Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Nossnitro102]

Yeah I cooled off somewhat. Still won't be feeling the best about it for a while but I'm not really mad anymore. Just. Empty? Yeah. Empty.

 

[Sentinel07]

https://youtu.be/25697W2jgZI

It's around 23:47.

Okay, seeing that actually made me feel a little better.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

You know what I am genuinely surprised about? The lack of Isaac hate. I saw people bashing him during the Smash 4 days, but they all seem absent.

I don't get it. I legitimately do not get it.

Anyways, this should be a sign for us and raises a big question to the Golden Sun community.

Do you want to keep trying to put someone from Golden Sun into Smash as a playable character no matter how long it takes, including the fact that Sakurai has shown he has no idea how to implement a moveset for the main protagonist.

Or

Do you want to strive for Nintendo not to give up on our beloved series?

The world is starting to crumble and something needs to be done about the lighthouses. What do we do with them?

We need to choose, time is of the essence.

I vote Smash. Cause with Smash Success; comes revitalized interest. So we basically get the best of both worlds.

 

[TempestSurge]

Many of us, myself included, are upset that Isaac's AT wasn't shown earlier. But one positive we can take away from this is that waiting it out until the end allowed us to drum up a lot more hype for the character. Even if he isn't DLC, the response to the Rathalos tweet, GS trending on twitter, the sprout item, and the Grinch leak have all helped raise awareness for Isaac. I agree it was a dumb decision by Sakurai to wait until the very end to slaughter most of the Smash fanbase's hopes and dreams, but we can still take away some good results from a bad decision.

I guess in hindsight another positive is that being among the last reveals of information, Isaac's deconfirmation is more fresh in people's minds for people to be more vocally upset at the outcome compared to if he were shown off at E3 as people would have started moving on to discussing other characters and potential newcomers who would make the roster.

 

[TheSpaceKing12]

I held it down all day. But here they are. Tears. I know I should be grateful. I really and truly do think I should. By why, I really can't say I got anyone I truly wanted this run around. I know things could very well chance and from that angle, I just have to hold on. But man, this was cruel.

 

[N3ON]

You know what I am genuinely surprised about? The lack of Isaac hate. I saw people bashing him during the Smash 4 days, but they all seem absent.

I don't get it. I legitimately do not get it.

Shoulda gone on any site other than here and reddit. Actually, it's probably best you didn't...

 

[Rayleigh]

Howdy folks, back from the Holosseum.

--------------

After playing the Beta for Fallout 76, I was contemplating the notion of my own choice, but this led me to think about you Golden Boys as well. So...I guess you could consider this another post about keeping up the faith:

While looking through the Direct, I noticed that the coin shop appears to be under a rotation cycle for its inventory. We are shown that there is a Captain Falcon costume, showing that playable characters can have costumes. While many people thought that some costumes in Smash4 signaled a character would become playable in Smash5 (and such so far appears to be inaccurate), its still something to think about when it comes to representation. We might see an Issac costume for Mii Swordsmen, to match the assist trophy and spirit representation!

When it comes to the spirits, we see that some can evolve, and that these spirits can also be of the characters that are playable. This means that those spirits of characters such as Golden Sun's Matthew and our boi Ray MKlll of course are not discounted as becoming playable themselves!

When it comes to Issac himself, it seems a little bleak at first...but, and while it might seem like a fool's hope, we have no evidence to suggest that assist trophies cannot be patched out of the game in order to be made fully playable. But you gotta keep the faith, and keep on talking as though he could be added tomorrow. Not because you think it will happen, but because you want it to happen...and the day will come when it happens, and it'll be because of all those past moments of positive reflection on the series you love. The continued drive and desire for Golden Sun saw its return to the game, and there's nothing from stopping more from coming in tomorrow!

So...Keep the faith, Golden Boys. It might not be much, but I'm rooting for you.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

This is the Matthew support thread. We are voting for all Golden Sun Characters. We should speak in one voice and not split up the threads.

Awesome #MatthewForDLC

 

[B00M]

Hoo boy. Super disappointed like everyone here that Isaac isn't playable, but I'm equally bummed by the assist trophy. Was actually excited to see a new model, but it just seems off to me. There's a general lack of detail, the proportions don't look quite right, his legs appear to start below the end of his "skirt", and the hair texture is way too plastic-y. The Brawl model is still my favorite 3D Isaac.

On top of the appearance (and the voice which I don't think fits at all), why is Isaac stuck using only utility psynergy? Glad he has more than "Move" now, but where are the earthquakes, platforms/spires/vines erupting out of the ground, weapon attacks/unleashes, djinni and summons? Of course it's possible he does more than what was shown off, but I'm doubtful. If I wasn't already a huge fan of Isaac from the Golden Sun games, nothing I've seen in Smash would make me interested in him and that's truly a shame for a character and series with so much potential.

Been rooting for Isaac since Brawl was announced and not gonna stop now though. Who knows, maybe adult Isaac with his badass beard and trenchcoat (Felix or Matthew also acceptable) will get one of the coveted DLC slots and have all of the flashy moves his assist trophy appears to be missing.

 

[SPEN18]

I really can't say I got anyone I truly wanted this run around.

yeah, my top three have been Isaac/Andy/Lyn for a good long while and I haven't got squat to show for it. I feel you.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Shoulda gone on any site other than here and reddit. Actually, it's probably best you didn't...

Not that, but I have not seen the Smash Community itself hate Isaac is what I am saying. Nobody that I have came across, besides 4chan and Gamefaqs, has had the same negative things to say about Isaac like they did in Smash 4.

 

[Silo777]

Despite Nintendo dropping the ball here, I’m not going to completely give up. I’m still hopeful for that chance of Sakurai looking at Isaac’s AT and the backlash and saying “We can do better.” and start developing him for DLC. I’m no expecting anything, and I’m not going to be following the speculation scene for DLC really, but I’ll have that hope in the back of my mind.

Also, why can nobody seem to get Isaac’s face right? The renders I’ve seen are usually fine until they get to the face and then...yeah. I will say Isaac’s hair on the AT is pretty spot on.

 

[Metocles]

Hoo boy. Super disappointed like everyone here that Isaac isn't playable, but I'm equally bummed by the assist trophy. Was actually excited to see a new model, but it just seems off to me. There's a general lack of detail, the proportions don't look quite right, his legs appear to start below the end of his "skirt", and the hair texture is way too plastic-y. The Brawl model is still my favorite 3D Isaac.

On top of the appearance (and the voice which I don't think fits at all), why is Isaac stuck using only utility psynergy? Glad he has more than "Move" now, but where are the earthquakes, platforms/spires/vines erupting out of the ground, weapon attacks/unleashes, djinni and summons? Of course it's possible he does more than what was shown off, but I'm doubtful. If I wasn't already a huge fan of Isaac from the Golden Sun games, nothing I've seen in Smash would make me interested in him and that's truly a shame for a character and series with so much potential.

Been rooting for Isaac since Brawl was announced and not gonna stop now though. Who knows, maybe adult Isaac with his badass beard and trenchcoat (Felix or Matthew also acceptable) will get one of the coveted DLC slots and have all of the flashy moves his assist trophy appears to be missing.

Yeah, I thought it was just me, but he looks a little bit gangly. Maybe that's just because of his boots and gloves are more prominent on his model and make his arms and legs stand out as just looking like noodles?

And you touched on my main concern. Hopefully we see him doing more than just hands. If we don't, it feels like he was passed off to an intern who read the description of the premise behind Golden Sun characters on wikipedia. Or just looked at Brawl's AT and said, "WHAT CAN I DO WITH HANDS....?"

Sticks out like a sore thumb, sorry for the pun.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

Guys I know you all want to think there is still hope somewhere but take a moment to really think about it, splitting up like this and supporting Matthew or Felix makes no sens and worst will only turn our fanbase into a mess of characters and do us more bad than good. Isaac is the original Golden Sun main character, If he can't make it in why would Felix or Matthew do, it makes no sens.
I highly recommend you reconsider and stay focused on Isaac as it's the only way to show true unbreakable support to nintendo.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Guys I know you all want to think there is still hope somewhere but take a moment to really think about it, splitting up like this and supporting Matthew or Felix makes no sens and worst will only turn our fanbase into a mess of characters and do us more bad than good. Isaac is the original Golden Sun main character, If he can't make it in why would Felix or Matthew do, it makes no sens.
I highly recommend you reconsider and stay focused on Isaac as it's the only way to show true unbreakable support to nintendo.

^ This. We cannot achieve as much if we split up. Our efforts are best when we focus on one goal.

We need to decide as a unit what we are going to do to stop Golden Sun from being a dead series.

 

[Clumsyzephyr]

I'm trying my best to hype myself up for the game again, but it just isn't working.

 

[TheSpaceKing12]

I'm trying my best to hype myself up for the game again, but it just isn't working.

Given that Xenoblade gives me life and thus I am spiritually bound to buy this product no matter what, and given that monolith soft content exists in this game I was going to buy it no matter what and be happy with it. That having been said, this is a brutally crushing defeat. But I'm seriously gonna try and prevent it from impacting my overall thoughts on the game.

 

[Gioka]

Well, I have let my own feelings about the whole thing settle a bit, am I still disappointed? Sure as hell. But I will keep pushing, here, twitter, anywhere, for Isaac and for Golden Sun. For most of us this has been also a means to an end of reviving Golden Sun. Perhaps we will get that.

Anyways, with this, many things are left unclear. I don't want to put everyone hopes up because we are just getting out of a big blow but remember the K. Rool trademark? It was in 2015, allegedly when the roster was decided and the development for Smash Ultimate started. So now we know two things: 1. Renewing a trademark isn't necessary for Smash non-playable appearances (judging by the Custom Robo content in spirits and the MKIII mii costume) and 2. Golden Sun got a renewal this year, even though it was unnecessary because it wasn't expiring anytime soon, and was actually added some new things like downloadable home video game console program, downloadable program for portable electronic video game console and the likes. We know the other trademarks renewed were scheduled to prescribe but Golden Sun wasn't, they just seemingly wanted to update the terms of the trademark. If they are indeed starting DLC development this year as Sakurai said (excluding Piranha plant), then maybe Isaac is one of those hence why the trademark was renewed at the same time as development is said to begin (as it happened with K. Rool).

Or maybe it means similarly that a new Golden Sun is about to start being developed by Camelot (since the are now free of Mario Tennis and the development for Aces should have been finished as late as Q1 of this year at most.) since the trademark also includes program for home video game console and program for portable video game console. Either way both could be excellent news for us Golden Sun fans, just wanted to share some good vibes back to all of us

 

[Silo777]

^ This. We cannot achieve as much if we split up. Our efforts are best when we focus on one goal.

We need to decide as a unit what we are going to do to stop Golden Sun from being a dead series.

Yup. If anyone is getting in, it’s going to be Isaac. No other Golden Sun character even comes remotely close to his popularity. Heck, a ton of people know Golden Sun because of Isaac. He has a prevalent role in all three games, and is the face of the franchise. We need to keep pushing for Isaac. If we split up, we lose the precious momentum we’ve gained.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

After having about the full day to consider things and accept the game for what it is and what it isn't, I just have one real disappointment from this process.

Our love, our support, our tears, etc. weren't enough to resurrect a dead character from a dead franchise. King K. Rool is so far the only character that has come back after an extended absence because of fan support (I'm not counting Dark Samus because she's too bloody easy to make). And he has the wonderful benefit of having had a major presence in other games up until his disappearance and belonging to a series that could remain relevant through the years.

So maybe we could bring back a dead character, we might even get another if Geno prevails through DLC (I'm not super hopeful, but hey, he's alive and I'll take it). But a dead franchise? That's apparently not a mountain that all the fan support in the world could overcome. Sure, we want a new Golden Sun game and a return to form for Camelot in the RPG genre, but that's not what we were asking here. We wanted a character, a beloved character from a beloved franchise that admittedly did not blow away sells expectations, but sold decently in its inception, to be in Smash as a playable fighter.

Isaac and Golden Sun was by far the biggest first party IP that we championed as fans. I never saw another even come close in terms of the fan art, consistent placement on fan polls, or in the overall outpouring from the community at large. Hell, only Banjo Kazooie could even rival the support Golden Sun in terms of third party IPs from what I saw. Sure, you can say response bias as the most ardent supporters flocked to places like here and Reddit, but that presence has been more than notable I can assure you. Perhaps it wasn't enough at the time of the ballot? But I've seen it recently, and I don't imagine another franchise has come close.

But we weren't enough. Sakurai seems to be putting a line in the sand as to what we as fans can achieve. We can revive a single character. But a dead franchise? That's reserved only for those that Sakurai takes interest in (Kid Icarus, Ice Climbers, etc.) And that's a damn shame that we can't bring back a franchise. That was my big fear that got me into a lot of arguments in the past couple weeks. That Isaac's status as from a dead franchise meant he had a bigger obstacle to overcome, and that even with our love and support, Sakurai wouldn't consider him a priority. I think that's pretty clearly what has happened here.

And with the assist trophy reveal he didn't even give Isaac and Golden Sun fans a chance for future DLC. He hard deconfirmed Isaac in the last possible hour of Smash speculation. And that just freaking hurts all around...

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

My blue is for you all as well

 

[Organization XIII]

Guys. We have got to stop perpetuating this idea that ATs stop DLC. There is no actual proof that ATs can't be DLC it's a fan rule. It might not happen sure but until Sakurai comes in and says he has no intention of ever making AT characters DLC then it's not true. We know ATs can become full characters though and with all the additions to ATs they are even closer to full characters than ever before providing a very convenient base to develop from instead of fully building from scratch. Hope isn't lost.

 

[Weeman]

This thread is feeling me with both sadness and hope.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Guys. We have got to stop perpetuating this idea that ATs stop DLC. There is no actual proof that ATs can't be DLC it's a fan rule. It might not happen sure but until Sakurai comes in and says he has no intention of ever making AT characters DLC then it's not true. We know ATs can become full characters though and with all the additions to ATs they are even closer to full characters than ever before providing a very convenient base to develop from instead of fully building from scratch. Hope isn't lost.

Fair point. Sakurai also said they had planned all the DLC fighters already, which is why Rex wouldn't be in the game, and if he had any plans of making Isaac playable, he wouldn't have included his assist trophy. Isaac isn't in that initial five character DLC selection. And from how Sakurai seemed to act, I don't think he'll be doing more in all honesty...

 

[TappyBat]

you think sakurai and his team were laughing at us thinking isaac and the rest had a shot getting in?

 

[Guynamednelson]

I hope Sakurai noticed how Android 17 is DLC for FighterZ despite already being a part of 18's moveset.

 

[StrawHatX]

Guys. We have got to stop perpetuating this idea that ATs stop DLC. There is no actual proof that ATs can't be DLC it's a fan rule. It might not happen sure but until Sakurai comes in and says he has no intention of ever making AT characters DLC then it's not true. We know ATs can become full characters though and with all the additions to ATs they are even closer to full characters than ever before providing a very convenient base to develop from instead of fully building from scratch. Hope isn't lost.

We’ve never seen it happen in the same game, but I agree it’s not impossible.

The problem is I think Sakurai already has the DLC planned out. And obviously as a major Golden Sun fan I would want Isaac to be considered, but I don’t see why they would do all that work updating his AT model and adding more moves to it if they ever planned to possibly upgrade him out of it.

 

[Organization XIII]

Fair point. Sakurai also said they had planned all the DLC fighters already, which is why Rex wouldn't be in the game, and if he had any plans of making Isaac playable, he wouldn't have included his assist trophy. Isaac isn't in that initial five character DLC selection. And from how Sakurai seemed to act, I don't think he'll be doing more in all honesty...

Depends on a few things:
a. When Isaac's trophy was added. If it was early then it has a good chance of being before the DLC roster was decided and so we're fine
b. Work hasn't even started on the characters yet so nothing prevents them from still using the AT as a base since it was finished
c. There could be more than 5 DLC fighters and what they showed is how many they have planned for now or was just visual aid.
In all three points time will tell.

We’ve never seen it happen in the same game, but I agree it’s not impossible.

The problem is I think Sakurai already has the DLC planned out. And obviously as a major Golden Sun fan I would want Isaac to be considered, but I don’t see why they would do all that work updating his AT model and adding more moves to it if they ever planned to possibly upgrade him out of it.

Well, my friend there was only one DLC period prior and they had no plans of adding any Nintendo newcomers so since no ATs were high profile 3rd parties or vets there weren't really ATs that could be upgraded as DLC. Also why not? If the work is already finished to that degree and people still want him then he becomes an attractive choice because there's less work to do. Remember his AT wasn't made the same day as the DLC was decided he was made a long time prior most likely.

 

[StrawHatX]

you think sakurai and his team were laughing at us thinking isaac and the rest had a shot getting in?

I just really wish I could understand why he won’t do it. Isaac has soooooo many possibilities for a move set, and clearly has a massive following in the community.

Why did he choose to make a piranha plant a playable character over him... I just don’t get it.

 

[SPEN18]

After having about the full day to consider things and accept the game for what it is and what it isn't, I just have one real disappointment from this process.

Our love, our support, our tears, etc. weren't enough to resurrect a dead character from a dead franchise. King K. Rool is so far the only character that has come back after an extended absence because of fan support (I'm not counting Dark Samus because she's too bloody easy to make). And he has the wonderful benefit of having had a major presence in other games up until his disappearance and belonging to a series that could remain relevant through the years.

So maybe we could bring back a dead character, we might even get another if Geno prevails through DLC (I'm not super hopeful, but hey, he's alive and I'll take it). But a dead franchise? That's apparently not a mountain that all the fan support in the world could overcome. Sure, we want a new Golden Sun game and a return to form for Camelot in the RPG genre, but that's not what we were asking here. We wanted a character, a beloved character from a beloved franchise that admittedly did not blow away sells expectations, but sold decently in its inception, to be in Smash as a playable fighter.

Isaac and Golden Sun was by far the biggest first party IP that we championed as fans. I never saw another even come close in terms of the fan art, consistent placement on fan polls, or in the overall outpouring from the community at large. Hell, only Banjo Kazooie could even rival the support Golden Sun in terms of third party IPs from what I saw. Sure, you can say response bias as the most ardent supporters flocked to places like here and Reddit, but that presence has been more than notable I can assure you. Perhaps it wasn't enough at the time of the ballot? But I've seen it recently, and I don't imagine another franchise has come close.

But we weren't enough. Sakurai seems to be putting a line in the sand as to what we as fans can achieve. We can revive a single character. But a dead franchise? That's reserved only for those that Sakurai takes interest in (Kid Icarus, Ice Climbers, etc.) And that's a damn shame that we can't bring back a franchise. That was my big fear that got me into a lot of arguments in the past couple weeks. That Isaac's status as from a dead franchise meant he had a bigger obstacle to overcome, and that even with our love and support, Sakurai wouldn't consider him a priority. I think that's pretty clearly what has happened here.

And with the assist trophy reveal he didn't even give Isaac and Golden Sun fans a chance for future DLC. He hard deconfirmed Isaac in the last possible hour of Smash speculation. And that just freaking hurts all around...

All this time I was thinking that him being from an unrepresented, first-party IP was gonna be his ticket into the game. I may have been wrong about that.
Still, we must not dismantle the mountain of support we have. Even if Isaac isn't DLC, we don't know what will happen years from now when a hypothetical Smash 6 starts development. Who knows, such a game may be directed by someone other than Sakurai, or Nintendo's next console after Switch may be much better suited to big undertakings such as Smash games. Everyone's already screaming "reboot," which may happen, but there's too much we don't know to assume that for certain.

 

[SuperNintendoKid]

http://megasnintendoleaks.blogspot.com/2018/10/super-smash-bros-ultimate-issac.html

just a theory but still could be something to discuss

 

[Icana]

I've been pretty down today, and have stayed off from here so I don't deliver any raw emotions. I've relaxed since.

There was one very bright side here. In the last week, Isaac and Golden Sun have enjoyed more publicity than ever before. I've seen live reactions from people I doubt know a thing about Golden Sun that actually showed emotion to on our behalf when the AT showed up. So many more people know who Isaac is now thanks to the Grinch, and our Ratholos and Growth Item connections and speculation. We had more momentum going into this game, than any of the previous titles.

I don't know how feverish Golden Sun talk was back during the ballot. I didn't participate back then, and I regret it today. I felt I could've played a role in preventing this sad outcome today. It's with that in mind where... I want to still keep some Golden Sun talk alive as we enter speculation and hopes for DLC. It's hard to imagine AT's promoting to fighter, but I already see the Waluigi fanbase putting up their fight. I think we should try too.

I think we should stick with Isaac because he's by far the most known now, even to people not familiar with Golden Sun. Who knows, maybe our passion will reach Sakurai in the coming days and he'll promote Isaac to fighter, or compromise with us and give us Felix or Mathew, the MC's of Golden Sun The Lost Age, and Golden Sun Dark Dawn. We should keep our chin ups, despite the heavy blow today.

Anyway, for myself, I don't really have any other character I'd feel passionate for DLC. Only Isaac really means much to me. I would be pleased with Xenoblade X's Elma though, since I'm a huge fan of that game's composer, Hiroyuki Sawano (notably, X's music is missing from Ultimate). Outside of that, I don't know.

It wouldn't surprise me if one or two of the DLC characters are promotions for upcoming games. Monolith Soft is working on some new Medieval Action RPG. It's possible a new character could be coming from there. Who knows, it could be the girl or knight in the artwork from their recruitment page: https://www.monolithsoft.co.jp/recruit/special/

Both look pretty cool. But I need much more than just good looks to really get excited for a character.

Still gonna gun for my boy. So many highly request characters got de-confirmed today, it becomes a question of who are the remaining favorites not shown in any capacity, and whether or not AT's or Spirits can promote to fighter in the same game. For our cause, hopefully promotion is a possibility.

Haaaa.... man, I'm still sad. I'm sure all of us still are. In time we'll get over it, and hopefully our voices can still carry strong. Once again, the obstacles in front of us are high. Convincing Sakurai is going to be tough, especially now with Isaac as AT and the Golden Sun remix song being in the "other" section. It's my hope our efforts will mean more for the long run. For right now, we suffer another set-back.

I'll probably be in my mid thirties by the time a Smash 6 comes out. I don't know if I'll have the instincts and such for high level play at that point. Should things come to that, I'll be counting on you teens and twenty year olds, several years from now, to take my boy to the top in tourneys. I'll be helping from the side-lines. But of course, I'd hope he'll become playable before I become too old.

C'mon Nintendo, hear our pleas!

 

[StrawHatX]

http://megasnintendoleaks.blogspot.com/2018/10/super-smash-bros-ultimate-issac.html

just a theory but still could be something to discuss

I find it really hard to believe that they would completely scrap a character that takes months to work on. If Isaac was going to be revealed it would make perfect sense not to reveal him at the time, but they would have just revealed him at a later date, like today.

 

[Sentinel07]

Well, I have let my own feelings about the whole thing settle a bit, am I still disappointed? Sure as hell. But I will keep pushing, here, twitter, anywhere, for Isaac and for Golden Sun. For most of us this has been also a means to an end of reviving Golden Sun. Perhaps we will get that.

Anyways, with this, many things are left unclear. I don't want to put everyone hopes up because we are just getting out of a big blow but remember the K. Rool trademark? It was in 2015, allegedly when the roster was decided and the development for Smash Ultimate started. So now we know two things: 1. Renewing a trademark isn't necessary for Smash non-playable appearances (judging by the Custom Robo content in spirits and the MKIII mii costume) and 2. Golden Sun got a renewal this year, even though it was unnecessary because it wasn't expiring anytime soon, and was actually added some new things like downloadable home video game console program, downloadable program for portable electronic video game console and the likes. We know the other trademarks renewed were scheduled to prescribe but Golden Sun wasn't, they just seemingly wanted to update the terms of the trademark. If they are indeed starting DLC development this year as Sakurai said (excluding Piranha plant), then maybe Isaac is one of those hence why the trademark was renewed at the same time as development is said to begin (as it happened with K. Rool).

Or maybe it means similarly that a new Golden Sun is about to start being developed by Camelot (since the are now free of Mario Tennis and the development for Aces should have been finished as late as Q1 of this year at most.) since the trademark also includes program for home video game console and program for portable video game console. Either way both could be excellent news for us Golden Sun fans, just wanted to share some good vibes back to all of us

I know next to nothing about this sort of thing so I will take your word for it and hope it's the breakthrough we've been waiting for.

 

[N3ON]

Isaac wasn't scrapped because of the Earthquake.
1) He wouldn't get cut. That's a lot of money down the drain. At most he'd get delayed and then shown, at the latest, today.
2) The blog numbers don't match up to a character being delayed.
3) If he was scrapped, they wouldn't have time to make him an AT at that point.
4) The AT is not of the same visual fidelity as the playable characters. Clearly that model was always intended for that purpose.

I think it's time we drop the theory.

 

[TheSpaceKing12]

After having about the full day to consider things and accept the game for what it is and what it isn't, I just have one real disappointment from this process.

Our love, our support, our tears, etc. weren't enough to resurrect a dead character from a dead franchise. King K. Rool is so far the only character that has come back after an extended absence because of fan support (I'm not counting Dark Samus because she's too bloody easy to make). And he has the wonderful benefit of having had a major presence in other games up until his disappearance and belonging to a series that could remain relevant through the years.

So maybe we could bring back a dead character, we might even get another if Geno prevails through DLC (I'm not super hopeful, but hey, he's alive and I'll take it). But a dead franchise? That's apparently not a mountain that all the fan support in the world could overcome. Sure, we want a new Golden Sun game and a return to form for Camelot in the RPG genre, but that's not what we were asking here. We wanted a character, a beloved character from a beloved franchise that admittedly did not blow away sells expectations, but sold decently in its inception, to be in Smash as a playable fighter.

Isaac and Golden Sun was by far the biggest first party IP that we championed as fans. I never saw another even come close in terms of the fan art, consistent placement on fan polls, or in the overall outpouring from the community at large. Hell, only Banjo Kazooie could even rival the support Golden Sun in terms of third party IPs from what I saw. Sure, you can say response bias as the most ardent supporters flocked to places like here and Reddit, but that presence has been more than notable I can assure you. Perhaps it wasn't enough at the time of the ballot? But I've seen it recently, and I don't imagine another franchise has come close.

But we weren't enough. Sakurai seems to be putting a line in the sand as to what we as fans can achieve. We can revive a single character. But a dead franchise? That's reserved only for those that Sakurai takes interest in (Kid Icarus, Ice Climbers, etc.) And that's a damn shame that we can't bring back a franchise. That was my big fear that got me into a lot of arguments in the past couple weeks. That Isaac's status as from a dead franchise meant he had a bigger obstacle to overcome, and that even with our love and support, Sakurai wouldn't consider him a priority. I think that's pretty clearly what has happened here.

And with the assist trophy reveal he didn't even give Isaac and Golden Sun fans a chance for future DLC. He hard deconfirmed Isaac in the last possible hour of Smash speculation. And that just freaking hurts all around...

I was gonna write a huge response about how fan rules are not Sakurai's rules. But in that time span another did it for me with far fewer words. As for the Resurrection of a dead series. Do the NES reps, or castelvania really need spelled out to you, man?

Guys. We have got to stop perpetuating this idea that ATs stop DLC. There is no actual proof that ATs can't be DLC it's a fan rule. It might not happen sure but until Sakurai comes in and says he has no intention of ever making AT characters DLC then it's not true. We know ATs can become full characters though and with all the additions to ATs they are even closer to full characters than ever before providing a very convenient base to develop from instead of fully building from scratch. Hope isn't lost.

This is a completely accurate summation of our current circumstance. Until that is made a rule set in stone, I do not accept it as such.

 

[Sentinel07]

I just really wish I could understand why he won’t do it. Isaac has soooooo many possibilities for a move set, and clearly has a massive following in the community.

Why did he choose to make a piranha plant a playable character over him... I just don’t get it.

The only guess I can come up with is that Piranha Plant was likely just a project they liked rather than an indication of popularity or anything. It's basically a joke character, which isn't that rare a concept. That's the only explanation I can think of. Someone liked the idea and they ran with it.

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

I've avoided this thread for a while, and I'm not going to lie, I was pretty furious when Piranha Plant was confirmed while Isaac was sent to the Assist Trophy hell again. I was really scared the second Shadow showed up, and I was definitely ticked off that we didn't get our chance this time around.

However I've cooled down considerably now. It's better than Isaac being ignored like last time, but they've definitely made him a lot more interesting this time around. I hope that if there's possibly an Assist Trophy promotion, they recognise that what they've got with Isaac now is just tipping the iceberg of Isaac's potential as a fighter.

It's been an honour to support for Isaac with everyone. Even though we've been dealt a cruel hand, it's better to take a step away and cool off, and try again next time.

I don't know if anyone's posted this before I came here today, but here's a piece of art from the Golden Sun subreddit.

Source https://www.reddit.com/r/GoldenSun/comments/9td8d9/welp/

It's better to think that Plant is wanting to be friendly with Isaac rather than mocking him.

The golden sun will rise again for us one day.

 

[Silo777]

Wait, what about 108 stages? Had the been explained yet? I guess it could mean the DLC.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

To ensure the quoting works

Hey, I see you in the viewer thread. How much longer do we have until the thread gets locked up? I remember the Ridley thread back in the day got really huge and caused plenty of traffic.

If so, would you please give us time to choose a new location to congregate and plan what to do for Golden Sun and Isaac's future?

If not, I understand.