Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Q-Long]

He's probably referring to Verg yes but the character itself is a main antagonist of the Danganronpa series. Which is where this gem comes from. View attachment 174201I'd say give the game a play but make sure you do it in order (you might also have to do some reading and watching to get the correct story progression as fair warning, it's a little complicated at points).

you know this picture would be hilarious if ken was also on the right side

 

[Sephazon]

Thank you for clarifying your stance. So what are the main points you would say drove you to your conclusion on Isaac not being in the game (if that is in fact your conclusion, I think someone earlier in the thread said you spoke out and claimed that, I have not heard it directly from you though)?

Isaac is the oddball that throws me off. It is entirely possible that he is indeed in game, and I would LOVE that. With the plant being shown on the F Zero stage, his presence in the leak and being a top pick in the poll, everything does appear to be in his favor. However, it doesn't tie in with my opinion that we only have two characters remaining. Isaac is something that everyone with inside sources is disagreeing with right now. This is the only time I'll mention these insiders as it particular matters in context here.

[citation needed]

If there is anything I can do to back up anything I've said, please let me know.

If you did not want your career history involved then you would not have based it or mentioned it in the discord.

Great another person who says the Grinch Leak is fake without going into detail why it is. That is no different than what Vergeben and other "insiders" are doing.

I wanted to simply clear up any misinformation that may have been construed without my presence and to let it be clear that I have no internal sources that would lead to my conclusion. I am not here to convince anybody I am right or they are wrong. I believe the grinch leak is a hoax. However, I could also be wrong.

Let's start with what I believe to be physical evidence.

The blurriness of the image is not an issue for me to discuss.

To begin, the background is different. Yes, it can be argued that this is due to a lower quality image being used for printing and other reasons, and that may very well be the case. However, we now know what the blank background looks like. I personally do not believe that the background would be changed for this purpose. I think the background was created first and that it hasn't been touched since. I've heard multiple conflicting points on this, and would enjoy being correct if I am mistaken.

We initially believed Eric to be employed by Marina, a company publicly known to work with both Namco Bandai and Universal. However, upon learning that he is no longer employed there, we do not know the same of his current company. That said, we have not received any statements from his current company invalidating the leak.

The promo artwork for the Grinch could be combined with different custom assets to give the illusion of being legitimate. On the other hand, I've also heard mixed reports on this as well. I believe this could be the point to make or break the leak, but at the time, it's still up in the air.

Now for that which isn't evidence but is opinion.

With about a month from release, I find it difficult to believe that seven, nearly half of the newcomer roster, would be revealed in such a short time frame. Again, this is only conjecture.

I think people underestimate the talent and patience of people. It is entirely feasible that the artwork used was custom made for the leak. I don't think the artwork can be used one way or the other. As Omni has demonstrated, people can not only create decent artwork but can also move assets on the banner. All one really needs is time.

People keep bringing up Incineroar's inclusion. I've seen many people argue that Incineroar could have been used as leakbait. Of course, this is a method employed in the gaming industry. My only counter to this is that I don't believe The Pokémon Company International, with whom I have worked professionally since 2014, would allow its IP to be used as such. This company may be equally owned by Game Freak, Creatures Inc, and Nintendo but independently decides on the IP usage of the franchise. Even toward Nintendo, TPCi can be restrictive. Examples include Pikachu not being allowed to be any other color than a shade of yellow, voices in Mario Maker and limited official image uses. Either Incineroar is either in or out and was not used as leakbait either way. I honestly would prefer us not get him anyway.

We typically don't end Smash news cycles with huge character reveals. Brawl had Pikmin and Olimar and Smash 4 essentially had Shulk. Of course, this is up for debate and is, in my opinion, my weakest point.

I am a pessimist and believe that we will get two more character revealed. However, I dislike making such predictions and love being wrong. I hate to admit it, but I do partially believe in what is called "box theory" but mainly from a marketing perspective.

Again, I could very well be wrong, and let's be honest, you've most certainly heard all of this before. I would love for Isaac to be in the game as well as all other characters present in the Grinch leak. However, I personally believe the Grinch leak is a hoax. I have enough of a reasonable doubt towards its legitimacy. I'm sorry if this isn't enough of an answer or convincing, but in my mind, it makes sense. This is nothing against people who believe in it nor am I saying my opinion is gospel and if you disagree you are wrong. We don't know everything yet, and I think that's what's most exciting. Real or not, we don't know what's going to be in the direct or how it will be presented. I think if we took a step back to appreciate that, we can all enjoy the ride together.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Not talking about these leakers, most of them are probably frauds looking for fame, trolling, and tips.

People with 15 minutes of Photoshop education have showcased how easy it is to move around and mock up the banner. Grinch's artwork actually existing in France also surfaced. Either way someone with any sort of time and Photoshop effort could produce this if they really wanted to. If they did work at a marketing place or knew someone who did, they'd also have access to more tools to use.

It's basically...
View attachment 174199

Believe in it or not, but till we have concrete evidence either way we can't say for certain. Trying to deny or believe in it fully isn't the best outlook.

Out of everyone I have seen nobody has even come close to trying to disprove the Grinch Leaker to the extent that Artsy Omni has.
The only thing that can be said is concrete evidence against the Grinch Leak is the character renders themselves and even then nothing conclusive has went against it.

Nobody has talked why the video being removed was against the leak. The banner is the only thing that has been brought up concerning Grinch Leak from TeamFake.

 

[Gioka]

Just a thought: what if the grinch leak, vergeben, and every single insider out there are false, and something else entirely happens.

Literally the best scenario for me, highly unlikely, but still. Because that would mean Sakurai succesfully avoided being leaked (aside from Castlevania), and he has been working his butt off to give a gift to the community he has come to love and live along with so I would be happy that he managed to surprise all of us all the way till the end

 

[Ninetales Commander]

No, it means he has no intentions of making characters be DLC for later purchase which is exactly what you're trying to say the will do with Isaac. There is no hope for DLC friend. I've been over this a thousand times and every single point you've raised I've asked myself before. DLC is not the mighty saving force if the AT is gone. I want him so badly but I'm not going to ignore things for fantasy. I'm dropping this because he still has a great shot for base and so hopefully this whole conversation will be pointless after tomorrow. If he's not there then we can continue.

"No, it means he has no intentions of making characters be DLC for later purchase"
And there you go again, assuming you know Sakurai's intentions and how he thinks, I've already told you, neither of us know how he thinks or what his intentions are. Also, I never said that is what he "will do with Isaac", I'm saying it as a possibility because, again, neither of us know him or how he operates.

 

[TappyBat]

You know, if Isaac is not playable I would actually be happy for him to be an assist instead of nothing.

If Smash 4 was anything to go by, DLC ends up being mostly third party and advertisement. I wouldn't be surprised if that happened again, so I'm not really confident in the whole we can campaign him in as DLC if he's not playable angle.

ah yes then have the smash 4 situation happen all over again next year cause that was fun right? "oh isaac did well again good for him! but we can't make him playable cause we need 476880694983456378936807 more pokemon and mario enemies soooooo, goodbye isaac!" *snip*" no. playable! he needs to be playable so those haters can shut the **** up!

 

[VexTheHex]

Out of everyone I have seen nobody has even come close to trying to disprove the Grinch Leaker to the extent that Artsy Omni has.
The only thing that can be said is concrete evidence against the Grinch Leak is the character renders themselves and even then nothing conclusive has went against it.

Nobody has talked why the video being removed was against the leak. The banner is the only thing that has been brought up concerning Grinch Leak from TeamFake.

The banner is the leak. The story around it and blurry picture of it are just story to it. Whether or not the crucial piece (the banner) is real or fake is the question. There has been no definite proof either way as it COULD BE faked or real. We have no conclusion.

Them taking down their video with people commenting about Smash leaks is common sense, Their page and footage were being used for mass leak speculation. What company in their right mind would want that buzz going? They're going to lose clients.

 

[Confirmation]

Interesting point but: Vergeben hasn't leaked a first-party character bar Isabelle to my knowledge, and Isabelle being in a General Direct makes her unique in that sense.

 

[StrawHatX]

Isaac is the oddball that throws me off. It is entirely possible that he is indeed in game, and I would LOVE that. With the plant being shown on the F Zero stage, his presence in the leak and being a top pick in the poll, everything does appear to be in his favor. However, it doesn't tie in with my opinion that we only have two characters remaining. Isaac is something that everyone with inside sources is disagreeing with right now. This is the only time I'll mention these insiders as it particular matters in context here.



If there is anything I can do to back up anything I've said, please let me know.



I wanted to simply clear up any misinformation that may have been construed without my presence and to let it be clear that I have no internal sources that would lead to my conclusion. I am not here to convince anybody I am right or they are wrong. I believe the grinch leak is a hoax. However, I could also be wrong.

Let's start with what I believe to be physical evidence.

The blurriness of the image is not an issue for me to discuss.

To begin, the background is different. Yes, it can be argued that this is due to a lower quality image being used for printing and other reasons, and that may very well be the case. However, we now know what the blank background looks like. I personally do not believe that the background would be changed for this purpose. I think the background was created first and that it hasn't been touched since. I've heard multiple conflicting points on this, and would enjoy being correct if I am mistaken.

We initially believed Eric to be employed by Marina, a company publicly known to work with both Namco Bandai and Universal. However, upon learning that he is no longer employed there, we do not know the same of his current company. That said, we have not received any statements from his current company invalidating the leak.

The promo artwork for the Grinch could be combined with different custom assets to give the illusion of being legitimate. On the other hand, I've also heard mixed reports on this as well. I believe this could be the point to make or break the leak, but at the time, it's still up in the air.

Now for that which isn't evidence but is opinion.

With about a month from release, I find it difficult to believe that seven, nearly half of the newcomer roster, would be revealed in such a short time frame. Again, this is only conjecture.

I think people underestimate the talent and patience of people. It is entirely feasible that the artwork used was custom made for the leak. I don't think the artwork can be used one way or the other. As Omni has demonstrated, people can not only create decent artwork but can also move assets on the banner. All one really needs is time.

People keep bringing up Incineroar's inclusion. I've seen many people argue that Incineroar could have been used as leakbait. Of course, this is a method employed in the gaming industry. My only counter to this is that I don't believe The Pokémon Company International, with whom I have worked professionally since 2014, would allow its IP to be used as such. This company may be equally owned by Game Freak, Creatures Inc, and Nintendo but independently decides on the IP usage of the franchise. Even toward Nintendo, TPCi can be restrictive. Examples include Pikachu not being allowed to be any other color than a shade of yellow, voices in Mario Maker and limited official image uses. Either Incineroar is either in or out and was not used as leakbait either way. I honestly would prefer us not get him anyway.

We typically don't end Smash news cycles with huge character reveals. Brawl had Pikmin and Olimar and Smash 4 essentially had Shulk. Of course, this is up for debate and is, in my opinion, my weakest point.

I am a pessimist and believe that we will get two more character revealed. However, I dislike making such predictions and love being wrong. I hate to admit it, but I do partially believe in what is called "box theory" but mainly from a marketing perspective.

Again, I could very well be wrong, and let's be honest, you've most certainly heard all of this before. I would love for Isaac to be in the game as well as all other characters present in the Grinch leak. However, I personally believe the Grinch leak is a hoax. I'm sorry if this isn't enough of an answer or convincing, but in my mind, it makes sense. This is nothing against people who believe in it nor am I saying my opinion is gospel and if you disagree you are wrong. We don't know everything yet, and I think that's what's most exciting. Real or not, we don't know what's going to be in the direct or how it will be presented. I think if we took a step back to appreciate that, we can all enjoy the ride together.

Do you think it’s at all possible the reasons “insiders” are confused about Isaac’s status is because there is another Golden Sun assist trophy in the game? Has that been brought up at all in the inner circle? Specifically Matthew since he resembles Isaac. Just curious because usually we get an assist trophy to go with a brand new newcomer.

 

[Nossnitro102]

I don't understand this comment, Little Mac and Isabelle have both been promoted to playable from assist so there's no reason for Isaac to not be.
Besides, Isaac not being in the base roster doesn't mean he wasn't popular, it could have been that they simply didn't have the time to include him in the base game and decided to hold him off for DLC. I mean, Cloud, Ryu, and Bayonetta are way more popular than Isaac and they had no problem adding them as DLC so there's no reason Isaac wouldn't be.

And Dark Samus.

 

[THE 6r]

Isaac is the oddball that throws me off. It is entirely possible that he is indeed in game, and I would LOVE that. With the plant being shown on the F Zero stage, his presence in the leak and being a top pick in the poll, everything does appear to be in his favor. However, it doesn't tie in with my opinion that we only have two characters remaining. Isaac is something that everyone with inside sources is disagreeing with right now. This is the only time I'll mention these insiders as it particular matters in context here.



If there is anything I can do to back up anything I've said, please let me know.



I wanted to simply clear up any misinformation that may have been construed without my presence and to let it be clear that I have no internal sources that would lead to my conclusion. I am not here to convince anybody I am right or they are wrong. I believe the grinch leak is a hoax. However, I could also be wrong.

Let's start with what I believe to be physical evidence.

The blurriness of the image is not an issue for me to discuss.

To begin, the background is different. Yes, it can be argued that this is due to a lower quality image being used for printing and other reasons, and that may very well be the case. However, we now know what the blank background looks like. I personally do not believe that the background would be changed for this purpose. I think the background was created first and that it hasn't been touched since. I've heard multiple conflicting points on this, and would enjoy being correct if I am mistaken.

We initially believed Eric to be employed by Marina, a company publicly known to work with both Namco Bandai and Universal. However, upon learning that he is no longer employed there, we do not know the same of his current company. That said, we have not received any statements from his current company invalidating the leak.

The promo artwork for the Grinch could be combined with different custom assets to give the illusion of being legitimate. On the other hand, I've also heard mixed reports on this as well. I believe this could be the point to make or break the leak, but at the time, it's still up in the air.

Now for that which isn't evidence but is opinion.

With about a month from release, I find it difficult to believe that seven, nearly half of the newcomer roster, would be revealed in such a short time frame. Again, this is only conjecture.

I think people underestimate the talent and patience of people. It is entirely feasible that the artwork used was custom made for the leak. I don't think the artwork can be used one way or the other. As Omni has demonstrated, people can not only create decent artwork but can also move assets on the banner. All one really needs is time.

People keep bringing up Incineroar's inclusion. I've seen many people argue that Incineroar could have been used as leakbait. Of course, this is a method employed in the gaming industry. My only counter to this is that I don't believe The Pokémon Company International, with whom I have worked professionally since 2014, would allow its IP to be used as such. This company may be equally owned by Game Freak, Creatures Inc, and Nintendo but independently decides on the IP usage of the franchise. Even toward Nintendo, TPCi can be restrictive. Examples include Pikachu not being allowed to be any other color than a shade of yellow, voices in Mario Maker and limited official image uses. Either Incineroar is either in or out and was not used as leakbait either way. I honestly would prefer us not get him anyway.

We typically don't end Smash news cycles with huge character reveals. Brawl had Pikmin and Olimar and Smash 4 essentially had Shulk. Of course, this is up for debate and is, in my opinion, my weakest point.

I am a pessimist and believe that we will get two more character revealed. However, I dislike making such predictions and love being wrong. I hate to admit it, but I do partially believe in what is called "box theory" but mainly from a marketing perspective.

Again, I could very well be wrong. I would love for Isaac to be in the game as well as all other characters present in the Grinch leak. However, I personally believe the Grinch leak is a hoax. I'm sorry if this isn't enough of an answer or convincing, but in my mind, it makes sense. This is nothing against people who believe in it nor am I saying my opinion is gospel and if you disagree you are wrong. We don't know everything yet, and I think that's what's most exciting. Real or not, we don't know what's going to be in the direct or how it will be presented. I think if we took a step back to appreciate that, we can all enjoy the ride together.

Well, at least you provide actual reasons and facts to back up you rconclusion. My only major thing I want to bring up is time. You yourself admit that all the leaker needs is time to do all of this. I agree with you there. HOWEVER, my only concern is how can the leaker have that much time on their hands? Assuming the leaker has a normal life, how could they find a random 4chan leak that's new even an OP, do all of these renders, a new Battlefield, put all the fighters on said Battlefield, while also shifting around everything to make it work, design a chandelier and set up instructions, create Grinch promo art, get access to a printer, print the blueprints and brackets without getting caught, create a believable workspace, AND find a scapegoat employee that works there to use to the Snapchat amount of to send it to a friend, who is not guaranteed to spread the leak? I find that particular aspect of it very hard to believe. You do, however, bring up very valid points clearly based on thorough research that you have done and I can respect and commend that.

edit: WORDS!

 

[LetterO]

Chorus Kids fan here to wish all you Isaac fans good luck for tomorrow!

 

[THE 6r]

Chorus Kids fan here to wish all you Isaac fans good luck for tomorrow!

Right back at 'cha!

 

[Sephazon]

Do you think it’s at all possible the reasons “insiders” are confused about Isaac’s status is because there is another Golden Sun assist trophy in the game? Has that been brought up at all in the inner circle? Specifically Matthew since he resembles Isaac. Just curious because usually we get an assist trophy to go with a brand new newcomer.

That is completely possible. I'm not sure either way. I'm not in any communication with these leakers or their sources nor wish to be.

Out of everyone I have seen nobody has even come close to trying to disprove the Grinch Leaker to the extent that Artsy Omni has.
The only thing that can be said is concrete evidence against the Grinch Leak is the character renders themselves and even then nothing conclusive has went against it.

Nobody has talked why the video being removed was against the leak. The banner is the only thing that has been brought up concerning Grinch Leak from TeamFake.

You are correct. Omni has gone the furthest to disprove the leak, and even he has admitted within the past days that his opinion on it fluctuates. I think from there it's just a matter of opinion, and in a few hours, fact. The video being removed, however, I believe could be just to remove the spotlight. I admit this does help validify the leak to an extent, just not enough to convince me. That said, once again, I'm not trying to convince anybody one way or the other, just giving my thoughts and opinions.

My only major thing I want to bring up is time. You yourself admit that all the leaker needs is time to do all of this. I agree with you there. HOWEVER, my only concern is how can the leaker have that much time on their hands? Assuming the leaker has a normal life, how could they find a random 4chan leak that's new even an OP, do all of these renders, a new Battlefield, put all the fighters on said Battlefield, while also shifting around everything to make it work, design a chandelier and set up instructions, create Grinch promo art, get access to a printer, print the blueprints and brackets without getting caught, create a believable workspace, AND find a scapegoat employee that works there to use to the Snapchat amount of to send it to a friend, who is not guaranteed to spread the leak? I find that particular aspect of it very hard to believe.

It is definitely a longshot story. I'm a history major and while in university, my first professor opened his first class by saying "Nothing in history has ever happened until it did." I think it fits here if the leak is a hoax. Nothing this grand and spectacular had been done, until it now it had. If it's real, then see ya, I'm off to play Isaac until the Moo Moos come home.

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

You know, if Isaac is not playable I would actually be happy for him to be an assist instead of nothing.

If Smash 4 was anything to go by, DLC ends up being mostly third party and advertisement. I wouldn't be surprised if that happened again, so I'm not really confident in the whole we can campaign him in as DLC if he's not playable angle.

The issue with that thinking is that Smash 4 is the only Smash game with DLC. And even it’s base roster was flooded with advertisement. I hope Smash 5s DLC doesn’t continue this trend.

Is it sad that I'm just sitting here listening to Golden Sun Music?

Not at all lol. I’m doing the same.

 

[Nazyrus]

40 mins for just 2 characters… lol no way. I wil gladly take the L if i'm wrong but… no way.

 

[tbuster766]

Isaac is the oddball that throws me off. It is entirely possible that he is indeed in game, and I would LOVE that. With the plant being shown on the F Zero stage, his presence in the leak and being a top pick in the poll, everything does appear to be in his favor. However, it doesn't tie in with my opinion that we only have two characters remaining. Isaac is something that everyone with inside sources is disagreeing with right now. This is the only time I'll mention these insiders as it particular matters in context here.



If there is anything I can do to back up anything I've said, please let me know.



I wanted to simply clear up any misinformation that may have been construed without my presence and to let it be clear that I have no internal sources that would lead to my conclusion. I am not here to convince anybody I am right or they are wrong. I believe the grinch leak is a hoax. However, I could also be wrong.

Let's start with what I believe to be physical evidence.

The blurriness of the image is not an issue for me to discuss.

To begin, the background is different. Yes, it can be argued that this is due to a lower quality image being used for printing and other reasons, and that may very well be the case. However, we now know what the blank background looks like. I personally do not believe that the background would be changed for this purpose. I think the background was created first and that it hasn't been touched since. I've heard multiple conflicting points on this, and would enjoy being correct if I am mistaken.

We initially believed Eric to be employed by Marina, a company publicly known to work with both Namco Bandai and Universal. However, upon learning that he is no longer employed there, we do not know the same of his current company. That said, we have not received any statements from his current company invalidating the leak.

The promo artwork for the Grinch could be combined with different custom assets to give the illusion of being legitimate. On the other hand, I've also heard mixed reports on this as well. I believe this could be the point to make or break the leak, but at the time, it's still up in the air.

Now for that which isn't evidence but is opinion.

With about a month from release, I find it difficult to believe that seven, nearly half of the newcomer roster, would be revealed in such a short time frame. Again, this is only conjecture.

I think people underestimate the talent and patience of people. It is entirely feasible that the artwork used was custom made for the leak. I don't think the artwork can be used one way or the other. As Omni has demonstrated, people can not only create decent artwork but can also move assets on the banner. All one really needs is time.

People keep bringing up Incineroar's inclusion. I've seen many people argue that Incineroar could have been used as leakbait. Of course, this is a method employed in the gaming industry. My only counter to this is that I don't believe The Pokémon Company International, with whom I have worked professionally since 2014, would allow its IP to be used as such. This company may be equally owned by Game Freak, Creatures Inc, and Nintendo but independently decides on the IP usage of the franchise. Even toward Nintendo, TPCi can be restrictive. Examples include Pikachu not being allowed to be any other color than a shade of yellow, voices in Mario Maker and limited official image uses. Either Incineroar is either in or out and was not used as leakbait either way. I honestly would prefer us not get him anyway.

We typically don't end Smash news cycles with huge character reveals. Brawl had Pikmin and Olimar and Smash 4 essentially had Shulk. Of course, this is up for debate and is, in my opinion, my weakest point.

I am a pessimist and believe that we will get two more character revealed. However, I dislike making such predictions and love being wrong. I hate to admit it, but I do partially believe in what is called "box theory" but mainly from a marketing perspective.

Again, I could very well be wrong, and let's be honest, you've most certainly heard all of this before. I would love for Isaac to be in the game as well as all other characters present in the Grinch leak. However, I personally believe the Grinch leak is a hoax. I'm sorry if this isn't enough of an answer or convincing, but in my mind, it makes sense. This is nothing against people who believe in it nor am I saying my opinion is gospel and if you disagree you are wrong. We don't know everything yet, and I think that's what's most exciting. Real or not, we don't know what's going to be in the direct or how it will be presented. I think if we took a step back to appreciate that, we can all enjoy the ride together.

I like your input. Although I'm more inclined to be on team real, I also don't want to burn myself over the leak. However, I like to support Isaac till the very end regardless of whether or not this leak turns out to be true or not.

 

[Organization XIII]

"No, it means he has no intentions of making characters be DLC for later purchase"
And there you go again, assuming you know Sakurai's intentions and how he thinks, I've already told you, neither of us know how he thinks or what his intentions are. Also, I never said that is what he "will do with Isaac", I'm saying it as a possibility because, again, neither of us know him or how he operates.

And I said the quote goes against that possibility.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Isaac is the oddball that throws me off. It is entirely possible that he is indeed in game, and I would LOVE that. With the plant being shown on the F Zero stage, his presence in the leak and being a top pick in the poll, everything does appear to be in his favor. However, it doesn't tie in with my opinion that we only have two characters remaining. Isaac is something that everyone with inside sources is disagreeing with right now. This is the only time I'll mention these insiders as it particular matters in context here.

I wanted to simply clear up any misinformation that may have been construed without my presence and to let it be clear that I have no internal sources that would lead to my conclusion. I am not here to convince anybody I am right or they are wrong. I believe the grinch leak is a hoax. However, I could also be wrong.

Let's start with what I believe to be physical evidence.

The blurriness of the image is not an issue for me to discuss.

To begin, the background is different. Yes, it can be argued that this is due to a lower quality image being used for printing and other reasons, and that may very well be the case. However, we now know what the blank background looks like. I personally do not believe that the background would be changed for this purpose. I think the background was created first and that it hasn't been touched since. I've heard multiple conflicting points on this, and would enjoy being correct if I am mistaken.

We initially believed Eric to be employed by Marina, a company publicly known to work with both Namco Bandai and Universal. However, upon learning that he is no longer employed there, we do not know the same of his current company. That said, we have not received any statements from his current company invalidating the leak.

The promo artwork for the Grinch could be combined with different custom assets to give the illusion of being legitimate. On the other hand, I've also heard mixed reports on this as well. I believe this could be the point to make or break the leak, but at the time, it's still up in the air.

Now for that which isn't evidence but is opinion.

With about a month from release, I find it difficult to believe that seven, nearly half of the newcomer roster, would be revealed in such a short time frame. Again, this is only conjecture.

I think people underestimate the talent and patience of people. It is entirely feasible that the artwork used was custom made for the leak. I don't think the artwork can be used one way or the other. As Omni has demonstrated, people can not only create decent artwork but can also move assets on the banner. All one really needs is time.

People keep bringing up Incineroar's inclusion. I've seen many people argue that Incineroar could have been used as leakbait. Of course, this is a method employed in the gaming industry. My only counter to this is that I don't believe The Pokémon Company International, with whom I have worked professionally since 2014, would allow its IP to be used as such. This company may be equally owned by Game Freak, Creatures Inc, and Nintendo but independently decides on the IP usage of the franchise. Even toward Nintendo, TPCi can be restrictive. Examples include Pikachu not being allowed to be any other color than a shade of yellow, voices in Mario Maker and limited official image uses. Either Incineroar is either in or out and was not used as leakbait either way. I honestly would prefer us not get him anyway.

We typically don't end Smash news cycles with huge character reveals. Brawl had Pikmin and Olimar and Smash 4 essentially had Shulk. Of course, this is up for debate and is, in my opinion, my weakest point.

I am a pessimist and believe that we will get two more character revealed. However, I dislike making such predictions and love being wrong. I hate to admit it, but I do partially believe in what is called "box theory" but mainly from a marketing perspective.

Again, I could very well be wrong, and let's be honest, you've most certainly heard all of this before. I would love for Isaac to be in the game as well as all other characters present in the Grinch leak. However, I personally believe the Grinch leak is a hoax. I'm sorry if this isn't enough of an answer or convincing, but in my mind, it makes sense. This is nothing against people who believe in it nor am I saying my opinion is gospel and if you disagree you are wrong. We don't know everything yet, and I think that's what's most exciting. Real or not, we don't know what's going to be in the direct or how it will be presented. I think if we took a step back to appreciate that, we can all enjoy the ride together.

So you basically do not know anything more concrete than the rest of us despite how the Pokemon team would handle its characters. Makes sense as Nintendo would want to keep their fellow employees in the dark as potential leaks would emerge from that and Nintendo wants to know who would be spilling the beans.
Note: You are the most legitimate that I have heard all throughout Ultimate.

 

[Bladebreaker]

People keep bringing up Incineroar's inclusion. I've seen many people argue that Incineroar could have been used as leakbait. Of course, this is a method employed in the gaming industry. My only counter to this is that I don't believe The Pokémon Company International, with whom I have worked professionally since 2014, would allow its IP to be used as such. This company may be equally owned by Game Freak, Creatures Inc, and Nintendo but independently decides on the IP usage of the franchise. Even toward Nintendo, TPCi can be restrictive. Examples include Pikachu not being allowed to be any other color than a shade of yellow, voices in Mario Maker and limited official image uses. Either Incineroar is either in or out and was not used as leakbait either way. I honestly would prefer us not get him anyway.

On this point specifically, during the DLC development era for Smash 4 they used Rayman's name as a smokescreen for content, according to Xander Mobus, the announcer for 4 and Ultimate. While Nintendo does have a hand in Pokemon, they don't have any such claim over Rayman. I very much believe that using leak bait and smokescreens is more under the table strategies that aren't "official" company or design policy. So if TPCi or Ubisoft or whoever else come sniffing around for rumors, Nintendo and the crew have plausible deniability.

 

[TappyBat]

soooo what do we do if we're btfo tomorrow? also hi 81 peoples

 

[Jandlebars]

Hoy, fellow Adepts.

Just want to contribute to the hype for our Golden Boi in the final stretch!
I’ve been lurking a bunch, but I’m really happy for every one of us in this thread for getting this far over the course of a decade. It’s been a long journey, and depending on how the Direct goes, it may continue for even longer.

No matter what happens, I’m really pleased to have found such lovely people in these discussions. Thank you all for supporting Isaac, and I have no doubts you all will continue to do so.

See you all on the Golden side.

(Credit to untoldprotag on Twitter for fan art)

 

[Ninetales Commander]

And I said the quote goes against that possibility.

I think I'm gonna have to take the same road as Ivan here and just agree to disagree, I understand where you are coming from but I also feel the situation is far too flexible to be predicted based on past events. Maybe you're right, maybe even as far as actually shelving characters Sakurai does not consider DLC until after the main game is done but the opposite can also happen especially with Sakurai confirming that he is using the ballot as a guide for this game's roster, something Smash Bros 4 did not have. This is the problem, the quotes you shared are just referring to literal development, there's nothing in there that suggests Sakurai doesn't put characters aside in the possible event that DLC gets the green light.
At this point I'm just repeating myself so we may as well let reality do the talking, this time tomorrow we'll all be wiser to what's happening.

 

[Sephazon]

I like your input. Although I'm more inclined to be on team real, I also don't want to burn myself over the leak. However, I like to support Isaac till the very end regardless of whether or not this leak turns out to be true or not.

No worries. I can understand the points in favor if its legitimacy. I believe Isaac does deserve a spot, and I'd be lying to say I'll be disappointed if it does turn out to be a hoax. Contrary to my opinion, I want all of these characters and can see the points in their favor.

So you basically do not know anything more concrete than the rest of us despite how the Pokemon team would handle its characters. Makes sense as Nintendo would want to keep their fellow employees in the dark as potential leaks would emerge from that and Nintendo wants to know who would be spilling the beans.
Note: You are the most legitimate that I have heard all throughout Ultimate.

Even if I did know more, I should still have to argue against the leak using evidence in regards to the leak. I hate to compare it to court, but even if we KNOW somebody did a crime, we still have to prove it. In that regards, I have reasonable doubt to its legitimacy is all, and that's enough for me. It's not enough for other people, and that's okay. I will be the first to admit if I'm wrong and the last to say if I'm right. As an aside, in my experience, leaks typically come from internal marketing (ie video editors, localizers, copy editors, etc).

On this point specifically, during the DLC development era for Smash 4 they used Rayman's name as a smokescreen for content, according to Xander Mobus, the announcer for 4 and Ultimate. While Nintendo does have a hand in Pokemon, they don't have any such claim over Rayman. I very much believe that using leak bait and smokescreens is more under the table strategies that aren't "official" company or design policy. So if TPCi or Ubisoft or whoever else come sniffing around for rumors, Nintendo and the crew have plausible deniability.

That's fair, but I'm not sure Nintendo would do that with TPCi. I personally don't believe DLC has been worked on yet and, if Incineroar is legitimate, that he would be DLC. We may see DLC discussed in the Direct, but I doubt anything shown. However, I understand arguments that it could be.

 

[Mav485]

In an odd way, I’m fine with the bit of cold water Verge has thrown on our Isaac hype. I’m still hopeful and leaning #TeamReal, but now I’m just looking forward to more Smash news. Seeing the excited reaction vids in the days to come will be awesome.

 

[Bladebreaker]

That's fair, but I'm not sure Nintendo would do that with TPCi. I personally don't believe DLC has been worked on yet and, if Incineroar is legitimate, that he would be DLC. We may see DLC discussed in the Direct, but I doubt anything shown. However, I understand arguments that it could be.

For clarity, I wasn't talking about DLC for Ultimate, but how in the past Nintendo has used leak bait of characters they don't own, specifically Rayman.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

The banner is the leak. The story around it and blurry picture of it are just story to it. Whether or not the crucial piece (the banner) is real or fake is the question. There has been no definite proof either way as it COULD BE faked or real. We have no conclusion.

Except those also add evidence to the leak itself. It is like how the Box Theory was tied in with Vergeben even though his predictions were presented without the box theory.

Them taking down their video with people commenting about Smash leaks is common sense, Their page and footage were being used for mass leak speculation. What company in their right mind would want that buzz going? They're going to lose clients.

So it works both ways. It can be legitimate since the person worked there and does not want to get further in trouble and denies anything or the company feels worried enough to get rid of the video so they did not face the brunt of Smash speculation.

 

[Sephazon]

The best way I can sum up my objective stance on the leak, focusing only on evidence presented, is that it's Schrödinger's Leak. It's both real and a hoax until the Direct airs. I only prefer not to be in a "#TeamFake" echo chamber. My position was independently reached.

 

[Nossnitro102]

you guys gotta calm down lol

most people are just saying the leak might be fake, theyre not saying they hope its fake

But with how absolutely vicious some of these people have been (*cough*Vergeben*cough* and that's just ONE example) it's like they DO WANT IT TO BE FAKE.

 

[Ninetales Commander]

The best way I can sum up my objective stance on the leak, focusing only on evidence presented, is that it's Schrödinger's Leak. It's both real and a hoax until the Direct airs.

Hang on, do you actually work at Nintendo? Please excuse my ignorance, I'm new here.

 

[Kisae]

Yo I'm going to sleep since is almost 1 in the morning here. I am still at page 698 since the threads speed up when I was almost catching xD But you guys are excellent.

Anyways at. The point I am,Stealth announced the leak is fake, have we gotten any news, proofs etc? So if someone could just make a quick recap I would gladly appreciate

Oh and goooo Isaac for the direct, I will miss it so I ****ing hope our Boi finally makes it. If he does feel free to spam me xDD

Now than never the Golden Sun will rise again!

 

[Nossnitro102]

you know this picture would be hilarious if ken was also on the right side

I would have done that myself tbh. XD

 

[TappyBat]

ok but how is it fake? all I hear is "yup fake" and then nothing. like that just makes it more suspicious. like "oh I saw this dude steal a candy bar from a counter and no one was around! there weren't any cameras but i'm not lying!" "yeah ok buddy sure you aren't. hey cops! I found the robber!"

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

Only time willl tell Adepts. Let’s just keep our heads high until the Direct airs...

 

[NoOtherPersona]

The best way I can sum up my objective stance on the leak, focusing only on evidence presented, is that it's Schrödinger's Leak. It's both real and a hoax until the Direct airs. I only prefer not to be in a "#TeamFake" echo chamber. My position was independently reached.

Do you feel Nintendo was sending out fake information or outdated info to control the hype or is that crazy

 

[Sephazon]

ok but how is it fake? all I hear is "yup fake" and then nothing. like that just makes it more suspicious. like "oh I saw this dude steal a candy bar from a counter and no one was around! there weren't any cameras but i'm not lying!" "yeah ok buddy sure you aren't. hey cops! I found the robber!"

I posted my reasoning above. I expect I can make a more articular and in-depth post later today. It's 9am now and I believe I can do it before the stream airs at 11pm.

Do you feel Nintendo was sending out fake information or outdated info to control the hype or is that crazy

I believe people who work in marketing talk openly with friends and then those friends talk with their friends who they trust about it. Unfortunately, it's those friends who start talking about things they shouldn't. This is from personal experience in the gaming industry.

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

A friend of mine who used to work on 3D animation in gaming just presented a really interesting theory:
So a few months ago, the charcater designer for Isaac died. What if the copy right to Isaac was HIS? What if, in his will, we wanted his family to have the rights to Isaac, and not Camelot/Nintendo? They weren't doing anything with him anyway..
Neither of us are legal experts, but it was a theory I haven't heard anyone bring up before so i thought I'd share it.

 

[Nossnitro102]

Only time willl tell Adepts. Let’s just keep our heads high until the Direct airs...

Either vindication in victory or disappointment in defeat.

A friend of mine who used to work on 3D animation in gaming just presented a really interesting theory:
So a few months ago, the charcater designer for Isaac died. What if the copy right to Isaac was HIS? What if, in his will, we wanted his family to have the rights to Isaac, and not Camelot/Nintendo? They weren't doing anything with him anyway..
Neither of us are legal experts, but it was a theory I haven't heard anyone bring up before so i thought I'd share it.

I thought that was the monster/enemy designer and not the character designer?

 

[Plato Xaiver]

Normally we’re used to this, but if Isaac is playable here I feel like he won’t be playable ever. Reminder it was either Smash Ultimate or a Reboot, and if Sakurai is pulling all the strings and making all these dreams come true, then if Isaac doesn’t make it into base I worry.

That being said, I am adamantly on Team Real. Let the sun sine brightly tomorrow friends.

 

[SundaeS]

A friend of mine who used to work on 3D animation in gaming just presented a really interesting theory:
So a few months ago, the charcater designer for Isaac died. What if the copy right to Isaac was HIS? What if, in his will, we wanted his family to have the rights to Isaac, and not Camelot/Nintendo? They weren't doing anything with him anyway..
Neither of us are legal experts, but it was a theory I haven't heard anyone bring up before so i thought I'd share it.

Well the artist who died wasn't the character artist for isaac. Apparently he did some of the monster designs in golden sun and it was just a misconception a lot of people made from some article titles. I'll try to find the link where i read it.