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Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

Organization XIII

Smash Champion
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Just a quick question for everyone.

What actually makes you want Isaac as a playable character so badly? I mean like I know you like Golden Sun and would like another game but lets play imagination and say we already got a Golden Sun game - would you still vote for him? I personally would.
Absolutely I'd still want him if Golden Sun got more games. Isaac is one of my favorites from GS and his abilities are so cool. I don't want to choose between more GS or Isaac in Smash I want both.
 

Dionaea_floridensis

Smash Journeyman
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Messages
484
Isaac's poll placement is far too inconsistent. We have some polls putting him at #1 or #2, and others where he's not even present. It seems to me his demand has been grossly exaggerated
 

TempestSurge

Smash Ace
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Oct 20, 2014
Messages
832
That's not being realistic, that's being pessimistic.

You never know who is in until the final roster is confirmed and we all want Isaac of course but patience is what is needed. Obviously take everything with a grain of salt and if Isaac is surely in, you will be a lot happier =O!
There could be one character left and I'll still be chanting Isaac's name as the smash logo shows up on screen. It's as they say in fandom, 'I'm going down with this ship.'
 

jweb23

Smash Journeyman
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Messages
416
So I'm on my day off and decide to read through a bit of the General Discussions thread and after thinking for a while about everything I read, I must say the Smash community baffles me! Mainly because of so many people taking Vergeben's words as gospel. Well...lets rewind to 4-5 years ago when Smash 4's hype was at an all-time high!

During the hype period before release we happened to have a fairly reliable leaker as well, Gematsu. So lets take a look at everything that leaker stated:

Reality (emojis) vs Gematsu Leak (text)

:ultvillager: Animal Crossing Guy
:ultwiifittrainer: Wii Fit Trainer
:ultmegaman: Megaman
:ultlittlemac: Little Mac
:4miibrawl::4miigun::4miisword: Miis
:ultpacman: Pacman
:ultpalutena: Palutena
:ultshulk: Shulk
Chrom
Chorus Kids
:ultgreninja: Pokemon From X and Y
:ultbowserjr:
:ultduckhunt:
:ultrobin
:ultrosalina:
:ultdarkpit:
:ultlucina:

As you can clearly see, the near prophetic Gematsu leak was either old information or their sources weren't as reliable as they thought. Now let's compare Vergeben's current leaks to reality as well.

Reality (emojis) vs Vergeben (text)

:ultinkling: If I remember correctly Vergeben's leaks started after Ultimate's announcement so Inkling was already shown.
:ultridley: Ridley
:ulticeclimbers: Ice Climbers
:ultsimon: Simon Belmont
:ultsnake: Snake
:ultisabelle: Isabelle
Ken
:ultkrool:
:ultdaisy:
:ultchrom:
:ultdarksamus:
:ultrichter:

As of right now it appears we have the same exact situation as Smash 4. While Vergeben appears to be reliable, his info may be old or his sources are not as good as Vergeben thinks they are. Thanks to loz18 we know for a fact that Vergeben's sources are spotty because he didn't know anything about King K Rool. I believe it is VERY possible that one of Vergeben's character leaks is not gonna happen and we end up getting a few more surprises than we think.
 
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Dionaea_floridensis

Smash Journeyman
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Messages
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New characters like Springman and Rex seriously drive Isaac's chances for DLC down. We'd need a well organized, sustained, and strict campaign to beat them. I think we'd need Waluigi levels of attention to make it, honestly.
Unless Camelot decides to revive GS like Monolith might do with Baten Kaitos, I don't think Isaac will ever appear in Smash. Unless we get like, 12 DLC characters, I just can't imagine Isaac being picked over new characters/IPs. Only an explosion of popularity would remedy this, but his generic design holds him back.
Isaac will always be my most wanted but I have pretty much no hope for him
 

TeenGirlSquad

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Well he did well on the ballot (I’m assuming) and there will probably be more DLC than last time, since the Switch is going to be supported for longer and so they probably won’t start the development cycle for the next game for quite a long time. And Switch games just seem to have a lot more DLC in general. So I think he still has a chance, even if it’s small.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I'm still sure Isaac will be in this game, but again, it seems like our attitude shifts ever time we get a piece of news.

Yesterday, Verge's Music Theory was shot down, so we're happy.

Today, Sakurai admits they revealed too many fighters already has depressed people.
 

TappyBat

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Aug 30, 2018
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Well he did well on the ballot (I’m assuming) and there will probably be more DLC than last time, since the Switch is going to be supported for longer and so they probably won’t start the development cycle for the next game for quite a long time. And Switch games just seem to have a lot more DLC in general. So I think he still has a chance, even if it’s small.
no mii costume though
 

StormC

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Isaac's poll placement is far too inconsistent. We have some polls putting him at #1 or #2, and others where he's not even present. It seems to me his demand has been grossly exaggerated
In polls that actually matter (during the ballot period), I basically never saw a poll where Isaac wasn't top 10.
 
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Dionaea_floridensis

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In polls that actually matter (during the ballot period), I basically never saw a poll where Isaac wasn't top 10.
The only way I see Isaac getting in is if that 40K vote poll from 2015 is extremely accurate. It placed him at #2 after K. Rool. If Isaac really is after K Rool in popularity then I'd be shocked if he didn't get in. But I got a feeling he just isn't that popular. When DLC does come around, I'll do whatever I can do ensure he's picked, but I just can't see him beating new characters. Relevance is an extremely useful thing to have on your side
 

StormC

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Relevance is an extremely useful thing to have on your side
:ultkrool:

Knowing that King K. Rool received, and I quote from Sakurai himself, "a ton of votes," I really can't imagine a scenario where Isaac was too far behind. That said, I'm not sure if I expect Isaac to show up, but we're pretty much all shooting in the dark at this point, especially with Sakurai's recent Famitsu column.
 
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EricTheGamerman

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I'm still sure Isaac will be in this game, but again, it seems like our attitude shifts ever time we get a piece of news.

Yesterday, Verge's Music Theory was shot down, so we're happy.

Today, Sakurai admits they revealed too many fighters already has depressed people.
I feel like Sakurai is a little more the literal word of God in these situations. That's not speculation, that's the man himself telling you that things will slow down and we might not see as many characters left overall. I think it's an appropriately depressing sentiment. Mostly because you can't argue a way around it when Sakurai says something. And sure, we may have more overall than we expected with his E3 comments, but there does come a limit to things, and we're fast approaching the time for that limit to be at the forefront of speculation.

His comments don't directly affect Isaac at least, but it does put him in the place of facing a lot of opposition for limited spots. Possibly one or two unique newcomers are left, and around 10 major names are standing with a certain "claim" to those spots. It's actually time for "Kutthroat (Glad I can still use that)" speculation if all the evidence is to be believed. Though add in the additional fears that Verge is absolute, or box theory as a whole, and things get even more dicey. Incineroar isn't exactly one of those 10 beloved names, he's just a part of speculation now, same as Steve... Makes speculation a whole lot less fun when half the room is arguing that these two are that we have left, and the other half is bickering over who deserves the other spot. Not to mention anything out of the left field will throw the balance off even more.
 

Pwnapplez

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Just hope out of all of this we don't have an AT of Isaac

DLC is his best shot even if you all disagree. Base would be great but, DLC would give him more of a do or die situation. Isaac fans would go all out for the last time to try and get him in
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I wonder why they did that

No offense to isabelle, but Ridley, K Rool, and the Belmonts were hardcore choices. Wonder why he didnt spread those out more
1. With the Smash 4 stuff, they had 14 months between the E3 reveal and release with around a year of information just being "It'll be on 3DS AND Wii U!", while with Ultimate, they have had in less than 5 months between E3 announcement and release, with the only information beforehand for 3 months was "Inklings are in!".
2. Because of this squashed window between formal announcement and the game's release, he can't release the full information in small partitions like it was during the last go-around.
3. This, in turn, resulted in people assuming that when we get new character information, it'll be a massive dump of info, like it was especially in the August Direct, when we got five newcomers, game modes, Assist Trophies, and other details. Since this is the reality, whenever somebody like Isabelle is revealed, who is someone that was guaranteed but didn't push the meter, people act negatively

As much as I don't like to say it, it seems like Isaac's reveal may be more on Isabelle's reaction level than what we got for Ridley & King K. Rool in spite of being a "hardcore choice", but for different reasons. Isabelle was certain because she became the mascot of Animal Crossing, while Isaac seems like a shoe-in based upon the process of elimination, while Ridley & K. Rool were considered unlikely given the existing barriers people had accepted kept them out.

Does that make any sense?
 

XenoWarriorX

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Messages
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Isaac's poll placement is far too inconsistent. We have some polls putting him at #1 or #2, and others where he's not even present. It seems to me his demand has been grossly exaggerated
What's about that "staying positive" stuff that you were speaking so highly of?
 

jweb23

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Messages
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Honestly I’m literally in the wait and see phase! As far as Incineroar and Steve Go, I’ll believe it when I see it. From the start I never believed we would get a new Pokémon in the base roster and I’m a huge Pokémon fan but still feel that way. The only reason I wouldn’t be shocked if Incineroar got in is due to Masuda (lead developer for Pokémon) openly states that Incineroar is his favorite. Steve is still a strange choice to me because I believe Minecraft is far better represented with a stage or better yet a crazy Steve assist trophy that transforms the stage you’re fighting on into a Minecraft version of it.

Like I said, wait and see. We are a little more than two months out so we don’t have long to wait. Hopefully our Golden Boy is gonna shock us all!
 

N3ON

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I'm still sure Isaac will be in this game, but again, it seems like our attitude shifts ever time we get a piece of news.

Yesterday, Verge's Music Theory was shot down, so we're happy.

Today, Sakurai admits they revealed too many fighters already has depressed people.
What I’ve been saying. Y’all are far too capricious for your own good. Just go with the flow, be open to the possibility of all outcomes.
 

NoOtherPersona

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We can't give up or lose hope till December 7th till then stay strong and have hope for isaac
 

Isaac: Venus Adept

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I just made it 500 :)
Thanks man. We are incredibly happy we reached this milestone, we have something big planned but we still are in the process of making the right decisions at the moment.
And anyway guys just keep at it, we're used to Isaac getting snubbed time and time again. It happens with most big fan demands until they finally get in. We just need to keep marching forward with determination until we get our day in the sun
 

StormC

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I wonder why they did that

No offense to isabelle, but Ridley, K Rool, and the Belmonts were hardcore choices. Wonder why he didnt spread those out more
It's typical for Smash to reveal their best stuff first. They came out the gate at E3 2013 with :4megaman:, after all.

Besides, I pretty much expected a more lowkey reveal after 8.8. There was basically no way to follow up Simon Belmont and King K. Rool.
 

Organization XIII

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It's typical for Smash to reveal their best stuff first. They came out the gate at E3 2013 with :4megaman:, after all.

Besides, I pretty much expected a more lowkey reveal after 8.8. There was basically no way to follow up Simon Belmont and King K. Rool.
They could have kept the hype going instead of completely derailing it. That would have been a very solid follow up.
 

StormC

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They could have kept the hype going instead of completely derailing it. That would have been a very solid follow up.
People outside of SmashBoards are pretty hype about Isabelle. She was everywhere on Tumblr and Twitter following her announcement. She doesn’t appeal to the hardcore Smash fans as much, but it would be untrue to say she “derailed it” just because we (one Smash forum) are not as excited about her.
 

Organization XIII

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People outside of SmashBoards are pretty hype about Isabelle. She was everywhere on Tumblr and Twitter following her announcement. She doesn’t appeal to the hardcore Smash fans as much, but it would be untrue to say she “derailed it” just because we (one Smash forum) are not as excited about her.
It's not her it was her terrible trailer.
 

StormC

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It's not her it was her terrible trailer.
I agree the trailer was a non-starter, though the latest Famitsu article seems to imply Sakurai had more planned that didn’t happen because of the earthquake...? Not sure what he was getting at there.
 

LuminoZero

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What I’ve been saying. Y’all are far too capricious for your own good. Just go with the flow, be open to the possibility of all outcomes.
Or just believe he's in despite what everybody says.

If your position is so shaky that it changes every time the wind shifts direction, you should probably stop paying so close attention to Smash news. It's not good for your health.
 

Metocles

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The only way I see Isaac getting in is if that 40K vote poll from 2015 is extremely accurate. It placed him at #2 after K. Rool. If Isaac really is after K Rool in popularity then I'd be shocked if he didn't get in. But I got a feeling he just isn't that popular. When DLC does come around, I'll do whatever I can do ensure he's picked, but I just can't see him beating new characters. Relevance is an extremely useful thing to have on your side
If Isaac isn't that popular, then who is? Do I need to remind you that you're in the number one thread on Smashboards going on 515 pages and 20,500+ posts and we're still two months off from the game releasing? Popularity is the least of the concerns you should have, and there are concerns. Does Sakurai pass on him again? It's possible. Was he just not a realizable character or too much effort needed to go into him? I don't buy it but it's possible. Popularity?

Unlike tons of other characters, Golden Sun saw worldwide releases which is already a leg and a half over many characters. If you go back to Brawl or Sm4sh, you have an argument because there was just too much competition happening which Isaac always just missed the cut for. Isaac has historically always been in a secondary or tertiary grouping for character popularity. This time it's silly to suggest that he's not in the primary grouping. There's nobody that outclasses it this time around. This narrative just doesn't play itself out in data we see.

Your impressions may come from not having tons of vocal support out there. Not being in many high profile leaks. Not propped up by major youtubers and social media personalities. That's not evidence that support isn't heavy even if it's a perceived notion. If Isaac isn't in this game it's definitely not because he wasn't popular.
 

Skyblade12

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I agree the trailer was a non-starter, though the latest Famitsu article seems to imply Sakurai had more planned that didn’t happen because of the earthquake...? Not sure what he was getting at there.
Yeah, I’ve been tryin to find SourceGaming’s translation of that section. But their site seems to be down. The original translation made it seem as though Sakurai had to change what was shown... But Sakurai was only involved with the Smash stuff. Why would Isabelle need to change ‘cause of the earthquake?
 

Nazyrus

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Stop getting your hopes down for he dumbest reasons holy hell guys… I literally am checking other support threads i also follow and none of them are like this. Please do yourselves a favor and stay hyped, don't base your hype over theories or whatever, but over the fact that the last newcomer hasn't been revealed yet, not even close yet. STAY HYPED, STAY SUPPORTIVE. Damn it lol :EvilBub:
 
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Q-Long

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I agree the trailer was a non-starter, though the latest Famitsu article seems to imply Sakurai had more planned that didn’t happen because of the earthquake...? Not sure what he was getting at there.
He could mean a different character's trailer

Not every trailer is complex. Duck Hunt's for example. Or Clouds. Its just gameplay.
 

XenoWarriorX

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Holy hell. It's like these past couple of months have been. Thrown away like it was nothing.

But this....all it does is create tension. None have deconfirmed Isaac yet. But now that we're in competition with other picks, our chances feel less likely, don't they? Are we afraid to get our hopes up after what had happened to Golden Sun in Smash 4? Its okay to have those fears, but I'd still try to support Isaac as much as i can.

All these characters in the support thread, always filled to the brim with popular characters and yet we feel almost cluttered with How close we are to release. Perhaps some of us feel those characters are more important from how much they get promoted by Youtubers on the web. Don't give up yet.

I feel like Sakurai would do a smash direct like the "50-Fact Extravaganza!" But with loads of newcomers sprinkled in. Then again, that does sound pretty unbelievable.

Again, if Isaac is not in Smash U's basegame, the best I can do is let Nintendo know my grievances of passing up YET another chance of GS representation for some unexplained reason. I'll try to be respectful on the offchance that it happens, but i don't expect myself to be positive about Nintendo for a long while If that happens.

Anyways, that's my long rant. Gonna go play some project M on Subspace. Probably will be better tomorrow.

Not every trailer is complex. Duck Hunt's for example. Or Clouds. Its just gameplay.
No. You are correct. Not every trailer in complex. The issue is that Duck HUnt Duo's pacing was very much superior in how it was animated and directed.

The way that it was directed for Isabelle was like if the director said "Hey, let's drop the act of this looking like an Animal Crossing reveal, and make it obvious that it's a smash trailer. Then we make the viewer watch as Isabelle slowly gets the mail and finds out what we already know.


That trailer was agrivating because of how I was saying through the second half of it "Get on with it already!"
 
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SonicLink125

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Isaac fans are funny to me. I could be wrong, but we are the most pessimistic yet hopeful (and pretty chill, most of the time) support group I've ever seen. And after 10+ years, look how far we've come now. We're still going strong regardless if/of the odds against us.
IF and IF, the Rathalos Tweet was not a reference to Golden Sun and Isaac doesn't get in, so what? Look at what it has done for us. It's got people talking about Golden Sun again after 8 years and brought out new fans/supporters AND it has brought old ones out of the shadows. So, instead of sulking and the like, let's actually use this to our advantage and finally push out to everyone WHY Isaac needs to be in Smash and WHY Golden Sun is amazing and how it needs to come back. This is a grand opportunity that has been given to use. Why not use it? The Ridley and K. Rool fans have pushed extremely hard to get their characters in and they finally succeeded. It is now our turn to "LET OUT A HOWL" my fellow Adepts! It's always darkest before the dawn, so don't give up!
 

ghastmine

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I had a dream where the direct was announced for October 11th. Honestly think we're gonna get a direct this October if not a simple reveal
 

Strider_Bond00J

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Voted for Isaac and Phoenix Wright.

Just a quick question for everyone.

What actually makes you want Isaac as a playable character so badly? I mean like I know you like Golden Sun and would like another game but lets play imagination and say we already got a Golden Sun game - would you still vote for him? I personally would.

I mean like, there are a handful of characters out there that are as deserving as him, but I don't know what personally makes me want him as a playable so bad. It's probably the uniqueness and the fact that I want something that is "out of reach" in many peoples eyes, I want to see the excitement of all the fans that supported him and the haters to keep to eat their words. Man that vision would be so delightful. :p
Part of the reason I'm supporting Isaac is because I want another great character to get his chance to properly shine in Smash. Brawl was the game that introduced me to the Golden Sun series through his Assist Trophy, so back when Little Mac made the jump to playable last game, Isaac was the character I thought was worthy of promotion to playable status, thanks to his ability to manipulate the earth so he's not just your ordinary swordsman.
 
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