Everyone really underestimates how iconic an asssist can be. Why do you think Golden Sun was revived with Dark Dawn in the first place? Why do you think Little Mac became such a big request for Smash 4, and was able to get a reboot on the Wii? Why does anyone in the world recognize who Saki is? Assist’s grab people’s attention. And if the public’s reaction to him being deconfirmed is anything to go off of, he is already well in people’s minds.

Almost no one had ever played Mother 3 or the Fire Emblem that Roy hailed from. In fact, I’ll guarantee that over 90% of people who purchased Roy outside of Japan, only knew him from Melee. Yet people still bought him. Why? Because they remembered him from Smash. And people remember assist trophies. Especially if there an assist in the same goddamn game that they’re purchasing the DLC for.

Being a fan of the series isn’t all that makes people want to buy characters. If the character’s cool, they’ll get ‘em. And Isaac is ****ing rad.

Also on the retro point. Whoever said that third parties can be our retro character? Simon. Whoever said that dead characters can be revived if their series is still relevant? King K. Rool. Whoever said that surprise characters don’t have to be retro? Wii Fit Trainer. Whoever said that characters from existing series can be our surprise character? Piranha Plant. Precedents are broken all the time. There is no rule that states that just because Isaac isn’t a “retro character” that he can’t be revived. In the same way that there is no rule that states that assists can’t be made playable. We are still in this guys.

Well said, Golden Icarus .

 

[tbuster766]

Also an interesting thing to note was apparently I found out from the ultimate dlc thread that Chrom is still part of Robin's final smash.

 

[Confirmation]

Alright I'm working on my crazy idea but it may take some time; not gonna be able to even work on it til 4.

If people could come up with cool operation: names though that'd be nice. Operation Sunshine / Dawn / Etc. Thoughts?

 

[Gioka]

So about that fangame a few pages back. I’d be okay with with doing writing for the narrative. I just need need to replay the whole trilogy to feel totally comfortable doing so.

Not at all confident with programming yet. I’m just starting to learn on that front. But when I become confident on that front I could help there too.

I have some programming basics but I can also help with art for the game in case that is the route we decide to take, my illustration game isn't as strong as Stoic's but I know some pixel and 3D modeling

 

[tbuster766]

Alright I'm working on my crazy idea but it may take some time; not gonna be able to even work on it til 4.

If people could come up with cool operation: names though that'd be nice. Operation Sunshine / Dawn / Etc. Thoughts?

I like sunshine. I also think that Golden Sun or simply Sun also works, but that's just me

 

[TappyBat]

Can someone please summarize on whats the current plan? The 11th November things and if we hope for Felix now or not?

Does someone really write a physical letter ?

the 11th we start going on titter trying to get golden sun trending again. fan art, memes all that. we gotta let nintendo knoe we want it back!

 

[SPEN18]

tly I found out from the ultimate dlc thread that Chrom is still part of Robin's final smash.

Wait what? Can you show me this? That just seems weird. Probably doesn't change our situation much, but certainly a positive.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Just woke up.

Did we come up with some “Operation: Get Golden Sun back” plan?

Nope. The group cannot draw their focus on one thing and no strawpoll was added to ask the community which direction we should go.

 

[TappyBat]

....really guys? no plan?

 

[tbuster766]

Wait what? Can you show me this? That just seems weird. Probably doesn't change our situation much, but certainly a positive.

People were discussing it here. I recently asked where it was confirmed. https://smashboards.com/threads/sma...ulation-begins.434391/page-7146#post-22656403

Edit:
At exactly 2:00 people are saying Chrom was summoned.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un44CDKDqIY

 

[TheSpaceKing12]

Nope. The group cannot draw their focus on one thing and no strawpoll was added to ask the community which direction we should go.

Fangame sounds like the best option. If we make the game we win. If we get C&D’d we still win because the public backlash will be very large if we get anywhere.

 

[Ypsen]

I didn't want to post yesterday, fearing that I would be too sour...

But, I can't. I really can't.
Seeing Sakurai choosing a generic ennemi from a overrepresented serie before all the character he deconfirmed as AT...

I struggle to stay calm and not pissed, but that's really hard. I mask my anger behind my confusion, that's all I can do.

The most frustrating part was, that at the announcement of Ultimate, I was still thinking that GS had a really high chance to be cuck again. And then the rathalos tweet appeared. I accept to gain hope one more time, to listen to all of the optimistic fellow adepts. And I regret. And I know I shouldn't regret that. Believing is nice, it's a strength and it allows so many things to happen.
But what Sakurai just did here... it was disrespectful. Period. It feels like he asked us to stop asking or believing on anything, that he's the boss and chooses what he want, no matter how silly and un-wanted it is. And he won. Message heard.
I don't even imagine how the Waluigi fans even feel right now. I neved defend them because I didn't see Waluigi as a good newcomer, but I'll stop defending Sakurai if he'll get any backlash after this. It would be hypocritical.

That was my very firt sour comment in my life of smasher since Smash 64, I hope it would be the last.

Isaac is now dead. Shadow too. I move now to my last most wanted character remainging : Lloyd Irving. I wish you all strength and courage, fellow adepts. It was an amazing ride. I'll continue to support Isaac for the next Smash game, so see you in many years, maybe.

 

[Nauzgo]

The "home console" part makes me wonder a bit. Of course, they could be just covering all their bases but we'll see. I'm probably gonna cry if they announce Mario Golf Aces for Switch (unless...it was developed by someone other than Camelot, which would be suspicious).

I'm afraid that they'll do Mario Golf before anything else. And then there's still some other Mario sports things they could do, like Mario Sports Superstars, Mario Sports Mix or reviving Mario Strikers or Baseball. What a waste of potential (doesn't mean that Camelot's Mario Tennis games are bad tho).

 

[THE 6r]

....really guys? no plan?

I thought the 11th was a part of the greater plan.

The plan I've seen in summery consists of short-term ideas that lead into a long term strategy.

Short-term:

-Golden Sun Day(s) (November 11th, maybe even ones on June 28th and October 28th for TLA and DD)
-Creation of more fan art and remixs
-The letter(s) to Nintendo
-lay the groundwork for a K. Rool-style campaign
-UNIFY COMMUNITY FOR LONG HAUL

Long term
-keep GS in public mind and eye
-conduct a K. Rool style campaign
-fangame (?)
-Keep doing Golden Sun Day(s) annually
-KEEP THE COMMUNITY TOGETHER

This is the plan, yeah?

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

....really guys? no plan?

What would you suggest? Not being condescending, genuinely curious.

As I see here’s our only options.

Continue to campaign for Isaac, despite his AT inclusion.

Campaign for Felix.

Campaign for Mathew.

Campaign for a new Golden Sun game/remakes.

That’s really it. Personally I will not campaign for Felix or Mathew. Not because I don’t wNt to see them in Smash, but because I refuse to give up on Isaac. And I refuse to split us up. An Isaac thread, a Felix thread and a Mathew thread would, quite frankly be stupid.

I’m also going to campaign for new games. Yes, I hoped Isaac’s inclusion would help spark this, but, well, that’s not likely to happen. Doesn’t mean I won’t try anyway.

I will do my damndest to try and keep interest alive, but I know our community all too well. I already see the interest within our own community dwindling.

At this point it doesn’t really matter what we do. As long as we do something. And preferably something that requires us to leave Smashboards. This several hundred page thread isn’t going to cut it. We need to visit other sites. We need to be more vocal on social media. There’s a lot of work to be done. I just wonder if we can stick with it.

 

[Yellowlord]

I'm being honest, but I don't think we should give up on Isaac being a DLC Character... just because he's an Assist Trophy now doesn't mean he can't get upgraded later! Besides, it's literally just been a fan-rule that if you're a Assist Trophy that you're out of the game, it hasn't been a mainstream rule at all and I believe it's really shaped people's judgment on whether a character is out or not because of that.

However, if we want to get Sakurai's attention and by extension Nintendo's on how much we want Isaac, we need to let Sakurai know now. We basically need the vocal support that the K. Rool fans had that eventually managed to get him into Smash. If we do that, we might finally see him get upgraded in this game instead of having to wait until the next game.

Don't give up now, guys!

 

[Confirmation]

Nope. The group cannot draw their focus on one thing and no strawpoll was added to ask the community which direction we should go.

Gimme 2.5 hours. My harebrained schemes are second to academics

 

[Nauzgo]

I'd say that it doesn't really matter which GS character we support. If they see that there's enough demand for Isaac f.e., they could easily include Matthew instead. In the end it's about having a GS representative and that's the way this thread should go instead of focusing only on Isaac or the other 2 imo.

But maybe that's just my personal sight cause I love all 3 games and protagonists.

 

[Yellowlord]

Has anyone tried to contact the original creators of the Golden Sun games if at all? Do they even normally respond to tweets if so?

 

[jweb23]

I decide to check up here to see how everyone is doing and I see ideas of a fan game and some sort of Twitter operation...

Anyways, as it’s been stated already. If we want to make an impact with this operation then the most important thing for everyone to know and understand is to be RESPECTFUL and not annoying! Whatever we decide to do it definitely should not be rushed just to hit an anniversary date. For that, I believe the best thing to do is have someone write a nice letter and send it to NOA so they can see Golden Sun still has a strong fan base.

Now after that is the major stuff. We need art and memes! Hopefully Stoic will continue his Camelot Bros comic but we need other good artist who love the games as much as we do.

We also can not make this about Smash! We have to make this about getting a remake of the original Golden Sun games! Truth is, Golden Sun has a hard time getting new fans because the original games are not easy to obtain and play. For those wondering why we can’t make this about Smash...we don’t want to look like whiners.

Also, there are big names that love Golden Sun too. Derek and I can’t think of the other guy’s name from GameXplain but those two love Golden Sun. Zero was pushing hard for Isaac so I have to believe he is most likely a Golden Sun fan. If someone with a bit of clout...Billy...could reach out to them to help then we really could be on to something!

These are just a few ideas. I’m currently at work so I’m typing fast as well as what’s coming to the top of my head so I might have better ideas later but we need to be very smart about this.

Also I’m willing to help with the story/plot of the fan game .

 

[Oracle_Summon]

I'd say that it doesn't really matter which GS character we support. If they see that there's enough demand for Isaac f.e., they could easily include Matthew instead. In the end it's about having a GS representative and that's the way this thread should go instead of focusing only on Isaac or the other 2 imo.

But maybe that's just my personal sight cause I love all 3 games and protagonists.

What matters most is what we do as a collective unit; otherwise, Nintendo is receiving mixed messages.

 

[TheSpaceKing12]

Has anyone tried to contact the original creators of the Golden Sun games if at all? Do they even normally respond to tweets if so?

The takahashi brothers have twitter accounts. I think I followed one of them. I am not certain if they respond to tweets or would even bother attempting as I am English.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Chrom is still apart of Robin's final Smash guys.

So why can't a character be a AT and a Character?

 

[Yellowlord]

Chrom is still apart of Robin's final Smash guys.

So why can't a character be a AT and a Character?

Do we know what happens if Chrom is in the same match as Robin when the latter character uses his Final Smash?

 

[THE 6r]

Chrom is still apart of Robin's final Smash guys.

So why can't a character be a AT and a Character?

I mean, there's really no reason at this point. That argument is effectively dead now. We've got hope again. We just need to be organized.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Or take Alpharad or Maximillian’s reactions. They sure as hell ain’t Golden Sun fans, yet they still had a strong reaction to Isaac as an assist. People care about Isaac. And with him as an assist, only more people are gonna become aware of him.

Maybe if they care about Isaac so much; they could show support instead of posting LOL SALT memes.

 

[THE 6r]

Maybe if they care about Isaac so much; they could show support instead of posting LOL SALT memes.

Well we can reach out to them and other big personalities on GS Day.

 

[Frosty Pops]

How how you use Daddy Isaac against me

Hey...daddy isaac is NOT deconfirmed!!!

 

[tbuster766]

As Chrom says, "Everything can change!".