Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Diddy Kong]

I'm confused that Torna was released on physical cards, but what do I know?

To try and get back on track, how about we do some lore building for Golden Sun, going back to discussing recreational activities on Weyard. I feel like that was a pretty underdeveloped aspect, considering in the original game, all we had learned, lore-wise was:

*Lunpa was a town named after a noble thief, but is now ruled by said thief's evil grandson.
*Martial arts are taught in southern Angara.
*There's a Silk Road between Xian and Kalay, that has to go through the hottest desert in the world.
*Tolbi has an annual gladiatorial spectacular, but beyond that is relatively boring.
*Gondowan's Sulhalla region was woefully underdeveloped.
*Somehow there was a wormhole to another dimension where Crossbone Isle is, and all you had to do was make a chef row.

One of my earliest headcanon moments for Golden Sun was imagining Iodem in charge of Tolbi by default and what would happen to the city after Babi's death. My assumption was that Iodem didn't have the beliefs that Babi had, so he likely would have tried to make amends to Lalivero and that region of Gondowan, only for it to be a difficult few years since one of Tolbi's gimmicks besides Colosso was that guy who lived for several hundred years.

This makes me realise that Angara was basically the most developed continent in all of Weyard. It's weird how empty all the other regions feel compared to it. Even TLA does it, with how widespread the towns all seem to be. Contigo for example, had just one little town before you hit up the Jupiter Lighthouse. Kind of underwhelming. Especially since in the original Golden Sun, there was TONS of towns. Shaman's Village is also the only town in the whole damn continent where it's on, Hesperia, with just one cave leading to it. Gondowan is the biggest continent but just had one proper town in TLA... Compare that all with the original Golden Sun's Angara, and I now see it's no wonder Dark Dawn had most of their story happening in Angara and the Eastern Sea. If a remake where to be made, the Western Sea needs a lot more love, as you won't really hit a proper town anymore untill you get near Prox and Mars Lighthouse.

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

This makes me realise that Angara was basically the most developed continent in all of Weyard. It's weird how empty all the other regions feel compared to it. Even TLA does it, with how widespread the towns all seem to be. Contigo for example, had just one little town before you hit up the Jupiter Lighthouse. Kind of underwhelming. Especially since in the original Golden Sun, there was TONS of towns. Shaman's Village is also the only town in the whole damn continent where it's on, Hesperia, with just one cave leading to it. Gondowan is the biggest continent but just had one proper town in TLA... Compare that all with the original Golden Sun's Angara, and I now see it's no wonder Dark Dawn had most of their story happening in Angara and the Eastern Sea. If a remake where to be made, the Western Sea needs a lot more love, as you won't really hit a proper town anymore untill you get near Prox and Mars Lighthouse.

Yeah, I feel like the scope of TLA compared with what the GBA could realistically handle kinda screwed with that a bit. Hopefully if they remake the games they can rectify this issue.

There are a lot of areas that need more love. There’s way too much empty space in TLA to the point where going off the beaten path will either reward you with...

A summon.

Or

**** all.

 

[Kalaam]

Also, there is no point adding towns if they aren't relevant to the story at some point.
Keep in mind that in jrpgs, just like the battle system is a simplification, a representation of the fight, in the story the characters aren't waiting each other to finish their turn.
Un the same way, we should keep in mind there is probably much more population and cities than what we see, they are just irrelevant to the story so are eluded from the narration. Just like in Harry Potter you don't get every single class they take having a chapter dedicated.
Plus, having few towns had to the "crumbling world" feeling, in my opinion.

 

[Deleted member]

Also, there is no point adding towns if they aren't relevant to the story at some point.
Keep in mind that in jrpgs, just like the battle system is a simplification, a representation of the fight, in the story the characters aren't waiting each other to finish their turn.
Un the same way, we should keep in mind there is probably much more population and cities than what we see, they are just irrelevant to the story so are eluded from the narration. Just like in Harry Potter you don't get every single class they take having a chapter dedicated.
Plus, having few towns had to the "crumbling world" feeling, in my opinion.

I'm not saying every town should be important to the story. For example, Yallam and Milksalla in Osenia are optional, but the game rewards you for going out of your way to see them. The problem is that you have one continent where civilization is alive and well, and everywhere else in the world, particularly in the Great Western Sea, is so void of life to a point where it's almost laughable (I mean, Master Hammet learned everything about being a successful merchant in this part of the world, you'd think there'd be an example of a merchant-driven society in that region). It also unintentionally speeds up the game, as after you reunite with Isaac's party, you just need to visit Magma Rock, which was a cakewalk compared to the other three elemental rocks, and then you can reach the endgame, with all the optional stuff (besides Anemos Sanctum) being on the eastern part of Weyard.

 

[Frosty Pops]

I fully expect a new F-Zero on Switch. However, that trademark doesn't necessarily mean anything. Renewing trademarks isn't that notable. Filing new trademarks is, or filing a trademark when its not up for renewal. (That's why the Golden Sun one may be interesting, because allegedly it just happened last year as well.)



Yeah honestly they should just do this. Also, if they do it, it should just straight up be Fox McCloud, not a humanized version like James was. F-Zero has a diverse cast already. They can simply describe Samus, Star Fox, and F-Zero as all being from different solar systems.



I don't think they're biasing against F-Zero or anything. I think they were just trying to focus on the more unique stages first. When they did work on less unique stages, they focused on bigger franchises and/or easier stages to develop.


Mute City is a -very- big stage to redesign assets for. And with it being similar to Port Town Aero Dive, I can understand why it didn't get priority. I still fully expect it by DLC.




I'm going to say "does not require explanation". What else would it need?

Even if it encompasses the interior as well, I doubt its going to change much and probably wouldn't need a huge explanation. Dracula's Castle having all those monsters is the reason why it needed a big explanation for it.

Yeah that is what I was meaning, replace his character with Fox completely.

It's a brand of food:

Honestly I'm not sure why people want a rep from Golden Sun. Playing as a bag of rice would be weird.

Isaac uses growth on rice plants. Feeling extra hungry? Isaac uses wild growth!

 

[Confirmation]

I'm not saying every town should be important to the story. For example, Yallam and Milksalla in Osenia are optional, but the game rewards you for going out of your way to see them. The problem is that you have one continent where civilization is alive and well, and everywhere else in the world, particularly in the Great Western Sea, is so void of life to a point where it's almost laughable (I mean, Master Hammet learned everything about being a successful merchant in this part of the world, you'd think there'd be an example of a merchant-driven society in that region). It also unintentionally speeds up the game, as after you reunite with Isaac's party, you just need to visit Magma Rock, which was a cakewalk compared to the other three elemental rocks, and then you can reach the endgame, with all the optional stuff (besides Anemos Sanctum) being on the eastern part of Weyard.

Isn't Yallam basically mandatory?

Good luck getting to Lemuria if you didn't know the kid's song..

 

[Frosty Pops]

Also, there is no point adding towns if they aren't relevant to the story at some point.
Keep in mind that in jrpgs, just like the battle system is a simplification, a representation of the fight, in the story the characters aren't waiting each other to finish their turn.
Un the same way, we should keep in mind there is probably much more population and cities than what we see, they are just irrelevant to the story so are eluded from the narration. Just like in Harry Potter you don't get every single class they take having a chapter dedicated.
Plus, having few towns had to the "crumbling world" feeling, in my opinion.

The only reason to have a full world is if they would be adding side quests or bounties etc... which would be awesome for GS imo. Give the game more depth and world building while adding playtime value. And avoid the empty world issue without having to think of a way to make every area super important to the story. Could be as simple as "hey meet this guy here" and boom another town full of stuff to do.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Well, I think it keeps us sane. If we only talked about Isaac all the time, we'd lose our collective mind over the little info we have. Imagine if we didn't have memes like 50 Cent to keep us distracted from the crushing wait for the next Direct?

This.

Yeah that is what I was meaning, replace his character with Fox completely.

I don't really get this. "Replace his character with Fox completely."

Throw away an established character just to put in an advertisement in his place? To throw away a piece of lore that is important to the universe of F-Zero? Just replace him with another Nintendo character without considering the fans of the character that would feel disappointment?

I don't get this. This seems almost disrespectful to the character designs, and the time and effort used to create the design of the vechile and the lore behind James. The amount of hours it took programming him into all the games after X, establishing him as apart of the cast, before taking him away just to advertise another series. (Which james already did before, but more subtly I might argue.)

yet we are okay with recognizing that the characters of all Smash games are different enough to be considered their own individual characters and have their individual fans. Imagine how much Ness fans would react if he was replaced with Lucas as originally planned, or how Toon Link had replaced Young Link in brawl. despite looking awfully similar, Young Link mains were kinda pissed as Toon Link just wasn't the same.

I've said this time and time again. Replacing characters solves nothing. Unlike stages, characters are an intergal part of the series. A part of a series that gives you tons of options.

I would be okay with Fox as an added character to the lore, but not at the expense of a cut or a replacement.

It's a reason why I love F-Zero so much, because it gives you so many options. And if I felt that they had thrown away an already established character and ignore its existence as they put full attention on the less subtle product placement, then I would feel like they have no respect for the main draw of the franchise. Options and characters.

 

[Frosty Pops]

This.



I don't really get this. "Replace his character with Fox completely."

Throw away an established character just to put in an advertisement in his place? To throw away a piece of lore that is important to the universe of F-Zero? Just replace him with another Nintendo character without considering the fans of the character that would feel disappointment?

I don't get this. This seems almost disrespectful to the character designs, and the time and effort used to create the design of the vechile and the lore behind James. The amount of hours it took programming him into all the games after X, establishing him as apart of the cast, before taking him away just to advertise another series. (Which james already did before, but more subtly I might argue.)

yet we are okay with recognizing that the characters of all Smash games are different enough to be considered their own individual characters and have their individual fans. Imagine how much Ness fans would react if he was replaced with Lucas as originally planned, or how Toon Link had replaced Young Link in brawl. despite looking awfully similar, Young Link mains were kinda pissed as Toon Link just wasn't the same.

I've said this time and time again. Replacing characters solves nothing. Unlike stages, characters are an intergal part of the series. A part of a series that gives you tons of options.

I would be okay with Fox as an added character to the lore, but not at the expense of a cut or a replacement.

It's a reason why I love F-Zero so much, because it gives you so many options. And if I felt that they had thrown away an already established character and ignore its existence as they put full attention on the less subtle product placement, then I would feel like they have no respect for the main draw of the franchise. Options and characters.

They wouldn't have to replace him, that was just a right off of the top of my head idea. I imagine they could make for some funny dialogue between them.

 

[Q-Long]

So new announcement in three days? Or is Ninty prankin us?

 

[hustler713]

So new announcement in three days? Or is Ninty prankin us?

So was there an Announcement at Big House?

 

[Guynamednelson]

So was there an Announcement at Big House?

If you consider "congratulations" one.

 

[Frosty Pops]

Sun is shinin in the sky
There ain't a cloud in sight

Speaking of the sun that Isaac seems like a pretty bright guy.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

https://mobile.twitter.com/NGameTheCube/status/1048701093620772864

I seriously doubt this guy has any info. Or even that this info is really the last of what we'll see.

If it is, I'll be incredibly disappointed with Nintendo.

The comments down below also have the same thoughts.

 

[hustler713]

https://mobile.twitter.com/NGameTheCube/status/1048701093620772864

I seriously doubt this guy has any info. Or even that this info is really the last of what we'll see.

If it is, I'll be incredibly disappointed with Nintendo.

The comments down below also have the same thoughts.

Ken and Inceneroar aren't that unecpected and hype to be final Newcomers. If that's truely all we got than K Rool should at least have been the Final Newcomer.
Ken was an obvious echoe and a new Pokemon Rep was pretty much a lock from the beginning

 

[TappyBat]

but that's so boring!

 

[?!?!?!]

https://mobile.twitter.com/NGameTheCube/status/1048701093620772864

I seriously doubt this guy has any info. Or even that this info is really the last of what we'll see.

If it is, I'll be incredibly disappointed with Nintendo.

The comments down below also have the same thoughts.

Nah this guy doesn't know anything, last week he tweeted saying that the final base roster newcomers are ken/incineroar/steve/shadow, and now its just the first two? ok

 

[MeatOfJustice]

https://mobile.twitter.com/NGameTheCube/status/1048701093620772864

I seriously doubt this guy has any info. Or even that this info is really the last of what we'll see.

If it is, I'll be incredibly disappointed with Nintendo.

The comments down below also have the same thoughts.

Has he ever been right on something?
Sakurai said that he and the team might've revealed some newcomers too soon, but just having 1 more original left is ridiculous. They need to keep hype going these last 2 months somehow.

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

Nah this guy doesn't know anything, last week he tweeted saying that the final base roster newcomers are ken/incineroar/steve/shadow, and now its just the first two? ok

Plus, it just seems like he’s just regurgitating what Verge has already told us, the exception being that Verge hasn’t stated if they’re the last 2 reveals.

 

[Delta64]

I do want to remind everybody that the last reveals for this game do not have to be incredibly hype worthy (sure they can but, they don't have to be). Remember Shulk was the last character revealed before the release of Smash 3DS and while I have nothing against Shulk, I think many people would agree that characters like Little Mac and Mega Man had far more hype at the time. In short, the final reveal isn't always legendary.

Edit: This does not mean I believe NGameTheCube, I am just making an open observation.

 

[TempestSurge]

Plus, it just seems like he’s just regurgitating what Verge has already told us, the exception being that Verge hasn’t stated if they’re the last 2 reveals.

Well he already has himself covered in that regard. In the case of the box theory being true, he says must mean square rep is DLC. And of course he'll never commit to saying the characters he knows is all there is in the case of someone like Isaac showing up to blow his credibility. It'll just be one of the characters he happened to not know about like K. Rool and the August echoes.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I do want to remind everybody that the last reveals for this game do not have to be incredibly hype worthy (sure they can but, they don't have to be). Remember Shulk was the last character revealed before the release of Smash 3DS and while I have nothing against Shulk, I think many people would agree that characters like Little Mac and Mega Man had far more hype at the time. In short, the final reveal isn't always legendary.

So we should give up?

No. This isn't over. This isn't the end. We aren't gonna be bested by some Tony the Tiger wannabe, and some lazy ass clone from the SNES era.

If I can't even have a god damn rep from F-Zero after 19 years, at least give me Isaac.

If I can't even have that, then I'm bumping smash down on my "wanting-to-buy" list.

Edit: But having two more characters left? Yeah, I believe that is the worst way to end a direct.

(Also, shulk was going to be as hype Isaac, but since he was revealed, ofc he wasn't that's surprising.)

 

[Sabrewulf238]

https://mobile.twitter.com/NGameTheCube/status/1048701093620772864

I seriously doubt this guy has any info. Or even that this info is really the last of what we'll see.

If it is, I'll be incredibly disappointed with Nintendo.

The comments down below also have the same thoughts.

This seems less like a potential leak and more like a "this is the worst case scenario everyone is already imagining" statement.

This guy basically just took what was already bubbling under in people consciousness about what could potentially happen....and said it.

 

[osby]

So we should give up?

No. This isn't over. This isn't the end. We aren't gonna be bested by some Tony the Tiger wannabe, and some lazy *** clone from the SNES era.

If I can't even have a god damn rep from F-Zero after 19 years, at least give me Isaac.

If I can't even have that, then I'm bumping smash down on my "wanting-to-buy" list.

But having two more characters left? Yeah, I believe that is the worst way to end a direct.

(Also, shulk was going to be as hype Isaac, but since he was revealed, ofc he wasn't that's surprising.)

I can't see how insulting other characters are going to help the situation but okay.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I can't see how insulting other characters are going to help the situation but okay.

Cause I'm an asshole.

 

[LuminoZero]

I just don't want a 10th Pokemon rep.

I don't care which Pokemon it is. The number is the issue.

 

[Xenigma]

It's kind of funny how Vergeben has made virtually all text character leaks impossible to take seriously now. Either you adhere to the formula of Incineroar/Ken plus arbitrary number of extras, in which case you look like a copycat who doesn't actually know anything, or you put out something totally different, which looks even less believable without some sort of concrete proof. Personally, it just makes it easy for me to ignore the random junk people are spouting while I wait for a Direct or, worst case scenario, release in two months.

 

[?!?!?!]

I can't see how insulting other characters are going to help the situation but okay.

Idk about you but I think being a "Tony the tiger wannabe" is more of a compliment

Like I would love to be compared to Tony THE LEGEND tbh

 

[Solbliminal]

So dudes. I got a chance to play Dragalia Lost. Can't help but to feel I'm hopelessly addicted. : I

 

[THE 6r]

Well he already has himself covered in that regard. In the case of the box theory being true, he says must mean square rep is DLC. And of course he'll never commit to saying the characters he knows is all there is in the case of someone like Isaac showing up to blow his credibility. It'll just be one of the characters he happened to not know about like K. Rool and the August echoes.

Is it bad that there is a part of me tb\hat really wants Isaac to be the next reveal just to see the chaos the internet would be thrown into?

So, to put it simply

 

[Delta64]

So we should give up?

No. This isn't over. This isn't the end. We aren't gonna be bested by some Tony the Tiger wannabe, and some lazy *** clone from the SNES era.

Chill, I never suggested that I think we will only get two more characters (I am a little pessimistic but, even my low ball prediction is two unique characters and one echo). Also I never suggested giving up. Even if the game comes out with Isaac nowhere in sight, I will not stop supporting him.
"Never give up. Trust your instincts." Peppy Hare 1997

 

[SonicLink125]

Until I see absolute 100% proof that Inceneroar and Ken (with Geno and Shadow as possible) are the last remaining newcomers, I don't buy it one bit. Even if it was "leaking" Isaac, I wouldn't believe it for a second. A lot of people are placing too much faith in Verge and a dumb box, which is sad. Sakurai has proven almost every theory and "fan rule" wrong every time. I can see him doing it again soon.

Also, I shouldn't bring this up as a guarantee, but what really scratches my head is that everyone (except Isaac fans) have completely shrugged off the possibility that the Rathalos tweet was indeed a hint this whole time. It's kind of sad.

Either way, until we get proof, don't buy into these "leaks" or as I like to call them "fan speculation lists". If I'm wrong, I don't care. I'm going to support Isaac till he gets in as a playable character. If Ridley and K. Rool fans can do it, so can we!

 

[Q-Long]

So we should give up?

We have no impact on base game characters at the given time, so there isn't any "giving up" cause we have no impact outside of DLC atm

Only thing we can do is sit here and chat lol

So dudes. I got a chance to play Dragalia Lost. Can't help but to feel I'm hopelessly addicted. : I

I haven't played it yet, but I hear its pretty fun. Only difficulty I have with mobile games is, its a bit tough on the fingers and neck

I did pre register for the game, so I should get around to playing it lol

 

[Oracle_Summon]

I'm not saying every town should be important to the story. For example, Yallam and Milksalla in Osenia are optional, but the game rewards you for going out of your way to see them. The problem is that you have one continent where civilization is alive and well, and everywhere else in the world, particularly in the Great Western Sea, is so void of life to a point where it's almost laughable (I mean, Master Hammet learned everything about being a successful merchant in this part of the world, you'd think there'd be an example of a merchant-driven society in that region). It also unintentionally speeds up the game, as after you reunite with Isaac's party, you just need to visit Magma Rock, which was a cakewalk compared to the other three elemental rocks, and then you can reach the endgame, with all the optional stuff (besides Anemos Sanctum) being on the eastern part of Weyard.

Golden Sun has such vast cities with differing cultures that would be wonderful to expand upon and explore. The Xenoblade team would be immense in helping bring side quests to the forefront. It would also help to expand and deepen the complexity of the cast. Let us explore their backgrounds, see them at their weakest, push them to their breaking points where their own ideals and morality clash in a scenario where only one can thrive.

In essence. Current day Final Fantasy has proven it no longer deserves the throne it sits upon as RPG King. Golden Sun is the young blood that only needs Nintendo to recognize its full potential to claim the throne and become the new king of Traditional RPGs.

And together may the Nintendo RPG houses claim victory over the rest:

Fire Emblem on the Throne of Turn Based Tactical RPGs

Pokemon on the Throne of Monster Capture RPGs

Xenoblade on the Throne of Real Time Action RPGs

Golden Sun on the Throne of Traditional RPGs

Edit: I want Nintendo to start treating their lesser known IPs/Franchises as seriously as they do Mario, Zelda and Pokemon. I want all of Nintendo's family to dominate.

 

[TempestSurge]

I do want to remind everybody that the last reveals for this game do not have to be incredibly hype worthy (sure they can but, they don't have to be). Remember Shulk was the last character revealed before the release of Smash 3DS and while I have nothing against Shulk, I think many people would agree that characters like Little Mac and Mega Man had far more hype at the time. In short, the final reveal isn't always legendary.

Edit: This does not mean I believe NGameTheCube, I am just making an open observation.

Of course different people find certain characters more hype. Yet Shulk was a new franchise at least. Incineroar would just be the expected Pokemon quota from the recent Gen of starters and Splatoon is still the only new Nintendo franchise. So it'd just be incredibly disappointing.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah, I feel like the scope of TLA compared with what the GBA could realistically handle kinda screwed with that a bit. Hopefully if they remake the games they can rectify this issue.

There are a lot of areas that need more love. There’s way too much empty space in TLA to the point where going off the beaten path will either reward you with...

A summon.

Or

**** all.

You remind me of that one fatal detail I missed... Yes I figure that TLA couldn't hold more data if they tried indeed. That's crazy cause the original game was meant to be included in it. And honestly, I wouldn't mind remakes where each "chapter" of progressing the story just contains one elemental light house. Might sound crazy now, but expand on the story especially the characters and deepen the lore a little and you can easily manage this.

Cause personally, I think there's easily far more to expand the story on. Always felt the Venus Lighthouse "saga" of the first Golden Sun felt a little short for example. And now that there's so much room to play with the story a lot, we can deepen the roles of excistant characters a lot. We can expand more on Mia's story for example, show a deeper bond of the friendship of Isaac and Garet, Ivan and his family relations.. lot's of room there.

 

[Yoshi444]

**** National Elections.
#IsaacForSmash

 

[MatthewVenusAdept]

You remind me of that one fatal detail I missed... Yes I figure that TLA couldn't hold more data if they tried indeed. That's crazy cause the original game was meant to be included in it. And honestly, I wouldn't mind remakes where each "chapter" of progressing the story just contains one elemental light house. Might sound crazy now, but expand on the story especially the characters and deepen the lore a little and you can easily manage this.

Cause personally, I think there's easily far more to expand the story on. Always felt the Venus Lighthouse "saga" of the first Golden Sun felt a little short for example. And now that there's so much room to play with the story a lot, we can deepen the roles of excistant characters a lot. We can expand more on Mia's story for example, show a deeper bond of the friendship of Isaac and Garet, Ivan and his family relations.. lot's of room there.

Like party conversations from the tales games and more personal sidequests? I would totally be down for that!

 

[Solbliminal]

I haven't played it yet, but I hear its pretty fun. Only difficulty I have with mobile games is, its a bit tough on the fingers and neck

I did pre register for the game, so I should get around to playing it lol

Maybe I'm simplistic, but I did enjoy the story. The characters were pretty interesting to me, the mechanics are pretty nice, and I'm genuinely invested. It feels a lot more forgiving than FE Heroes with its summons.

That being said, if you ever need any advice for the game I'm here.

 

[Confirmation]

I do want to remind everybody that the last reveals for this game do not have to be incredibly hype worthy (sure they can but, they don't have to be). Remember Shulk was the last character revealed before the release of Smash 3DS and while I have nothing against Shulk, I think many people would agree that characters like Little Mac and Mega Man had far more hype at the time. In short, the final reveal isn't always legendary.

Edit: This does not mean I believe NGameTheCube, I am just making an open observation.

You have to remember that 4 is a different beast than Ultimate though. 4 didn't state they were revealing everything before release.

It puts a lot more pressure on them to end on a high note