Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[StormC]

The thing with Pokemon is I doubt we get a "fan favorite" without the obligatory new gen mascot. TPC is pretty controlling over how Pokemon are portrayed in Smash (they won't even let them have their shiny forms), I don't see them allowing Gardevoir or something as a playable fighter without first saying "okay, but only if you put in an Alola Pokemon."

I've had doubts too whether or not we would get a new Pokemon since E3, but I think Pokemon is such a massive franchise (it makes more money than Star Wars) that it could easily be the exception to the rule of "fan favorite characters."

 

[Organization XIII]

Actually um why wouldn't TPC want Smash to have their shiny forms? That makes 0 sense. You'd think they'd be all over making Pokemon as faithful as possible.

 

[StormC]

Actually um why wouldn't TPC want Smash to have their shiny forms? That makes 0 sense. You'd think they'd be all over making Pokemon as faithful as possible.

I couldn't tell you, but if I had to guess, they want the Pokemon to be marketable in very specific ways, and perhaps having playable shiny forms in Smash would dilute the significance and rarity of shiny Pokemon in the normal games.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I couldn't tell you, but if I had to guess, they want the Pokemon to be marketable in very specific ways, and perhaps having playable shiny forms in Smash would dilute the significance and rarity of shiny Pokemon in the normal games.

As a pokemon fan, that makes zero sense. Since Shinies are easier to obtain NOW than ever before.

If people are expecting a Retro character I don’t think they should be. As we’ve already gotten an NES retro character in Simon Belmont. Complete with awkward animations of the NES era to boot.
.

Oh yeah, forgot Simon was on the NES.
RIP Mike Jones.

 

[StormC]

As a pokemon fan, that makes zero sense. Since Shinies are easier to obtain NOW than ever before.

It's still much harder than putting Smash into your console, selecting a Pokemon character, and toggling through a few colors.

Again, I can't say why. I can only speculate. But it's clear they don't want shinies as part of their marketing for Pokemon in Smash.

 

[Arteen]

I was looking through my old Golden Sun pictures folder on my computer and found this:

Spoiler

The newcomer Smash needs.

 

[Black Magician]

Speaking of alternate colours, Isaac should have a palette swap for each of the 7 other main characters from GS/LA. Unless Felix is in, in which case the 8th palette should be Dark Isaac, who can then become a second echo fighter in Smash 6.

 

[alguidrag]

so... no news for now? just Speculation?

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I created my own list of characters I "expect". (I don't entirely expect them, I just think they're the ones that are starting to make the most sense based on the way things are going....I also don't expect all of them) Though it's largely based on the exit poll so I could be off. There probably isn't enough echo fighters but I honestly couldn't tell you what other characters are likely as echo fighters.

Base:

Isaac
Banjo & Kazooie
Bandana Dee
7th gen Pokemon
Paper Mario (I think people could be sleeping on Paper Mario, we have three Links now after all)
Geno
Skull Kid (I'm in two minds about whether he's happening or not, he could just be a boss.

Echoes:

Isabelle
Dixie Kong
Shadow
Felix (maybe, if Sakurai is looking to pad out the echoes I could see him doubling down on Golden Sun)
Impa (honestly not sure I think it could go either way, I'd actually predict us to get Skyward Sword Impa if we also get Skull Kid as playable. With the way each Zelda character is representing a different game I think it makes sense)

DLC:

Anyone in the above list who doesn't make base roster (that might depend on how many miss out on the base roster though)
Rex & Pyra
Rayman
Shantae (If she isn't an assist trophy. I was kinda dismissive of her at first but if that exit poll is correct she's the number one female fighter requested and since Wayforward actively campaigned for her inclusion there's no way they would say no if Sakurai asked. The only thing that could damage her is I'm not sure if she has much popularity in Japan)
Spring Man (I'm not convinced an Arms rep is a lock though)

Echoes:
Ribbon Girl (I could see her packaged with a Spring Man dlc if we happen to get an Arms rep)

I don't really see dlc focusing on echoes much, but Ribbon Girl could be an exception. I'm not sure if we'll get many dlc characters though honestly. I'd expect somewhere between 3-5. Not as many as we got for the last Smash game.

So long story short. I find it hard to really cut down on this list. It feels like there's still a lot of possibilities floating about. At least Isaac is on more of a level playing field with these guys now. So that's something.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I was looking through my old Golden Sun pictures folder on my computer and found this:

Spoiler

The newcomer Smash needs.

#ANTLION4SMASH

 

[Blue7113]

Hi! I always read smashboards but since english its not my first languaje I never registered.

I'm always on this thread because Isaac is my most wanted newcomer. And I was reading now that someone was asking about loz18's tweet about Isaac and I took an screenshot that day becuase I comment it with my friends. Hope you find it useful

You’re the only I’ve seen with this good job dude. Your English is pretty good, so don’t worry about that

 

[Johnknight1]

Felix as an Echo or Alt discussions: The real question to ask ourselves is if he has enough personality to differentiate as an echo with animations and whatnot. I'd say he does, personally.

Yep! He had totally different animations in Golden Sun 2 and also had a different fighting style as well while being very similar.

Only problem is he's a tad taller than Isaac (but Marth is also a tad taller than Lucina in Smash 4).

 

[Thirdkoopa]

While he does have a sword, I'm gonna be real: He'll probably use his sword MORE than he does in-game.? Like, upon replaying, I remembered how useless spamming the attack button is lol.

Yep! He had totally different animations in Golden Sun 2 and also had a different fighting style as well while being very similar.

Only problem is he's a tad taller than Isaac (but Marth is also a tad taller than Lucina in Smash 4).

Yeah; it's been a while since I've played The Lost Age. Replaying through the first one - At the first lighthouse!

 

[Pwnapplez]

(I apologize for double post, mods, I use my phone and not entirely sure how to edit and add a quote feel free to merge it with my above post)

If people are expecting a Retro character I don’t think they should be. As we’ve already gotten an NES retro character in Simon Belmont. Complete with awkward animations of the NES era to boot.

As for Pokemon. Eh. Since fan desires is obviously playing a huge part in this Smash I don’t think Decidueye is gonna make it. the fan base around it is... not entirely vocal compared to other characters and people only expect it because it’s a Gen 7 relavent Pokemon, and relevancy has been thrown out the window this time around. Heck, I’d expect Gardevoir over Decidueye or Inciniroar.

As for Namco rep. The only one people would be happy with is Lloyd Irving. And yeah, there’s still a chance... but do we really want him? I mean the only thing that makes his different than other sword users is the fact that he has two swords... ooooooh~ At least Isaac has magic to differentiate him.

Exactly, Simon fills in the Nes spot
(You can say the same for Ridley)
K Rule is the SNES
Now we just need that GBA spot

I think I know who would fit best

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Yep! He had totally different animations in Golden Sun 2 and also had a different fighting style as well while being very similar.

Only problem is he's a tad taller than Isaac (but Marth is also a tad taller than Lucina in Smash 4).

Isn't Peach a bit taller than Daisy in Ultimate? (or the other way around)

I don't think a slight difference in height would be an issue.

 

[SonicLink125]

Speaking of alternate colours, Isaac should have a palette swap for each of the 7 other main characters from GS/LA. Unless Felix is in, in which case the 8th palette should be Dark Isaac, who can then become a second echo fighter in Smash 6.

The idea I had was that Isaac would have 4 colors for his group from the first game and the other 4 would be a Matthew alt. Then Felix would have all 8 colors of his group since the second half of the game, you have 8 party members.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Exactly, Simon fills in the Nes spot
(You can say the same for Ridley)
K Rule is the SNES
Now we just need that GBA spot

I think I know who would fit best

Now that i think about it, Yeah. It sounds like some pattern.

Simon - NES
K Rool - SNES
Saki/CR/Banjo Kazooie - N64
Isaac - GBA
Lol i wish.

 

[?!?!?!]

For the base roster, I'm guessing we get 4 unique:
1-isaac
2-geno
3-bandana dee
4-skull kid(?) or maybe a gen 7 pokemon like decidueye

and 4 echo:
1-shadow
2-isabelle
3-dixie
4-felix

and dlc would have BK, rex/pyra, Lloyd and an arms character

 

[Pwnapplez]

The idea I had was that Isaac would have 4 colors for his group from the first game and the other 4 would be a Matthew alt. Then Felix would have all 8 colors of his group since the second half of the game, you have 8 party members.

Isaac could have color alts of Garet Ivan Mia Saturos Menardi Matthew and maybe the wise one?
Felix would have Jenna, Sheba, Piers, Karst, Agaito, Kraden ,Alex

With the E3 demo not having the medal ridley skin maybe characters also have one hidden skin?

Felix with his mask and maybe OLDER ****ING ISAAC!

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Isaac could have color alts of Garet Ivan Mia Saturos Menardi Matthew and maybe the wise one?
Felix would have Jenna, Sheba, Piers, Karst, Agaito, Kraden ,Alex

With the E3 demo not having the medal ridley skin maybe characters also have one hidden skin?

Felix with his mask and maybe OLDER ****ING ISAAC!

Pft. Don't get too excited. We don't know if he;s in the game.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Isaac could have color alts of Garet Ivan Mia Saturos Menardi Matthew and maybe the wise one?
Felix would have Jenna, Sheba, Piers, Karst, Agaito, Kraden ,Alex

There's also the possibility of having alt colour palettes based on Dark Dawn team members.

An Isaac/Felix alt of Karis with green hair would be pretty cool.

 

[?!?!?!]

Isaac could have color alts of Garet Ivan Mia Saturos Menardi Matthew and maybe the wise one?
Felix would have Jenna, Sheba, Piers, Karst, Agaito, Kraden ,Alex

Felix with a Kraden alt? Hell yeah I'd be down to have an old man Felix LOL

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Don't get too hyped for color alts. I know the team's been better about them, but we'd be lucky just to get color references of the main party.

 

[Pwnapplez]

Pft. Don't get too excited. We don't know if he;s in the game.

Haha, oh I know. I have my doubts about Isaac (sadly they outweight the pros) but with so much optimism in this forum and the fact that right now Isaac is the top wanted newcomer you got to get exited!

I would kill for an older Isaac look.
Dark Dawn should of stuck with the main cast

They did Mia's kids dirty

However I like Amiti, so much more could of been done

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Don't get too hyped for color alts. I know the team's been better about them, but we'd be lucky just to get color references of the main party.

Remember that we don't know accurate or how passionate about golden sun.

While alot of the team loves castlevania, we don't know if they like Golden Sun.

(Though, Motoi most definitely.)

Haha, oh I know. I have my doubts about Isaac (sadly they outweight the pros) but with so much optimism in this forum and the fact that right now Isaac is the top wanted newcomer you got to get exited!

I would kill for an older Isaac look.
Dark Dawn should of stuck with the main cast

They did Mia's kids dirty

However I like Amiti, so much more could of been done

Again, don't get /too/ hyped. Lower your expectations so that sakurai can hopefully surpass them.

 

[JaidynReiman]

While he does have a sword, I'm gonna be real: He'll probably use his sword MORE than he does in-game.? Like, upon replaying, I remembered how useless spamming the attack button is lol.


Yeah; it's been a while since I've played The Lost Age. Replaying through the first one - At the first lighthouse!

He'll probably have a basic combo string that maybe could end in an unleash, and a few other sword attacks strewn about his moveset, but I do think most of his moves will be made up of psynergy. Unleashes could either be smashes, at the end of his main combo string, or just not used at all.

Otherwise I'm definitely calling psynergy for most standard attacks, potentially his smashes, and his specials will either be psynergy or djinn. But he could use a sword for Flint as well, obviously.



In terms of alt colors I would expect no more than the colors of teammates.

 

[Eagle]

I've been hammering away at The Lost Age for a bit now and I'm becoming more and more attached to Felix. Originally I only cared for Isaac, but damn would it be so awesome to have them both.

Regarding alt colors, a palette for each party member would be great. If Felix got in, I'm not sure what a good substitute may be. Not a fan of the dark palette that the Links use, I'd love something more light/holy. A Matthew alt would be fantastic as well but we'd already be spoilt enough if Felix got in.

Por si acaso, para nuestros amigos de habla español: el verbo frasal 'to hammer away' = para hacer una tarea constantemente. (Estoy tratando escribir mas para practicar.)

 

[Organization XIII]

Banjo & Kazooie
Bandana Dee
7th gen Pokemon
Paper Mario (I think people could be sleeping on Paper Mario, we have three Links now after all)

Well, it's not him being Mario that's the issue it's that he's not Mario that's the problem. All the Links share the same moveset pretty much but Paper Mario wouldn't be anything like standard Mario so he's a much more time-consuming addition. Now we do have 2 unique Samuses and two unique Zeldas but those literally came in as one character when they were introduced. Now, of course, he could still do it but the biggest issue is I think Sakurai views SMRPG as the RPG for Mario. I mean Mario doesn't have any references to his RPG counterparts, he's talked about Geno, and the most PM has gotten is a stage which Sakurai lumped in with Mario instead of denoting as it's own series. I love Paper Mario and he's my next most wanted after Banjo and Isaac but I sadly don't see it happening. I somehow get all three and I will be an emotional wreck from hype overload.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Well, it's not him being Mario that's the issue it's that he's not Mario that's the problem. All the Links share the same moveset pretty much but Paper Mario wouldn't be anything like standard Mario so he's a much more time-consuming addition. Now we do have 2 unique Samuses and two unique Zeldas but those literally came in as one character when they were introduced. Now, of course, he could still do it but the biggest issue is I think Sakurai views SMRPG as the RPG for Mario. I mean Mario doesn't have any references to his RPG counterparts, he's talked about Geno, and the most PM has gotten is a stage which Sakurai lumped in with Mario instead of denoting as it's own series. I love Paper Mario and he's my next most wanted after Banjo and Isaac but I sadly don't see it happening. I somehow get all three and I will be an emotional wreck from hype overload.

If the exit poll is any indication then Sakurai might consider Paper Mario a worthy addition as a unique fighter. (I mean being 3rd/4th in both US/EU and Japan wouldn't be anything to sniff at) I don't think it's impossible by any means.

I think people are really underestimating Paper Mario.

(Also isn't the fact that there's even a Paper Mario a stage a sign that Sakurai does care about the series? I don't see how not giving it a unique symbol should change anything. I don't expect Geno to get a unique symbol if he gets in either)

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Well, it's not him being Mario that's the issue it's that he's not Mario that's the problem. All the Links share the same moveset pretty much but Paper Mario wouldn't be anything like standard Mario so he's a much more time-consuming addition. Now we do have 2 unique Samuses and two unique Zeldas but those literally came in as one character when they were introduced. Now, of course, he could still do it but the biggest issue is I think Sakurai views SMRPG as the RPG for Mario. I mean Mario doesn't have any references to his RPG counterparts, he's talked about Geno, and the most PM has gotten is a stage which Sakurai lumped in with Mario instead of denoting as it's own series. I love Paper Mario and he's my next most wanted after Banjo and Isaac but I sadly don't see it happening. I somehow get all three and I will be an emotional wreck from hype overload.

I one thing i noticed is the same problem i have with Pyra/Rex. Speed.

Paper Mario has very slow speed, but that's mostly because the first two games were made for beginners.

And rendering and animating a Flat piece of paper is probably a lot more time consuming than animating Mr. Game and Watch.

I could be wrong, but i think those two thing hold him back.

 

[Pwnapplez]

Remember that we don't know accurate or how passionate about golden sun.

While alot of the team loves castlevania, we don't know if they like Golden Sun.

(Though, Motoi most definitely.)



Again, don't get /too/ hyped. Lower your expectations so that sakurai can hopefully surpass them.

Haha don't worry my expectations are low. I expect to watch the next direct and be let down as 6000 people upload their reaction screaming that Geno got it and never played SMRPG but just know that screaming for Geno will get the $$$

Same went with Simon.

It's so great tho to see such a big gap in a generation of Nintendo fans

Growing up with the SNES the current roaster is like my dream as a kid.

When Shulk got in smash 4 I was like who?
Xeno was such a hidden game.

So many new Nintendo fans are happy with the Inkings.

I feel thats why Bandana Dee is so popular, he is someone newer compared to Geno and Isaac. Same goes for Ashley fans (even though a majority of them like Ashley because she is a child, however, that is another argument for another time)

I doubt the majorty shantae fans played her original game, they got into her via the 2010 indie game

Geno is from my generation (Skull Kid too but his hype was only due to the Loz leak and the chairs) so I will be very happy to see him

However Isaac takes the cake.

To me it looks like the bottom of the voting ballot is becoming AT and the top are becoming fighters
I wonder where the cut off is.

 

[Kirbyfan391]

If people are expecting a Retro character I don’t think they should be. As we’ve already gotten an NES retro character in Simon Belmont. Complete with awkward animations of the NES era to boot.

By that logic wouldn't Mega Man have been the NES retro character in Smash 4? Yet we still got Duck Hunt (Duo).

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Haha don't worry my expectations are low. I expect to watch the next direct and be let down as 6000 people upload their reaction screaming that Geno got it and never played SMRPG but just know that screaming for Geno will get the $$$

Same went with Simon.

It's so great tho to see such a big gap in a generation of Nintendo fans

Growing up with the SNES the current roaster is like my dream as a kid.

When Shulk got in smash 4 I was like who?
Xeno was such a hidden game.

So many new Nintendo fans are happy with the Inkings.

I feel thats why Bandana Dee is so popular, he is someone newer compared to Geno and Isaac. Same goes for Ashley fans (even though a majority of them like Ashley because she is a child, however, that is another argument for another time)

I doubt the majorty shantae fans played her original game, they got into her via the 2010 indie game

Geno is from my generation (Skull Kid too but his hype was only due to the Loz leak and the chairs) so I will be very happy to see him

However Isaac takes the cake.

To me it looks like the bottom of the voting ballot is becoming AT and the top are becoming fighters
I wonder where the cut off is.

I'm not sure there is a cutoff.

But if there is a cutoff in terms of new characters, it's either on Simon or below simon. That's my guess.

What’s the difference between PM and G&W?

How G&W works is that he has a 3d model, it's just invisable. Call it a property if you will. Basically, there's an image in the middle of this model, and it changes deending on the situation and the moveset. But it always stays still, and it's mostly animated pretty weakly.

Paper Mario, meanwhile, has to be animated like he's a moving piece of paper. Which is a lot more diffcult than most realize.

Getting the weight of Paper Mario could also prove to be OP since his Hammer is pretty deadly.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I one thing i noticed is the same problem i have with Pyra/Rex. Speed.

Paper Mario has very slow speed, but that's mostly because the first two games were made for beginners.

And rendering and animating a Flat piece of paper is probably a lot more time consuming than animating Mr. Game and Watch.

I could be wrong, but i think those two thing hold him back.

What’s the difference between PM and G&W?

And Simon is originally pretty slow, but he was sped up for Smash. Sakurai’s faithful, but he knows when to change things.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

What’s the difference between PM and G&W?

And Simon is originally pretty slow, but he was sped up for Smash. Sakurai’s faithful, but he knows when to change things.

Simon's speed is quite fast compared to his original counterpart, but Paper mario's pacing overall would need to be overhauled in order to make him suitable for a fighting game.

I think there is some confusion over retro characters.

Melee, Brawl, and 4 introduced two types of retro characters each.

Nintendo characters primarily associated with the NES, with possibly a sequel or two, but still mostly "retro":
Characters based on retro hardware from the NES or before it:

I don't expect we will get these types of characters in Ultimate.

Who knows. They could appear, they could not. It depends on how much time was given to create new characters.

 

[StormC]

I think there is some confusion over retro characters.

Melee, Brawl, and 4 introduced two types of retro characters each.

Nintendo characters primarily associated with the NES, with possibly a sequel or two, but still mostly "retro":
Characters based on retro hardware from the NES or before it:

I don't expect we will get these types of characters in Ultimate.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

I made this for fun

 

[Pwnapplez]

I made this for fun

I always love the sad look on the no

I think there is some confusion over retro characters.

Melee, Brawl, and 4 introduced two types of retro characters each.

Nintendo characters primarily associated with the NES, with possibly a sequel or two, but still mostly "retro":
Characters based on retro hardware from the NES or before it:

I don't expect we will get these types of characters in Ultimate.

Hey you never know, we could be getting Kung-Fu Master. Sakurai can pretty much do anything

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I made this for fun

POST THAT ON REDDIT OR THE GOLDEN SUN REDDIT FORUM. LMAO.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

I always love the sad look on the no


Hey you never know, we could be getting Kung-Fu Master. Sakurai can pretty much do anything

It's the face of despair !