Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[KMDP]

Where's that darn FOURTH elemental star?

I was talking more about Saturos is bellowing at Isaac to give him (and Menardi) "THE ROD", which just sounds like innuendo.

Also, that cutscene makes me think that Saturos is the worse of the two.

You give up the Shaman's Rod, and Menardi was actually willing to trade it for Sheba... for some reason.

...

One thing I just thought of... Saturos and Menardi might not have actually needed Sheba.

If they needed the Shaman's Rod and a Jupiter Adept, they could have just made a big show of going to Jupiter Lighthouse, waited until Isaac and company opened it themselves, then followed them in.

Though... that would have probably caused issues at the Aerie, but you could cross that bridge when you come to it.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

What number do you think the base roster will end with? 75?

73 are confirmed right now if including echo fighters. I'll say the final tally for the base roster will be 81. Could be a nice flat 80 or even up to 82 if factoring in the consistency of the "3 fighters a week" in the blog.

 

[pholtos]

If they needed the Shaman's Rod and a Jupiter Adept, they could have just made a big show of going to Jupiter Lighthouse, waited until Isaac and company opened it themselves, then followed them in.

Would that work? Recall Mercury Lighthouse. The entrance was blocked with Saturos and Co. in the lighthouse, only openable by ply.
...
...
If it was possible to use ply that early on by another character via Djinn shenanigans, could you actually skip Mia?
I mean skip Mia beyond the silly glitch way involving retreat.

 

[hustler713]

Has anyone consideres that the direct could also been delayed because of Pokemon, if they decided to show of Giovanni (Ground Pokemon and moves like Earthquake, Intensity etc.)?

 

[Confirmation]

I think it HAS to be a number divisible by 4 due to that new Smashdown mode. Could be 80 aswell if it is playable in 8 player mode, but they didn't announce it this way and usually do if possible. Also unsure how Echoes work in Smashdown, but i'll assume they are treated as seperate fighters for all intents and purposes, so we have to subtract 2 fighters from the current official total of 67 (Squirtle and Ivysaur) and add 6 (Daisy/Lucina/DarkPit/DarkSamus/Richter/Chrom), bringing us to a whopping 71. So my prediction is:

Not counting Echoes: 76 / 5 more newcomers
With Echoes added: 80/ 5 new + 4 echoes

5/4 seems reasonable. If we plug in Vergeben (though I don't trust 100% trust 'em), we get something like this:

Pokemon
SE Rep

Ken
Isabelle

Add in the Dojo stuff and we get

Pokemon
Isaac
Geno (SE Rep?)
Bandana Dee
Banjo?

Ken
Isabelle
Dixie
Shadow

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I saw this ****post on Reddit about how since there is 7 Fire Emblem characters, there should be 7 links.

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/9en3s1/why_smash_bros_should_have_7_links_also_a_redone/


The joke is that there are too many Fire Emblem characters.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I think it HAS to be a number divisible by 4 due to that new Smashdown mode. Could be 80 aswell if it is playable in 8 player mode, but they didn't announce it this way and usually do if possible. Also unsure how Echoes work in Smashdown, but i'll assume they are treated as seperate fighters for all intents and purposes, so we have to subtract 2 fighters from the current official total of 67 (Squirtle and Ivysaur) and add 6 (Daisy/Lucina/DarkPit/DarkSamus/Richter/Chrom), bringing us to a whopping 71. So my prediction is:

Not counting Echoes: 76 / 5 more newcomers
With Echoes added: 80/ 5 new + 4 echoes

It don't think it has to be a number divisible by 4 at all. It may be that way just so it "looks nice" but it doesn't have to be that way for it to work.

Think about it, how are you going to play Smashdown when you haven't unlocked every character? Or when you download a new dlc character? There has to be a way for the mode to be able to end without every available character being picked.

Otherwise you wouldn't be able to play Smashdown until every character was unlocked and you can forget about getting any dlc characters.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Smashdown isn't gonna determine how many more fighters are left.

All we know is that there ARE some more to be announced.

 

[KMDP]

Would that work? Recall Mercury Lighthouse. The entrance was blocked with Saturos and Co. in the lighthouse, only openable by ply.
...
...
If it was possible to use ply that early on by another character via Djinn shenanigans, could you actually skip Mia?
I mean skip Mia beyond the silly glitch way involving retreat.

If you go into Mercury Lighthouse, then leave, the door doesn't close until you actually leave the Lighthouse proper, the door probably operates on a timer (a generous timer at that). Like the Venus Lighthouse door, it would probably still close for non-Adepts, but Saturos and Menardi are adepts, so that's not an issue.

I'd have to play Jupiter Lighthouse myself to remember exactly how you get in, but Isaac and co. plus Agatio and Karst, were all present without the Shaman's Rod, so Saturos and Menardi could have pulled it off.

The thing about skipping Mia is that you can't get a Mercury Djinn until you get Mia, Fizz and Sleet are the first ones you see, and you can't get any more until after you cross the drawbridge, which requires healing Tret, which requires Hermes Water, which requires Mia.

Speaking of Ply, does it bug anyone else that Ply does nothing out of battle after Mercury Lighthouse?

Like, you could use it to heal Dora (Isaac's mom), or the injured people you see on the way to Venus Lighthouse, but nope. It's something that always bugged me, you let the player map Ply to the shoulder buttons, but don't give it something to do after it's plot significance? OK.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

5/4 seems reasonable. If we plug in Vergeben (though I don't trust 100% trust 'em), we get something like this:

Pokemon
SE Rep

Ken
Isabelle

Add in the Dojo stuff and we get

Pokemon
Isaac
Geno (SE Rep?)
Bandana Dee
Banjo?

Ken
Isabelle
Dixie
Shadow

If I had to guess right now I'd say

Unique:
Isaac
Geno
Incineroar

Then pick two from: Bandana Dee, Elma, Banjo & Kazooie, Rayman

If we're lucky, pick three from the above list instead of two.

Echo:

Isabelle
Ken
Dixie Kong
Shadow

I think echoes are harder to predict. Black Shadow and Black Knight seem like possibilities too, especially Black Knight.

I think it's possible for Microsoft to have Minecraft content in the game but not have a character (yet) due to joining the project relatively late. That's a scenario in which I could see Banjo & Kazooie being dlc rather than being included in the base roster.

 

[iam8bit]

With all the news that have already surfaced recently, I'm honestly considering that the Direct will be fully reworked or just cancelled altogether... and I don't know what that means for the (likely) included Smash Info.

 

[Deleted member]

For the record, they're slowly creeping along with discussing the towns in Pokemon Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee. Today, they just mentioned Celadon City, without going into details about Giovanni, considering this would be the first time you battled him.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

I wish Nintendo would communicate and tell us something even just a tweet. We know nothing about what is going on.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

With all the news that have already surfaced recently, I'm honestly considering that the Direct will be fully reworked or just cancelled altogether... and I don't know what that means for the (likely) included Smash Info.

They've already promised a new date for it in the future, so I doubt it'll be completely canceled. However, if the change of plans with the direct is too severe and lengthy for their liking, they could just upload the trailer(s) and other info separately like with Robin/Lucina or perhaps make a mini Smash direct out of it.

They'll get that Smash info out to us one way or another.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

With all the news that have already surfaced recently, I'm honestly considering that the Direct will be fully reworked or just cancelled altogether... and I don't know what that means for the (likely) included Smash Info.

Wouldn't they be contractually obligated to go ahead with the direct though? Third parties would probably have some kind of deal with Nintendo.

I think they're just holding back on the direct because there's game footage (like the supposed leak said) that could be considered insensitive. So they may be waiting for the full week.

I wouldn't get too carried away worrying about it until we get to Thursday with no direct.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Y'all see this post on the general discussion thread? Looks pretty solid!

Oh hey, it's the Venus guy I saw lurking earlier. Cool ****. Incredibly detailed.

With all the news that have already surfaced recently, I'm honestly considering that the Direct will be fully reworked or just cancelled altogether... and I don't know what that means for the (likely) included Smash Info.

I doubt they would cancel the direct. They NEED to get this direct out to explain the damn Online. (Because everyone is confused by it.)

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

From what I can see everyone is already super upset about the online and I'm not sure why since we still didn't have the direct about it.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

From what I can see everyone is already super upset about the online and I'm not sure why since we still didn't have the direct about it.

Because Splatoon 2 and Pokémon won't be backed up to the cloud.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

Because Splatoon 2 and Pokémon won't be backed up to the cloud.

It's that bad ? I can't tell I never use backup saves and stuff.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

It's that bad ? I can't tell I never use backup saves and stuff.

Well, yeah. They're the two biggest online games on Nintendo Switch. And the ability to not back it up (since they can't locally back it up) is aggravating to most fans.

 

[Confirmation]

Man, I actually forgot about the whole reason they're doing the Direct for a bit there: the online feature.

Yeah pushing that back in the slightest is a massive mess.

 

[JaidynReiman]

It don't think it has to be a number divisible by 4 at all. It may be that way just so it "looks nice" but it doesn't have to be that way for it to work.

Think about it, how are you going to play Smashdown when you haven't unlocked every character? Or when you download a new dlc character? There has to be a way for the mode to be able to end without every available character being picked.

Otherwise you wouldn't be able to play Smashdown until every character was unlocked and you can forget about getting any dlc characters.

The problem with the arguments being made about Smashdown is its very likely you can play it with ANY NUMBER of players. Because of this, Smashdown probably will simply end when there's not enough characters for all players anymore, or after a previously specified number of rounds. I highly doubt the final roster MUST be divisible by 4 specifically, because that doesn't make any sense. The number of players is flexible.

 

[alguidrag]

If you go into Mercury Lighthouse, then leave, the door doesn't close until you actually leave the Lighthouse proper, the door probably operates on a timer (a generous timer at that). Like the Venus Lighthouse door, it would probably still close for non-Adepts, but Saturos and Menardi are adepts, so that's not an issue.

I'd have to play Jupiter Lighthouse myself to remember exactly how you get in, but Isaac and co. plus Agatio and Karst, were all present without the Shaman's Rod, so Saturos and Menardi could have pulled it off.

The thing about skipping Mia is that you can't get a Mercury Djinn until you get Mia, Fizz and Sleet are the first ones you see, and you can't get any more until after you cross the drawbridge, which requires healing Tret, which requires Hermes Water, which requires Mia.

Speaking of Ply, does it bug anyone else that Ply does nothing out of battle after Mercury Lighthouse?

Like, you could use it to heal Dora (Isaac's mom), or the injured people you see on the way to Venus Lighthouse, but nope. It's something that always bugged me, you let the player map Ply to the shoulder buttons, but don't give it something to do after it's plot significance? OK.

Also one thing
How Saturos and Menardi got in Venus Lighthouse if they don't have reveal? that door in babi's lighthouse only open with reveal and Sheba didn't know that back then.

And how they got after the puzzles in Venus if they didn't had "Carry"? Since Felix party didn't have at start of TLA.

And the Jupiter lighthouse thing, how Isaac party/Karst and Agatio managed there without Cyclone and Hover? its not like this 2 psyenergy are "Open doorway" type, they're more of "Movement" psyenergy.

I think the only way for Saturos and Menardi/ Karst Agatio made thought all this is because Alex have a thousand of many diferent elements Psyenergy with him(like we can give frost and douse to Garet for example) including "rare ones" like Reveal and others

Or Alex just warp everyone everywhere, this guy can freaking warp.

In Isaac side... maybe they got Cyclone but for gameplay purposes they don't have it so we won't have a pointless double Cyclone chip? Still bugs me for Hover, buuut Ivan is the "boy of legend" that would get hover so they could make him a exception even without the Shaman Rod

 

[Shin F.]

The problem with the arguments being made about Smashdown is its very likely you can play it with ANY NUMBER of players. Because of this, Smashdown probably will simply end when there's not enough characters for all players anymore, or after a previously specified number of rounds. I highly doubt the final roster MUST be divisible by 4 specifically, because that doesn't make any sense. The number of players is flexible.

Perhaps if there aren't enough fighters to go around in the last match, there'll simply be a smaller match with the players who have the most wins or something

 

[hustler713]

Perhaps if there aren't enough fighters to go around in the last match, there'll simply be a smaller match with the players who have the most wins or something

Loosers have to stick with their previous char when the run out of chars. Or Winners get random. There it is possible that chars can get used twice in such a case.

 

[jweb23]

Smashdown isn't gonna determine how many more fighters are left.

All we know is that there ARE some more to be announced.

Sorry but I have to disagree. Assuming Sakurai is keeping the same developer mentality that he had during Smash 4 then it’s safe to say he is developing this game without the possibility of DLC in the future so all of the modes in the base game are tailored to the base roster.

So the mode we are talking about is Smashdown and considering you have to unlock a majority of the characters we can assume a possible reward for unlocking all of them is unlocking the Smashdown mode because that mode seems pointless if it’s available at the start with only 8 to 12 playable characters. Due to the mode allowing up to 4 players at once I highly doubt there would be “leftover” characters forcing someone to not be able to play the final round meaning the available roster for that mode will HAVE to be a multiple of 4!

I use the word available because it appears the Miis are not playable in this mode:

With the Miis cut out that puts the roster currently at 68.

Now let’s also assume that this mode simply allows up to 4 players but you can do it with 3 or 2 players as well so the final number now needs to not only be a multiple of 4 but also a multiple of 3 as well. That makes the potential base roster number quite interesting!

Assuming the Miis stay off the Smashdown mode then the possible final number of the base roster In this mode will be either 72 or 84! With this in mind until further information is given, it’s a safe bet to say the final count for the Smash Ultimate roster will be either 77 or 89 (Pokémon Trainer counts as 3 so you have to add 2 plus the 3 Miis left out).

 

[GoodGrief741]

Sorry but I have to disagree. Assuming Sakurai is keeping the same developer mentality that he had during Smash 4 then it’s safe to say he is developing this game without the possibility of DLC in the future so all of the modes in the base game are tailored to the base roster.

So the mode we are talking about is Smashdown and considering you have to unlock a majority of the characters we can assume a possible reward for unlocking all of them is unlocking the Smashdown mode because that mode seems pointless if it’s available at the start with only 8 to 12 playable characters. Due to the mode allowing up to 4 players at once I highly doubt there would be “leftover” characters forcing someone to not be able to play the final round meaning the available roster for that mode will HAVE to be a multiple of 4!

I use the word available because it appears the Miis are not playable in this mode:
View attachment 163130

With the Miis cut out that puts the roster currently at 68.

Now let’s also assume that this mode simply allows up to 4 players but you can do it with 3 or 2 players as well so the final number now needs to not only be a multiple of 4 but also a multiple of 3 as well. That makes the potential base roster number quite interesting!

Assuming the Miis stay off the Smashdown mode then the possible final number of the base roster In this mode will be either 72 or 84! With this in mind until further information is given, it’s a safe bet to say the final count for the Smash Ultimate roster will be either 77 or 89 (Pokémon Trainer counts as 3 so you have to add 2 plus the 3 Miis left out).

I don’t think Smashdown, being a multiplayer mode, will be unlockable.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

Maybe the number of characters is adjusted after selecting the number of players by randomly removing some of them ?

 

[jweb23]

I don’t think Smashdown, being a multiplayer mode, will be unlockable.

That’s safe to assume but it doesn’t change the argument of the final base roster fitting those numbers.

 

[JaidynReiman]

That’s safe to assume but it doesn’t change the argument of the final base roster fitting those numbers.

There is no argument. The argument STILL ignores the fact that you can have 2-8 players playing at any given time. There is NO WAY to make it line up perfectly because of that, and ultimately, should not be used as a measure to say "the roster must be divisible by X" or else this game mode won't work, because the assumption is flawed from the very beginning. The mode will have to be designed with the idea in mind that the final count doesn't add up no matter what, making the entire argument a moot point.

 

[jweb23]

There is no argument. The argument STILL ignores the fact that you can have 2-8 players playing at any given time. There is NO WAY to make it line up perfectly because of that, and ultimately, should not be used as a measure to say "the roster must be divisible by X" or else this game mode won't work, because the assumption is flawed from the very beginning. The mode will have to be designed with the idea in mind that the final count doesn't add up no matter what, making the entire argument a moot point.

Considering the direct only showed 4 players at a time. I personally do not believe you can have up to 8 play that mode. Not saying it isn’t possible but the video they showed of it only had 4 players so until updated info comes out I do not believe that mode supports more than 4 at a time.

 

[SchAlternate]

The problem with the arguments being made about Smashdown is its very likely you can play it with ANY NUMBER of players. Because of this, Smashdown probably will simply end when there's not enough characters for all players anymore, or after a previously specified number of rounds. I highly doubt the final roster MUST be divisible by 4 specifically, because that doesn't make any sense. The number of players is flexible.

Additionally, if the roster really is arranged so that there can be enough a final round in Smashdown, it would be divisible by 12, not 4, since 3-Player Smash also has to be taken into account. And that's not even getting into 8-Player Smash and all numbers in between.

Plus, by the time DLC hits, all the effort put into arranging the roster like that would be wasted, anyway.

 

[Organization XIII]

Just because I was curious I did look to see how many characters would be needed at a minimum for 8 players to play the mode and no matter the number of players the amount of characters will always be perfectly divisible by the number of players. Basically, 8 is divisible by 4 and 2 and 6 is divisible by 3 so I only need to check 8, 7, 6 and 5 for the lcm for the least amount of characters possible for the mode to function. The answer was 840 characters. If it's 7 the number drops to 420, 6 is 60, and 5 is also 60.

 

[KMDP]

Also one thing
How Saturos and Menardi got in Venus Lighthouse if they don't have reveal? that door in babi's lighthouse only open with reveal and Sheba didn't know that back then.

And how they got after the puzzles in Venus if they didn't had "Carry"? Since Felix party didn't have at start of TLA.

And the Jupiter lighthouse thing, how Isaac party/Karst and Agatio managed there without Cyclone and Hover? its not like this 2 psyenergy are "Open doorway" type, they're more of "Movement" psyenergy.

I think the only way for Saturos and Menardi/ Karst Agatio made thought all this is because Alex have a thousand of many diferent elements Psyenergy with him(like we can give frost and douse to Garet for example) including "rare ones" like Reveal and others

Or Alex just warp everyone everywhere, this guy can freaking warp.

In Isaac side... maybe they got Cyclone but for gameplay purposes they don't have it so we won't have a pointless double Cyclone chip? Still bugs me for Hover, buuut Ivan is the "boy of legend" that would get hover so they could make him a exception even without the Shaman Rod

The answer is really quite simple.

They got up the Lighthouses through the magic of plot convenience because there are multiple paths up the Lighthouse that we don't see.

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

I'm an impatient Zoomer and I need info NOW REEEEEEEE

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Smashdown as a mode interests me, as we know it's basically Sakurai's take on the "Iron Man" Smash comp.

But I'd liked to know what happens when there are less fighters available than there are players.

 

[Xenigma]

Random bit of irony: the delay for the Direct due to a natural disaster has been long enough that I'm now in a mandatory evacuation zone for a totally different natural disaster (Hurricane Florence). Thankfully I should be fine as I'm quite far south of the expected landing area at this point, but gotta feel bad for any North Carolina Smash fans right about now.

 

[alguidrag]

The answer is really quite simple.

They got up the Lighthouses through the magic of plot convenience because there are multiple paths up the Lighthouse that we don't see.

That would explain everything, even what happened to Isaac's Lemurian ship after the partys fused

 

[Gioka]

Random bit of irony: the delay for the Direct due to a natural disaster has been long enough that I'm now in a mandatory evacuation zone for a totally different natural disaster (Hurricane Florence). Thankfully I should be fine as I'm quite far south of the expected landing area at this point, but gotta feel bad for any North Carolina Smash fans right about now.

Please stay safe and, if you can, keep us updated

 

[clearandsweet]

Random bit of irony: the delay for the Direct due to a natural disaster has been long enough that I'm now in a mandatory evacuation zone for a totally different natural disaster (Hurricane Florence). Thankfully I should be fine as I'm quite far south of the expected landing area at this point, but gotta feel bad for any North Carolina Smash fans right about now.

In Richmond hoping to get some free time off work Thursday or Friday

...TO MAKE A VIDEO BREAKING DOWN ISAAC GAMEPLAY FOOTAGE.

Stay safe, friendo.