Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[ZelDan]

The reactions overall are definitely what I look forward the most right now, it's going to be insane once it happens…

They're usually good.

Still salty that they booed Bayonetta during the EVERYONE IS HERE reveal though.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

They're usually good.

Still salty that they booed Bayonetta during the EVERYONE IS HERE reveal though.

I guess that's more because of how broken she was rather than the character herself

 

[ZelDan]

I guess that's more because of how broken she was rather than the character herself

I get she was OP as hell in Smash 4 and assume that what the booing was about.

Still, it's not like we had any idea how good Bayo would be in Ultimate, if at all at the time, so still kinda dumb.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

If Golden Sun is really going to be revealed, it is sad that it won't be in E3 due to corona but in a regular direct. The impact will probably be the same, but I expect less people to watch? I hope this won't be an issue though!

They could still showcase E3 as a big online presentation though.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

They could still showcase E3 as a big online presentation though.

They already confirmed they aren't doing E3 this year in any form. IGN is holding their own kind of event in June similar to E3 with multiple game companies on board with that and Nintendo is expected just to have a June direct then

 

[RetrogamerMax]

They already confirmed they aren't doing E3 this year in any form. IGN is holding their own kind of event in June similar to E3 with multiple game companies on board with that and Nintendo is expected just to have a June direct then

I had no idea. I must have been living under a rock. I honestly just want to see the Nintendo stuff so a hour long non E3 Nintendo Direct is good to me.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I guess that's more because of how broken she was rather than the character herself

For me, it was because of the lie that she was a ballot winner.
She made it in. All right.
Please don't insult me by telling me that's what people voted as most popular, regardless of the limitations of the company.
That insulted me as a fan, and my trust in Nintendo.

 

[FlawedAI]

Hasn't it been reported that Nintendo's presentation could be delayed? This whole virus thing has been throwing off plans and I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo didn't have their "E3" presentation in June this year.

 

[Organization XIII]

They could not have anything but it's also possible that they'll just have "dates subject to change due to covid" disclaimer again.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Hasn't it been reported that Nintendo's presentation could be delayed? This whole virus thing has been throwing off plans and I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo didn't have their "E3" presentation in June this year.

At the very least we should be getting the Arms reveal then but at the moment June is the most likely time we're getting anything out of them in terms of new first/second party game reveals. We'll see how things pan out

 

[FlawedAI]

At the very least we should be getting the Arms reveal then but at the moment June is the most likely time we're getting anything out of them in terms of new first/second party game reveals. We'll see how things pan out

I've heard that the Nintendo presentation is currently up in the air in terms of date. I'd expect the ARMS character to still be released in June, but I'm not sure about the presentation itself.

 

[SonicLink125]

When all seems doom & gloom, always hold on to the light, Adepts! Soon, we'll triumph over it all!
#SmashBros #GoldenSun #AssistAlliance pic.twitter.com/WozHe1Yvhu

— SonicLink125 ☀️ (@SonicLink125) April 25, 2020

Just wanted to come by and say that I hope everyone is holding on strong!

 

[pupNapoleon]

When all seems doom & gloom, always hold on to the light, Adepts! Soon, we'll triumph over it all!
#SmashBros #GoldenSun #AssistAlliance pic.twitter.com/WozHe1Yvhu

— SonicLink125 ☀️ (@SonicLink125) April 25, 2020

Just wanted to come by and say that I hope everyone is holding on strong!

The only thing this made me realize... is that Shulk was the replacement for a Golden Sun chacter in a lot of ways.
Meaning, that if timing were different, Isaac would have been added without question for Smash 4.

 

[Nazyrus]

The only thing this made me realize... is that Shulk was the replacement for a Golden Sun chacter in a lot of ways.
Meaning, that if timing were different, Isaac would have been added without question for Smash 4.

I don't think there was such thing as a "replacement". Shulk got in for his own reasons.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I don't think there was such thing as a "replacement". Shulk got in for his own reasons.

Take the essence of what I said, not a direct literalization.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Hasn't it been reported that Nintendo's presentation could be delayed? This whole virus thing has been throwing off plans and I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo didn't have their "E3" presentation in June this year.

They could also just showcase the presentation without the E3 event happening. I think that's the most likely case honestly.

 

[FlawedAI]

They could also just showcase the presentation without the E3 event happening. I think that's the most likely case honestly.

I am aware of that, and that's what they're doing, but that presentation might be delayed from its initial scheduled date in June.

 

[ZelDan]

Take the essence of what I said, not a direct literalization.

If Shulk didn't get in I don't know if that really means Isaac would have got in. Golden Sun wasn't exactly in the greatest spot back then, and while Dark Dawn was a bit more recent back before Smash 4 compared to now, that game wasn't a success at all, not really helping GS's case at all.

Really if Sakurai or Nintendo wanted Isaac, he would have put him in, regardless of if Shulk's or Xenoblade's situation. I don't think they would have had any issue with having Shulk and Isaac announced in the same game if they actually wanted both.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

If Shulk didn't get in I don't know if that really means Isaac would have got in. Golden Sun wasn't exactly in the greatest spot back then, and while Dark Dawn was a bit more recent back before Smash 4 compared to now, that game wasn't a success at all, not really helping GS's case at all.

Really if Sakurai or Nintendo wanted Isaac, he would have put him in, regardless of if Shulk's or Xenoblade's situation. I don't think they would have had any issue with having Shulk and Isaac announced in the same game if they actually wanted both.

I honestly think if Sakurai wanted Isaac he would have gotten in back in Brawl. He would have been a lock in Brawl if Sakurai was as big of a Isaac fan as a Geno fan. He wouldn't have Geno's copyright problems because of being 1st party.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

TurtlesPancakes is sharing a bunch of Dark Dawn beta stuff on Twitter. Check it out if you're interested

Another thread of unused Dark Dawn stuff! This time, I have some early models and unused monsters!
I'll start with my favorite of the early Matt models
Once again, everything you see here is courtesy of Salanewt!#GoldenSun pic.twitter.com/oXnTv1KCrA

— Kris!! (@TurtlesPancake) April 25, 2020

Unused Dark Dawn rooms: A thread
Starting with Kalay
All of these screenshots are from a stream by Salanewt (https://t.co/c3DRX3LSu0) #GoldenSun pic.twitter.com/EldYv5mcM9

— Kris!! (@TurtlesPancake) April 24, 2020

 

[pupNapoleon]

If Shulk didn't get in I don't know if that really means Isaac would have got in. Golden Sun wasn't exactly in the greatest spot back then, and while Dark Dawn was a bit more recent back before Smash 4 compared to now, that game wasn't a success at all, not really helping GS's case at all.

Really if Sakurai or Nintendo wanted Isaac, he would have put him in, regardless of if Shulk's or Xenoblade's situation. I don't think they would have had any issue with having Shulk and Isaac announced in the same game if they actually wanted both.

Timing wise- which was the exact part of what I said.
If we had Golden Sun several years later, it carried a similar idea to Xenoblade- it was a second party company, it had a huge undercurrent fanbase, good sales but not overthe top, unique RPG. I suppose this is another lesson in the necessity of precise language- one word then taken out of a sentence, like "replaced," can trigger an entire response unrelated to the thesis.

 

[TempestSurge]

I don't know, to be honest. If that specific clause isn't in the new VA's contract, they could potentially patch him in, but that's unlikely given they didn't patch in English voices for Marth and Roy when they got official English VAs in 2015. Maybe the next Smash game with Cloud will give him this new voice.

I heard the new VAs for 7 Remake will only be doing the characters for this specific game. It's said for other cameos they will be reprised by their former VAs. Like how Aerith in KH3 is by the old VA instead of the one who voices her in the Remake. I will assume that the issue with Cloud will remain regardless if he even returns for the next Smash since Square will likely handle the crediting the same as you mentioned.

Also as mentioned time flies, we're already at a week away till May. Can't believe how far the ARMS character announcement seemed before. Pretty crazy we could actually get a Golden Sun announcement next direct. Maybe followed with an Isaac Smash reveal. I just want both at this point lol.

 

[FlawedAI]

I heard the new VAs for 7 Remake will only be doing the characters for this specific game. It's said for other cameos they will be reprised by their former VAs. Like how Aerith in KH3 is by the old VA instead of the one who voices her in the Remake. I will assume that the issue with Cloud will remain regardless if he even returns for the next Smash since Square will likely handle the crediting the same as you mentioned.

Why on earth would Square do this? They go through all the trouble of recasting the entirety of Final Fantasy VII's cast (no small feat) only to use them for the remakes? Maybe they're trying to separate the "Remake Universe" and the "Original Universe" that includes Advent Children, Crisis Core, and Dirge of Cerberus. If that's the case, then Steve Burton probably still has that specific clause in his contract that prevents him from being used in Smash unless they change their crediting, which is unlikely.

 

[TempestSurge]

Why on earth would Square do this? They go through all the trouble of recasting the entirety of Final Fantasy VII's cast (no small feat) only to use them for the remakes? Maybe they're trying to separate the "Remake Universe" and the "Original Universe" that includes Advent Children, Crisis Core, and Dirge of Cerberus. If that's the case, then Steve Burton probably still has that specific clause in his contract that prevents him from being used in Smash unless they change their crediting, which is unlikely.

Interestingly they were to do the same with replacing the Japanese VAs as well but now I hear they still use the same voices so not sure why they only decided to do it with just the English cast. Steve Burton did voice Remake Cloud in the 2015 trailer. Just when it got another one four years later in 2019 he was replaced with Cody and took out the 'voice of Cloud Strife' that he's had in his bio for years. Probably to clear up confusion with the current Remake project. The seperating the universes is a good point. In the west voice actors aren't really seen as celebrities compared to their Japanese voice actor counterparts so I guess changing the whole English cast wouldn't come off as too much backlash.

 

[smashkirby]

For me, it was because of the lie that she was a ballot winner.
She made it in. All right.
Please don't insult me by telling me that's what people voted as most popular, regardless of the limitations of the company.
That insulted me as a fan, and my trust in Nintendo.

This. This is what sours me on Bayo sometimes when I think about Smash 4 dropping the ball near the end.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Golden Sun is the example of a GBA game Scott uses in the latest episode (see timestamp)

Have his thoughts on the original Golden Sun ever been brought up in this thread, BTW?

 

[MeatOfJustice]

Why on earth would Square do this? They go through all the trouble of recasting the entirety of Final Fantasy VII's cast (no small feat) only to use them for the remakes? Maybe they're trying to separate the "Remake Universe" and the "Original Universe" that includes Advent Children, Crisis Core, and Dirge of Cerberus. If that's the case, then Steve Burton probably still has that specific clause in his contract that prevents him from being used in Smash unless they change their crediting, which is unlikely.

I heard Maximillian Dood saying that they changed the voices because they were too familiar and they want us to feel like the characters are real people, but I don't know his source.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I heard Maximillian Dood saying that they changed the voices because they were too familiar and they want us to feel like the characters are real people, but I don't know his source.

Real people = familiar. That doesnt make sense.

This. This is what sours me on Bayo sometimes when I think about Smash 4 dropping the ball near the end.

YEP! I do love Bayonetta now. At the time I was angry they didnt add Lara Croft instead.
Actually, now that I put that back into my head... still a bit bitter.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I wasn't that upset with Bayonetta, initially, yes, but later it started to make sense when I learned she's basically a Nintendo character. And we didn't have many other successful protagonists of new games who are suitable for Smash. I was more upset with Cloud, as he just didn't make sense to me. Am also surprisingly cool with him now. Last time I've been upset with a character reveal might be Joker honestly. It was pretty anti climax to me, starting Fighter Pass with an unknown 3rd party. Still think he's the odd duck on the roster honestly.

 

[Cadillac]

I wasn't upset because I didn't know she existed back then

 

[Organization XIII]

I wasn't upset because I didn't know she existed back then

That's the reason most people were mad.

 

[FlawedAI]

Bayonetta upset me because of the obvious lies Nintendo tried to spin. What did "realizable character" mean? Those you had already decided and programmed into the game? I stand by me assertion that K. Rool was the actual ballot winner and the Mii Costume was made to reflect that. Not to mention Bayo felt incredibly out of place in Smash, especially in a game without Snake. I maintain Cloud should've been the character to finish off the Sm4sh DLC, he's iconic and was a total surprise (so glad that he didn't leak) and I personally feel it was his reveal that opened the door to anyone. I don't think characters like Bayo, Joker, Simon, Hero, and Terry could've happened without Cloud showing truly anyone could make it, with him long being considered an "impossible" character.

 

[Cadillac]

Tbh why can't we see the ballot results?

 

[MeatOfJustice]

Real people = familiar. That doesnt make sense.

Familiar as in recognizing the usual voice actors. They got many people from the show/movie industry this time.

 

[Nazyrus]

Tbh why can't we see the ballot results?

I'm glad we don't, otherwise we will have to deal more with the whole "this character deserves it more over yours" blahblahblah but 10 times more annoying, knowing the smash community.
Besides, the results clearly were just a guideline for Nintendo to learn about what characters are the most demanded and such, but overall their priorities and final decisions aren't just based on demand as their criteria, which has been already proved with pass 1 and maybe even base roster, otherwise instead of getting a few characters no one asked for, we would've been getting only characters people wanted. And it continues to be that way, they mix up what we want with their own priorities business-wise.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I'm glad we don't, otherwise we will have to deal more with the whole "this character deserves it more over yours" blahblahblah but 10 times more annoying, knowing the smash community.
Besides, the results clearly were just a guideline for Nintendo to learn about what characters are the most demanded and such, but overall their priorities and final decisions aren't just based on demand as their criteria, which has been already proved with pass 1 and maybe even base roster, otherwise instead of getting a few characters no one asked for, we would've been getting only characters people wanted. And it continues to be that way, they mix up what we want with their own priorities business-wise.

I agree with this. It was DIRECTLY stated on the Smash ballot that the results would be used for future games. While it didnt clarify if this meant future Smash titles or future games in general, I was shocked then, and still shocked today, that this fact was under reported, and under represented on the speculation boards.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I'm glad we don't, otherwise we will have to deal more with the whole "this character deserves it more over yours" blahblahblah but 10 times more annoying, knowing the smash community.
Besides, the results clearly were just a guideline for Nintendo to learn about what characters are the most demanded and such, but overall their priorities and final decisions aren't just based on demand as their criteria, which has been already proved with pass 1 and maybe even base roster, otherwise instead of getting a few characters no one asked for, we would've been getting only characters people wanted. And it continues to be that way, they mix up what we want with their own priorities business-wise.

Eh, I'm all for the transparency. If a character did better than another on the ballot, and they still chose not to include them, I think the least the fans of said character deserve is an explanation.

It's not like it would make arguments any worse, honestly it would make them better if anything. Right now, a fanbase of a popular character can't argue their popularity because fanpolls and the like are discarded. Give us the results of the official poll, and let's see what the real counterarguments are.

 

[Cadillac]

Eh, I'm all for the transparency. If a character did better than another on the ballot, and they still chose not to include them, I think the least the fans of said character deserve is an explanation.

It's not like it would make arguments any worse, honestly it would make them better if anything. Right now, a fanbase of a popular character can't argue their popularity because fanpolls and the like are discarded. Give us the results of the official poll, and let's see what the real counterarguments are.

I think the detractors will make up any arguments of why won't they make it regardless if they make sense or not. For example Lloyd was a mii costume, and I'm pretty sure he's popular. My guess is that he's the Cloud of the Tales of series. But his haters would say "He wields two swords! That's double the worse!" or "He's not from the first game!"

 

[Nazyrus]

I think the detractors will make up any arguments of why won't they make it regardless if they make sense or not. For example Lloyd was a mii costume, and I'm pretty sure he's popular. My guess is that he's the Cloud of the Tales of series. But his haters would say "He wields two swords! That's double the worse!" or "He's not from the first game!"

The fact that Tales Of has absolutely no content in Smash Ultimate yet is baffling to me… not just the Namco miis missing, but just no spirits or anything from Tales Of, which is considered one of the top 3 biggest JRPGs in Japan (FF DQ and Tales Of, this is on the wikipedia article of Tales Of). It almost hurts how obvious and suspicious it is lol. And yes Lloyd is literally the most known Tales Of character (the problem is that people don't consider him the most popular in the current times, people focus more on Yuri because he is more recent), and even Sakurai has considered him to be THE Nintendo Tales Of character, and not surprisingly considering he has been in other crossovers already, his game got a sequel, OVAs (animations), etc…

The whole swordsmen argument stupid detractors come up with will never make any sense by the way, the problem is not too many swordsmen, because if you count how many we got, it's not even a FOURTH of the roster at all, they are not many. The problem is that half (literally) are freaking FE characters, 3 links… and the very few remaining are the only franchise variety of swordsmen. If we had a more balanced franchise variety in the swordsmen role, I guarantee you people wouldn't complain as much, considering, like i said, that they aren't even a fourth of the roster. 2 swords honestly sounds really cool, we don't have that, and from what I remember playing ToS… there's more to lloyd than just the swords lol but it would be spoilers to talk about it. In short, he can be made unique on his own, we dont have a character like him really, and he could be a high combo character like bayo but swordsman-like.

With Isaac… he would barely even use his sword, since I see Isaac using mostly psynergy for his moveset. If anything his sword would be used for jabs and thats it lol. Swordsmen can be very unique overall, but people are blinded by the lack of franchise variety and how even FE feels like the same thing over and over again for the longest time now, which is not FE itself's fault really, but Nintendo's fault for not picking other weapon type of characters from the series itself… People dislike or don't think too much of Robin in comparison to the other FE characters tier-wise, but to me he has been the most interesting character we've ever gotten from that series, even if he is not high tier, lol, at least he is not the same thing for the tenth time.

 

[Cadillac]

Speaking of Tales, who do you want to see as a Tales fighter? I like Lloyd and I would be happy about him getting in, but I slightly prefer Yuri just because of Dragon Swarm. My god that looks awesome.