Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Ura]

The day we finally have both Advance Wars and Golden Sun represented in Smash will be the day that the Smash roster feels truly complete to me.

I second this.

I feel those are the only two significant franchises left that aren't on the roster. One could argue Rhythm Heaven as well but AW and GS are the most glaring omission IMO.

 

[Deleted member]

I should stop making stupid bets.

Anyway, Comic Time!

.........well, it seems the "Heart of the Goddess" can't take a joke at all.

 

[Skyblade12]

Is it possible to get all the best items without..."cheering"?

 

[ColietheGoalie]

Hello everyone,

I've got a thread called Convince Me!

Every few days a character gets featured and has a chance to be pitched to the general forum as a character for Smash Bros Switch. It's less about how good their chances are, and more about getting people excited for what a character could bring to the table, either moveset, history, or uniqueness-wise.

I've had Isaac on there for a few days, but not a lot of takers yet, so I thought I'd come right to the source and let you guys know that I'd love for anyone that has thoughts on him to post them in the thread.

You can find it here:
https://smashboards.com/threads/convince-me-april-12-isaac.453937/

 

[Skyblade12]

Hello everyone,

I've got a thread called Convince Me!

Every few days a character gets featured and has a chance to be pitched to the general forum as a character for Smash Bros Switch. It's less about how good their chances are, and more about getting people excited for what a character could bring to the table, either moveset, history, or uniqueness-wise.

I've had Isaac on there for a few days, but not a lot of takers yet, so I thought I'd come right to the source and let you guys know that I'd love for anyone that has thoughts on him to post them in the thread.

You can find it here:
https://smashboards.com/threads/convince-me-april-12-isaac.453937/

Well, that was easy.

If no one else posts, I may go back and cover personality or other aspects of the series later. Thanks for this. More visibility is always welcome.

 

[Jibblypuff_]

True Blue Warrior Put me on the supporting list, coach!

 

[FunAtParties]

Well, that was easy.

If no one else posts, I may go back and cover personality or other aspects of the series later. Thanks for this. More visibility is always welcome.

That was a really good write-up

 

[Skyblade12]

That was a really good write-up

Thanks.

And I didn’t even mention weapon unleashes.

Mostly because Isaac has too many other options. I can’t even work in everything I mentioned into one move set. Maybe mixed utility and attack Psynergy for basic and Smash attacks, with Djinn as specials could get most of the functions in one move set. But with Isaac, it’s always a question of “what do I leave out”, and weapon unleashes are that for me. There’s too much other unique stuff, and I feel Djinn and Psynergy represent him better.

I just really love the series. I want it back. Turn based JRPG with Zelda styles puzzles, fun and colorful characters, a deep world with incredible amounts of lore and history...

I just want more Golden Sun.


I wonder if we managed to convince ColietheGoalie

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Updated.

Spoiler

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[ColietheGoalie]

I wonder if we managed to convince ColietheGoalie

Quite impressed actually

I never realized how large his moveset pool actually was. I'd very much enjoy if he showed up in Smash I think.

 

[Deleted member]

Actual Psyenergy: Mother Read.

 

[Hydewell]

Has Camelot ever said something regarding the inclusion of Isaac in Smash? At least, the typical: Yeah, it would like it, or something like that.

They aren't really very fond of interviews from what I can see.

 

[SorrowOfAcheron]

Plot twist:
Camelot announces they're getting a Smash rep.

We get Golf Mario.

 

[Hydewell]

Or Waluigi...

 

[N3ON]

Has Camelot ever said something regarding the inclusion of Isaac in Smash? At least, the typical: Yeah, it would like it, or something like that.

They aren't really very fond of interviews from what I can see.

Don't recall Camelot ever speaking on Smash in any context. Then again, it's pretty rare you'll find a Nintendo team comment on Smash, it's usually Sakurai, someone doing PR, or third-parties and the like.

 

[LasermasterA]

Is it possible to get all the best items without..."cheering"?

I don't think so. Those gladiators are no joke, rushing like crazy lol.

Even with cheering, reaching the items on time is not extremely easy. Especially the last guy.

 

[DogManStar]

Or Waluigi...

All joking aside, I’m pretty sure that Waluigi will be the first Camelot character playable in Smash. Not even a supporter personally, he just seems fairly likely to me.

 

[Organization XIII]

I honestly don't think Waluigi will be added. Sakurai doesn't seem to take requests for Waluigi seriously at all.

 

[Jibblypuff_]

I honestly don't think Waluigi will be added. Sakurai doesn't seem to take requests for Waluigi seriously at all.

I'm in agreement. I think people are starting to think certain characters like Waluigi and Ridley are a lock because of their popularity when in reality I just don't think it's the case. People try to say things like "These are the most heavily requested, iconic characters that aren't already playable." as if it means something.

 

[N3ON]

People try to say things like "These are the most heavily requested, iconic characters that aren't already playable." as if it means something.

Specific characters aside, why would that not mean anything?

People also say that about Isaac.

 

[Arteen]

Plot twist:
Camelot announces they're getting a Smash rep.

We get Golf Mario.

We get Isaac.

But he takes the 260 character gold password to unlock.

 

[Jibblypuff_]

Specific characters aside, why would that not mean anything?

People also say that about Isaac.

I was going to add more to it but I got busy. Basically, I was trying to make the point that characters like Waluigi and Ridley have had fairly consistent reasons for not being included(From Sakurai)

 

[N3ON]

I was going to add more to it but I got busy. Basically, I was trying to make the point that characters like Waluigi and Ridley have had fairly consistent reasons for not being included(From Sakurai)

Gotcha

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I wonder if we'll get more Golden Sun content in Smash based off Isaac's (unknown) performance in the ballot?

 

[FlareHabanero]

I wonder if we'll get more Golden Sun content in Smash based off Isaac's (unknown) performance in the ballot?

Isaac should at least return as an Assist Trophy at the bare minimum.

Him being flat out missing is very strange.

 

[DogManStar]

Isaac should at least return as an Assist Trophy at the bare minimum.

Him being flat out missing is very strange.

Yeah, I'm not expecting much, but I will be very disappointed if he isn't even able to show up as an AT at the least.

 

[N3ON]

I wonder if we'll get more Golden Sun content in Smash based off Isaac's (unknown) performance in the ballot?

The return of the AT seems possible, but anything past that is probably contingent on him doing quite well.

Isaac should at least return as an Assist Trophy at the bare minimum.

Him being flat out missing is very strange.

I can only wonder what the reasoning was.

 

[Skyblade12]

The return of the AT seems possible, but anything past that is probably contingent on him doing quite well.


I can only wonder what the reasoning was.

We’re all hoping he was pulled to be made playable, but barely didn’t make the cut.

 

[N3ON]

We’re all hoping he was pulled to be made playable, but barely didn’t make the cut.

Yep that's one theory. Probably best case scenario...

 

[DogManStar]

Yep that's one theory. Probably best case scenario...

I've said it before in other places, but I don't see any other real reason that Isaac's assist trophy was being removed. I hate to be that optimistic, but none of the other reasons really make any sense.

- Relevancy: Advance Wars and Sin and Punishment still have assist trophies despite being series of about the same size or smaller of similar relevance. Both of them haven't had games in about 10 years. Isaac is still quite popular in the fanbase too. Being removed for relevance just doesn't make any sense.

- Complexity: On a surface level, Isaac's assist trophy doesn't look like anything that would push the 3DS to its limits. Maybe Ray MK III would have, since I don't think he was removed due to irrelevancy either, but Isaac's hand doesn't look too complex honestly. It could have easily been changed to reduce strain on the 3DS too; Saki's bullets were changed from being smaller and faster-firing to larger bullets on the 3DS, if you look closely.

These are the two big arguments I hear. I'm just not seeing Isaac being removed due to irrelevancy unless Sakurai was personally biased against Golden Sun, but I don't think that's really the case since the series did get a new song. Something just doesn't fit here.

 

[SorrowOfAcheron]

I don't think I've said this before, but I'm actually really confident about Isaac's chances this time around.
I think he's gonna make, that's what my gut is telling me.

The only problem for me now is that we have to go potentially ~2 months until we get any news.

 

[Skyblade12]

I don't think I've said this before, but I'm actually really confident about Isaac's chances this time around.
I think he's gonna make, that's what my gut is telling me.

The only problem for me now is that we have to go potentially ~2 months until we get any news.

For me, it still comes down to how many newcomers we get. And the longer we go with no news, the fewer newcomers there are likely to be.

If there were a ton of newcomers, the reveals would likely be all spaced out. If there's only a couple... Well, if we're right and release is in September with the paid online, we could be looking at as few as seven, I figure.

The Inklings.
3 at E3.
3 in a Smash Direct before release.

So, I've been trying to figure out the top most likely to get in.

1. Inklings (they're already confirmed)
2. K. Rool (say what you like, that costume and his ballot polling makes me think he's got a good chance)
3. Takamaru (I think Sakurai put him in as an AT to test reactions. He also got a costume, I think his shots are good)
4. Dixie Kong (Important member of a franchise that Nintendo is paying more and more attention to)
5. Ridley (He's STILL heavily requested)
6. Bandana Dee (By far most likely newcomer for a Kirby rep, and Kirby is still a huge franchise)
7. Elma (Her game came at the right time for choosing characters, a Xenoblade rep is not unreasonable, and the "mech with gun" toy Sakurai bought for reference could be for building her skell)
8. A Pokémon (Not sure which one, but we'll probably get one)
9. Waluigi (I'm not sure, but he does have a lot of fans, and might have had ballot support too)
10. Isaac

The thought that I can't build a team of ten obvious newcomers without including Isaac is heartening. But we'll probably have a WTF rep in there, and I could be wrong about who is likely. So I consider this list as actually being at least twelve characters long. And I don't know that we're getting twelve newcomers.

If I was making the list, I wouldn't be worried. But who would Sakurai axe if the project doesn't have as many newcomers as we'd like? Isaac might have been on the chopping block before (if his AT was pulled with the thought that he may be playable). He might get it again.

 

[Hydewell]

Don't recall Camelot ever speaking on Smash in any context. Then again, it's pretty rare you'll find a Nintendo team comment on Smash, it's usually Sakurai, someone doing PR, or third-parties and the like.

Oh, dang.
To be fair, none of their games were published near the release of any Smash entries. Maybe there was some interview in Japan but no one translated it xD

All joking aside, I’m pretty sure that Waluigi will be the first Camelot character playable in Smash. Not even a supporter personally, he just seems fairly likely to me.

If the newcomers of this game are chosen because of the ballot, I can't see Waluigi as a playable character. In that time he was an AT and people didn't consider him because of his status.

I've said it before in other places, but I don't see any other real reason that Isaac's assist trophy was being removed. I hate to be that optimistic, but none of the other reasons really make any sense.

- Relevancy: Advance Wars and Sin and Punishment still have assist trophies despite being series of about the same size or smaller of similar relevance. Both of them haven't had games in about 10 years. Isaac is still quite popular in the fanbase too. Being removed for relevance just doesn't make any sense.

- Complexity: On a surface level, Isaac's assist trophy doesn't look like anything that would push the 3DS to its limits. Maybe Ray MK III would have, since I don't think he was removed due to irrelevancy either, but Isaac's hand doesn't look too complex honestly. It could have easily been changed to reduce strain on the 3DS too; Saki's bullets were changed from being smaller and faster-firing to larger bullets on the 3DS, if you look closely.

These are the two big arguments I hear. I'm just not seeing Isaac being removed due to irrelevancy unless Sakurai was personally biased against Golden Sun, but I don't think that's really the case since the series did get a new song. Something just doesn't fit here.

Wars role as an AT is more linked to the NES era than its currently state (sadly). The only mentions of the Advace series characters were the stickers in Brawl...

I really think they didn't add Isaac as an AT because of his new design, tbh.

For me, it still comes down to how many newcomers we get. And the longer we go with no news, the fewer newcomers there are likely to be.

I just think they were tired of doing the marketing (even Sakurai complained about how hard it was). They can always do like they did with Brawl, but at a faster pace. It's not necessary to have a Nintendo direct to present a newcomer, or have a CGI trailer.

 

[Skyblade12]

Can you source that comment on the marketing for me?

 

[Hydewell]

Can you source that comment on the marketing for me?

Searching quickly in the net regarding sm4sh :
https://mynintendonews.com/2014/12/...e-day-series-comes-to-a-close/comment-page-1/

If I find more complaints/saying it was hard to do PotD, I'll edit the post.

 

[N3ON]

Well they're not not going to have marketing, that doesn't make sense. And while the CGI trailers might be more costly, they're less work for Sakurai and the Smash team than a daily update feature, as the CGI gets outsourced. They'll probably have fewer trailers if only because the time span between reveal and release is super truncated compared to normal, but they must be sitting on at least a few more. Advertising is pretty crucial for a blockbuster product.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I do hope the ratio of starting-to-unlockable newcomer characters is more even like it was for Melee. If we get, say, 12 or more newcomers, I feel only 7 of them should be revealed pre-release.

 

[smileMasky]

So I Just got goldensun on the GBA and oh boy

I love the whole Djinn>Summon>Rest Mechanic its rather very interesting. It could totally work for Isaac's move set it did work for the villager so why not?

Count me in as a supporter now!

 

[Skyblade12]

So I Just got goldensun on the GBA and oh boy

I love the whole Djinn>Summon>Rest Mechanic its rather very interesting. It could totally work for Isaac's move set it did work for the villager so why not?

Count me in as a supporter now!

See? Only problem with Golden Sun is that not enough people have played it.

 

[DogManStar]

See? Only problem with Golden Sun is that not enough people have played it.

Golden Sun was fairly popular back during the GBA days though, I thought? I can't personally confirm since I wasn't around for those days, but I've heard people say that before.

Nowadays though, I definitely agree. Lots of people haven't played Golden Sun. Though I have known a few people who don't follow Smash news that played Dark Dawn and enjoyed it.