Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[pholtos]

Clearly the best echo is Kraden. He'd be so broken, he'd bore them all to death and win every game.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Clearly the best echo is Kraden. He'd be so broken, he'd bore them all to death and win every game.

Hold it! The best exposition character is Deckard Kain. Kraden may be annoying, but nobody Stays a while and listens to Deckard.

 

[Rethuic]

I hope you're ready for Isaac as a playable character with Garet as an Echo

The problem with Garet being an Echo is that he's too different than Isaac. If Garet were also an venus adept, ok. That would make sense. But Garet is Mars, so he wouldn't have the same moves.

 

[Knight-Adept]

Kraden as Smash Ultimate Final Boss, folks. Think of the possibilities!

 

[LuminoZero]

Wouldn't S+M be better as a "story mode" boss?

Especially if Venus Lighthouse is in.

Wow, I think I'm too much shipping trash. I totally read S + M as Sveta and Matthew and was very confused as to why they would be bosses.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Kraden as Smash Ultimate Final Boss, folks. Think of the possibilities!

Kraden would fit better as a Mr. Resetti Assist Trophy.

 

[Rethuic]

Wow, I think I'm too much shipping trash. I totally read S + M as Sveta and Matthew and was very confused as to why they would be bosses.

Heh, I'm pretty sure that's the main GSDD ship. There's not too much else.

 

[Confirmation]

The problem with Garet being an Echo is that he's too different than Isaac. If Garet were also an venus adept, ok. That would make sense. But Garet is Mars, so he wouldn't have the same moves.

Honestly though it depends on what moves are thrown around. There's enough equippable psynergy for both to share, he gets Growth and Spire set as a Brute iirc, and as an echo could have a few movepool changes no problem.

If Golden Sun has taught me anything, it's that base psynergy hardly matter

 

[Rethuic]

Honestly though it depends on what moves are thrown around. There's enough equippable psynergy for both to share, he gets Growth and Spire set as a Brute iirc, and as an echo could have a few movepool changes no problem.

If Golden Sun has taught me anything, it's that base psynergy hardly matter

That's true, but given that one of Isaac's moves would probably be quake, which is only for Venus adepts, Garet isn't quite the best choice for an echo. Sorry, but Felix fits more.

 

[Mr Gentleman]

Hey guys random thought I just had. granted this has probably already been talked about a lot over here so I might just be repeating things others have already said.

But why did Nintendo renew their trademark for Golden Sun? like the obvious reason would be "because they plan to make Golden Sun games in the future"
and that would be great. but with Nintendo having franchises like Xenoblade doing so hot. along with having Square Enix. the biggest name in JRPGs having a full team to make them exclusives. I wouldn't think Nintendo would see a need for holding onto another JRPG franchise that they have shelfed for awhile now. they let Custom Robo go (which still makes me sad...) so what reason would they hold onto Golden Sun?

Maybe it actually could be a sign that Isaac is gonna be in ultimate?

granted I realize I could be way off base with this theory. Custom Robo probably isn't the best comparison because I'm pretty sure Golden Sun has had much more success. and it's also possible that since they are doing so well with JRPGs that Nintendo might think this could be prime time to make more of them!


This was just me throwing out food for thought. I hope we can get both Isaac for smash and a new Golden Sun game! keep holding strong everyone! your voices can be heard! also holy cow almost 500 pages?! man wish Geno was able to hold those numbers!

 

[Rethuic]

Hey guys random thought I just had. granted this has probably already been talked about a lot over here so I might just be repeating things others have already said.

But why did Nintendo renew their trademark for Golden Sun? like the obvious reason would be "because they plan to make Golden Sun games in the future"
and that would be great. but with Nintendo having franchises like Xenoblade doing so hot. along with having Square Enix. the biggest name in JRPGs having a full team to make them exclusives. I wouldn't think Nintendo would see a need for holding onto another JRPG franchise that they have shelfed for awhile now. they let Custom Robo go (which still makes me sad...) so what reason would they hold onto Golden Sun?

Maybe it actually could be a sign that Isaac is gonna be in ultimate?

granted I realize I could be way off base with this theory. Custom Robo probably isn't the best comparison because I'm pretty sure Golden Sun has had much more success. and it's also possible that since they are doing so well with JRPGs that Nintendo might think this could be prime time to make more of them!


This was just me throwing out food for thought. I hope we can get both Isaac for smash and a new Golden Sun game! keep holding strong everyone! your voices can be heard! also holy cow almost 500 pages?! man wish Geno was able to hold those numbers!

Thanks Gentleman! Nice to hear support from our bros in the Geno thread. It's honestly like we are brothers at this point. I have had that idea too. With this and the Rathalos tweet along with no Isaac AT, it really does look like Isaac will be in. I wish you luck in getting Geno.

 

[TappyBat]

Hey guys random thought I just had. granted this has probably already been talked about a lot over here so I might just be repeating things others have already said.

But why did Nintendo renew their trademark for Golden Sun? like the obvious reason would be "because they plan to make Golden Sun games in the future"
and that would be great. but with Nintendo having franchises like Xenoblade doing so hot. along with having Square Enix. the biggest name in JRPGs having a full team to make them exclusives. I wouldn't think Nintendo would see a need for holding onto another JRPG franchise that they have shelfed for awhile now. they let Custom Robo go (which still makes me sad...) so what reason would they hold onto Golden Sun?

Maybe it actually could be a sign that Isaac is gonna be in ultimate?

granted I realize I could be way off base with this theory. Custom Robo probably isn't the best comparison because I'm pretty sure Golden Sun has had much more success. and it's also possible that since they are doing so well with JRPGs that Nintendo might think this could be prime time to make more of them!


This was just me throwing out food for thought. I hope we can get both Isaac for smash and a new Golden Sun game! keep holding strong everyone! your voices can be heard! also holy cow almost 500 pages?! man wish Geno was able to hold those numbers!

the trademark got renewed later then the fighter planning saks was going through in 2015 though.

 

[Nazyrus]

I'm just saying that Verge seems to be less believable, to me at least. The thing about Steve is just... off.

More like… Oof!

 

[Confirmation]

the trademark got renewed later then the fighter planning saks was going through in 2015 though.

The new one?

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Hey guys random thought I just had. granted this has probably already been talked about a lot over here so I might just be repeating things others have already said.

But why did Nintendo renew their trademark for Golden Sun? like the obvious reason would be "because they plan to make Golden Sun games in the future"
and that would be great. but with Nintendo having franchises like Xenoblade doing so hot. along with having Square Enix. the biggest name in JRPGs having a full team to make them exclusives. I wouldn't think Nintendo would see a need for holding onto another JRPG franchise that they have shelfed for awhile now. they let Custom Robo go (which still makes me sad...) so what reason would they hold onto Golden Sun?

Maybe it actually could be a sign that Isaac is gonna be in ultimate?

granted I realize I could be way off base with this theory. Custom Robo probably isn't the best comparison because I'm pretty sure Golden Sun has had much more success. and it's also possible that since they are doing so well with JRPGs that Nintendo might think this could be prime time to make more of them!


This was just me throwing out food for thought. I hope we can get both Isaac for smash and a new Golden Sun game! keep holding strong everyone! your voices can be heard! also holy cow almost 500 pages?! man wish Geno was able to hold those numbers!

Except Xenoblade is more of a JRPG and Golden Sun is the traditional RPG. It would be beneficial to have more successful RPGs types that can appeal to a wide range of audiences.

 

[Knight-Adept]

The trademark being renewed implies that something Golden Sun is involved in Smash. However, that *could* still be Isaac as an AT, or some such thing. Evidence still points to him being included, though.

 

[LuminoZero]

The trademark being renewed implies that something Golden Sun is involved in Smash. However, that *could* still be Isaac as an AT, or some such thing. Evidence still points to him being included, though.

If he was an AT they'd have revealed him early on with Waluigi, Ashley and Shovel Knight. The only reason to delay him is if he is playable.

 

[Knight-Adept]

Exactly my point.

 

[VexTheHex]

If he was an AT they'd have revealed him early on with Waluigi, Ashley and Shovel Knight. The only reason to delay him is if he is playable.

Careful, this logic helped make people think Ashley was a lock before she wasn't even named but shown off as an AT. "Obviously she would of been shown off like Waluigi right off the bat!" And then the next direct happened...

Saki, Kat & Ana, Shadow, Sable Prince, Barbara Bat, and a few others are still missing as well.

 

[LuminoZero]

Careful, this logic helped make people think Ashley was a lock before she wasn't even named but shown off as an AT. "Obviously she would of been shown off like Waluigi right off the bat!" And then the next direct happened...

Saki, Kat & Ana, Shadow, Sable Prince, Barbara Bat, and a few others are still missing as well.

His absence from AT, placement in the ballot and the Rathalos hint are all the proof I need. He's playable, mark my words.

 

[QcSlayer]

GUYS, I'M THE GREATEST LEAKER EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just wanna prove how easy it is to edit a date, lapailledor as no credibility.

 

[Mr Gentleman]

the trademark got renewed later then the fighter planning saks was going through in 2015 though.

I'm not that familiar with how trademarks laws work. but don't you just renew it at a time before it expires? kinda like a license? I don't think they would have to renew Golden Sun at the same moment they planned Isaac for smash. but I'm not a Lawyer so I really wouldn't know.

Except Xenoblade is more of a JRPG and Golden Sun is the traditional RPG. It would be beneficial to have more successful RPGs types that can appeal to a wide range of audiences.

Well yes and I'm sure Golden Sun has a lot that makes it special compared to other RPGs. it's more just I could see Nintendo from a Business prospective seeing it in a more simple yet flawed way. like how they didn't think there needed to be 2 Mario RPG franchises. granted that is also a different case.
just throwing out stray thoughts out.


Also I don't see the Isaac AT making a comeback. mainly because I'd think the only returning AT will be ones they can port from smash 4. don't think we've seen any AT that have been from brawl but not smash 4 yet have we? I think at this point we only a few more returning smash 4 ones and brand new ones possibly relating to other characters. we've seen 40 and they said there are over 50

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

I'm not that familiar with how trademarks laws work. but don't you just renew it at a time before it expires? kinda like a license? I don't think they would have to renew Golden Sun at the same moment they planned Isaac for smash. but I'm not a Lawyer so I really wouldn't know.

Trademarks in Japan last for 10 years, and yet, they've renewed the trademark twice since last year for some reason; once in 2017 and once this August.

 

[Confirmation]

I'm not that familiar with how trademarks laws work. but don't you just renew it at a time before it expires? kinda like a license? I don't think they would have to renew Golden Sun at the same moment they planned Isaac for smash. but I'm not a Lawyer so I really wouldn't know.

From what I know, this is indeed how it works. Waiting until near the end of the 10yr period maximizes the amount of time you get for the effort you put into getting the trademark.

 

[pholtos]

Also I don't see the Isaac AT making a comeback. mainly because I'd think the only returning AT will be ones they can port from smash 4. don't think we've seen any AT that have been from brawl but not smash 4 yet have we? I think at this point we only a few more returning smash 4 ones and brand new ones possibly relating to other characters. we've seen 40 and they said there are over 50

Gray Fox.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Trademarks in Japan last for 10 years, and yet, they've renewed the trademark twice since last year for some reason; once in 2017 and once this August.

Could be doing something with the license itself. Usually, and correct me if I am wrong, this means that the Trademark License must be adapted for any new entries in the franchise.
Edit: To clarify, these "entries in the franchise" can relate to any likeness of Golden Sun being used in a new game.

 

[Mr Gentleman]

Gray Fox.

oh right! although I could see that being a unique case since they brought snake back they wanted to bring back his specific AT as well.

 

[N3ON]

Gray Fox.

Not the best example, his presence is basically tied to Snake.

 

[pholtos]

oh right! although I could see that being a unique case since they brought snake back they wanted to bring back his specific AT as well.

Not the best example, his presence is basically tied to Snake.

Yeah, not the best example, but is essentially the only brawl assist to have returned iirc.

 

[Skyblade12]

Could be doing something with the license itself. Usually, and correct me if I am wrong, this means that the Trademark License must be adapted for any new entries in the franchise.
Edit: To clarify, these "entries in the franchise" can relate to any likeness of Golden Sun being used in a new game.

By my understanding, Trademarks are a bit more broad than that. They aren’t just for one game or entry. If they were, they’d be nearly useless, since the purpose is to protect your IP from being used by others.

But Trademarks can hold for particular forms of media. So you may need to update a Trademark if you were moving from Disk to Digital, or adding Cartridge distribution to a Trademark for Digital, etcetera. The Trademark that expired for Custom Robo was specifically for Optical games media, but to my knowledge, there was no other Trademark for the franchise.

When the Fine Bros. tried to Trademark “React”, it was for video media, possibly digitally distributed video, don’t entirely remember. But it doesn’t cover React being used in games or other artwork. It was still stupid and overly broad, but there are limits to it.

The interesting thing is, there have not been multiple Golden Sun Trademarks (and still aren’t, to my knowledge), and there has been no format shift for Golden Sun since the E-Shop release (when they probably would have added Digital to Cartridge based forms of gaming media, if it was not already included). So why update within a year, unless they had a specific plan for the IP?

A full analysis of the two Trademark submissions could look for changes made, but I’m too lazy for that.

 

[JaidynReiman]

They probably know he knows stuff. But they're not going to blow the whistle on him if he isn't going to disclose it himself. Now whether he tells them what he knows is a different story. You'd think he would, since he told other insiders on resetera, but right now it's just a big question mark. Fwiw, the GX guys know more than they let on too, though I've no idea to what extent.

However while that all is speculation, it doesn't take away from the fact that he hears things. Though, if we were just judging him based on his tenure with GX, I'd agree this was much ado about nothing. It's super easy to convince people of something once it's already happened. However when you factor in his pre-GX habits, the picture comes together a bit clearer.

That said, I agree not to put stock into many of his claims, most are guesses. Perhaps if it repeats them over and over it'd be worthwhile to take note, but still, we'll only ever know in hindsight, and I guess then we still won't know 100%.

Jon knew about Ridley. Several times he said he said K. Rool wasn't happening because he was replaced in DK by Nintendo. Even right before the August Direct he said "I don't think K. Rool will be revealed in this Direct."


He definitely gets stuff wrong quite a bit. He does have insider information, though. He just doesn't make clear what is insider info and what isn't making him completely unreliable unfortunately. Exactly as you described.


But for anyone else reading this, remember what he said about K. Rool. Him getting stuff wrong happens more often than he gets off-the-wall "guesses" right.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

By my understanding, Trademarks are a bit more broad than that. They aren’t just for one game or entry. If they were, they’d be nearly useless, since the purpose is to protect your IP from being used by others.

But Trademarks can hold for particular forms of media. So you may need to update a Trademark if you were moving from Disk to Digital, or adding Cartridge distribution to a Trademark for Digital, etcetera. The Trademark that expired for Custom Robo was specifically for Optical games media, but to my knowledge, there was no other Trademark for the franchise.

When the Fine Bros. tried to Trademark “React”, it was for video media, possibly digitally distributed video, don’t entirely remember. But it doesn’t cover React being used in games or other artwork. It was still stupid and overly broad, but there are limits to it.

The interesting thing is, there have not been multiple Golden Sun Trademarks (and still aren’t, to my knowledge), and there has been no format shift for Golden Sun since the E-Shop release (when they probably would have added Digital to Cartridge based forms of gaming media, if it was not already included). So why update within a year, unless they had a specific plan for the IP?

A full analysis of the two Trademark submissions could look for changes made, but I’m too lazy for that.

After having forgotten the Trademark Website used for Shulk's trademark I would need a link to a proper Trademark Filing website so I can look through all the legal proceedings listed.
Edit: Would anyone be willing to provide one?

 

[GoldenSunIsAlive]

I still believe him for now time refocus on the golden boy. If Isaac does get in. Would you guys and gals like too see more from Golden Sun beyond his inclusion trophies, assist trophies, a stage? Anything? Sure this has been asked a lot just wondering.

Characters:

My *ultimate wish* would be to have Isaac as a character and Felix or *maybe and* Matthew as an echo. (This is what I ultimately would like, this doesnt mean its realistic).

AT's:

- Jenna firing random rising dragons unto enemies
- Alex fighting and freezing enemies
- Sheba and Ivan summoning tornadoes and thunders.
- A Djinnfest AT where the djinn you get out of it is randomized and will have different effects (Could get Mars, Mercury, Jupiter and Venus out of it) (Mercury for example pushing people off the platform like mario's watergun etc.)
- A Couple Summons like "Meteor", "Judgement" or "Catastrophe".

Stages:

- Venus Lighthouse (Or all 4 lighthouses shifting on 1 stage)
- Magma Rock (Or all 4 rock main dungeons shifting on 1 stage)
- On the Endless Wall (GS3)

Music:

Pretty much every music piece would do; if I would list this I would have to list atleast 40-50 songs, could elaborate in a next post.

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

We would get a Roy-esk Isaac

Roy looks like he is 17-18
But like 15 in Binding Blade

So Isaac would prob have his old look

Or they can do an Ike situation and rotate old isaac and young isaac

I wouldn't mind if they have us a 20-21 year old Isaac.

However long it takes him to start wearing his coat. Make him an amalgam of his younger self's appearance with his older self's fashion sense.

If he uses a two handed longsword that also sets him apart from other sword users, great.

 

[pholtos]

After having forgotten the Trademark Website used for Shulk's trademark I would need a link to a proper Trademark Filing website so I can look through all the legal proceedings listed.
Edit: Would anyone be willing to provide one?

Here's the 2017 one.
As for the 2018 one... uhh...
I can't read japanese.
[商願2018-107102] 商標:[画像] (標準文字) / 出願人:任天堂株式会社 / 出願日:2018年8月24日 / 区分:9(電子ゲーム用プログラム,ダウンロード可能な電子ゲーム用プログラム,ビデオゲーム用プログラム,ダウンロード可能なビデオゲーム用プログラム,家庭…
This is from a twitter that auto posts trademarks. Everywhere I look I only see people talking about how it's been renewed, and not what's on the renewal. The tweet also cuts out probably too early to get any pertinent information on changes.
Edit: Ah found the full... in japanese.

Spoiler

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Updated

Here's the 2017 one.
As for the 2018 one... uhh...
I can't read japanese.
[商願2018-107102] 商標:[画像] (標準文字) / 出願人:任天堂株式会社 / 出願日:2018年8月24日 / 区分:9(電子ゲーム用プログラム,ダウンロード可能な電子ゲーム用プログラム,ビデオゲーム用プログラム,ダウンロード可能なビデオゲーム用プログラム,家庭…

Alright, so..... ^This text says the same thing that your 2017 link does:

Spoiler

[ Cartridges and memory cards featuring entertainment and informational content, entertainment instruction and informational instruction, all pertaining to games; ] computer game cartridges; computer game memory cards; computer game programs; computer game software; electronic game cartridges; electronic game memory cards; electronic game programs; electronic game software; interactive game cartridges; interactive game memory cards; interactiv...

All in all, it is nothing special and just word salad for legal reasons.

This is from a twitter that auto posts trademarks. Everywhere I look I only see people talking about how it's been renewed, and not what's on the renewal. The tweet also cuts out probably too early to get any pertinent information on changes.
Edit: Ah found the full... in japanese.

Spoiler

^ Right now I am running this image through a reverse image search. Reverse image search gave me nothing.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Updated



Alright, so..... ^This text says the same thing that your 2017 link does:

Spoiler

[ Cartridges and memory cards featuring entertainment and informational content, entertainment instruction and informational instruction, all pertaining to games; ] computer game cartridges; computer game memory cards; computer game programs; computer game software; electronic game cartridges; electronic game memory cards; electronic game programs; electronic game software; interactive game cartridges; interactive game memory cards; interactiv...

All in all, it is nothing special and just word salad for legal reasons.




^ Right now I am running this image through a reverse image search.

Thanks. Cartridges makes sense. GS was already on carts to begin with, and even in the case of it being related to Smash, Smash is on a cart now anyway.

I think this also takes into account digital?

 

[Skyblade12]

Thanks. Cartridges makes sense. GS was already on carts to begin with, and even in the case of it being related to Smash, Smash is on a cart now anyway.

I think this also takes into account digital?

I think so. “Electronic game software” would probably cover it.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I think so. “Electronic game software” would probably cover it.

Yeah, my assumption is that "electronic game software" seems to cover digital. Basically, you only need optical or cartridges in the trademark, digital comes right along with it.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Thanks. Cartridges makes sense. GS was already on carts to begin with, and even in the case of it being related to Smash, Smash is on a cart now anyway.

I think this also takes into account digital?

It does. It is mainly what Nintendo put to, in lack of a better term, cover their ass in the legal sense.

However, this bit of code:
T2018-107102 < This is the important part

000233778

^ These are trademark codes mainly the T2018-107102 part. Unfortunately I am turning up negative results, but if we can find this code with the translated text then we have our answer.

The two pages of information are entirely different and contain different information because the Kanji are entirely different. If only I could find a text sample of the secondary image.

Edit: In other words, if we can find out which document this code, T2018-107102, came from then we will finally know what Nintendo has in store for Golden Sun.