Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Sabrewulf238]

I was just thinking it's kinda interesting how the leaker (if fake) didn't have Ken interacting with Ryu in some way. We already have Fox and Wolf posing against each other in such a way and the way in which Ryu is posed makes it look like he could be fighting Ken.

Of course they may have decided to base them more on the Belmonts, who weren't interacting. (though to be fair they're not rivals so it makes less sense for them to be interacting)

or maybe they just felt it would be too obvious of a pose to create.

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

The day of reckoning draws nearer, and I'm still holding faith in Isaac. I'm prepared for whatever outcome the future holds, but I'm hoping it's one where we see Isaac and the other Grinch Leak characters join the fight.

 

[Sephazon]

I did not ask for sob stories, I asked for evidence. You have yet to give them to me. I asked for LeakedIn accounts, you have yet to give them to me. Nothing, at all, that you have given me has any substantial evidence behind it and for any reason for me to give it any thought.
You have yet to give me any concrete evidence despite my constant asking for your sources.
Again, until you give me some actual reason to believe you your statements will be discarded.

A week ago I would have agreed with being more cautious but that sprout item on top of everything else has absolutely tipped me over the edge. I don't care what all these unsubstantiated "insiders" are claiming, the evidence in front of my eyes tells me there's a really good chance that Isaac is in. I guess we'll find out for sure this week or next.

But again, if Isaac isn't in between the Rathalos tweet and the suspicious sprout that they somehow hid for all this time, Sakurai is just being a cruel tease to Golden Sun fans and that is not like him at all.

Plus nobody has been able to reliably debunk the Grinch yet. From what I can see it's just a bunch of dubious "insiders" who are suddenly coming out of the woodwork (where were all these guys when all we had to talk about was Verge and the Box??) with conflicting reports and possible misinformation.

Anyone who truly, honestly believes we are only getting Ken and Incineroar is delusional or got baited to hell and back. Glad to hear that the guy was nice about it or whatever, but it’s the truth.

we're not ending with some clone and a ****ing cat. no way. 40 minutes for green mode and those are our last fighters? **** off with that ****!

Have fun with that line of thought. If I was trying to convert other people away from Isaac i'd just go to freaking gamefaqs.

Anyways how about you wager a guess? It couldn't possibly be because it's a waste of time. Because I literally have no way of replicating something said on VOICE

I'm not too familiar on what was being discussed here. However, I will say I have no connection with Verge or any other inside source for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. I also will go on record saying if any information were available to me, I would not rely or argue based on it. Furthermore, I don't want my career history to be used as a platform for my personal views, which are of my own and do not reflect current or previous employers.

I have been maintaining that, in my personal opinion and research, that the leak is a hoax. However, I am not basing this on any insider information or other leaker, including Verge. Furthermore, I am disappointed in the actions of my peers in the gaming industry only arguing on a platform based on sources, regardless of who or where they've originated. Doing so is not conducive to debate, especially if the goal is to convince the opposing side that you are correct. Again, this is entirely an opinion of my own and I'm not looking to argue or change anybody else's opinion or views on the matter. I only want to help people come to their own educated conclusion while combating misinformation. As I've said hundreds of pages ago, I am a huge supporter of Isaac for Super Smash Bros. and have been since Brawl.

 

[SonicLink125]

Isaac reveal trailer idea:
At a coliseum. Isaac (hidden in the shadows) walking through a tunnel leading to the arena with his scarf flowing out. Link, Marth and Shulk doing their best to fight Rathalos. They're down for the count. Rathalos goes for the final blow. BAM! Psynergy (hand, earth, Ragnarok, whatever) hits Rathalos. Everyone looks where it came from. *cue first three seconds of Isaac's battle theme* Camera zooms/angles into Isaac and BAM! "Isaac Lends a Hand"

That would be epic!

 

[Organization XIII]

I understand what you are saying but the issue I have is it looks like you think you know how Sakurai thinks. How do you know he doesn't consider DLC till after the game? Can you honestly tell me with 100% certainty that when he looked at Isaac he never considered the possibility of saving him for DLC? Truth is, you can't, there is absolutely nothing stopping Sakurai from saving characters for DLC, in fact I would argue that due to how well Isaac did in the ballot, it may actually effect Sakurai's decision on whether or not to save them for DLC. He could simply say "Well, this character has a lot of support in the ballot but I don't think we can fit him into the base game due to time constraints so if the game sells well, we'll put him in 1 of the DLC packs.".
Obviously I'm not stating these as facts, I also don't know how Sakurai thinks but neither do you.
Also, when you say "Day 1" do you mean Day 1 of development? If so, that's right, he likely didn't plan DLC back that far but loads of things change during development and characters get cut. If things can be changed midway into development, so can plans for DLC.

You're right I don't know what he thinks but he has spoken on this before.
"The same goes for Sm4sh. We could have easily reserved a few characters on the current roster and later sold them as premium DLC. A considerable amount of work went into development, and the game would have already featured a ton of content. Plus, if you were looking to make a profit, DLC would be the way to go. Development is more costly than ever, yet the price of games has remained the same, so more income would help offset that imbalance.

However, the DLC we are releasing for Sm4sh is authentic, developed only after we finished working on the main game. Of course, said content will come to you at a premium as compensation for the work put into developing additional content post-production. Nintendo has the final say on the price, but given the number of man-hours spent on the creation of this DLC, I’d say it’s a great deal."
https://sourcegaming.wordpress.com/2015/04/23/sakurai-on-dlc-its-all-about-making-players-happy/

 

[Deleted member]

Isaac reveal trailer idea:
At a coliseum. Isaac (hidden in the shadows) walking through a tunnel leading to the arena with his scarf flowing out. Link, Marth and Shulk doing their best to fight Rathalos. They're down for the count. Rathalos goes for the final blow. BAM! Psynergy (hand, earth, Ragnarok, whatever) hits Rathalos. Everyone looks where it came from. *cue first three seconds of Isaac's battle theme* Camera zooms/angles into Isaac and BAM! "Isaac Lends a Hand"

That would be epic!

Seriously!!!

Why put that image and an item when veggie burger said he’s an assist kill him

 

[Pwnapplez]

The wait is killing me.

 

[Chiroz]

I'm not too familiar on what was being discussed here. However, I will say I have no connection with Verge or any other inside source for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. I also will go on record saying if any information were available to me, I would not rely or argue based on it. Furthermore, I don't want my career history to be used as a platform for my personal views, which are of my own and do not reflect current or previous employers.

I have been maintaining that, in my personal opinion and research, that the leak is a hoax. However, I am not basing this on any insider information or other leaker, including Verge. Furthermore, I am disappointed in the actions of my peers in the gaming industry only arguing on a platform based on sources, regardless of who or where they've originated. Doing so is not conducive to debate, especially if the goal is to convince the opposing side that you are correct. Again, this is entirely an opinion of my own and I'm not looking to argue or change anybody else's opinion or views on the matter. I only want to help people come to their own educated conclusion while combatting misinformation. As I've said hundreds of pages ago, I am a huge supporter of Isaac for Super Smash Bros. and have been since Brawl.

Thank you for clarifying your stance. So what are the main points you would say drove you to your conclusion on Isaac not being in the game (if that is in fact your conclusion, I think someone earlier in the thread said you spoke out and claimed that, I have not heard it directly from you though)?

 

[VexTheHex]

Here’s some points for y’all
View attachment 174181

Point 1 has already been proven untrue.
Point 2-4 is weird since the image is a blurry mess and can't be made out besides faintly what characters are. I honestly couldn't even tell what Ken was doing.
Point 7 is questionable after someone showcased the Grinch and dog were used in French promos already. The present box being the only new aspect.
Point 8 is the same as any other leak story. His dad's is Sakurai Grandma that works for a company that slept with Sakurai's cat that has 10 seconds alone in the closet with Nintendo's elite council that showcased for 5 seconds the entire roster that was captured in fake eye that serves as a oldschool camera and only takes blurry pictures.
Point 9 could easily be do to Smash fans commenting on the leak on the video and sending messages regarding it all. The company would not want LEAKER whether true or false all over their business.
Point 10 holds water, but it's the same as Box Theory or Music Theory which you people hated when not in favor of many newcomers. It's one of those hypocritical stand points where if you denied any possibility of those but open immediately to this as true, you're being blinded by favoritism. Same if the other opposite viewpoint that the Box/Music is true but deny this as a possibility.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I feel like with the Smash direct lasting for 40 minutes, we're pretty much locked into at least 5 more character reveals. (and probably more than that)

It's hard to imagine the direct lasting 13 minutes longer than the August direct and then revealing less characters.

 

[VexTheHex]

I feel like with the Smash direct lasting for 40 minutes, we're pretty much locked into at least 5 more character reveals. (and probably more than that)

It's hard to imagine the direct lasting 13 minutes longer than the August direct and then revealing less characters.

The modes, the Pokeball summons, new stages, new ATS, unshown Final Smashes, DLC future, random facts, etc.

There's still a bunch of stuff in the unknown that can fill the time. Especially the modes.

 

[Deleted member]

Point 1 has already been proven untrue.
Point 2-4 is weird since the image is a blurry mess and can't be made out besides faintly what characters are. I honestly couldn't even tell what Ken was doing.
Point 7 is questionable after someone showcased the Grinch and dog were used in French promos already. The present box being the only new aspect.
Point 8 is the same as any other leak story. His dad's is Sakurai Grandma that works for a company that slept with Sakurai's cat that has 10 seconds alone in the closet with Nintendo's elite council that showcased for 5 seconds the entire roster that was captured in fake eye that serves as a oldschool camera and only takes blurry pictures.
Point 9 could easily be do to Smash fans commenting on the leak on the video and sending messages regarding it all. The company would not want LEAKER whether true or false all over their business.
Point 10 holds water, but it's the same as Box Theory or Music Theory which you people hated when not in favor of man y newcomers. It's one of those hypocritical stand points where if you denied any possibility of those but open immediately to this as true, you're being blinded by favoritism. Same if the other opposite viewpoint that the Box/Music is true but deny this as a possibility.

I refuse to listen

 

[Sabrewulf238]

The modes, the Pokeball summons, new stages, new ATS, unshown Final Smashes, DLC future, random facts, etc.

There's still a bunch of stuff in the unknown that can fill the time. Especially the modes.

The August direct had segments detailing modes, pokeball summons, stages and assist trophies, along with the 5 character reveals. So I don't think you can really count those, or at least they likely won't take up much more time than they did in the August direct. (with the exception of spirit mode, but even then I doubt he's going to tell us that much about the mode, he'll likely just tell us what it is and then show off some bosses)

 

[VexTheHex]

The August direct had segments detailing modes, pokeball summons, stages and assist trophies, along with the 5 character reveals. So I don't think you can really count those, or at least they likely won't take up much more time than they did in the August direct.

True, but I can see us getting some trailers and long talk in regards to this big secret mode. Solo mode like Classic/All Star hasn't even touched either has it? Then there is also Online. These could all be pretty hefty.

I think 5 unique newcomers as expectation is too high myself. I could see Isaac, if delayed cause of circumstances, beefing it up some. But I'd be shocked if they decided to go months of nothing to save 5(+) for the finale when they never seemed to go for big finales in reveals. It could be a first though.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

True, but I can see us getting some trailers and long talk in regards to this big secret mode. Solo mode like Classic/All Star hasn't even touched either has it? Then there is also Online. These could all be pretty hefty.

I think 5 unique newcomers as expectation is too high myself. I could see Isaac, if delayed cause of circumstances, beefing it up some. But I'd be shocked if they decided to go months of nothing to save 5(+) for the finale when they never seemed to go for big finales in reveals. It could be a first though.

Classic mode was in the August direct.

Also consider that there's a treehouse segment afterwards, so they may go into even more detail on Classic, Spirits and other modes during that. While Sakurai may just give a general overview of how Spirit mode works.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

juat thought i would post this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ8VyX8-PV8&feature=youtu.be&t=1925

nintendo does spread false information (if im listen right)

 

[TechnoHighlander]

We should not get too excited if we see Rathalos in a CGI trailer because that could lead to a Monster Hunter Rep reveal instead.

 

[Q-Long]

The Grinch's nickname should be UPS Delivery Guy cause he's about to destroy alot of boxes and cards

 

[VexTheHex]

We should not get too excited if we see Rathalos in a CGI trailer because that could lead to a Monster Hunter Rep reveal instead.

Pretty sure he/she would of been showcased already if so. I support a Monster Hunter rep and feel it gets underplayed on here. But I think DLC is their only chance this game.

 

[Ninetales Commander]

You're right I don't know what he thinks but he has spoken on this before.
"The same goes for Sm4sh. We could have easily reserved a few characters on the current roster and later sold them as premium DLC. A considerable amount of work went into development, and the game would have already featured a ton of content. Plus, if you were looking to make a profit, DLC would be the way to go. Development is more costly than ever, yet the price of games has remained the same, so more income would help offset that imbalance.

However, the DLC we are releasing for Sm4sh is authentic, developed only after we finished working on the main game. Of course, said content will come to you at a premium as compensation for the work put into developing additional content post-production. Nintendo has the final say on the price, but given the number of man-hours spent on the creation of this DLC, I’d say it’s a great deal."
https://sourcegaming.wordpress.com/2015/04/23/sakurai-on-dlc-its-all-about-making-players-happy/

Yeah see, the problem with this comment is he's referring to actual development. I'm not talking about them holding back developed characters for DLC, I'm talking them holding off potential characters as DLC. There's a world of difference between putting characters on the shelf for potential future use and actually developing characters. This comment is clearly referring to literal physical development, not referring to merely putting them aside for possible future use. Yeah sure, Sakurai has gone on record saying that all the content in Smash Bros 4's DLC was made after the main game was completed but that's not saying he didn't deliberately put Mewtwo, Lucas, etc aside in the potential event that DLC would be given the green light.
The same could be said for Isaac, if Isaac doesn't appear at all in the base game, it doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't popular enough, it just could signify that Sakurai merely decided to put him aside should Nintendo give the green light on DLC for Smash Bros Ultimate.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Furthermore, I don't want my career history to be used as a platform for my personal views, which are of my own and do not reflect current or previous employers.

If you did not want your career history involved then you would not have based it or mentioned it in the discord.

I have been maintaining that, in my personal opinion and research, that the leak is a hoax. However, I am not basing this on any insider information or other leaker, including Verge. Furthermore, I am disappointed in the actions of my peers in the gaming industry only arguing on a platform based on sources, regardless of who or where they've originated.

Great another person who says the Grinch Leak is fake without going into detail why it is. That is no different than what Vergeben and other "insiders" are doing.
Edit:

I also will go on record saying if any information were available to me, I would not rely or argue based on it.

So why is the word "research" mentioned in your post regarding the leak if you would not rely or argue based on any information available to you?

 

[THE 6r]

I'm not too familiar on what was being discussed here. However, I will say I have no connection with Verge or any other inside source for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. I also will go on record saying if any information were available to me, I would not rely or argue based on it. Furthermore, I don't want my career history to be used as a platform for my personal views, which are of my own and do not reflect current or previous employers.

I have been maintaining that, in my personal opinion and research, that the leak is a hoax. However, I am not basing this on any insider information or other leaker, including Verge. Furthermore, I am disappointed in the actions of my peers in the gaming industry only arguing on a platform based on sources, regardless of who or where they've originated. Doing so is not conducive to debate, especially if the goal is to convince the opposing side that you are correct. Again, this is entirely an opinion of my own and I'm not looking to argue or change anybody else's opinion or views on the matter. I only want to help people come to their own educated conclusion while combatting misinformation. As I've said hundreds of pages ago, I am a huge supporter of Isaac for Super Smash Bros. and have been since Brawl.

[citation needed]

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I found this really cool picture of Isaac on Twitter...

#RT @IsaacforSmash: RT @tysonpease: #inktober x #smashtober day 30: Isaac, master of earth-moving psynergy#inktober2018 #digital #ink #inkwash #illustration #isaac #goldensun #camelotsoftwareplanning #nintendo #smashbrosultimate #videogame pic.twitter.com/jPbeSQDIpo

— Silver Moon (@silvermoonsaga) October 31, 2018

 

[Q-Long]

you guys gotta calm down lol

most people are just saying the leak might be fake, theyre not saying they hope its fake

 

[VexTheHex]

Great another person who says the Grinch Leak is fake without going into detail why it is. That is no different than what Vergeben and other "insiders" are doing.

To be fair any indications and proof it could be faked is mocked and given 0 counters except the person would have to take the time to do it.

That's the only counter.

The literal only counter.

That being said, we will all know soon enough. The more savage people get with eachother, the more the Smash fandom looks like a bunch of playground children which leakers on both sides (True or False) have already indicated. And people are still eating up these leakers words and picking sides based on assumptions.

 

[Istry555]

I don't really give Vergeben much credibility. He's always been very vague about most things (to not be wrong in case it doesn't happen) and never had info on assists before, then, suddenly, the day before the last direct, he comes and outright states Isaac is an assist.

This is also on top of the fact that Vergeben has been outright trolly and mocking to Isaac's chances before AND when he said Isaac was an assist he did so by posting a gif of a mic drop. The whole thing comes off as him being an ass one last time to the community than having legitimate new info.

The "insiders" are also an echo chamber and like to repeat whatever one of the other "insiders" has leaked if its become popular in the community more so than each of them getting the same info from their sources.

 

[AmateurKnight23]

True

Isaac reveal trailer idea:
At a coliseum. Isaac (hidden in the shadows) walking through a tunnel leading to the arena with his scarf flowing out. Link, Marth and Shulk doing their best to fight Rathalos. They're down for the count. Rathalos goes for the final blow. BAM! Psynergy (hand, earth, Ragnarok, whatever) hits Rathalos. Everyone looks where it came from. *cue first three seconds of Isaac's battle theme* Camera zooms/angles into Isaac and BAM! "Isaac Lends a Hand"

That would be epic!

I like where your heads at. I keep thinking that it’s gonna happen in a similar way to this. I’d like to see some humor thrown in, like the other trailers had. Like maybe, they lead you to believe that the Rathalos defeated them, but the camera flips suddenly to show a little innocent-looking djinn. Or before Isaac enters, a giant white hand awkwardly plucks/pushes his fallen comrades’ weapons back to them. Then, they all line up in that sexy GS angle BABYYYYY!!!!

 

[Confirmation]

Honestly I have no clue what's going on anymore and am just gonna wait for tomorrow expecting three Little Mac echoes.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

To be fair any indications and proof it could be faked is mocked and given 0 counters except the person would have to take the time to do it.

Except nobody has given any real indications why it could possibly be faked besides "my sources said", except for Artsy Omni who was the only person who provided any substantial evidence that could possibly lead the Grinch Leak to being fake.
Note: And Artsy Omni has decided to stay neutral on the status of the Leak.
Edit: He wasn't able to form anything conclusive.

Nobody else have ever tried besides agreeing with other "insiders" without posting anything substantial.

 

[Q-Long]

The average Smash character trailer is 2 to 3 minutes. We have plenty of time.

Though some of them are low quality like Duck Hunt's or Isabelle's while some of them might have a lot of CG like Simon's or Greninja's

 

[Pyzlnar]

The day of reckoning draws nearer, and I'm still holding faith in Isaac. I'm prepared for whatever outcome the future holds, but I'm hoping it's one where we see Isaac and the other Grinch Leak characters join the fight.

We're almost 15 hours away from the reckoning.
I'd say we're already in the day of the reckoning.

 

[Organization XIII]

Yeah see, the problem with this comment is he's referring to actual development. I'm not talking about them holding back developed characters for DLC, I'm talking them holding off potential characters as DLC. There's a world of difference between putting characters on the shelf for potential future use and actually developing characters. This comment is clearly referring to literal physical development, not referring to merely putting them aside for possible future use. Yeah sure, Sakurai has gone on record saying that all the content in Smash Bros 4's DLC was made after the main game was completed but that's not saying he didn't deliberately put Mewtwo, Lucas, etc aside in the potential event that DLC would be given the green light.
The same could be said for Isaac, if Isaac doesn't appear at all in the base game, it doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't popular enough, it just could signify that Sakurai merely decided to put him aside should Nintendo give the green light on DLC for Smash Bros Ultimate.

No, it means he has no intentions of making characters be DLC for later purchase which is exactly what you're trying to say the will do with Isaac. There is no hope for DLC friend. I've been over this a thousand times and every single point you've raised I've asked myself before. DLC is not the mighty saving force if the AT is gone. I want him so badly but I'm not going to ignore things for fantasy. I'm dropping this because he still has a great shot for base and so hopefully this whole conversation will be pointless after tomorrow. If he's not there then we can continue.

 

[VexTheHex]

Except nobody has given any real indications why it could possibly be faked besides "my sources said". Artsy Omni was the only person who provided any substantial evidence that could possibly lead the Grinch Leak to being fake.
Note: And Artsy Omni has decided to stay neutral on the status of the Leak.

Nobody else have ever tried besides agreeing with other "insiders" without posting anything substantial.

Not talking about these leakers, most of them are probably frauds looking for fame, trolling, and tips.

People with 15 minutes of Photoshop education have showcased how easy it is to move around and mock up the banner. Grinch's artwork actually existing in France also surfaced. Either way someone with any sort of time and Photoshop effort could produce this if they really wanted to. If they did work at a marketing place or knew someone who did, they'd also have access to more tools to use.

It's basically...


Believe in it or not, but till we have concrete evidence either way we can't say for certain. Trying to deny or believe in it fully isn't the best outlook.

 

[Istry555]

You know, if Isaac is not playable I would actually be happy for him to be an assist instead of nothing.

If Smash 4 was anything to go by, DLC ends up being mostly third party and advertisement. I wouldn't be surprised if that happened again, so I'm not really confident in the whole we can campaign him in as DLC if he's not playable angle.

 

[Ninetales Commander]

Is it sad that I'm just sitting here listening to Golden Sun Music?

 

[VexTheHex]

You know, if Isaac is not playable I would actually be happy for him to be an assist instead of nothing.

If Smash 4 was anything to go by, DLC ends up being mostly third party and advertisement. I wouldn't be surprised if that happened again, so I'm not really confident in the whole we can campaign him in as DLC if he's not playable angle.

I'm not sure which route they'd take. I'm hoping Spring Man gets in as DLC, but I don't know if ARMS will get lucky enough for that. I don't know if we can predict how it goes down, but I kind of doubt we'll get a Ballot 2.

 

[Nossnitro102]

Who the hell is monokuma?

He's probably referring to Verg yes but the character itself is a main antagonist of the Danganronpa series. Which is where this gem comes from.

I'd say give the game a play but make sure you do it in order (you might also have to do some reading and watching to get the correct story progression as fair warning, it's a little complicated at points).

 

[Ookami Ryo]

I wonder Move is a fire psynergy right?

 

[MatthewVenusAdept]

I find that staying neutral lessons the pain if it is wrong but makes it even more satisfying if it's real, sooooo...

 

[VexTheHex]

He's probably referring to Verg yes but the character itself is a main antagonist of the Danganronpa series. Which is where this gem comes from. View attachment 174201I'd say give the game a play but make sure you do it in order (you might also have to do some reading and watching to get the correct story progression as fair warning, it's a little complicated at points).

So we get Geno and Ken? Everyone else dies. xD