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Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday
- Thread starter N3ON
- Start date
SonicLink125
Smash Lord
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If anyone thinks that trying to get Isaac in through DLC is a futile cause, Don't! There is no set rule that an AT cannot be promoted. And we won't know unless we try. And not just try, DO!
Here's the thing, the moment we stop now, then Isaac will never get in either through DLC or the next Smash game. But, if we push hard for DLC, then two likely outcomes will happen:
1) Isaac gets in as a DLC character.
2) DLC ends without Isaac, BUT will be highly more considered and have a greater chance for the next game.
K. Rool comes to mind on this. He most likely was THE #1 voted character of the entire Smash Ballot, but he got in as a costume in 4. But later, he's now a character. Isaac needs our support more than ever and even if DLC doesn't happen for him, Sakurai and his team and Nintendo will know that Isaac is greatly desired and will consider him more likely to be playable in the next one. But if we stop now, then they'll think he was a fad of some kind. So, don't give up adepts!
Here's the thing, the moment we stop now, then Isaac will never get in either through DLC or the next Smash game. But, if we push hard for DLC, then two likely outcomes will happen:
1) Isaac gets in as a DLC character.
2) DLC ends without Isaac, BUT will be highly more considered and have a greater chance for the next game.
K. Rool comes to mind on this. He most likely was THE #1 voted character of the entire Smash Ballot, but he got in as a costume in 4. But later, he's now a character. Isaac needs our support more than ever and even if DLC doesn't happen for him, Sakurai and his team and Nintendo will know that Isaac is greatly desired and will consider him more likely to be playable in the next one. But if we stop now, then they'll think he was a fad of some kind. So, don't give up adepts!
Huanchi
Smash Apprentice
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I always thought that this is the main one couse it have 130 people on it and it was posted when it was created in this thread and mentioned again yesterday i believe. I dont know any other
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Chrom's really opening some floodgates now for already deconfirmed characters, huh...
(Also, Full Diving's done with~)
Ninetales Commander
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If someone can send me the link to Robin's Final Smash, please do, I'm having trouble finding it.
LuminoZero
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Last edited:
Tetiro
Smash Ace
https://www.reddit.com/r/GoldenSun/comments/9tdd2h/november_11th_hey_golden_sun_fans_a_quick_word/
Here you go chum!
Also, did anyone else see this?
There was a problem fetching the tweet
Unlike most people, this guy actually has connections to Nintendo. I've seen him on stage over here in the UK for Nintendo's convention appearances multiple times
tbuster766
Smash Journeyman
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"Reasons I can't and won't share publicly."
Hmmmm
Capybara Gaming
Just Vibing
So, there might be actual legal reasoning that might have prevented Isaac's inclusion as a playable character for now.
Confirmation
Smash Ace
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Alright, time for my mad idea. Buckle your belts.
We're reeling from a bad day. Half the site got snapped and people are still pretty heated about it. As a fan group, we're still unsure on what to do and how to carry ourselves forward.
Many are saying we should put out a fan letter. Others a fangame. Some say Golden Sunday is the way, potentially getting to trending on Twitter as a way of showing our dedication. These are all fine ideas, but they have one key issue:
They all are negative.
The fan letter professes our disappointment, the fangame born not as a symbol of dedication and love as it should be, but as a means of poking the bear and testing Nintendo's willingness to send a cease & desist, Golden Sunday is already presented as a collective uproar of unhappy Golden Sun fans. Each of these methods have all been tried and done by bigger franchises and in some cases have led to success, but at the cost of souring everyone's perception of the groups. Ridley and K. Rool aren't viewed as having professed their devotion to their characters enough to convince Sakurai of their benefits, but merely as kicking and screaming enough for Sakurai to finally pay attention. Waluigi has done all of the above, and look how people treat his fans. To try and go down this road can only lead to disaster, as we'd already be second fiddle to other fanbases. No, if we're going to turn heads we're going to have to use our biggest asset and strength:
Our positivity.
You can't throw a rock in Smashboards without hitting two threads that have had Isaac fans stop by to offer support. Outside of a few users on GameFaqs, everyone says we're pretty chill. Fanart immediately comes out after other characters have been revealed featuring Isaac and offering support to the new guys. We take hits like this and just think it's another Thursday. We get along with pretty much every support thread. If we go down this path of being loudly unhappy and unpleasant, we're going to throw away something awesome that's been in the making for years and has resulted in everyone being bummed that Isaac isn't playable. So here's my crazy, crazy plan that's never been done before, Operation Lighthouse:
We show everyone just how awesome the Golden Sun community is and how much Smash would be a more positive place with Isaac's inclusion. Brighten someone else's day. Think of those hours you would've put into playing Isaac and do some volunteer work. Take 5 minutes and doodle some MS Paint art of a Venus Djinn. Overall, Be a bro. Let's be a beacon of positivity and channel all this energy from the Direct in the one way literally nobody expects the Smash community to do: productively.
I took a couple minutes and made something I haven't ever seen before: A Golden Sun Smash logo. It's completely goofy and rough around the edges, but I thought it was fun to make and gives us something to work towards. I hope people can look at this and feel a little more encouraged that we aren't done just yet.
Smile and have a good day, you all, we've got a lot of work ahead of us.
We're reeling from a bad day. Half the site got snapped and people are still pretty heated about it. As a fan group, we're still unsure on what to do and how to carry ourselves forward.
Many are saying we should put out a fan letter. Others a fangame. Some say Golden Sunday is the way, potentially getting to trending on Twitter as a way of showing our dedication. These are all fine ideas, but they have one key issue:
They all are negative.
The fan letter professes our disappointment, the fangame born not as a symbol of dedication and love as it should be, but as a means of poking the bear and testing Nintendo's willingness to send a cease & desist, Golden Sunday is already presented as a collective uproar of unhappy Golden Sun fans. Each of these methods have all been tried and done by bigger franchises and in some cases have led to success, but at the cost of souring everyone's perception of the groups. Ridley and K. Rool aren't viewed as having professed their devotion to their characters enough to convince Sakurai of their benefits, but merely as kicking and screaming enough for Sakurai to finally pay attention. Waluigi has done all of the above, and look how people treat his fans. To try and go down this road can only lead to disaster, as we'd already be second fiddle to other fanbases. No, if we're going to turn heads we're going to have to use our biggest asset and strength:
Our positivity.
You can't throw a rock in Smashboards without hitting two threads that have had Isaac fans stop by to offer support. Outside of a few users on GameFaqs, everyone says we're pretty chill. Fanart immediately comes out after other characters have been revealed featuring Isaac and offering support to the new guys. We take hits like this and just think it's another Thursday. We get along with pretty much every support thread. If we go down this path of being loudly unhappy and unpleasant, we're going to throw away something awesome that's been in the making for years and has resulted in everyone being bummed that Isaac isn't playable. So here's my crazy, crazy plan that's never been done before, Operation Lighthouse:
We show everyone just how awesome the Golden Sun community is and how much Smash would be a more positive place with Isaac's inclusion. Brighten someone else's day. Think of those hours you would've put into playing Isaac and do some volunteer work. Take 5 minutes and doodle some MS Paint art of a Venus Djinn. Overall, Be a bro. Let's be a beacon of positivity and channel all this energy from the Direct in the one way literally nobody expects the Smash community to do: productively.
I took a couple minutes and made something I haven't ever seen before: A Golden Sun Smash logo. It's completely goofy and rough around the edges, but I thought it was fun to make and gives us something to work towards. I hope people can look at this and feel a little more encouraged that we aren't done just yet.
Smile and have a good day, you all, we've got a lot of work ahead of us.
Spootondorf
Smash Apprentice
It's good to see some more people talking about a fan game. I'm not sure why there doesn't seem to be more interest in making one.... Is it the amount of effort that would be required? The possibility that it might be taken down by Nintendo? Or just that people were still very hopeful for Isaac's inclusion in Ultimate and didn't want to "settle" for less? Well, it's time to give Isaac a better moveset than what he had in Super Smash Flash 2, at least!
I think the purpose of a fan game should be at least threefold: to satisfy fans to some extent, to show Sakurai that GS's characters are viable for Smash fighters, and to show Nintendo and Camelot that there is great interest in the GS series. It occurred to me last night that three of my most-wanted (and all roster-absent) characters share a sun/sunlight theme: Isaac, Amaterasu (from Okami), and Solaire (from Dark Souls). So, here's an idea: we capitalize on this theme by drawing in Okami and Dark Souls fans to the cause (I'm a fan of all three characters and series <- admission of a selfish interest). Suppose we create a mini Smash game with just those characters as the starting roster, and build from there (naturally, it would contain more GS characters than Dark Souls and Okami characters in the end). And to drum up support and show updates, we create a website with a forum. Think of it like Brawl's Smash Dojo, but with discussion boards for characters, modes, etc. The website will be called something like "Solar Sanctuary" (to mimic "Sol Sanctum"). Its initial appeal will be to advocate for a Warrior of Sunlight (Solaire), our Golden Son (Isaac), and the sun goddess (Amaterasu). Perhaps the most important part, though, is that none of these characters will be a carbon copy of their sources, so the visuals, animations, names, and attacks will not be exactly the same as what we've seen in their games. Same goes for any musical compositions. Basically, make it impervious to being taken down, but make the characters strongly resemble whom they're suppposed to represent in every respect possible.
(I should note here that Dark Souls is published by Bandai Namco, so their eyes may be drawn to this if it includes a Dark Souls character.)
Now, because visuals are so important to gaining support, try this on for size as a promotion:
Solaire, Isaac, and Amaterasu are gathered around a campfire of the same size as the bonfires from Dark Souls, in an arc of about 135 degrees and facing the viewer, with the campfire in the foreground. Solaire, on the left, is in a typical Dark Souls sitting pose. Isaac, standing and in the middle, is seen lighting the fire with Mars Psynergy or a Mars djinni. Amaterasu, on the right, is in her resting pose from Okami. Not only does this look good visually, but as an homage to Dark Souls, it indicates that these characters *coughbutdefinitelyIsaaccough* will not stay down -- they will come back again, and again, and again until their purpose is fulfilled (getting into Smash). The sun will rise, so praise it! This emblem will be displayed prominently on the aforementioned website.
Btw, there is plenty of move potential for Amaterasu, and a sufficient amount for Solaire. It wouldn't be hard at all to come up with great movesets for either -- and, as we all know, Isaac's possibilities for a moveset are numerous!
So let's do all we can to SHOW our golden boy's viability and popularity, not just tell about it. And when I say "all we can", I mean that we should use other fanbases to our advantage (fairly to them, of course).
What think ye all?
I think the purpose of a fan game should be at least threefold: to satisfy fans to some extent, to show Sakurai that GS's characters are viable for Smash fighters, and to show Nintendo and Camelot that there is great interest in the GS series. It occurred to me last night that three of my most-wanted (and all roster-absent) characters share a sun/sunlight theme: Isaac, Amaterasu (from Okami), and Solaire (from Dark Souls). So, here's an idea: we capitalize on this theme by drawing in Okami and Dark Souls fans to the cause (I'm a fan of all three characters and series <- admission of a selfish interest). Suppose we create a mini Smash game with just those characters as the starting roster, and build from there (naturally, it would contain more GS characters than Dark Souls and Okami characters in the end). And to drum up support and show updates, we create a website with a forum. Think of it like Brawl's Smash Dojo, but with discussion boards for characters, modes, etc. The website will be called something like "Solar Sanctuary" (to mimic "Sol Sanctum"). Its initial appeal will be to advocate for a Warrior of Sunlight (Solaire), our Golden Son (Isaac), and the sun goddess (Amaterasu). Perhaps the most important part, though, is that none of these characters will be a carbon copy of their sources, so the visuals, animations, names, and attacks will not be exactly the same as what we've seen in their games. Same goes for any musical compositions. Basically, make it impervious to being taken down, but make the characters strongly resemble whom they're suppposed to represent in every respect possible.
(I should note here that Dark Souls is published by Bandai Namco, so their eyes may be drawn to this if it includes a Dark Souls character.)
Now, because visuals are so important to gaining support, try this on for size as a promotion:
Solaire, Isaac, and Amaterasu are gathered around a campfire of the same size as the bonfires from Dark Souls, in an arc of about 135 degrees and facing the viewer, with the campfire in the foreground. Solaire, on the left, is in a typical Dark Souls sitting pose. Isaac, standing and in the middle, is seen lighting the fire with Mars Psynergy or a Mars djinni. Amaterasu, on the right, is in her resting pose from Okami. Not only does this look good visually, but as an homage to Dark Souls, it indicates that these characters *coughbutdefinitelyIsaaccough* will not stay down -- they will come back again, and again, and again until their purpose is fulfilled (getting into Smash). The sun will rise, so praise it! This emblem will be displayed prominently on the aforementioned website.
Btw, there is plenty of move potential for Amaterasu, and a sufficient amount for Solaire. It wouldn't be hard at all to come up with great movesets for either -- and, as we all know, Isaac's possibilities for a moveset are numerous!
So let's do all we can to SHOW our golden boy's viability and popularity, not just tell about it. And when I say "all we can", I mean that we should use other fanbases to our advantage (fairly to them, of course).
What think ye all?
Ninetales Commander
Smash Cadet
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If there's anything I can take from the grinch leak it's that I absolutely refuse to believe leaks. The grinch leak was so convincing that it lead me to actually believing that it was real, if you think I'm gonna make the same mistake with some text from some dude that has connections to Nintendo, think again.
Gurein
Smash Apprentice
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HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
SuperNintendoKid
Smash Lord
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but i dont want matthew, i want isaac
what conceivable reason would matthew have over isaac? they're practically the same character and are owned by the same company.
Huanchi
Smash Apprentice
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Pichu doesnt do self damage anymore???
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Sabrewulf238
Smash Hero
I honestly have mixed feelings right now. I don't want to give up on Isaac but I also don't want to hope for anything either. I don't want to start thinking little things could mean something when they mean nothing.
I'm still practicing my drawing skills so I want to try drawing some art promoting Isaac for Smash but I don't think I can really hope for anything. (it just feels like something I ought to do)
I'm still practicing my drawing skills so I want to try drawing some art promoting Isaac for Smash but I don't think I can really hope for anything. (it just feels like something I ought to do)
Gurein
Smash Apprentice
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I believe we should still ask for Isaac no matter what. This is what we want, and this may finally break the curse of the AT, giving hope to our fellow Camelotbro.
but i dont want matthew, i want isaac
what conceivable reason would matthew have over isaac? they're practically the same character and are owned by the same company.
I personally prefer Felix, but Isaac is the logical choice so GO ISAAC
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SuperNintendoKid
Smash Lord
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i think he only damages himself if his attacks actually hit something, could be wrong though
on a side note, young link's final smash is just triforce slash and not fierce deity link, and that's really disappointing :C
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SorrowOfAcheron
Smash Journeyman
Apparently Chrom is still in Robin's FS so I guess the 'characters appearing as part of others' movesets can't be playable' law thing has been shattered.
Different situation for Isaac obviously but ehh
Also I think who we push for is not really important in terms of Golden Sun. Sakurai and the team are probably aware we want representation; I don't think we're going to decide which GS character we get. I like Sveta and Piers, but I realize those choices would be weird to GS fans (even to me, kinda).
So I guess what I'm saying is I'm backing any Golden Sunner.
If we're not counting Isaac, I think Felix and Matthew are the obvious choices.
Different situation for Isaac obviously but ehh
Also I think who we push for is not really important in terms of Golden Sun. Sakurai and the team are probably aware we want representation; I don't think we're going to decide which GS character we get. I like Sveta and Piers, but I realize those choices would be weird to GS fans (even to me, kinda).
So I guess what I'm saying is I'm backing any Golden Sunner.
If we're not counting Isaac, I think Felix and Matthew are the obvious choices.
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Gurein
Smash Apprentice
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Like I said before, Isaac all the way.
Common people might recognize Isaac, but certainly not Matthew and Felix. We can't lose our momentum and go for someone else. Go go Isaac!
SuperNintendoKid
Smash Lord
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isaac is the face of golden sun so i say we go for getting him out of AT hell
Gurein
Smash Apprentice
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You don't have to hope, just FIGHT!
Whichever we do, we need to agree on it and fast.
Sabrewulf238
Smash Hero
Frankly I don't really care about Matthew aside from him being a Golden Sun character.
I'll be pushing for Isaac anyway.
Confirmation
Smash Ace
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Pwnapplez
Smash Ace
I say we still stick with voting on Isaac.
We have adult Isaac
We have adult Isaac
Guybrush20X6
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I'd say in the case of a vote, stick to voting Isaac. If nothing else, he may be added in Super DUPER Smash Bros.
DCavalier
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Hey i might try turning this into an actual 3D logo.Alright, time for my mad idea. Buckle your belts.
We're reeling from a bad day. Half the site got snapped and people are still pretty heated about it. As a fan group, we're still unsure on what to do and how to carry ourselves forward.
Many are saying we should put out a fan letter. Others a fangame. Some say Golden Sunday is the way, potentially getting to trending on Twitter as a way of showing our dedication. These are all fine ideas, but they have one key issue:
They all are negative.
The fan letter professes our disappointment, the fangame born not as a symbol of dedication and love as it should be, but as a means of poking the bear and testing Nintendo's willingness to send a cease & desist, Golden Sunday is already presented as a collective uproar of unhappy Golden Sun fans. Each of these methods have all been tried and done by bigger franchises and in some cases have led to success, but at the cost of souring everyone's perception of the groups. Ridley and K. Rool aren't viewed as having professed their devotion to their characters enough to convince Sakurai of their benefits, but merely as kicking and screaming enough for Sakurai to finally pay attention. Waluigi has done all of the above, and look how people treat his fans. To try and go down this road can only lead to disaster, as we'd already be second fiddle to other fanbases. No, if we're going to turn heads we're going to have to use our biggest asset and strength:
Our positivity.
You can't throw a rock in Smashboards without hitting two threads that have had Isaac fans stop by to offer support. Outside of a few users on GameFaqs, everyone says we're pretty chill. Fanart immediately comes out after other characters have been revealed featuring Isaac and offering support to the new guys. We take hits like this and just think it's another Thursday. We get along with pretty much every support thread. If we go down this path of being loudly unhappy and unpleasant, we're going to throw away something awesome that's been in the making for years and has resulted in everyone being bummed that Isaac isn't playable. So here's my crazy, crazy plan that's never been done before, Operation Lighthouse:
We show everyone just how awesome the Golden Sun community is and how much Smash would be a more positive place with Isaac's inclusion. Brighten someone else's day. Think of those hours you would've put into playing Isaac and do some volunteer work. Take 5 minutes and doodle some MS Paint art of a Venus Djinn. Overall, Be a bro. Let's be a beacon of positivity and channel all this energy from the Direct in the one way literally nobody expects the Smash community to do: productively.
I took a couple minutes and made something I haven't ever seen before: A Golden Sun Smash logo. It's completely goofy and rough around the edges, but I thought it was fun to make and gives us something to work towards. I hope people can look at this and feel a little more encouraged that we aren't done just yet.
Smile and have a good day, you all, we've got a lot of work ahead of us.
I have basic Blender skills so it might turn ok.
Will post it if I thinks is somewhat good.
TheSpaceKing12
Banned via Warnings
Project Flint is not an C&D worthy new derivative within the GS universe. But a new property entirely that is being created that is heavily derived from Golden Sun's concepts. The first thought was fangame, but spiritual successor came after. That's what we're on now.
Sabrewulf238
Smash Hero
The thing is though. If they added Matthew to promote GS4 (if it even exists) then they'd really have no reason not to include Isaac as an alph-like alt.
It seems like something that would be painfully simple and make a lot of people very happy for the amount of work needed to go into it. (they already have the Isaac model they created for ultimate)
Of course Golden Sun 4 has to exist first for that to be anything other than a pipe dream.
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Splendid_Days
Smash Rookie
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- Sep 15, 2018
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I think we need to just stop listening to fan made rules at this point.
Assist was knocked out by Mac. Too big was blown away by Ridley. Ditto for K rool and the irrelevancy argument. Costumes by Inklings, Dark Samus, Chrom, and again K Rool. Piranha Plant bites the goomba with a hat argument. And now this.
Now I'm not going to get my hopes to high but believe me we know nothing about how DLC will be picked so just keeping supporting the character you love.
Isaac4SmashUltimate
Smash Apprentice
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A fan game or a spiritual successor for Golden Sun would be cool to play and see. Alas, I don't have any experience in making games, but I want to make games. I have ideas for Langrisser like games.
Gurein
Smash Apprentice
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By the way, can someone tell me what exactly is "Golden Sunday"? I'd like to participate, whatever it is.
Not sure, since it's obvious that Sakurai actually wants himself to have Rex in. But who knows. I'm a huge Xenoblade fan and would love to see more Xenoblade representation in smash, coupled with a Golden Sun rep of course
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OptimisticStrifer
Smash Champion
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I'm pretty goddamn annoyed that people are saying we should be happy with our assist trophy. I'm sure if Snake got turned into an assist people wouldn't say "I'm so grateful he's in! 
"
"
It wouldn't hurt. But there are some playable characters that have Mii costumes, so maybe it wouldn't help too much. Of course, they'd be the first as far as I know to have a Mii costume and AFTER that become playable, so that's something.
I think people still would debate about ATs being playable even if that happened.
Not 100% sure, but I think it's referring to the thread in the Golden Sun Reddit where every Sunday people can just talk about whatever, sort of as a communal gathering for GS fans.
Edit: as an aside, I am really shocked Rex was a Mii costume shown before the game comes out, whether or not he is DLC.
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LuminoZero
Smash Apprentice
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So, another nugget from the Discord.
When considering the ballot, they could have easily phrased the question as "Which characters would you pay for?"
We need to consider the ballot for what it was, a way to make money off of the game. Take a few characters from it for the base game to get people to buy the game to start with, then nickle and dime them with the other ones that they already know fans will pay for (we told them as much). This is part of the reason I am confident both Geno and B&K are DLC, but it also applies to Isaac.
He did well. They know he will sell DLC, so why not capitalize on the fandom to make a little bit of money with it?
When considering the ballot, they could have easily phrased the question as "Which characters would you pay for?"
We need to consider the ballot for what it was, a way to make money off of the game. Take a few characters from it for the base game to get people to buy the game to start with, then nickle and dime them with the other ones that they already know fans will pay for (we told them as much). This is part of the reason I am confident both Geno and B&K are DLC, but it also applies to Isaac.
He did well. They know he will sell DLC, so why not capitalize on the fandom to make a little bit of money with it?
Zalaresh
Smash Apprentice
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I'm not sure with that one. If Rex and Pyra were added first, I would only start wondering if the relevancy argument would come into play. Considering Nintendo would probably prioritize upcoming titles, or third parties. As much as I would be happy that Rex and Prya got in, I actually think it would hinder Isaac's chances with potentially only 5 spots left. Now if Isaac was revealed, then I would imagine speculation would be all over the place.
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