Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Accursed]

Smash could potentially totally revitalize it, which is why I wonder- why is Sakurai averse to adding more “dead series”? We could totally see Advance Wars, Golden Sun, and other series like that return if they appeared in Smash.

Sakurai was super busy making games in the early 2000s, so he probably didn't play many games from that era.

 

[N3ON]

Sakurai was super busy making games in the early 2000s, so he probably didn't play many games from that era.

Idk we've got content from other games from that era. Plus Sakurai is always super busy making games, he's actually falling apart.

Honestly I suspect actually playing Nintendo games is part of Smash development. I imagine he's paid to do it. Need to get your ideas somewhere.

 

[Calane]

I recently started playing "Dark Dawn" again and was reminded just how much I love the GS series. In my opinion, all three games are great and are some of the best JRPGs I've ever played (and that's saying something since it's my favorite genre). I don't think it matters much, but I just thought I'd hop in and say that I support Isaac for the new Smash. He's going to be sitting right alongside Takamaru and Ashley on my wish list. I believe I used to support him back in the Smash 4 days as well, but that's beside the point.

I'd be super happy if Isaac got a Matthew alt like Olimar and Alph, but that would be extremely unlikely to happen since every GS fan besides myself hates that game.

 

[Deleted member]

That's certainly a mouthful.

 

[Ura]

Sakurai was super busy making games in the early 2000s, so he probably didn't play many games from that era.

I mean I have to imagine Sakurai played a lot of Famicom Wars before it became Advance Wars in the 2000's so he must be very familiar with that franchise.

As for the other ones I think he might have an idea for some of them. IDK if he played Golden Sun or not though. He stated in Famitsu article that he's played a massive amount of games in his life so I would think he has.

That's certainly a mouthful.

Isaac saving inventory space like a G haha.

 

[SorrowOfAcheron]

I honestly just wish this Smash was full throttle on adding characters from series on their last legs or something like that.
Like there's so many Nintendo characters that could enjoy the popularity and potentially re-ignite there fire in some of those series.

I'd heard of Ayumi before but I only found out two days ago that she was considered for Melee; it blew my mind.
Imagine seeing a roster with Nintendo characters from all levels of popularity, it'd be so rich. That's how I picture an amazing Smash Bros game; not just the big names, but also everything in between. That's what screams 'NINTENDO' to me.

I'm going to be really sad if we just keep getting characters from the popular series in favor of that diversity.

Rant over.

 

[Metocles]

In a way, Nintendo almost needs it to happen. Not for nothing, but has anyone else even seen the Switch library? One of the most interesting things going into this Smash cycle is that it'll focus mostly on games during the Wii U era... basically 2014-2016. An era that had nothing substantial to it, to say the least, besides the old guard.

One of the major reasons is because a lot of their original ideas are being snuffed out in favor of forgettable filler-ware. Which I'm sorry to say is the Mario Sports line incarnate. I'm actually someone who really enjoys those games, so it pains me to say it too. Eventually games like Mario Tennis, Golf, Soccer, Party, Olympics gets tiring and hackneyed. The best Mario Party I played, for instance, were the earlier iterations. We know this directly cuts the head off Golden Sun development, but what does that also mean for some of the other original series?

Advance Wars gets stifled under Fire Emblem's bikini DLC. I guess what I'm trying to say is that too much of a good thing can be a bad thing.

 

[DogManStar]

In a way, Nintendo almost needs it to happen. Not for nothing, but has anyone else even seen the Switch library? One of the most interesting things going into this Smash cycle is that it'll focus mostly on games during the Wii U era... basically 2014-2016. An era that had nothing substantial to it, to say the least, besides the old guard.

One of the major reasons is because a lot of their original ideas are being snuffed out in favor of forgettable filler-ware. Which I'm sorry to say is the Mario Sports line incarnate. I'm actually someone who really enjoys those games, so it pains me to say it too. Eventually games like Mario Tennis, Golf, Soccer, Party, Olympics gets tiring and hackneyed. The best Mario Party I played, for instance, were the earlier iterations. We know this directly cuts the head off Golden Sun development, but what does that also mean for some of the other original series?

Advance Wars gets stifled under Fire Emblem's bikini DLC. I guess what I'm trying to say is that too much of a good thing can be a bad thing.

This Smash cycle not really having too many new major IPs to focus on gives me some hope that Sakurai will be able to reach back and add characters from old series that don't have any yet, like Isaac and Andy. I think we'll probably also see characters for series that don't have too many yet, like maybe a new Metroid character.

I hope they do this, since I do agree that pushing certain series too hard can make them lose steam a bit, so to speak. Revitalizing series like Golden Sun and Advance Wars could shake things up a bit and keep other series from becoming stale.

 

[Ura]

This Smash cycle not really having too many new major IPs to focus on gives me some hope that Sakurai will be able to reach back and add characters from old series that don't have any yet, like Isaac and Andy. I think we'll probably also see characters for series that don't have too many yet, like maybe a new Metroid character.

I hope they do this, since I do agree that pushing certain series too hard can make them lose steam a bit, so to speak. Revitalizing series like Golden Sun and Advance Wars could shake things up a bit and keep other series from becoming stale.

I don't want to sound like i'm grasping at straws (which I probably am anyways lol) but come to think of it there exists a slim chance of that actually happening.

I mean you look at the newcomer series pool from series not already in Smash and it's so thin right now. Splatoon was the one big omission in Smash 4 and now it's in this game's roster. The pool for that category is very low this time around.

Top that off with the fact that since Brawl there's always been one additional series added in to each roster more than the previous installment. I mean look at the trend of new series added in to Smash since Melee.

Melee:
Brawl:
Smash 4:

Even if the trend gets broken it's likely that we could still get the same amount of new series representation that we got in Smash 4. And if that were the case we could get something like...

- Splatoon
- Rhythm Heaven
- Advance Wars
- Golden Sun
- Takamaru (the retro character)

With that I think the roster would finally feel complete with all the significant Nintendo franchises in the game.

 

[Nauzgo]

Ura

You forgot the Miis as they should normally count as a new franchise, too. But besides that, that's what I also grow to think more of. Since there's that pretty small gap between the two Smash entries and most million sellers already included in the game besides Arms obviously, Golden Sun, Rhythm Heaven, Excite, and some casual games like Style Savvy, there's not many options for characters this time.

That's probably a good reason for bringing back smaller franchises in Smash which would make sense. The Switch is literally getting everything they have, there's only Animal Crossing as major IP left and some smaller things like Wario or Star Fox. Due to the enormous Switch success and the will to have a diverse offer of different games, Nintendo may dig out smaller franchises and what would be better pushing for them than an inclusion in Smash?

There's those you have named Ura, but also Chibi Robo, Custom Robo, Project Zero, Sin & Punishment, Dillon or Fossil Fighters.
As for retro fighters, there's also Mach Rider, Balloon Fighter and Mike Jones as bigger names left.
To be sincere, I would love any of them being playable. They just excite me a lot more than another Mario, Pokemon or Fire Emblem rep.

 

[Ura]

Ura

You forgot the Miis as they should normally count as a new franchise, too. But besides that, that's what I also grow to think more of. Since there's that pretty small gap between the two Smash entries and most million sellers already included in the game besides Arms obviously, Golden Sun, Rhythm Heaven, Excite, and some casual games like Style Savvy, there's not many options for characters this time.

That's probably a good reason for bringing back smaller franchises in Smash which would make sense. The Switch is literally getting everything they have, there's only Animal Crossing as major IP left and some smaller things like Wario or Star Fox. Due to the enormous Switch success and the will to have a diverse offer of different games, Nintendo may dig out smaller franchises and what would be better pushing for them than an inclusion in Smash?

There's those you have named Ura, but also Chibi Robo, Custom Robo, Project Zero, Sin & Punishment, Dillon or Fossil Fighters.
As for retro fighters, there's also Mach Rider, Balloon Fighter and Mike Jones as bigger names left.
To be sincere, I would love any of them being playable. They just excite me a lot more than another Mario, Pokemon or Fire Emblem rep.

Didn't include ARMS because I feel it's not making the base roster due to timing issues. It's a lock for DLC though.

TBH most of those series aren't that important or are dead much like AW/GS. The only difference here is that AW/GS are much more important to Nintendo's history than a Chibi-Robo (who's done thanks to Zip-Lash) and Custom Robo.

I guess you could make an argument for Dillion if his series continues to grow which looks to be the case.

 

[Organization XIII]

Didn't include ARMS because I feel it's not making the base roster due to timing issues. It's a lock for DLC though.

Unless the DLC is only 3rd parties and vets again

 

[Ura]

Unless the DLC is only 3rd parties and vets again

I think they could accommodate some Nintendo characters for advertisement purposes.

 

[Nauzgo]

Didn't include ARMS because I feel it's not making the base roster due to timing issues. It's a lock for DLC though.

TBH most of those series aren't that important or are dead much like AW/GS. The only difference here is that AW/GS are much more important to Nintendo's history than a Chibi-Robo (who's done thanks to Zip-Lash) and Custom Robo.

I guess you could make an argument for Dillion if his series continues to grow which looks to be the case.

Probably. Though it could be that the games was first built like an advanced port and after the Switch's huge success, Nintendo decided to make it its own game and delayed it so that there would be more time to add newer content. But that's pretty unlikely, yep.

True. Still, Chibi Robo made it twice onto the 3DS which AW/GS didn't. I never said that any of these franchises are very important, besides GS/AW/RH and Excite there's nothing left from that category. Games like Custom Robo are like the only reasonable despite small franchises left which says all because they are all pretty much dead as you said. And I believe the only leftout franchises to now which are million sellers are Rhythm Heaven, (Arms), GS, Excite and several casuals like Style Savvy. Besides maybe some retro games, as you don't really find data for them.

But if any, then Isaac has to be the first to join from the characters from dead series xD

 

[Arteen]

I really hope Nintendo dials back on the third-party characters. There are so many Nintendo franchises that could use the love instead.

 

[DogManStar]

I really hope Nintendo dials back on the third-party characters. There are so many Nintendo franchises that could use the love instead.

I wouldn't be surprised to see as many third-parties as we got last time, but I hope that's not the case. We already got so many great ones last time, that I think I would rather see more unappreciated Nintendo characters this time. I don't expect it to happen, but I would be pleasantly surprised to see that be the case.

 

[Organization XIII]

I wouldn't be surprised to see as many third-parties as we got last time, but I hope that's not the case. We already got so many great ones last time, that I think I would rather see more unappreciated Nintendo characters this time. I don't expect it to happen, but I would be pleasantly surprised to see that be the case.

I highly doubt it Sakurai sees this as a Nintendo first and foremost and is afraid of just putting in 3rd parties for the sake of it. No, we may get one or two more but we don't have to worry about 3rd parties dominating the roster.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh crap,i almost forgot to post today's comic!

This is the naked truth, ladies and gentlemen.

 

[_Sheik]

Unless the DLC is only 3rd parties and vets again

There was Corrin tbh

 

[Organization XIII]

There was Corrin tbh

He happened purely because Nintendo execs asked for a character for promotion. He's not a character he's a billboard with legs.

 

[Skyblade12]

Oh crap,i almost forgot to post today's comic!

This is the naked truth, ladies and gentlemen.

I always prioritized Mia over Ivan and Garet for armor anyway, so she wouldn't be wearing Garet's hand me downs.

 

[Organization XIII]

I always prioritized Mia over Ivan and Garet for armor anyway, so she wouldn't be wearing Garet's hand me downs.

I'm the exact same way since JRPG rule number one is always protect the healer.

 

[DogManStar]

He happened purely because Nintendo execs asked for a character for promotion. He's not a character he's a billboard with legs.

Corrin's inclusion made me lose a lot of hope that we would ever see characters like Isaac and Andy back when he was first revealed. I started feeling like Smash just existed to advertise games. I don't think this is entirely true now, but I do feel that characters probably won't be included if there's no money in it, and I don't think Nintendo sees any money in putting characters like that into Smash. Which is unfortunate, because I think these series could massively benefit from having characters in Smash, enough to probably see a revival.

 

[Metocles]

Corrin's inclusion made me lose a lot of hope that we would ever see characters like Isaac and Andy back when he was first revealed. I started feeling like Smash just existed to advertise games. I don't think this is entirely true now, but I do feel that characters probably won't be included if there's no money in it, and I don't think Nintendo sees any money in putting characters like that into Smash. Which is unfortunate, because I think these series could massively benefit from having characters in Smash, enough to probably see a revival.

Which would be a silly thing seeing as Golden Sun is hardly an un-lucrative franchise for Nintendo. Selling millions of copies for a first time handheld turn-based RPG is pretty difficult. If they actually put an A-Team on a Golden Sun 4, it would sell like hotcakes. Not only would Golden Sun benefit, but so would Nintendo. Dark Dawn didn't even do that terribly sales-wise for yet another handheld turn-based RPG in an RPG market that is increasingly moving away from that sort of combat. 810,000 units sold worldwide for a critically poor received game is hardly what I'd call a lost cause. Now Starfox Zero on the other hand....

 

[Skyblade12]

Which would be a silly thing seeing as Golden Sun is hardly an un-lucrative franchise for Nintendo. Selling millions of copies for a first time handheld turn-based RPG is pretty difficult. If they actually put an A-Team on a Golden Sun 4, it would sell like hotcakes. Not only would Golden Sun benefit, but so would Nintendo. Dark Dawn didn't even do that terribly sales-wise for yet another handheld turn-based RPG in an RPG market that is increasingly moving away from that sort of combat. 810,000 units sold worldwide for a critically poor received game is hardly what I'd call a lost cause. Now Starfox Zero on the other hand....

Heck, just put a good team on it, and then MARKET it. Directs and such. It would sell like crazy, if people just knew about it.

I think Nintendo's current marketing is brilliant. And there are a lot of their handheld games that never got the marketing they needed or released at a bad time and died because of it. Some of them have cult followings. Like The World Ends With You. These games CAN succeed. They just need another chance.

 

[Hydewell]

Which would be a silly thing seeing as Golden Sun is hardly an un-lucrative franchise for Nintendo. Selling millions of copies for a first time handheld turn-based RPG is pretty difficult. If they actually put an A-Team on a Golden Sun 4, it would sell like hotcakes. Not only would Golden Sun benefit, but so would Nintendo. Dark Dawn didn't even do that terribly sales-wise for yet another handheld turn-based RPG in an RPG market that is increasingly moving away from that sort of combat. 810,000 units sold worldwide for a critically poor received game is hardly what I'd call a lost cause. Now Starfox Zero on the other hand....

The numbers that we see in vgchartz aren't reliable. I wish Dark Dawn had sold 810k units, but probably it was much less. 810k were a really good number seeing the context: the DS was easily pirated and DD was one of the latest entry of the hardware. With that numbers, I'm sure we would have a new Golden Sun game.
For example, Metroid Samus Return, a high-acclaimed remake which has won several awards, it didn't reach 1m of sales, and the development of the game was a mess. Despite that, there are strongly rumors they are working in Metroid 5 thanks to the success of this game (basically, one guy who leaked years ago that one 2d Metroid game was in works and anticipated the reveal in the E3, suggested recently a new 2d metroid game was in an early stage of development).

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Corrin's inclusion made me lose a lot of hope that we would ever see characters like Isaac and Andy back when he was first revealed. I started feeling like Smash just existed to advertise games. I don't think this is entirely true now, but I do feel that characters probably won't be included if there's no money in it, and I don't think Nintendo sees any money in putting characters like that into Smash. Which is unfortunate, because I think these series could massively benefit from having characters in Smash, enough to probably see a revival.

I think the biggest thing that hurts "irrelevant" characters like Isaac and Ray is that their franchises didn't debut during the 80's and thus wouldn't be "retro" enough. If the roster truly was dictated by what serves Nintendo financially at current times, we wouldn't have seen the likes of Ice Climbers and ROB.

And whilst it's easy to argue that Game & Watch and ROB represents important parts of Nintendo history, you can't really say the same for the Ice Climbers or really any other characters from franchises considered for an NES "rep" back in Melee. I have no issues with retro characters, but you have to admit there is a double standard in terms of what Sakurai (who has the final say on the roster) considers to be old enough to be worth celebrating and what is simultaneously not new (or recent) enough to be worth celebrating, yet not old enough to be nostalgic enough.

And as we all know, people let Smash agenda dictate their mentality. Heck I even saw an argument in a different forum that Ice Climber was more important than Golden Sun.

That said, I found a great post by someone on a different thread highlighting this double standard of what is and isn't retro.

Ok so I'v finally caught up with this, and I know I missed the boat on this topic in particular but;

I'm ****ing laughing my head off at the fact that people too young to have even played these Retro' games are deciding what is and isn't 'retro' as if retro means naything more than 'nostalgic throwback to the world I grew up in'. The word is literally just short for 'retrospective'. Has it been co-opted to mean 80's? Some say yes if they grew up when the 80s kids doing retrospectives. Before them people would have said it referred to the 50s, then 60s, then 70s.

Does that make 80's any more 'retro' than 90s? No, guess what, there are people nostalgic for the 90s too. All these characters added in as throwbacks to the 80s aren't any more relevant than characters who are a throwback to the 90s simply because they're older. In fact we've reached the point where the demographic with the free time and expendable income are going to be nostalgic for GBA, late N64 and early GameCube. We've reached the time where some newly senior members of the Smash team are going to have fond memories of those from their childhood. Yes, Sakurai is still involved but he was already more hands off the development of 4 by the time they were releasing DLC. Nintendo itself has been making these changes with the up and coming design teams making their throwback references to the 90s (I mean...just look at Splatoon).

So I can't believe its such a popular sentiment that people genuinely think there's a mystical 'void area' of being so old they're obsolete but not old enough to be up for consideration again?

EDIT: Also we're long past the days of Smash being a 'Nintendo Museum'. When Snake gets added as a favour to a friend and we get Nintendo's most historic rival in one game then that concept itself is dying. The next has a character that has at best a cameo on Nintendo? And the number of 3rd parties is increasing at the same rate as 1st parties? Yeah, it's transcended that.

 

[Deleted member]

Golden Sun will be 20 years old in 2021, if that ain't retro i don't know what it is.

Anyway, comic time!

Friends don’t let friends sell creatures with mythical, mystical, and mysterious elemental powers.

 

[DogManStar]

I’ve seen a lot of people claim that Isaac had no support outside of North America. I had thought he was fairly popular internationally in the fanbase, though I wasn’t around for speculation before Smash 4 DLC to confirm that.

Anyone remember how popular he was across the board?

 

[Organization XIII]

I’ve seen a lot of people claim that Isaac had no support outside of North America. I had thought he was fairly popular internationally in the fanbase, though I wasn’t around for speculation before Smash 4 DLC to confirm that.

Anyone remember how popular he was across the board?

Well, he's popular enough in Japan I would say. According to Source Gaming's article on ballot data in Japan, he got 1.78% of the vote making him 19th most requested character. It's so far the best look into Smash for the East's perspective we have. Here's a link to the article if you wish to read it yourself
https://sourcegaming.info/2015/09/13/japantopdlcpt2/

 

[Hydewell]

I’ve seen a lot of people claim that Isaac had no support outside of North America. I had thought he was fairly popular internationally in the fanbase, though I wasn’t around for speculation before Smash 4 DLC to confirm that.

Anyone remember how popular he was across the board?

In the Spanish (and probably latinoamerica) scene he is very popular character. He often appears in the requested lists of the popular videogame magazines/websites and, normally, the comments who are asking for his presence are one of the high voted.

Some examples:

Nintenderos (a mix between spanish and latinoamerica people. Crowded by "casual gamers").
(2015): http://www.nintenderos.com/2015/05/...l-estos-son-vuestros-candidatos-a-smash-bros/
(2018): http://www.nintenderos.com/2018/04/...tenidos-a-partir-de-mas-de-10-000-respuestas/

Vandal (A more-focus Spanish website, probably the most popular right now in Spain in terms of videogames)
(2018): https://vandal.elespanol.com/reportaje/los-personajes-que-queremos-en-super-smash-bros-de-switch

Hobbyconsolas (Probably, the most popular videogame magazine in Spain and one of the oldest).
(2014: Who were left in the new Smash Bros): https://www.hobbyconsolas.com/noticias/quien-falta-super-smash-bros-86702

Obviously, the more time happen without his inclusion (or a new game), the less remembered he is.

I don't know how popular he's in the other countries of Europe (Germany, France and UK basically) but I can see him being more popular in Europe rather than North America. In Japan, on the other hand, is probably an obscure character.

 

[SorrowOfAcheron]

Hey, guys. Not really Isaac related but I got the trial version of Photoshop and have been messing around with it (and it's been messing around with me @_@) since I wanted to make palette swaps for some of my wanted characters.

Anyway I made this since it runs out in 6 days and I decided to get some GS art done before then.
Piers is my favorite character.

One thing I missed in Dark Dawn was how good the cover art was; bright lights, relating to the elements. The first two games' cover art is just amazing.
I hope they go for that style if we get a 4th game.

 

[DogManStar]

That's pretty neat, I like it. Agreed too, the cover art of the first two games is really great. I love the style.

Well, he's popular enough in Japan I would say. According to Source Gaming's article on ballot data in Japan, he got 1.78% of the vote making him 19th most requested character. It's so far the best look into Smash for the East's perspective we have. Here's a link to the article if you wish to read it yourself
https://sourcegaming.info/2015/09/13/japantopdlcpt2/

It might only be a fan poll but that seems reasonable enough. Plus, if Isaac really is more popular in Europe and North America, he could still get in. He's even in between two characters that did make it in on this poll.

Also, there was a Brawl-era poll that Sakurai had for Japanese suggestions where Isaac got multiple votes, and if Felix is counted, a Golden Sun character was one of the most wanted characters around that time.

https://smashboards.com/threads/characters-on-sakurais-poll.71872/

 

[Skyblade12]

I don't know what to think anymore. I mean, as an Assist Trophy, Isaac used Move. So we know that Sakurai is aware of his potential.

But he removed the Assist Trophy.

He seemed to have good ballot support, so Sakurai should be aware of his lasting popularity even without a recent game.

But he didn't get a costume.

The ballot is probably the most recent thing before the roster was finalized, so any support he received should have been fresh in Sakurai's mind and at his fingertips when designing the new game.

But we don't even know how many newcomers we'll get. Maybe Inklings and K. Rool are it (the costume makes me think K. Rool is basically confirmed for this game).

I just don't know.

 

[DogManStar]

I don't know what to think anymore. I mean, as an Assist Trophy, Isaac used Move. So we know that Sakurai is aware of his potential.

But he removed the Assist Trophy.

He seemed to have good ballot support, so Sakurai should be aware of his lasting popularity even without a recent game.

But he didn't get a costume.

The ballot is probably the most recent thing before the roster was finalized, so any support he received should have been fresh in Sakurai's mind and at his fingertips when designing the new game.

But we don't even know how many newcomers we'll get. Maybe Inklings and K. Rool are it (the costume makes me think K. Rool is basically confirmed for this game).

I just don't know.

I agree that K. Rool is basically confirmed; at this point, I would be more surprised not to see K. Rool. I'm not even a K. Rool supporter either. However, I don't think the mii costumes mean a character is for sure going to get into the game, I think they just mean that a character was really popular, and Sakurai saw no way to add them into the game. Heihachi was considered, but Sakurai couldn't think of a good way to implement him, so he got a costume. There were a pretty good amount of third-party costumes; these characters might not have been popular enough to win the ballot, or weren't as important as Ryu or Cloud, like Lloyd. There were also assist trophy costumes, like Takamaru and Ashley; these characters were popular, but since they were assist trophies, Sakurai could not implement them in the game, so he gives the fans a mii costume. Geno was popular, but he's not as important a character as any of the other third-party DLC characters, so Sakurai decided only to give the fans a mii costume. K. Rool getting a mii costume just means that Sakurai knew he was popular, but decided against adding him for some reason. Isaac might not have been as popular as K. Rool, but that doesn't deconfirm him yet.

As for the assist trophy, we don't really know why it's gone. Sakurai might have wanted to add Isaac as playable but ran out of time, or he may have been too complex for the 3DS, since the assist trophies move at 30 FPS, which might have made Move look a bit clunky with how the hitbox constantly moves. The reasoning behind the removal of the assist trophy is probably what will determine whether he becomes playable or not. I don't think Isaac was removed due to irrelevancy, otherwise Saki and the Infantry and Tanks would probably be gone too, as they're both from dormant series that originated around the same time.

 

[Skyblade12]

I agree that K. Rool is basically confirmed; at this point, I would be more surprised not to see K. Rool. I'm not even a K. Rool supporter either. However, I don't think the mii costumes mean a character is for sure going to get into the game, I think they just mean that a character was really popular. K. Rool getting a mii costume just means that Sakurai knew he was popular. Isaac might not have been as popular as K. Rool, but that doesn't deconfirm him yet.

As for the assist trophy, we don't really know why it's gone. Sakurai might have wanted to add Isaac as playable but ran out of time, or he may have been too complex for the 3DS, since the assist trophies move at 30 FPS, which might have made Move look a bit clunky with how the hitbox constantly moves. The reasoning behind the removal of the assist trophy is probably what will determine whether he becomes playable or not. I don't think Isaac was removed due to irrelevancy, otherwise Saki and the Infantry and Tanks would probably be gone too, as they're both from dormant series that originated around the same time.

My fear with the “removed because not enough time” is that they had extra time. There was DLC. If he was removed so he could be made playable, but they couldn’t finish him or something, wouldn’t he be a first early choice for DLC?

 

[Organization XIII]

My fear with the “removed because not enough time” is that they had extra time. There was DLC. If he was removed so he could be made playable, but they couldn’t finish him or something, wouldn’t he be a first early choice for DLC?

No, because there wasn't a single Nintendo newcomer added. For DLC they focused on who would sell, so we got veterans and 3rd parties. You can bring up Corrin but he was only in because executives asked Sakurai to add a character for advertising if it were only what Sakurai chose for DLC Corrin wouldn't be in the game.

 

[DogManStar]

My fear with the “removed because not enough time” is that they had extra time. There was DLC. If he was removed so he could be made playable, but they couldn’t finish him or something, wouldn’t he be a first early choice for DLC?

I don't really think so, DLC mostly seemed like characters that he thought would bring the most attention from general audiences. Returning veterans are exciting to anyone who's played Smash, because they're familiar with these characters and would enjoy seeing them return. Big name third-parties like Cloud and Ryu are exciting because of how important they are. Bayonetta won the ballot, so having that to her name makes her an interesting addition too. Corrin is really the only odd man out here, but we know why they existed- Sakurai had to have a promotional character.

I think characters like Isaac, that might have been considered for the base roster of Smash 4, wouldn't fit what Sakurai's vision for DLC seemed to be. Isaac wouldn't grab people's attention as much Cloud, or a character proclaimed as what fans wanted the most like Bayonetta was. Those characters, that Sakurai considered for the base roster but did not add, would probably be saved for future installments, maybe like how Wario was almost added to Melee but didn't get in until Brawl.

We also have some evidence to believe that a Rhythm Heaven character was considered, as datamining indicated. If they really were considered, I think Sakurai would have passed on them for DLC for the same reasons that he probably would have passed on Isaac had he actually considered Isaac for the base roster.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

I would like to see the Golden Sun Universe represented. The more NIWA wikis getting their characters in Smash, the better.

 

[DogManStar]

I would like to see the Golden Sun Universe represented. The more NIWA wikis getting their characters in Smash, the better.

The day we finally have both Advance Wars and Golden Sun represented in Smash will be the day that the Smash roster feels truly complete to me.