Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Diddy Kong]

Nintendo could revive a retro character and add stealth to their game.

I'm not sure who lol

It could be possible to tweak Breath of the Wild's stealth system a little with far more debt, and make Sheik the playable character instead of Link? That's also a sort of old skool revival, Sheik hasn't appeared in a game since her debut in Ocarina of Time, if you count Hyrule Warriors, then that would only be her second appearance outside of Smash, ever.

Outside of that, Star Fox could offer a lot with stealth elements added to it on on-foot missions.

There isn't really all that much more possible I think.

 

[TappyBat]

It could be possible to tweak Breath of the Wild's stealth system a little with far more debt, and make Sheik the playable character instead of Link? That's also a sort of old skool revival, Sheik hasn't appeared in a game since her debut in Ocarina of Time, if you count Hyrule Warriors, then that would only be her second appearance outside of Smash, ever.

Outside of that, Star Fox could offer a lot with stealth elements added to it on on-foot missions.

There isn't really all that much more possible I think.

"a playable zelda!? preposterous! she only exists for infp dumps and getting in trouble! Link must do everything! everything!" -nintendo

 

[ZelDan]

It could be possible to tweak Breath of the Wild's stealth system a little with far more debt, and make Sheik the playable character instead of Link? That's also a sort of old skool revival, Sheik hasn't appeared in a game since her debut in Ocarina of Time, if you count Hyrule Warriors, then that would only be her second appearance outside of Smash, ever.

Outside of that, Star Fox could offer a lot with stealth elements added to it on on-foot missions.

There isn't really all that much more possible I think.

It would be cool to have a game with a playable Zelda/Sheik (that isn't smash or a dynasty warriors spin-off). Maybe at times you play as Zelda, interacting with royal Hyrule members and maybe Hyrulian citizens, getting **** done doing Princess stuff, etc.

But then at other times change into your Sheik Persona, going out at secret whenever possible, whooping bad guy tooshie and REALLY getting **** done. Doesn't necessarily have to be stealth based either (though not opposed to it). It'd be nice to see Zelda get more of a spotlight within her own series.

 

[GoodGrief741]

It could be possible to tweak Breath of the Wild's stealth system a little with far more debt, and make Sheik the playable character instead of Link? That's also a sort of old skool revival, Sheik hasn't appeared in a game since her debut in Ocarina of Time, if you count Hyrule Warriors, then that would only be her second appearance outside of Smash, ever.

Outside of that, Star Fox could offer a lot with stealth elements added to it on on-foot missions.

There isn't really all that much more possible I think.

I’d rather a new IP than another spin-off from the same three franchises.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

Huh, just stopping by to say hi!

I hope you're all doing well? :3

 

[SonicLink125]

Huh, just stopping by to say hi!

I hope you're all doing well?

Thank you! Same to you! Just been a slow day, waiting for new info. As usual. lol

 

[KoopaSaki]

Thank you! Same to you! Just been a slow day, waiting for new info. As usual. lol

At the rate we’re going, I’m just gonna place my bets on an announcement tomorrow. That and the next music track tonight just might be a track from Shantae or Isaac hinting at their inclusion. (I can dream)

 

[Fire Tactician]

At the rate we’re going, I’m just gonna place my bets on an announcement tomorrow. That and the next music track tonight just might be a track from Shantae or Isaac hinting at their inclusion. (I can dream)

Don't say that! I feel like if the track is from Golden Sun, that's a soft disconfirmation of a character. We're not expecting a Galaga or Tomodachi rep at this point, so them showing off Golden Sun as music would be like them saying, "Look at this cool Nintendo song from a series that doesn't have a character! Isn't it pretty cool we're acknowledging it?"

 

[GoodGrief741]

Don't say that! I feel like if the track is from Golden Sun, that's a soft disconfirmation of a character. We're not expecting a Galaga or Tomodachi rep at this point, so them showing off Golden Sun as music would be like them saying, "Look at this cool Nintendo song from a series that doesn't have a character! Isn't it pretty cool we're acknowledging it?"

I think the Galaga and Tomodachi songs are supposed to be for Pac-Man and Mii (as franchises), though.

 

[TempestSurge]

At the rate we’re going, I’m just gonna place my bets on an announcement tomorrow. That and the next music track tonight just might be a track from Shantae or Isaac hinting at their inclusion. (I can dream)

The Golden Sun track has to be uploaded after Isaac's reveal, not before (so not tonight to go along with the music theory). Like how with the delay of Isabelle's reveal, the animal crossing song was delayed along with her until she was officially revealed. Though if we get an announcement of a direct/trailer reveal tomorrow and the day of said direct/trailer reveal (whichever day that is) a Golden Sun track was revealed a head of the character trailer, that'd be the Castlevania goof all over again, but not sure if we'll get a situation like that twice.

 

[TappyBat]

yeah that was only cause someone on ninty's side f***** up.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Still pulling for you guys to get your Golden Boy. Don't give up hope!

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

Still holding onto hope. Sabi says next week works for news of tomorrow still brings nothing

 

[FlintIke]

I still think at this point that there is absolutely no way that Isaac is gonna be an AT.

If they wanted to include him in the previous game somehow, they would at least included him as a trophy lol. I think the ballot and the overall support that was shown these past years hopefully made them realize that Isaac deserves a spot to represent his wonderful games.

Sure there will be more ATs in the next direct but I am still confident that neither Isaac nor Shadow will be one of them at this point, since they already got rid of characters like Ashley, Waluigi, Shovel Knight, Bomberman etc. which were popular choices.
It will mostlikely be similar to Isabelle with the exception that we don't have a sign for Golden Sun at all (besides some hints here and there...torture).

So I guess the fact that we got some hints here and there and absolutely no AT, OST, Item or ANYTHING from Golden Sun at this point in the game makes me wonder what the reason behind this might be (and the whole trademark thingy seems too fishy to me). And like I stated a few times: I think it will be similar to Simon/Richter where Sakurai will need some minutes to introduce our golden boy (hopefully with Felix as an echo), his mechanics, the stage, maybe Matthew/Jenna AT and perhaps even Saturos as stage hazard (since they kinda seem to like more boss hazards) and hopefully a godlike arrangement/remix for Isaac's Battle Theme <3

At this point they are just torturing us until the reveal happens xD Cause I feel like he is soooo gonna be in but they just don't want to show him... yet and if we are REALLY unlucky, he might even be the very last newcomer to be introduced... Lucky us then...

Might want to play GS a 3rd time until the next direct arrives.

 

[TempestSurge]

I still think at this point that there is absolutely no way that Isaac is gonna be an AT.

If they wanted to include him in the previous game somehow, they would at least included him as a trophy lol. I think the ballot and the overall support that was shown these past years hopefully made them realize that Isaac deserves a spot to represent his wonderful games.

Sure there will be more ATs in the next direct but I am still confident that neither Isaac nor Shadow will be one of them at this point, since they already got rid of characters like Ashley, Waluigi, Shovel Knight, Bomberman etc. which were popular choices.
It will mostlikely be similar to Isabelle with the exception that we don't have a sign for Golden Sun at all (besides some hints here and there...torture).

So I guess the fact that we got some hints here and there and absolutely no AT, OST, Item or ANYTHING from Golden Sun at this point in the makes me wonder what the reason behind this might be (and the whole trademark thingy seems too fishy to me). And like I stated a few times: I think it will be similar to Simon/Richter where Sakurai will need some minutes to introduce our golden boy (hopefully with Felix as an echo), his mechanics, the stage, maybe Matthew/Jenna AT and perhaps even Saturos as stage hazard (since they kinda seem to like more boss hazards) and hopefully a godlike arrangement/remix for Isaac's Battle Theme <3

At this point they are just torturing us until the reveal happens xD Cause I feel like he is soooo gonna be in but they just don't want to show him... yet and if we are REALLY unlucky, he might even be the very last newcomer to be introduced... Lucky us then...

Might want to play GS a 3rd time until the next direct arrives.

Strap in, kick back, chill to November. I've sort of accepted that we'll be boarding this train straight up till release. I'll be very surprised to see Isaac outside of a Smash direct. Not only will he be a new franchise that will require an overview from Sakurai but in the case he returns as an assist, there's upwards to about 19 that could still be revealed which also won't be showcased until a Smash direct. We'll see Isaac one way or another come that final smash direct.

Though still got to worry about a Golden Sun popping up till then, music theory and all.

Edit: Actually I'm surprised how little Shadow seems to be talked about. I felt like he was one of the names thrown around and speculated in the beginning along with Chrom/Isabelle etc. but after Verge got further validation with Isabelle, talks turned to Incineroar and Ken as the 100% confirmed echo (even more so with the box theory). Yet Shadow is in the same position as Isabelle was, his assist trophy got replaced and repped with another character from the franchise. Hard to imagine Shadow getting dropped completely. Of the assist trophies left: Shadow, Skull Kid, and Isaac stand out the most.

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

I'd be satisfied if Isaac was released from whatever Gulag he was sent to in Smash 4. How many other characters have been unpersoned like Isaac? Snake?

 

[FlintIke]

Strap in, kick back, chill to November. I've sort of accepted that we'll be boarding this train straight up till release. I'll be very surprised to see Isaac outside of a Smash direct. Not only will he be a new franchise that will require an overview from Sakurai but in the case he returns as an assist, there's upwards to about 19 that could still be revealed which also won't be showcased until a Smash direct. We'll see Isaac one way or another come that final smash direct.

Though still got to worry about a Golden Sun popping up till then, music theory and all.

Edit: Actually I'm surprised how little Shadow seems to be talked about. I felt like he was one of the names thrown around and speculated in the beginning along with Chrom/Isabelle etc. but after Verge got further validation with Isabelle, talks turned to Incineroar and Ken as the 100% confirmed echo (even more so with the box theory). Yet Shadow is in the same position as Isabelle was, his assist trophy got replaced and repped with another character from the franchise. Hard to imagine Shadow getting dropped completely. Of the assist trophies left: Shadow, Skull Kid, and Isaac stand out the most.

I think there will be at least 2-3 characters that will catch everybody off-guard since many people are on the "Incineroar and Ken - train".
And at this point even Isaac and Shadow would fulfill that role to a certain point imo. Can't wait for the "Yeah I knew Isaac was coming but didn't feel like telling BS" or something among those lines. Regardless I am still very confident but I am very annoyed by how long it feels like to get some news regarding new characters... I hope there will be a direct soon since I am rly getting tired of waiting ~.~

 

[THE 6r]

I think there will be at least 2-3 characters that will catch everybody off-guard since many people are on the "Incineroar and Ken - train".
And at this point even Isaac and Shadow would fulfill that role to a certain point imo. Can't wait for the "Yeah I knew Isaac was coming but didn't feel like telling BS" or something among those lines. Regardless I am still very confident but I am very annoyed by how long it feels like to get some news regarding new characters... I hope there will be a direct soon since I am rly getting tired of waiting ~.~

TBH, just a tweet that said even SOMETHING new about the game (even if it were as minor as confirming that everything is going ok) would be very welcome.

Edit: Found this interesting article talking about why the alleged "Square Rep" hasn't been named yet. IDK if any of you have seen it yet, but definitely give it a read.

 

[Fire Tactician]

I feel like I'm in the minority when I say that I wouldn't mind if my characters were made assist trophies over being left out completely. Sure, you have the DLC is more likely for missing characters than assist trophies, but nobody knows for sure what a characters' likelihood of getting into the roster as DLC is.

It's like Sakurai handles DLC as an opportunity to make possible things that weren't before, which to me seems like mostly new characters (Rex, Gen VIII Pokemon, Edelgard, Springman) or requested crossovers (Sora, Banjo, Heihachi) rather than requests that missed the ship the first time around, because, whether we like like it or not, there had to have been a reason why a character missed the base roster. I think that unless there's another ballot-esque thing that's looking for the most requested newcomer, older ones that missed the base roster don't seem as likely as others who fulfill the requirements I mentioned previously. Resultantly, I'd much rather have Isaac appear as an assist trophy so that I know that they at least thought of him than not at all as a pipe dream for a DLC character when there's already a massively bloated pool of more recent, maybe better selling, options.

 

[FlawedAI]

TBH, just a tweet that said even SOMETHING new about the game (even if it were as minor as confirming that everything is going ok) would be very welcome.

Edit: Found this interesting article talking about why the alleged "Square Rep" hasn't been named yet. IDK if any of you have seen it yet, but definitely give it a read.

I believe this post was debunked here a while back, I know it was dissected somewhere, but I can't remember if it was on Reddit or here. Either way, it's not right.

But yeah, the absolute drought of info between Directs is ****ing killer, man. It's just this massive dump of info they just leave us with for like two months until another massive dump. It's maddening, to say the least.

 

[MeatOfJustice]

So today's track is [Id]~Purpose from FE: Awakening.

Does this affect the music theory?

 

[THE 6r]

So today's track is [Id]~Purpose from FE: Awakening.

Does this affect the music theory?

It's-a-dead

 

[Billybae10K]

The music theory is slain, Incineroar's chances are more likely now that we can have repeat tracks, but Motoi Sakuraba is still yet to be seen. The composer side of Music Theory still holds, even if the franchise side of Music Theory is dead and dusted.

 

[TheCJBrine]

There's a composer side to Music Theory...?

wat.

 

[MeatOfJustice]

There's a composer side to Music Theory...?

wat.

Yes. We have gotten 1 different composer for each remix, except for the main theme.
-
The worst part is that it's another point for card/boxists.

 

[FlawedAI]

Woah! BIG blow to Music Theory: The new song is Id (Purpose) from Fire Emblem Awakening! A series has two tracks! THIS IS NOT A DRILL!

 

[THE 6r]

FINALLY. Something to talk about. I remember this feeling. EXCITEMENT!!!

 

[TheCJBrine]

Yes. We have gotten 1 different composer for each remix, except for the main theme.
-
The worst part is that it's another point for card/boxists.

I don't think I understand how this keeps music theory alive, especially when I haven't heard of it even in the thread that explained it. This in no way disconfirms newcomers from series who already have music, anyway.

 

[FlawedAI]

I don't think I understand how this keeps music theory alive, especially when I haven't heard of it even in the thread that explained it. This is no way disconfirms newcomers from series who already have music.

Well, this specifically relates to Isaac, as since we know Motoi Sakuraba is working on the game, but haven't seen him on the website yet, so the accepting reasoning is they're saving him for a Golden Sun remix we haven't seen yet, to be revealed alongside Isaac.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Well, this specifically relates to Isaac, as since we know Motoi Sakuraba is working on the game, but haven't seen him on the website yet, so the accepting reasoning is they're saving him for a Golden Sun remix we haven't seen yet, to be revealed alongside Isaac.

Ah, okay, I get it now; I thought this was some weird new addition to the main theory, not a character-exclusive point that I can see making sense :S

 

[Billybae10K]

I don't think I understand how this keeps music theory alive, especially when I haven't heard of it even in the thread that explained it. This in no way disconfirms newcomers from series who already have music, anyway.

Oh, music theory is dead. It's just the composer portion of the theory that still has legs and the only known composer on the game, yet to have a track on the site, is Motoi Sakuraba, the composer behind the Golden Sun franchise. So as others said, it's specifically for Golden Sun as far as speculation goes.

'd

 

[Kisae]

Oh so music theory is down hmm but agai Id Purpose. Ok I love the song but isn't it like the 3rd song with the name? XD

On another point it gives credit to box/card theory.. F**k

 

[QcSlayer]

Fitting how Fire Emblem is the serie whit too many tracks lol, but I don't care,

GS composer is yet to be seen.

 

[MeatOfJustice]

I don't think I understand how this keeps music theory alive, especially when I haven't heard of it even in the thread that explained it. This in no way disconfirms newcomers from series who already have music, anyway.

Many of us used to believe it did due to the AC music being delayed along with Isabelle after the earthquake.

Well, this specifically relates to Isaac, as since we know Motoi Sakuraba is working on the game, but haven't seen him on the website yet, so the accepting reasoning is they're saving him for a Golden Sun remix we haven't seen yet, to be revealed alongside Isaac.

Sakuraba could always do a Tales remix if Lloyd is in, we're bros so I wouldn't mind (if they're both in, even better). Or we get something from him from a franchise he wasn't a composer on worst case scenario.

 

[FlawedAI]

Man, I'm really frustrated Music Theory is dead. It was a great point against a new Pokemon rep (which I don't believe we're getting), and it seemed to be a nice pattern lining up. Oh well, I guess we go back to Blog Theory.

 

[TempestSurge]

I feel like I'm in the minority when I say that I wouldn't mind if my characters were made assist trophies over being left out completely. Sure, you have the DLC is more likely for missing characters than assist trophies, but nobody knows for sure what a characters' likelihood of getting into the roster as DLC is.

It's like Sakurai handles DLC as an opportunity to make possible things that weren't before, which to me seems like mostly new characters (Rex, Gen VIII Pokemon, Edelgard, Springman) or requested crossovers (Sora, Banjo, Heihachi) rather than requests that missed the ship the first time around, because, whether we like like it or not, there had to have been a reason why a character missed the base roster. I think that unless there's another ballot-esque thing that's looking for the most requested newcomer, older ones that missed the base roster don't seem as likely as others who fulfill the requirements I mentioned previously. Resultantly, I'd much rather have Isaac appear as an assist trophy so that I know that they at least thought of him than not at all as a pipe dream for a DLC character when there's already a massively bloated pool of more recent, maybe better selling, options.

I don't agree. Smash 4 DLC Sakurai brought back Mewtwo, Lucas, and Roy. With Mewtwo he states that he had tons of requests among the old fighters but it was hard to add him in the vanilla base game so he was chosen as the first dlc character and Roy and Lucas were the next popular requests. Honestly this same thing could have been applied to Roy in 4, tons thought he was never coming back and that dlc would pass him over for other characters.

 

[Isaac for Smash Pls]

I feel like I'm in the minority when I say that I wouldn't mind if my characters were made assist trophies over being left out completely. Sure, you have the DLC is more likely for missing characters than assist trophies, but nobody knows for sure what a characters' likelihood of getting into the roster as DLC is.

It's like Sakurai handles DLC as an opportunity to make possible things that weren't before, which to me seems like mostly new characters (Rex, Gen VIII Pokemon, Edelgard, Springman) or requested crossovers (Sora, Banjo, Heihachi) rather than requests that missed the ship the first time around, because, whether we like like it or not, there had to have been a reason why a character missed the base roster. I think that unless there's another ballot-esque thing that's looking for the most requested newcomer, older ones that missed the base roster don't seem as likely as others who fulfill the requirements I mentioned previously. Resultantly, I'd much rather have Isaac appear as an assist trophy so that I know that they at least thought of him than not at all as a pipe dream for a DLC character when there's already a massively bloated pool of more recent, maybe better selling, options.

We've only had one round of DLC so far, so I don't think that's a large enough sample size of data to make definitive statements like "DLC is an opportunity to realize things that weren't possible before." That doesn't even line up with the DLC we already had. Maybe that's the case for Cloud, but what about Mewtwo and Lucas and Roy, who just didn't make the cut for the base roster? You're on to something by saying that DLC is probably a better opportunity to sell more marketable characters, but I'd honestly rather have Isaac left out of the base game altogether, because even if the chances of him becoming DLC in the case are 1%, the chances of him being upgraded from an Assist Trophy are 0% unless Sakurai decides to make a very special exception. And if any character is likely to get an upgrade it would be Waluigi first given the (admittedly facetious) fan "backlash" to his AT reveal.

But I think the biggest argument against it is very simply that Isaac is a fairly highly requested character, so if he was an Assist Trophy, Sakurai would have revealed him early on so that people could be let down easy. He isn't the type to string people along, imo, so either Isaac is playable, or he's not in the game in any way shape or form. I mean, I could be wrong and he's just an unrevealed Assist Trophy but given the lack of conclusive data either way that's what I'm going to choose to believe.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Sorry about the mix-up; as I mentioned before, I'm interested in Golden Sun, however I'm not familiar with it nor all that has happened in this thread, so I didn't realize Isaac had his own Music Theory :S

 

[TheSpaceKing12]

Call me crazy, But as i've sat down here observing the newcomer list. I think I might have found a pattern. Inkling, Ridley, Simon, K rool, Isabelle. I've been sitting here for a while trying to think of what that could mean, why they would order things out in this manner. Then it hit me. Every other fighter is a character that was prevalent in the ballot, follow this.

The ballot basically didn't have to play a role to get the Inklings in. I mean I saw fans asking online, but nowhere near as much so as the really big names. They were a dead give away, with or without a ballot. But the next newcomer is Ridley, who is obviously a fighter fans pushed hard for online. Simon came after, who is seemingly Ultimate's big new third party representative. Not saying he's not worthy, but I don't know about you. But who was a big Simon supporter during the ballot era? I didn't see him on many poles at all. Then we get to K rool, who again, was humongous so much so Sakurai even said he got a ton of votes. Go next to Isabelle who was like inklings, the next most obvious shoe in, I doubt that ballot was the defining factor for her as she was already an assist, but her popularity and recency spoke for itself.

So going by this, assuming this is the pattern, I have a strong feeling whoever is next will be a character that is a heavy as heck fan demand. Be it Geno, or Isaac. Then we can follow up with another -obvious- choice. Probably Incineroar. So if we do get a direct, I expect the inverse of the last smash direct. Where we open up with character that will set the internet on fire, and close on a character that while sure to make some folks happy, wasn't a huge factor in the ballot. I'd also like to think that seeing as we started off with a character who didn't have MASSIVE ballot support, that being Inklings, would it not be appropriate to also end off on a character who fans wanted? So my prediction would go, Isaac, Incinroar, Geno. Or, Geno, Incinroar, Isaac. And those are our final true newcomers for the base roster. Again this is all predicated under the assumption that a pattern exists. i'm just thinking about things is all.

 

[Deleted member]

Would have prefered another franchise getting a new track, honestly.