Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

XenoWarriorX · Aug 26, 2018

Legendary Spirit Tamer said:
Pretty sure it's because Echoes aren't made the same was the previous clones. Do note that they still have the same moveset as the base character, with only animation tweaks and at best a Final Smash. Unique animations for things like taunts, slightly varied aesthetics, are not the same thing as entirely different movesets, weights, etc. Dr. Mario, like the rest of the clones are significantly different in their weights, power, knockback, abilities, and even have different models(though similar enough ones. Dr. Mario is the only clone with the same model).

Echoes are easy 1:1 clones. Regular clones are not 1:1 inherently. Plus, Dr. Mario has a very different moveset with severely different properties.

I actually think ZeRo did an analysis on Dark Samus. Check it out if you want.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5ZYBU94ap4

I'm not too sure i'd say Dark Samus is a 1:1 in terms of moveset.

Verde Coeden Scalesworth · Aug 26, 2018

XenoWarriorX said:
I actually think ZeRo did an analysis on Dark Samus. Check it out if you want.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5ZYBU94ap4

I'm not too sure i'd say Dark Samus is a 1:1 in terms of moveset.

It's 1:1 with the proportions. I really said that poorly.

She has clear tweaks to better represent her character. It's clear the Echoes are worked on more than 4's were. That said, there's a small possibility they're just the new name for basic clones or something. Just with 1:1 proportions otherwise.

GoodGrief741 · Aug 26, 2018

Legendary Spirit Tamer said:
It's 1:1 with the proportions. I really said that poorly.

She has clear tweaks to better represent her character. It's clear the Echoes are worked on more than 4's were. That said, there's a small possibility they're just the new name for basic clones or something. Just with 1:1 proportions otherwise.

Well, Chrom definitely isn’t a straight clone. But he may be the exception, given how similar in proportions most FE characters are.

XenoWarriorX · Aug 26, 2018

Legendary Spirit Tamer said:
It's 1:1 with the proportions. I really said that poorly.

She has clear tweaks to better represent her character. It's clear the Echoes are worked on more than 4's were. That said, there's a small possibility they're just the new name for basic clones or something. Just with 1:1 proportions otherwise.

I wish there was more info about her, We still haven't really seen some moves being performed yet. But she seems like she had a lot of work put into her.

And the more i think of it, the more the work on echoes seem less surprising. At least they didn't have to make 2 different versions for two separate consoles.

Who knows how much they got done. :D

Verde Coeden Scalesworth · Aug 26, 2018

XenoWarriorX said:
I wish there was more info about her, We still haven't really seen some moves being performed yet. But she seems like she had a lot of work put into her.

And the more i think of it, the more the work on echoes seem less surprising. At least they didn't have to make 2 different versions for two separate consoles.

Who knows how much they got done. :D

That might be why. They probably aren't last minute either(Richter obviously wasn't).

GoodGrief741 said:
Well, Chrom definitely isn’t a straight clone. But he may be the exception, given how similar in proportions most FE characters are.

Exactly. This is why I don't think he's a good argument for, say, Dixie easily getting a retool of DK's Up B. Maybe it could work, maybe it couldn't. But Ike and Chrom shared near identical builds, so retooling the animation after already having a fully playable model and skeleton was not that super hard.

From my understanding, it might be doable because Donkey Kong and Dixie have similar proportions, at least.

?!?!?! · Aug 26, 2018

GoodGrief741 said:
I hope there is an edition of Smash Ultimate with a Season Pass. Otherwise the DLC for this game is gonna bleed me dry. (And I’ll love every second of it.

This. Dark Samus and Chrom could have been labeled as unique Fighters and I don’t think anybody would have complained. Plus we’d all be more scared about how few characters are probably left, and Sakurai trollmaster feeds on our fear.

I feel like if dark samus was considered a unique fighter some people would be a bit disappointed. And the only reason being that a lot of its moves arent inspired from the moves it has in the prime series. For example if dark samus' moves as an assist trophy in smash 4 were incorporated into the moveset then that could very much make it a unique fighter

Silo777 · Aug 26, 2018

I thought I'd go through my complete thoughts on Isaac's chances in Ultimate in one post. Here we go, let's start with the collected pros and cons listed from most important to least important. I won't be including any "leaks," as I believe those are fake until proven real.

Pros

+ He's first-party Nintendo. While 3rd Party characters are obviously possible, Smash has always given emphasis and priority on Nintendo's history. Easily the best thing he has going for him.

+ The Ballot. Sakurai has confirmed that he used the Ballot to decide the cast, or at least most of it. This is extremely good for Isaac, as the Ballot was his best shot since he did have a major push to vote for him. The exit polls show that Isaac is currently #1 overall from that data. While it's not conclusive, it's a very good sign of his performance. The demand is there.

+ The potential for a moveset is enormous. Seriously, there is no limit to what they can do with Isaac. He brings something very unique to Smash, and anyone who played even a bit of Golden Sun knows that his sword doesn't define him, it's his Psynergy.

+ He's been in Smash before. He was an assist trophy in Brawl but removed in 4. However, this can only be a good thing for him. The assist trophy shows that Sakurai and Nintendo are aware of Golden Sun and Isaac. His removal in 4 only caused people to want him more, and made it so it would be harder to just bring him back as an assist in Ultimate.

+ His franchise was very well received, and pretty popular at it's time. The Golden Sun games were some of the best games the GBA had to offer, and Isaac is the main face of that. While Dark Dawn wasn't amazing, it wasn't horrible either. There's even the fact that there are pictures of Golden Sun on the boxes of GBAs. It could bring more GBA representation to Smash, because it needs it.

+ The hints. By no means is any of the hints we have conclusive in any way, but they are pretty convincing when put under a magnifying glass. The tweet is the most obvious, and honestly if there's one thing it's referencing it's definitely Golden Sun. Sakurai has told us before that he never just tweets randomly, and this seems very random if it's not a reference. Sakurai has also shown us that he can totally drop subtle hints like this, with the "red eyes" and the barrels in the background. There's also the big, dare I say "Golden" sun at the end of K Rool's trailer. It's flimsy at best, but worth mentioning. If nothing else, all that got people talking about Isaac.

Cons

- He wasn't super popular in Japan. He was still popular, just not as much as in North America and Europe. Not sure how this will affect him.

- He does have some competition. Only so many characters can make it into Ultimate.

I noticed while writing this that I just couldn't come up with many good cons. Why is that? Well, almost every con associated with Isaac has been completely disproven by Ultimate. Stuff like him being "irrelevant" don't matter anymore, and that is why it's looking so good for Isaac right now. Nothing is a sure thing and I think we should keep that in mind, but the chances have never been better and I feel like now is finally the time.

pholtos · Aug 26, 2018

Have the meanest idea I've had for an trailer vid.
Link, Bowser and Peach are walking through an oddly mazelike forest. They keep getting lost, returning back to the same area, an area with a lone dead tree. (You can see how this is mean, right? It points to both Skull Kid and Geno)
But surprise, it's Mogall Forest.
Scenario A: A ghostly hand comes out of no where and strikes the tree, causing an ape to come out and hop the correct way, Isaac lends a hand.
Scenario B: Vines grow from the ground, entrapping Bowser, under the assumption he's an enemy. (I don't have a tagline for this scenario.

)

That'd be so cruel. Why did this pop into my head? Ah well, no harm meant towards people hoping for Geno or Skull Kid, by the way.

XenoWarriorX · Aug 26, 2018

?!?!?! said:
I feel like if dark samus was considered a unique fighter some people would be a bit disappointed. And the only reason being that a lot of its moves arent inspired from the moves it has in the prime series. For example if dark samus' moves as an assist trophy in smash 4 were incorporated into the moveset then that could very much make it a unique fighter

That's interesting. It reminds me of this video made by a metroid fan.

I legit didn't know Dark Samus had more unique moveset from samus. (I havent played Prime 2 yet.)

DogManStar said:
Xenoblade 1 is a pretty great game, but it drags too much for me to personally call it a favorite. idk why I feel that way. I sunk tons of hours into the Persona series but I've never been able to get past the halfway point of Xenoblade 1.

Ironically, i feel the same for the Persona series as a whole. xD

Silo777 said:
I thought I'd go through my complete thoughts on Isaac's chances in Ultimate in one post. Here we go, let's start with the collected pros and cons listed from most important to least important. I won't be including any "leaks," as I believe those are fake until proven real.

Pros

+ He's first-party Nintendo. While 3rd Party characters are obviously possible, Smash has always given emphasis and priority on Nintendo's history. Easily the best thing he has going for him.

+ The Ballot. Sakurai has confirmed that he used the Ballot to decide the cast, or at least most of it. This is extremely good for Isaac, as the Ballot was his best shot since he did have a major push to vote for him. The exit polls show that Isaac is currently #1 overall from that data. While it's not conclusive, it's a very good sign of his performance. The demand is there.

+ The potential for a moveset is enormous. Seriously, there is no limit to what they can do with Isaac. He brings something very unique to Smash, and anyone who played even a bit of Golden Sun knows that his sword doesn't define him, it's his Psynergy.

+ He's been in Smash before. He was an assist trophy in Brawl but removed in 4. However, this can only be a good thing for him. The assist trophy shows that Sakurai and Nintendo are aware of Golden Sun and Isaac. His removal in 4 only caused people to want him more, and made it so it would be harder to just bring him back as an assist in Ultimate.

+ His franchise was very well received, and pretty popular at it's time. The Golden Sun games were some of the best games the GBA had to offer, and Isaac is the main face of that. While Dark Dawn wasn't amazing, it wasn't horrible either. There's even the fact that there are pictures of Golden Sun on the boxes of GBAs. It could bring more GBA representation to Smash, because it needs it.

+ The hints. By no means is any of the hints we have conclusive in any way, but they are pretty convincing when put under a magnifying glass. The tweet is the most obvious, and honestly if there's one thing it's referencing it's definitely Golden Sun. Sakurai has told us before that he never just tweets randomly, and this seems very random if it's not a reference. Sakurai has also shown us that he can totally drop subtle hints like this, with the "red eyes" and the barrels in the background. There's also the big, dare I say "Golden" sun at the end of K Rool's trailer. It's flimsy at best, but worth mentioning. If nothing else, all that got people talking about Isaac.

Cons

- He wasn't super popular in Japan. He was still popular, just not as much as in North America and Europe. Not sure how this will affect him.

- He does have some competition. Only so many characters can make it into Ultimate.

I noticed while writing this that I just couldn't come up with many good cons. Why is that? Well, almost every con associated with Isaac has been completely disproven by Ultimate. Stuff like him being "irrelevant" don't matter anymore, and that is why it's looking so good for Isaac right now. Nothing is a sure thing and I think we should keep that in mind, but the chances have never been better and I feel like now is finally the time.

Sums up my thoughts exactly.

DogManStar · Aug 26, 2018

Silo777 said:
I thought I'd go through my complete thoughts on Isaac's chances in Ultimate in one post. Here we go, let's start with the collected pros and cons listed from most important to least important. I won't be including any "leaks," as I believe those are fake until proven real.

Pros

+ He's first-party Nintendo. While 3rd Party characters are obviously possible, Smash has always given emphasis and priority on Nintendo's history. Easily the best thing he has going for him.

+ The Ballot. Sakurai has confirmed that he used the Ballot to decide the cast, or at least most of it. This is extremely good for Isaac, as the Ballot was his best shot since he did have a major push to vote for him. The exit polls show that Isaac is currently #1 overall from that data. While it's not conclusive, it's a very good sign of his performance. The demand is there.

+ The potential for a moveset is enormous. Seriously, there is no limit to what they can do with Isaac. He brings something very unique to Smash, and anyone who played even a bit of Golden Sun knows that his sword doesn't define him, it's his Psynergy.

+ He's been in Smash before. He was an assist trophy in Brawl but removed in 4. However, this can only be a good thing for him. The assist trophy shows that Sakurai and Nintendo are aware of Golden Sun and Isaac. His removal in 4 only caused people to want him more, and made it so it would be harder to just bring him back as an assist in Ultimate.

+ His franchise was very well received, and pretty popular at it's time. The Golden Sun games were some of the best games the GBA had to offer, and Isaac is the main face of that. While Dark Dawn wasn't amazing, it wasn't horrible either. There's even the fact that there are pictures of Golden Sun on the boxes of GBAs. It could bring more GBA representation to Smash, because it needs it.

+ The hints. By no means is any of the hints we have conclusive in any way, but they are pretty convincing when put under a magnifying glass. The tweet is the most obvious, and honestly if there's one thing it's referencing it's definitely Golden Sun. Sakurai has told us before that he never just tweets randomly, and this seems very random if it's not a reference. Sakurai has also shown us that he can totally drop subtle hints like this, with the "red eyes" and the barrels in the background. There's also the big, dare I say "Golden" sun at the end of K Rool's trailer. It's flimsy at best, but worth mentioning. If nothing else, all that got people talking about Isaac.

Cons

- He wasn't super popular in Japan. He was still popular, just not as much as in North America and Europe. Not sure how this will affect him.

- He does have some competition. Only so many characters can make it into Ultimate.

I noticed while writing this that I just couldn't come up with many good cons. Why is that? Well, almost every con associated with Isaac has been completely disproven by Ultimate. Stuff like him being "irrelevant" don't matter anymore, and that is why it's looking so good for Isaac right now. Nothing is a sure thing and I think we should keep that in mind, but the chances have never been better and I feel like now is finally the time.

This is a very good write-up. I'll be sure to link this post next time I try to prove to someone why Isaac would be such a natural choice. My only nitpick is that I don't think relevancy is quite dead yet. All irrelevant characters so far have been from series that are still alive. Golden Sun as a whole is gone, not just Isaac. However, if his ballot support was big enough, I don't think that will matter much in the end.

Silo777 · Aug 26, 2018

DogManStar said:
This is a very good write-up. I'll be sure to link this post next time I try to prove to someone why Isaac would be such a natural choice. My only nitpick is that I don't think relevancy is quite dead yet. All irrelevant characters so far have been from series that are still alive. Golden Sun as a whole is gone, not just Isaac. However, if his ballot support was big enough, I don't think that will matter much in the end.

It is dead, but I wouldn't say it's gone. A series is gone when it's over and another game will never, ever be made again. However, Camelot has said that if there's enough demand they aren't opposed to making another Golden Sun.

pholtos · Aug 26, 2018

Phew. My PP management was much better this time, and it helped I could walk around on the ship and restore PP.

Well now that I've made it to Tolbi, time to farm some cash and play some slots to get some rings. Good thing the RNG manipulation and the Lucky Dice are a thing.

?!?!?! · Aug 26, 2018

XenoWarriorX said:
That's interesting. It reminds me of this video made by a metroid fan.

I legit didn't know Dark Samus had more unique moveset from samus. (I havent played Prime 2 yet.)

Ohhh my friend you need to get on that as soon as possible. Play prime 3 as well, just to see the full badass that is dark samus. Im a metroid fan first and foremost so naturally I would've wanted a more unique moveset. The moveset potential was definitely there, but I'm just happy dark samus got in as a fighter at all

Most people tend to think dark samus is just a literal clone of samus (which it is lol) but close to nothing about their combat style and abilities is the same

Lonodel · Aug 26, 2018

pholtos said:
Phew. My PP management was much better this time, and it helped I could walk around on the ship and restore PP.

Well now that I've made it to Tolbi, time to farm some cash and play some slots to get some rings. Good thing the RNG manipulation and the Lucky Dice are a thing.

Not doing any challenges or anything but just beat deadbeard, about to fight the fusion dragon my goal for this play through was to beat dullahan since I haven't done that before xD

Sabrewulf238 · Aug 26, 2018

XenoWarriorX said:
I find it so strange that Dark Samus and Chrom are considered "echos", but Dr. Mario, Roy, Toon Link and Young Link aren't.

I'm honestly thinking only Dark Pit and Lucina were labeled like that due to their negative reception in 4. xD

I saw a video the other day where someone mentioned that the reason echoes were considered echoes was because all of their basic attacks (and smash attacks) had the same animations....or at least that was what they noticed. (and that a fighter like Dr. Mario had different basic attacks to Mario)

ZelDan · Aug 26, 2018

Silo777 said:
It is dead, but I wouldn't say it's gone. A series is gone when it's over and another game will never, ever be made again. However, Camelot has said that if there's enough demand they aren't opposed to making another Golden Sun.

Shouldn't it be the other way around? If something goes away, it can always come back. If something dies, then...yeah, it's dead...

This is just semantics stuff I suppose though.

Isaac: Venus Adept · Aug 26, 2018

Silo777 said:
It is dead, but I wouldn't say it's gone. A series is gone when it's over and another game will never, ever be made again. However, Camelot has said that if there's enough demand they aren't opposed to making another Golden Sun.

Yeah Golden Sun isn't dead until Camelot outright says they are done with the series which they haven't yet. Takahashi says he wants us to give him time to come up with a story

Verde Coeden Scalesworth · Aug 26, 2018

A series being dead means it isn't getting content, because things just didn't work out to do so. Calling it dead isn't wrong by default, but being the creator isn't ready to give more content, it's on hiatus.

A lot of series(like Mother) are finished, not dead. An example of a dead franchise is Banjo & Kazooie.

I also didn't know that Takahashi intends to continue the series. Huh. Nice.

Lonodel · Aug 26, 2018

Man the ending to the first golden sun is so sad, like you just kicked saturos and menardis dragon butt, and your all hyped to go save babi from old age and your about to get on the boat and bam, games over see you after 6months of password entering

Isaac: Venus Adept · Aug 26, 2018

Legendary Spirit Tamer said:
A series being dead means it isn't getting content, because things just didn't work out to do so. Calling it dead isn't wrong by default, but being the creator isn't ready to give more content, it's on hiatus.

A lot of series(like Mother) are finished, not dead. An example of a dead franchise is Banjo & Kazooie.

I also didn't know that Takahashi intends to continue the series. Huh. Nice.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/06/let_camelot_know_if_you_want_another_golden_sun
Well he said if there is enough fan demand it would naturally lead into the development of the next Golden Sun but the thing is this was stated six years ago so who knows if he still has the same thoughts
Although they did mention Golden Sun recently this year in a Nintendo Dream interview for Mario Tennis Aces where they compare special shots to weapon unleashes and psynergy in Golden Sun. They even mentioned how the Temple of Bask in Mario Tennis Aces is called Sol Sanctum in the Japanese version which is Golden Sun's first dungeon and even comparing Mario to an adept and also joking about how the interviewer might've expected a djinn to appear

Skyblade12 · Aug 26, 2018

Isaac: Venus Adept said:
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/06/let_camelot_know_if_you_want_another_golden_sun
Well he said if there is enough fan demand it would naturally lead into the development of the next Golden Sun but the thing is this was stated six years ago so who knows if he still has the same thoughts
Although they did mention Golden Sun recently this year in a Nintendo Dream interview for Mario Tennis Aces where they compare special shots to weapon unleashes and psynergy in Golden Sun. They even mentioned how the Temple of Bask in Mario Tennis Aces is called Sol Sanctum in the Japanese version which is Golden Sun's first dungeon and even comparing Mario to an adept and also joking about how the interviewer might've expected a djinn to appear

...

Man, why couldn’t we have gotten Golden Sun Aces instead?

Huanchi · Aug 26, 2018

I would buy Aces when they make Isaac playable

pholtos · Aug 26, 2018

Ya know, I just realized. This could probably be the best choice for a side b.

On a side note, managed to beat Colosso just fine. So I've got that going for me. I have 4 adept rings so I'm all set for now.

Pwnapplez · Aug 26, 2018

Talks about how Amiibo will unlock fighters in Smash Ultimate.

Makes me want an Isaac Amiibo more

Silo777 · Aug 26, 2018

Huanchi said:
I would buy Aces when they make Isaac playable

Honestly, I have no idea why we haven't seen a Golden Sun cameo in a Mario Tennis game yet.

Imagine if they're saving Isaac dlc in Aces until after his Smash reveal.

ThoughtfulWanderer · Aug 26, 2018

Skyblade12 said:
...

Man, why couldn’t we have gotten Golden Sun Aces instead?

They at least have Golden Sun on their mind if they straight up named a Mario location after Sol Sanctum. What I hope is they're not just trying to be clever and put in a nod without exerting any greater effort, but rather, they received fan responses that have them pondering another Golden Sun game.

Silo777 said:
Honestly, I have no idea why we haven't seen a Golden Sun cameo in a Mario Tennis game yet.

Imagine if they're saving Isaac dlc in Aces until after his Smash reveal.

Not even in Power Tour or Advance Tour (Golf) where the games were made of simple sprites and were literally on the same system as GS. Could've easily thrown Isaac in those as an unlockable character if nothing else.

Though if he's in Smash to resounding reception, I would not at all be surprised to see a new GS game and an eventual crossover with their Mario sports titles.

Skyblade12 · Aug 26, 2018

ThoughtfulWanderer said:
They at least have Golden Sun on their mind if they straight up named a Mario location after Sol Sanctum. What I hope is they're not just trying to be clever and put in a nod without exerting any greater effort, but rather, they received fan responses that have them pondering another Golden Sun game.

Not even in Power Tour or Advance Tour (Golf) where the games were made of simple sprites and were literally on the same system as GS. Could've easily thrown Isaac in those as an unlockable character if nothing else.

Though if he's in Smash to resounding reception, I would not at all be surprised to see a new GS game and an eventual crossover with their Mario sports titles.

They put it in the Japanese version. Pity it wasn’t translated. Might that give lie to the “not popular in Japan” statement, though?

Huanchi · Aug 26, 2018

Did we talk about this leak https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76926038 here already?

ThoughtfulWanderer · Aug 26, 2018

Skyblade12 said:
They put it in the Japanese version. Pity it wasn’t translated. Might that give lie to the “not popular in Japan” statement, though?

It could (and I hope so even though it could just be the devs noting their past work). Though it would be ironic in that case for it to be not carried over into other languages since Isaac is believed to be more popular in America and Europe. Maybe translators just thought it didn't fit.

Sabrewulf238 · Aug 26, 2018

Huanchi said:
Did we talk about this leak https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76926038 here already?

It seems like a pretty safe "leak". Though they spelled Isaac wrong, I feel like anyone with a source straight from a developer would be spelling character names correctly.

I like how it says [Credible Source] in the thread title.

pholtos · Aug 26, 2018

That moment when you have a double take due to your own doofy naming shenanigans.

I named Sheba Ivan.

True Blue Warrior · Aug 26, 2018

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TempestSurge · Aug 26, 2018

DogManStar said:
This is a very good write-up. I'll be sure to link this post next time I try to prove to someone why Isaac would be such a natural choice. My only nitpick is that I don't think relevancy is quite dead yet. All irrelevant characters so far have been from series that are still alive. Golden Sun as a whole is gone, not just Isaac. However, if his ballot support was big enough, I don't think that will matter much in the end.

Donkey kong series being alive really didn't help King K. Rool get into Smash any faster. I really think it's a matter of them just thinking that the character wasn't that popular, especially of we go by that K. Rool overwhelming reception to the ballot and his votes.

Once again if Sakurai says he's looking to the ballot, the only thing that should matter is Isaac's votes. There shouldn't be other criteria on top of that. How fair would it be that despite doing well, he's cast aside cause his series is deemed irrelevant or his slot should go to someone who placed lower than him but more recognizable? The fact that Isaac is a popular ballot pick at all should speak volumes to Sakurai.

User Name String · Aug 26, 2018

If Spirits was a story mode do you think it would make sense for Villain v Hero as each character getting revealed has an evil/ Good counterpart?
(Ex. Simon: Dracula/Richter(Symphony), Chrom: Grima)
Could this also potentially help an Octoling & Felix echo?

Sabrewulf238 · Aug 26, 2018

User Name String said:
If Spirits was a story mode do you think it would make sense for Villain v Hero as each character getting revealed has an evil/ Good counterpart?
(Ex. Simon: Dracula/Richter(Symphony), Chrom: Grima)
Could this also potentially help an Octoling & Felix echo?

I don't really buy the whole Heroes vs Villains idea. I think the main reason villains are getting in is because they were popular on the ballot (because we had a lack of villains)

Also I feel like Loz is part of the reason why this Heroes vs Villains idea got started too. All because he thought the K. Rool trailer mean the whole game had a Heroes vs Villains theme.

For what it's worth I think it would be pretty natural to have villains appearing in an adventure as bosses (like Petey Piranha or Porky in subspace) but I don't think that has anything to do with Heroes vs Villains any more than any story obviously needs protagonists and antagonists.

User Name String · Aug 26, 2018

Sabrewulf238 said:
I don't really buy the whole Heroes vs Villains idea. I think the main reason villains are getting in is because they were popular on the ballot (because we had a lack of villains)

Also I feel like Loz is part of the reason why this Heroes vs Villains idea got started too. All because he thought the K. Rool trailer mean the whole game had a Heroes vs Villains theme.

For what it's worth I think it would be pretty natural to have villains appearing in an adventure as bosses (like Petey Piranha or Porky in subspace) but I don't think that has anything to do with Heroes vs Villains any more than any story obviously needs protagonists and antagonists.

I don't deny any of those reasons least of all the boss reasoning, however for a story to occur for most of these characters a villain could exist as a push to action. I'm more noting that a majority of the new cast appearing as villains could aid in storytelling and proper confrontations that are not Wario v. Lucas the most weirdly hyped fight in Sub-Space's story.

Pwnapplez · Aug 26, 2018

User Name String said:
If Spirits was a story mode do you think it would make sense for Villain v Hero as each character getting revealed has an evil/ Good counterpart?
(Ex. Simon: Dracula/Richter(Symphony), Chrom: Grima)
Could this also potentially help an Octoling & Felix echo?

No, it’s going to be like Subspace. We will get villains but not for every series. I don’t see black devil getting a spot for Falcon. They can pretty much use the same thing for Porky in Subspace.

I don’t think we are going to get Felix (as much as I want him)

If anything, I feel like the bosses could be AT. Just like the Monster Hunter one.

Since they can be knocked out.

However, I don’t think we will get a real Subspace again. I think it’s going to be like melee adventure mode.

Beat the mode with a character, and unlock a new one. Different bosses for each run. Etc etc.

Huanchi · Aug 26, 2018

*ding ding ding*

here we go folks. Another Gamefaqs leak.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76937865

And yes, this also includes our boy and his lovely brown haired echo

Isaac: Venus Adept · Aug 26, 2018

Huanchi said:
*ding ding ding*

here we go folks. Another Gamefaqs leak.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76937865

And yes, this also includes our boy and his lovely brown haired echo

On one hand I'd love for this to be real because Isaac is mentioned as a playable character but on the other hand I don't want it to be real because my most wanted third party being Rayman is an assist trophy

Flynn.Scifo · Aug 26, 2018

We need new leaks to discuss, where are all the good fake leakers ?

Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

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