Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[SonicLink125]

Even when he said we shouldn't expect too many new fighters he threw 3 unique (ridley included) and 3 echo fighters at us.

Personally I think Sakurai wants us to have low expectations so that he can surprise us with his announcements.

Usually, the best way to sell something is "Under promise, over deliver." And that's what it looks like Sakurai is doing with this Smash.

 

[Organization XIII]

I took a glance at that Reddit pie chart that showcases standing amongst "survivors", and here's my personal opinions regarding the Top 20.

Micaiah: Unfortunately, know little to nothing.
Viridi: Reset Bomb Forest deconfirmed her in my eyes. Plus, Medusa deserves it WAY more than her.
Prof. Layton: Probable, but considering another Level 5 character is in this thin, we may have to go give it to the cat.
Shadow: Obvious Sonic Echo, but the problem is Shadow plays EXACTLY like Sonic, so what would make him more than just a random skin?
Arle Nadja: Probably unlikely.
Phoenix Wright: Personally, given that I dislike Ace Attorney in general due to it feeling stupid, I'd actually would put Wright in my "Do Not Want" list.
Jibanyan: Assumin that the game was organized during the height of Yo-Kai Watch's popularity in Japan, it's likely Jibanyan will be in Smash Bros.. Though I'd love to play him, in reality, he's more likely to be an Assist Trophy.
Custom Robo: Doubtful will return.
Sora: Another "Do Not Want" character.
Captain Toad: New Donk City Hall kinda deconfirmed him, apparently.
Rayman: A guy I do want in Smash Bros. badly, given how the studio who makes Rayman games would literally work for free just to put him in there
Wonder Red: Given how 101 flopped, I doubt it.
Dixie Kong: Very likely a Diddy Kong Echo.
Magalor: Popular in Japan, but considering Bandanna Dee on the list, I'd give it to the spear fellow.
Geno: This one is rather litigious given the circumstances, but considering all the stars have aligned for him, why the hell not? Super Mario RPG essentially broke the door down for JRPGs to be liked in the West.
Shantae: Most likely an Assist Trophy, not unlike Shovel Knight.
Paper Mario: No appearance besides regular trophy.
Bandanna Dee: If Kirby gets a fourth character, it would most likely be him.
Banjo & Kazooie: Things definitely look good for the Bear and Breegull, and could pave the way for more Microsoft fighters.
Isaac: No prizes for guessing how I feel about him.

So, based upon that Reddit pie chart, out of the 20 top, I got 2 deconfirmed, 6 unlikely, 2 I absolutely want nothing to do with, one I don't have an opinion on, and 9 that have a puncher's chance with 2 almost guaranteed due to Echo Fighters.

As for the remaining seven "potentials", I see Jibanyan & Shantae being in as Assist Trophies in spite of having enough moveset potential to be fighters (Jibanyan may be stretching it, but considering we're looking at OG Jibanyan here, he'd likely be a comedy fighter with plenty of his Specials being from the Busters/Blasters spin-off series), and Rayman, Geno, Bandanna Dee, & Isaac as base fighters with Banjo & Kazooie as DLC.

Ok well about Shadow, Richter is also a glorified skin and that's what gave a lot of us hope for Felix so he wouldn't need any variation to be an echo.

 

[Istry555]

This is something that has bothered me.
Sakurai said this.

"I'm kinda hoping you weren't expecting too many new challengers."

Too many? How much is too many? Perhaps he's referring to how many newcomers were in Smash 4. There were /a lot/ of new challengers in smash 4.

But maybe the number is between Brawl and 4?

melee and Brawl?

And even the argument for "Sakurai said there was going to be only a few more characters announced later" is debatable.

"We plan on announcing every fighter in the game."

"We plan to announce a few more later..."

Look at the wording. "Few more later."

That's a pretty vague plan. Are you planning doing a few more, and that's it? Or is Sakurai going to a few more later, THEN announce another few later on?

Then again, this is me speculating.

I'm worried about the "not too many newcomers" thing as well. Personally, I think we only have about 2-3 new fighters left (echoes are not counted as they're basically just glorified alt costumes).

Problem is, I think this just might cut out Isaac. See, I've always felt Isaac would have gotten into the game except when his game was big there were still too many more important characters to add. Brawl still needed Wario, Dedede, etc. I feel it's happening again here where Isaac would have gotten into Ultimate, but there just aren't enough spots; if there's only 2-3 more and Skull Kid is all but confirmed and there's always a Pokemon rep (sigh, can't we skip a new Pokemon this time?), there's also usually a retro rep, I feel at least one more 3rd party is also very likely probably from Namco, so maybe there really isn't much room for Isaac. So, maybe our best chance is DLC after all, but then last time DLC was mostly just used for 3rd parties (because they probably sell the most) and to advertise future games. Sorry, didn't mean to be a downer. I just want to be realistic and not get my hopes up for the 3rd time he could've been in Smash.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Custom Robo: Doubtful will return.

As big of a CR fanboy as i am, i don't think he'll probably be a fighter.

Though, being in #23 worldwide is still pretty impressive, especially for a series with 2 games localized outside of Japan.

I could see his AT return. But that's just me.

I'm worried about the "not too many newcomers" thing as well. Personally, I think we only have about 2-3 new fighters left (echoes are not counted as they're basically just glorified alt costumes).

Problem is, I think this just might cut out Isaac. See, I've always felt Isaac would have gotten into the game except when his game was big there were still too many more important characters to add. Brawl still needed Wario, Dedede, etc. I feel it's happening again here where Isaac would have gotten into Ultimate, but there just aren't enough spots; if there's only 2-3 more and Skull Kid is all but confirmed and there's always a Pokemon rep (sigh, can't we skip a new Pokemon this time?), there's also usually a retro rep, I feel at least one more 3rd party is also very likely probably from Namco, so maybe there really isn't much room for Isaac. So, maybe our best chance is DLC after all, but then last time DLC was mostly just used for 3rd parties (because they probably sell the most) and to advertise future games. Sorry, didn't mean to be a downer. I just want to be realistic and not get my hopes up for the 3rd time he could've been in Smash.

Honestly, i think he'll still get in as an AT.

And as long as Isaac is in the game, i'm happy.

(Thank ya mods.)

 

[Pwnapplez]

I'm worried about the "not too many newcomers" thing as well. Personally, I think we only have about 2-3 new fighters left (echoes are not counted as they're basically just glorified alt costumes).

Problem is, I think this just might cut out Isaac. See, I've always felt Isaac would have gotten into the game except when his game was big there were still too many more important characters to add. Brawl still needed Wario, Dedede, etc. I feel it's happening again here where Isaac would have gotten into Ultimate, but there just aren't enough spots; if there's only 2-3 more and Skull Kid is all but confirmed and there's always a Pokemon rep (sigh, can't we skip a new Pokemon this time?), there's also usually a retro rep, I feel at least one more 3rd party is also very likely probably from Namco, so maybe there really isn't much room for Isaac. So, maybe our best chance is DLC after all, but then last time DLC was mostly just used for 3rd parties (because they probably sell the most) and to advertise future games. Sorry, didn't mean to be a downer. I just want to be realistic and not get my hopes up for the 3rd time he could've been in Smash.

And if they cut out isaac we fight for him in dlc.

Unless he is an AT we still got a shot

 

[?!?!?!]

And if they cut out isaac we fight for him in dlc.

Unless he is an AT we still got a shot

It's weird though, I've looked at some of the threads for the deconfirmed characters and they seem to be trying to campaign for their character as dlc....

 

[alguidrag]

It's weird though, I've looked at some of the threads for the deconfirmed characters and they seem to be trying to campaign for their character as dlc....

Because they want they character playable, and with killable AT they think they can promote to fighters

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Because they want they character playable, and with killable AT they think they can promote to fighters

They could be fighters next game.

As DLC though?

*winces*

 

[iam8bit]

I honestly think the chance of seeing a character in Ultimate go from NPC to DLC character is pretty slim.

I'm hoping for playable Isaac or no AT as the 2nd best option, so that a DLC campaign is more realistic. All or nothing, baby!

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I honestly think the chance of seeing a character in Ultimate go from NPC to DLC character is pretty slim.

I'm hoping for playable Isaac or no AT as the 2nd best option, so that a DLC campaign is more realistic. All or nothing, baby!

I just hope that if Isaac is a AT, the isaac fanbase will not go haywire.

 

[iam8bit]

I mean, we've been through worst.

It will be sad not to get playable Isaac, but at the very least we'll end up in a good position for the next game's roster, I guess.

 

[?!?!?!]

I just hope that if Isaac is a AT, the isaac fanbase will not go haywire.

I will cry in silence dw

 

[Teeb147]

People don't want to give up on what they care about.
And why should they, they've already been disappointed. Depends how much motivation someone has tho :/

 

[alguidrag]

I just hope that if Isaac is a AT, the isaac fanbase will not go haywire.

If he appears as a AT I would start the "Felix/Matthew for Smash" XD

 

[TempestSurge]

Only thing about DLC I don't particularly like is that since it's taken into consideration after the full game, the DLC characters aren't really treated as if they're there. As in their trailer is not available in game, minimal trophies, they're not on any menu buttons, and a part of me is thinking they won't get added to that big crossover montage either.

I'm glad there's another lifeline in DLC and that it's not over if worst case scenario happens, but it'd be really nice if Isaac could cement his legacy in the base roster.

Edit: Okay scratch that I forgot most of Smash 4 dlc was vets and third parties. There weren't any new trailers aside from Corrine cgi cutscene lol.

 

[praline]

Honestly I really think there is obly 3 unique newcomers left and Isaac is gonna be one of them. I’d definitely main him if he got in.

 

[alguidrag]

"Isaac brings the sun!"
"Skull Kid Makes the moon crashes down!"
"Everyone else RUNS FOR THEIR LIVES THE MOON IS FALLING!"

 

[Ura]

Man this thread really exploded in popularity lately. Hopefully that's a good sign for how well Isaac performed on the Ballot.

Honestly I really think there is obly 3 unique newcomers left and Isaac is gonna be one of them. I’d definitely main him if he got in.

I would say the last 3 characters are Isaac, Karate Joe, and Skull Kid. Maybe Geno as well.

 

[praline]

Man this thread really exploded in popularity lately. Hopefully that's a good sign for how well Isaac performed on the Ballot.

I would say the last 3 characters are Isaac, Karate Joe, and Skull Kid. Maybe Geno as well.

I don’t see Karate Joe being playable. Pretty sure only popular characters in Ultimate.

 

[Ura]

I don’t see Karate Joe being playable. Pretty sure only popular characters in Ultimate.

Well he's in my prediction list only because of the RH cameo in K. Rool's trailer. Well that and most unused concepts for Smash 4 are in Ultimate (i.e. Chrom). Otherwise i'm indifferent to any RH representation.

 

[praline]

Well he's in my prediction list only because of the RH cameo in K. Rool's trailer. Well that and most unused concepts for Smash 4 are in Ultimate (i.e. Chrom). Otherwise i'm indifferent to any RH representation.

I’m pretty sure there’s no RH cameo in K. Rool’s trailer. It’s just super straw grasping.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Honestly I really think there is obly 3 unique newcomers left and Isaac is gonna be one of them. I’d definitely main him if he got in.

We can only hope.

Man this thread really exploded in popularity lately. Hopefully that's a good sign for how well Isaac performed on the Ballot.

I would say the last 3 characters are Isaac, Karate Joe, and Skull Kid. Maybe Geno as well.

Honestly, The two franchises i /wish/ get a slot is Custom Robo and Golden Sun. (Mostly because they didn't deserve to be erased entirely from brawl. :<)

Keyword wish.

 

[iam8bit]

I wouldn't exactly be upset at Skull Kid being playable (Majora's Mask is my favorite Zelda game after all), but there are factors that make Skull kid kind of a "meh" character to me

1. It wasn't really the Skull Kid behind the events of MM but Majora's Mask
2. Majora's Mask was the ONLY game where Skull Kid was worth a damn (he's been in other games, but had lesser roles)
3. When he was still possessed, he didn't exactly...do alot past the intro? He steals your horse, turns you into an deku, and then just spends the rest of the game chilling on the Clocktown Tower. Once you do get to him, he just screams and just hovers there doing nothing (as far as I remember anyways, maybe I just deal with him quick enough before he does anything).

Old comment, but I just gotta say... not to mention the fact that Skull Kid/MM, a one-time villain in Zelda, would likely get an original moveset, something that Ganondorf, a recurring villain and the freaking TRIFORCE OF POWER owner, hasn't gotten.

It would kinda be a slap in the face to Ganondorf fans.

 

[RandomAce]

Though unlikely, I hope Sin and Punishment gets in there too.

And Advance Wars...

 

[XenoWarriorX]

And Advance Wars...

The problem that Advanced wars faces is that it was nowhere near ANY poll.

They are below .5% in votes. Which is REALLY bad.

 

[Kirbyfan391]

Majoras Mask is my fav 3d Zelda and I'd also be a bit "meh" about Skull Kid. I feel he's a character that would actually get lost in translation when put into a fighting game. He works best in a more narrative oriented game like Zelda because his main appeal is his mannerisms and atmosphere he brings. So while I really like Skull Kid in MM, wouldn't feel same for Smash. Would still be fine with it and I'm sure his reveal trailer would be worth it though.

Also, I really do hope Isaac did well in the ballot...that is his main hope really. But I'm a bit worried, K Rool probably did well which is why he got the Mii Costume, so it's worrying when considering that and the fact Isaac didn't get any...if he did well, why would they not have thrown that bone?

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Majoras Mask is my fav 3d Zelda and I'd also be a bit "meh" about Skull Kid. I feel he's a character that would actually get lost in translation when put into a fighting game. He works best in a more narrative oriented game like Zelda because his main appeal is his mannerisms and atmosphere he brings. So while I really like Skull Kid in MM, wouldn't feel same for Smash. Would still be fine with it and I'm sure his reveal trailer would be worth it though.

Also, I really do hope Isaac did well in the ballot...that is his main hope really. But I'm a bit worried, K Rool probably did well which is why he got the Mii Costume, so it's worrying when considering that and the fact Isaac didn't get any...if he did well, why would they not have thrown that bone?

Might i remind you that Ashley also got on the ballot, and got a costume.

 

[Ura]

The problem that Advanced wars faces is that it was nowhere near ANY poll.

They are below .5% in votes. Which is REALLY bad.

I'd like to think Andy (and by proxy Sami) has a silent voter base voting for these characters. Obviously not Isaac levels of popularity but enough for Sakurai to notice. Even if he doesn't show up on Reddit polls.

But I think if Andy were included he'd be a "psuedo-retro" more so than a Ballot choice.

 

[Tetiro]

Majoras Mask is my fav 3d Zelda and I'd also be a bit "meh" about Skull Kid. I feel he's a character that would actually get lost in translation when put into a fighting game. He works best in a more narrative oriented game like Zelda because his main appeal is his mannerisms and atmosphere he brings. So while I really like Skull Kid in MM, wouldn't feel same for Smash. Would still be fine with it and I'm sure his reveal trailer would be worth it though.

Also, I really do hope Isaac did well in the ballot...that is his main hope really. But I'm a bit worried, K Rool probably did well which is why he got the Mii Costume, so it's worrying when considering that and the fact Isaac didn't get any...if he did well, why would they not have thrown that bone?

Ridley didn't get a costume though

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

I’m pretty sure there’s no RH cameo in K. Rool’s trailer. It’s just super straw grasping.

Cameo or not Rhythm Heaven's chances are quite high actually.

 

[DogManStar]

The problem that Advanced wars faces is that it was nowhere near ANY poll.

They are below .5% in votes. Which is REALLY bad.

For what it’s worth, I voted for Andy.

 

[RandomAce]

The problem that Advanced wars faces is that it was nowhere near ANY poll.

They are below .5% in votes. Which is REALLY bad.

LET ME DREAM!

But honestly, I feel that for Ultimate after the base roster or adding the big fan favorites Sakurai might be more inclined to add different franchises that represent different parts of Nintendo history.

Advance Wars is one as it helped pushed Nintendo to release more JRPGs like Fire Emblem to the West sooner. It also adds another GBA character (and a DS if Will is somehow an echo). So maybe as DLC...

Idk, having Isaac as the sole new GBA Rep is gonna be kinda sad, but even then having Isaac simply join just opens up so many opportunities.

 

[Organization XIII]

Majoras Mask is my fav 3d Zelda and I'd also be a bit "meh" about Skull Kid. I feel he's a character that would actually get lost in translation when put into a fighting game. He works best in a more narrative oriented game like Zelda because his main appeal is his mannerisms and atmosphere he brings. So while I really like Skull Kid in MM, wouldn't feel same for Smash. Would still be fine with it and I'm sure his reveal trailer would be worth it though.

Also, I really do hope Isaac did well in the ballot...that is his main hope really. But I'm a bit worried, K Rool probably did well which is why he got the Mii Costume, so it's worrying when considering that and the fact Isaac didn't get any...if he did well, why would they not have thrown that bone?

I think K Rool is a special case. Since the ballot wasn't exactly used for Smash 4 like we thought it would be the Mii costume for him was likely what he got for winning till he could be added in Ultimate. Every other costume were just fun additions that gave players a chance to pretend to be characters that weren't going to added for Smash 4. They were in no way meant to be a vision of things to come. Otherwise, we shouldn't have Ridley, Simon, Richter, or Daisy. Not to mention that every character added with a mii costume had external factors outside of the costumes that are likely the actual reason for their inclusion. K Rool is a popularity juggernaut, Chrom already had a moveset planned in Smash 4 and echos exist, Inklings are a freaking phenomenon, and Dark Samus is a quick edit of Samus. So yeah all things considered I wouldn't bother being worried about who does and doesn't have a costume.

 

[Kirbyfan391]

Might i remind you that Ashley also got on the ballot, and got a costume.

Ridley didn't get a costume though

Difference with Isaac is that, like K Rool, he wasn't in the base game of Smash 4(trophies don't exactly count, especially since Rool's Mii Costume was new assets). So that feels more synonymous with Isaac's situation than Ashley or Ridley. With the latter two at least whether or not they got a costume, they were acknowledged in the game already. Isaac though was infamously absent in Smash 4 completely, so I idk I just am worried that if he was popular a Mii Costume would be a good nod to acknowledging that and bringing him in, like with Rool.

I think K Rool is a special case. Since the ballot wasn't exactly used for Smash 4 like we thought it would be the Mii costume for him was likely what he got for winning till he could be added in Ultimate. Every other costume were just fun additions that gave players a chance to pretend to be characters that weren't going to added for Smash 4. They were in no way meant to be a vision of things to come. Otherwise, we shouldn't have Ridley, Simon, Richter, or Daisy. Not to mention that every character added with a mii costume had external factors outside of the costumes that are likely the actual reason for their inclusion. K Rool is a popularity juggernaut, Chrom already had a moveset planned in Smash 4 and echos exist, Inklings are a freaking phenomenon, and Dark Samus is a quick edit of Samus. So yeah all things considered I wouldn't bother being worried about who does and doesn't have a costume.

Hmm fair enough, that is reassuring.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

LET ME DREAM!

But honestly, I feel that for Ultimate after the base roster or adding the big fan favorites Sakurai might be more inclined to add different franchises that represent different parts of Nintendo history.

Advance Wars is one as it helped pushed Nintendo to release more JRPGs like Fire Emblem to the West sooner. It also adds another GBA character (and a DS if Will is somehow an echo). So maybe as DLC...

Idk, having Isaac as the sole new GBA Rep is gonna be kinda sad. But it having Isaac join just opens up so many opportunities.

Perhaps, we'll just have to wait and see if there are enough Andy fans out there.

For what it’s worth, I voted for Andy.

At least you voted for someone you fully want in smash.

I'd like to think Andy (and by proxy Sami) has a silent voter base voting for these characters. Obviously no Isaac levels of popularity but enough for Sakurai to notice. Even if he doesn't show up on Reddit polls.

But I think if Andy were included he'd be a "psuedo-retro" more so than a Ballot choice.

I mean, we'll have to see. But we don't know. For what we know, Saki could have had a huge silent majority vote for her, and we would never know.

 

[iam8bit]

So, I was sort of catching up on the last 10 pages or so. What was all this about loz tweeting about Isaac possibly being in the game?

I only saw a couple of people citing this, but no screenshots. I know we generally prefer not to give weight to what he says, but did he really write that before deleting his tweets? And if so, did no one get a capture of it? 4Chan, GameFaqs, anyone?

 

[Istry555]

The problem that Advanced wars faces is that it was nowhere near ANY poll.

They are below .5% in votes. Which is REALLY bad.

I think that's really because the Wars series doesn't really have specific playable characters to latch on to. People like to bring up Andy or Sami but you didn't really play as them, not in the same way you play as FE characters, so the push for a specific playable character is low in votes. However, the Wars series has had a ton of games since the NES and definitely deserves a playable rep even if it hasn't had anything recently (because muh FE).

However, my idea was always just to make the Infantry unit a playable character. It would rep the entire franchise, could have moves pulled from all the different units (or even just be a sad clone of Snake if they were lazy), already has all his alts/colors done with the different army uniforms in Advanced Wars. His final smash could be a CO power and feature Andy or Sami to give a nod to Advanced Wars being the most known version of the franchise in the West.

 

[Johnknight1]

70-80% playable. He's my highest playable that isn't a leak (Incineroar) and an echo.

Same... at least in regards to Nintendo-owned characters (behind Nincineroar/Skull Kid), with the exception of Spring Man, whom I have above him (because Spring Man is gonna be playable, leaks or no leaks).

Percentage-wise I have Isaac at a 80% chance of being playable ATM. As we get more leaked characters confirmed, that could rise to 90%. Valid leakers saying Isaac could rise that to 99%.

Which is actually blowing my mind that we are in this situation LOL!

This! We need to keep our heads fighting and stay united, as fans of Camelot's glorious RPG's.

Here's the hype speech you are looking for...

 

[praline]

Cameo or not Rhythm Heaven's chances are quite high actually.

I really hope not honestly

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I think that's really because the Wars series doesn't really have specific playable characters to latch on to. People like to bring up Andy or Sami but you didn't really play as them, not in the same way you play as FE characters, so the push for a specific playable character is low in votes. However, the Wars series has had a ton of games since the NES and definitely deserves a playable rep even if it hasn't had anything recently (because muh FE).

However, my idea was always just to make the Infantry unit a playable character. It would rep the entire franchise, could have moves pulled from all the different units (or even just be a sad clone of Snake if they were lazy), already has all his alts/colors done with the different army uniforms in Advanced Wars. His final smash could be a CO power and feature Andy or Sami to give a nod to Advanced Wars being the most known version of the franchise in the West.

The problem is that most smash fans don't probably see the moveset of that type of "character". Tis a shame.

So, I was sort of catching up on the last 10 pages or so. What was all this about loz tweeting about Isaac possibly being in the game?

I only saw a couple of people citing this, but no screenshots. I know we generally prefer not to give weight to what he says, but did he really write that before deleting his tweets? And if so, did no one get a capture of it? 4Chan, GameFaqs, anyone?

The problem is that he made that tweet and deactivated his account. And no one had time to screenshot it.

But yes. Real people copies and pasted it.

"Isaac is probably in. I need to do some more digging first. Stay tuned!"

and i managed to snag this.