Strength Tier List

[PrinceMarthX]

Did two more for fun. One of the best and worst killers.

Mr. Game & Watch
bucket: 18%
up smash: 77%
down Smash: 80%

Judgement 9 wasn't counted because it's a 1/7 chance to hit. Same reason I didn't count Luigi's green missile misfire.

average: 58.3

----

Sheik
up smash: 88%
vanish: 132%
neutral air: 152%

average: 124

 

[stabbedbyahippie]

I think you should average the top 5 kill moves and not count B moves. The results would be a lot more accurate for everyone except maybe the very few characters who rely on killing with B moves.

 

[Adapt]

Did two more for fun. One of the best and worst killers.

Mr. Game & Watch
bucket: 18%
up smash: 77%
down Smash: 80%

Judgement 9 wasn't counted because it's a 1/7 chance to hit. Same reason I didn't count Luigi's green missile misfire.

average: 58.3

----

Sheik
up smash: 88%
vanish: 132%
neutral air: 152%

average: 124

what did you use in your bucket? fireballs? there is a stronger version of the bucket.
also I found some different results for Mario
fsmash killing at ~96% (can't remember exactly, but it was less than 102) and dsmash at 136%

Zelda:
bair: 66%
fair: 71%
uair: 84%

average: 73.67

Pity these are very hard to hit someone with

 

[okiyama]

This all depends on your definition of strength. Is strength knockback or is it %? is it both?

If it's % then you could do science and figure it out with averages but knockback is tricky to test. Or is this like the real tier list where it's open to arguement?

 

[PrinceMarthX]

what did you use in your bucket? fireballs? there is a stronger version of the bucket.

All tests are done with Mario. So his fireballs are what's used.

Something about my tests that I haven't mentioned before: The kill percent is when it kills them off-screen. If it only sends him far enough to where he can't recover then it isn't counted.

Zelda:
bair: 66%
fair: 71%

Looking at your percents, it doesn't look like you're doing it from the center.

This what I got with Zelda's lightning kicks from the center.

back air: 71%
forward air: 76%

 

[Browny]

ZSS
d-special: 112% (upon grounded mario)
bair: 114%
fair: 121% for the second hit only (115% if first hit connects before)

where on earth did you get those numbers from?

I did the same, and got 119, 121 and 124 respectively (130 for the second hit only) av. ~121.3. i know how the sweetspot works on her attacks as well so i didnt do it wrong.

i also did a few others i thought would be interesting...

Diddy:
fsmash: 130
fair: 150
dsmash: 137
~ 139

Sonic:
dsmash: 124
fsmash: 117
bair: 134
~ 125

Full power lucario
Fsmash: 72
Aura Sphere: 83
Double team: 80
~78.3

 

[ph00tbag]

where on earth did you get those numbers from?

Training mode, no DI. I can verify these numbers since I helped compile a lot of the data on ZSS' moves.

I'm going to make a request that people perform these calculations based on the percent that the actual game uses, because your inadvertently letting the move's damage have an effect (unless that's the idea?). Knockback is calculated after damage, so really Zamus' KO percentages for her top three are

Flip Jump: 124%
Bair: 127%
Fair: 132%

And so on. The same applies to other characters as well.

 

[Browny]

well maybe someone else can do it. coz i did the same method as everyone else here with mario in the centre, no DI etc.

the only thing im thinking... did you set the CPU mario to stop, or control? if you set it to stop they generally live a fair amount longer than if you set it to control and simply dont touch it at all, in which case many of the numbers posted on this thread would be wrong unless they are all using the same thing. btw my numbers were set with the enemy to 'stop'

 

[PrinceMarthX]

I always use a level 9 set to stop. The CPU does an air dodge+jump to live longer.

To be completely specific.

Training Mode
Level 9 Mario
Final Destination
Set to Stop
I kill Mario and perform all tests from his spawning point (Which is the center)
I don't record the percent until it kills him off-screen.
For aerials that can't hit when he's grounded, I set him to Jump and try to hit him at the lowest point of the jump.

 

[Adapt]

well maybe someone else can do it. coz i did the same method as everyone else here with mario in the centre, no DI etc.

the only thing im thinking... did you set the CPU mario to stop, or control? if you set it to stop they generally live a fair amount longer than if you set it to control and simply dont touch it at all, in which case many of the numbers posted on this thread would be wrong unless they are all using the same thing. btw my numbers were set with the enemy to 'stop'

mine were set to control, because the computer does DI, and I took this to be a no-DI test

That might explain why Princemarthx and I disagree on horizontal killing moves.


I know what you mean about the damages ph00tbag, but I still think a kill percentage is more useful as given before the move has hit.

 

[Browny]

well in that case i think you might wanna test your numbers with the CPU set to stop, since everyone else on this thread has. and the cpu doesnt DI properly at all, they always get knocked at the same angle from the attack, proper human DI can changle those angles like 35* up and down

and another thing, you cant fairly base these numbers off 5 KO attacks. Characters like MK, Sonic, Diddy dont even have 5 KO moves. while the average of thier main 3 might be around 120-140, their next best KO moves are all around 160%+ and horribly skew the results.

 

[Adapt]

well in that case i think you might wanna test your numbers with the CPU set to stop, since everyone else on this thread has. and the cpu doesnt DI properly at all, they always get knocked at the same angle from the attack, proper human DI can changle those angles like 35* up and down

yeah I never said it DIs very well

I think the comp waits until after the airdodge before beginning to DI, but I'm not certain


setting the comp to "control" is the proper way to do it imo, because you are trying to eliminate everything you can from the equation. This allows you to get a base number that other things get added onto. (DI, SDI, aerials or airdodge-jump will add a percentage onto the base number)

 

[Tristan_win]

where on earth did you get those numbers from?

I did the same, and got 119, 121 and 124 respectively (130 for the second hit only) av. ~121.3. i know how the sweetspot works on her attacks as well so i didnt do it wrong.

i also did a few others i thought would be interesting...

Diddy:
fsmash: 130
fair: 150
dsmash: 137
~ 139

Sonic:
dsmash: 124
fsmash: 117
bair: 134
~ 125

Full power lucario
Fsmash: 72
Aura Sphere: 83
Double team: 80
~78.3

haha, Sheik is stronger then Diddy and Sonic

I love how broken sheik is.

 

[PrinceMarthX]

Kirby
hammer: 83%
stone drop: 100%
up smash: 101%

average: 94.6

----

Pit
back air: 106%
forward smash: 127%
down smash: 141%

average: 124.6

---

Wario
Wario waft: 52%
forward smash: 112%
up air: 113%

average: 92.3

 

[Flayl]

Kirby's USmash kills Mario faster than his FSmash?

 

[PrinceMarthX]

Kirby's USmash kills Mario faster than his FSmash?

Barely.

Forward smash tilted up kills at 102%
Forward smash not tilted kills at 103%
Forward smash tilted down kills at 107%

 

[PrinceMarthX]

Ganondorf
wizard punch: 21%
up tilt: 45%
forward smash: 76%

average: 47.3

---

King Dedede
forward smash: 50%
jet hammer: 52%
up tilt: 103%

average: 68.3

---

Snake
forward smash: 59%
C4: 93%
up tilt: 102%

average: 84.6%

 

[Browny]

snakes dair and nair are a great deal more powerful that his utilt i thought...

 

[PrinceMarthX]

They deal more damage with multiple hits but the final hit (the one with the knock back) doesn't have as much.

Going by all the data collected so far. Here's what the tier list looks like:

Top tier
Ganondorf
Mr. Game & Watch
Donkey Kong
King Dedede

High tier
Zelda
Captain Falcon
Lucario
Luigi
Ike
Ness
Snake
Bowser
Ivysaur
Lucas

Middle tier
Wario
Olimar
Kirby
Jigglypuff
Marth
Charizard
Pikachu
Link
Toon Link
Yoshi
Zero Suit Samus
Fox
Peach
R.O.B.

Low tier
Squirtle
Mario
Samus
Sheik
Pit
Sonic
Wolf
Falco
Ice Climbers

Bottom tier
Meta Knight
Diddy Kong

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Well if your going by the OP your list is horribly wrong.

From what I got of it he is doing it by blank attack deals blank damage. Other wise separating the attacks wouldn't matter since the 1st usually has the least knock back. If not then you where supposed to charge Ike's eruption since its a B move and that would bring him down to 50.6. (using 3 moves, your supposed to use 5)

 

[PrinceMarthX]

My method is different than OP's

I originally suggested 5 moves but later changed it to 3. Moves that charge aren't counted unless you can move while charging or charged.

Samus
charged shot: 118%
back air: 122%
down tilt: 131%

average: 123.6

---

Captain Falcon
falcon punch: 46%
forward air: 80%
down smash: 105%

average: 77

---

Link
down air: 84%
down smash: 107%
forward smash: 126%

average: 105.6

---

Meta Knight
forward smash: 118%
shutter loop: 136%
down smash: 136%

average: 130

---

Pikachu
thunder: 80%
forward smash: 109%
up smash: 119%

average: 102.6

---

Fox
up smash: 93%
up air: 126%
forward smash: 129%

average: 116

 

[Gygados]

We seem to be making two different lists, one based on damage and one on knockback. This could work for us, as we could work out from the two lists a single list, thus hopefully eliminating any flaws in either list.

 

[PrinceMarthX]

Marth
forward smash: 78%
down smash: 104%
dancing blade: 107% (4th strike up only)

average: 96.3

---

Falco
forward smash: 115%
up smash: 122%
up air: 142%

average: 126.3

---

Jigglypuff
rest: 67%
forward smash: 110%
up smash: 110%

average: 95.6

---

Donkey Kong
giant punch: 48%
forward smash: 75%
up smash: 76%

average: 66.3

---

Bowser
forward smash: 80%
up air: 84%
Bowser bomb: 94%

average: 86

---

R.O.B.
up smash: 95%
forward smash tilted up: 123%
neutral air: 138%

average: 118.6

I'm surprised how weak Falco is.

 

[infomon]

Well if you start caring about how damaging attacks are, instead of knockback.... Ice Climbers have the most damaging smash in the game

Fully charged Dsmash can hit twice with each ice climber for a total of 54% damage! ICs ftw.

 

[Gindler]

Should the bucket really count? G&W can't even charge it (which was the requirement), he needs to absorb them thanks to someone else...

 

[NessUserAnton]

Ness

PK Thunder 2. From the middle of FD to Mario.
kills at 32%.

Ironically. Full Charged PK Flash
52%

Fully Charged bat from the middle fd on Mario is still

49%

So.

Average is 44.3%.

Does Ness win?

 

[PK-ow!]

I'm surprised how weak Falco is.

How? You didn't notice his only worthy kill move beyond the spike is a Smash close to the edge?

This doesn't seem the right way to do it. I mean how often does Luigi land a Super Dragon Punch? And I give Ness players a lot of credit for their PKT mindgames, but PKT2 kills still are something that it doesn't make sense to look at for a list like this.

You wanna look at how K.O.'s go in actual games. It has to use non-quantifiable sense at some point before the math, but sorry, that's how it is.

 

[da K.I.D.]

when i came into this thread, the title said, "strength tier list", not "strength tier list but only for attacks that you can hit with in the final round of a tournament" so include all attacks, regardless of wether they can normally hit on really good people or not.

that being said.

Sonic for bottom of bottom tier

for anyone who can test, use forward smash, the first part of down smash, and back air, in that order. im guessing the average to kill mario from the middle of FD should be around 155, if not higher

 

[da K.I.D.]

Ness

PK Thunder 2. From the middle of FD to Mario.
kills at 32%.

Ironically. Full Charged PK Flash
52%

Fully Charged bat from the middle fd on Mario is still

49%

So.

Average is 44.3%.

Does Ness win?

no because we are only using c stick smashes for this experiment

 

[PkTrainerCris]

also, i think that pk flash counts as a chargable move that does not let you move while performing it.... i think ivysaur is igh, with usmash,uair and sweetspoted vinewhip

 

[MRTW113]

bottom attack power: shiek, wolf pit MK ZSS squirtle

 

[PrinceMarthX]

I mean how often does Luigi land a Super Dragon Punch?

In the hands of a good Luigi? Often. At least once per match.

Should the bucket really count? G&W can't even charge it (which was the requirement), he needs to absorb them thanks to someone else...

Requirements were: being able to move while charging or move while charged. It does the latter.

for anyone who can test, use forward smash, the first part of down smash, and back air, in that order. im guessing the average to kill mario from the middle of FD should be around 155, if not higher

Sonic:
dsmash: 124
fsmash: 117
bair: 134
~ 125

So far: Falco, Meta Knight and Diddy Kong are worse.

 

[Greenstreet]

just do lucario at 80%, coz thats wat a kirbario is set as

 

[PrinceMarthX]

Squirtle
up smash: 95%
forward smash: 125%
down smash: 145%

average: 121.6

---

Ivysaur
up smash: 59%
up air: 92%
forward smash: 107%

average: 86

---

Charizard
forward smash: 87%
rock smash: 98%
up smash: 104%

average: 96.3

 

[SmashBrother2008]

Here is a list that I made a long time ago. It is basically the average amount of damage that a character will inflict per move/attack. What I did was add up the amount of damage all of a characters moves did and divide them by the number of moves that they had that did damage.

 

[LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME]

May I ask why only c-stick smashes? That's not the strongest an opponent can be hit. Charging charges up power--this thread is supposed to make a thread on who is the strongest.... it makes sense to use fully charged smashes..?

 

[PrinceMarthX]

Peach
up smash: 80%
forward air: 133%
forward tilt: 139%

average: 117.3

---

Wolf
down smash: 118%
up smash: 127%
up tilt: 130%

average: 125

---

Ice Climbers
up smash: 114%
forward smash: 131%
belay: 139%

average: 128

---

Ness
PK Thunder: 35%
forward smash: 92%
back air: 114%

average: 80.3

---

Lucas
up smash: 76%
down smash: 93%
forward smash: 96%

average: 88.3

---

Olimar
up smash: 79%
down smash: 98%
forward smash: 100%

average: 92.3

 

[PrinceMarthX]

And with that, I'm finished. Here's the tier list for KO power.

Top tier
Ganondorf
Mr. Game & Watch
Donkey Kong
King Dedede

High tier
Zelda
Captain Falcon
Lucario
Luigi
Ike
Ness
Snake
Bowser
Ivysaur
Lucas

Middle tier
Wario
Olimar
Kirby
Jigglypuff
Marth
Charizard
Pikachu
Link
Toon Link
Yoshi
Fox
Peach
R.O.B.

Low tier
Squirtle
Zero Suit Samus
Mario
Samus
Sheik
Pit
Sonic
Wolf
Falco
Ice Climbers

Bottom tier
Meta Knight
Diddy Kong

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

metaknight is... BOTTOM TIER???
and to think ppl want him banned lol.

 

[Samuelson]

This should be done with more than just 3 moves and you should count judgement and Luigi's misfire. All because they aren't reliable doesn't mean that they dont count as moves. You should also use DDD's gordo.