Step it up wolf mains :D *Kind Long No TL;DR*

[Deleted member]

Sooooo this is gonna be not too long but not too short. Im guessing most of you dont know me, im burntsocks
I was previously a yoshi main, one of the best (not to be cocky just the truth) but after active gamers i decided that i cant stay consistent enough with him, and wolf is a pretty flashy character and fun too, and also a character that i feel has plenty of room to grow. I'm not very good with him yet, but enough about me, the point of the thread:

I feel that wolf is NOT being played to his full potential at ALL.
First thing, just a basic thing: Shine is not safe on block. Full hopped shine is the only thing kind of safe on block. Shine is not a move like back air, you cannot throw it out. It is a punisher for when a character has no options to punish, such as certain characters above you(if you watch i think it was JJ wolf vs Fow friendlies, you can see JJ uses full hop shine while ness is coming down to foward air, this is a very good application of this move) , it can be used to punish moves that you know are coming , and it edge guards. Thats it. Stop abusing it .

Secondly and more importantly: Weave more.
Kay so i see these wolves, they are kinda good players, they know their character i guess.
But WOLF HAS GOOD AIR SPEED AND GOOD SAFE LONG RANGED AUTOCANCELLED AERIALS! To go along with this, he has amazing punishes from grabs with a great pummel and downthrow. This character, against many characters, can weave around opponents shields, a little bit like squirtle, mixing up his weave with fairs and bairs, and grabbing, jabbing or ftilting on landing. However, squirtle is obviously more mobile in the air, with better grab range and throws, so doesnt squritle do this much better? Thats where wolfs normal spacing game comes in. Mixing in this weaving with wolfs bair zoning, lazer camping, and other normal spacing moves, wolf becomes VERY hard to predict, VERY hard to punish if done correctly, and well, good.

Thirdly, stop killing yourself, stop being stupid offstage, and stop using up b and recovering from below! Im sure most good wolf players already know this. Wolf is not meant for that, hes meant for super unpredictable onstage play, and you can edgeguard safely.


Feel free to personally attack me, or, if you're feeling really racy, actually argue my points, i could be wrong ^^

 

[Dv8tor]

Some good points, nice to have you join us in our fight to make Wofl better. I don't have any input at the moment as I don't feel I have the necessary experience yet.

Good luck here, we are a funny bunch of players.

 

[Deleted member]

Thanks :D Ima be going all wolf in tourny for a month so I can hopefully get a good grasp of this character
People dont have to listen to me, its also for myself, to write out my ideas.
One more point Im gonna add later is fighting against getting gayed.
Im gonna do that once i have more experience against good D3s and falcos, prolly this weekend ill play nyjin and AC and stuff

 

[Seagull Joe]

I'm just gonna post what pierce said which sums up wolf
Pierce:
Wolf is in a similar boat to Fox. A great projectile, coupled with a couple of good pokes and excellent punishing make Wolf pretty solid. He's also heavier than Fox, and has his own reliable kills. Bair also gives Wolf a solid zoning tool. A common question is what makes Wolf so bad with all these good qualities? The answer lies in everything gay. I always say Wolf is the worst good character in this game. He'd be viable if he didn't get ***** by pretty much every gay thing in this game. He's caught by everyone's chain-grab. In fact, he's the only space animal that gets caught in D3's chain-grab. Name any gay tactic, or any chain-grab a character can perform, and I bet you it works on Wolf. He's just heavy enough, falls just fast enough, and is just tall enough to get ***** by Brawl at large. This lands him in D-Tier.

And everything you said I already know, but thanks for input.


Also if you in san diego(socal) you know yourself that in norcal a wolf is on the PR.

 

[Deleted member]

Yea i do.
Never seen choice's wolf, im sure its probably pretty good.

And yea i read pierce's thing, this isnt like arguing against that, just some things i feel need to be improved on.

Also, i can almost guarentee you arent doing the kind of weaving im talking about ^ ^

 

[Seagull Joe]

Yea i do.
Never seen choice's wolf, im sure its probably pretty good.

And yea i read pierce's thing, this isnt like arguing against that, just some things i feel need to be improved on.

Also, i can almost guarentee you arent doing the kind of weaving im talking about ^ ^

What are you talking about? I play like JJ more then anyone else since he taught me wolf. O_O

 

[Seagull Joe]

Sooooo this is gonna be not too long but not too short. Im guessing most of you dont know me, im burntsocks
I was previously a yoshi main, one of the best (not to be cocky just the truth) but after active gamers i decided that i cant stay consistent enough with him, and wolf is a pretty flashy character and fun too, and also a character that i feel has plenty of room to grow. I'm not very good with him yet, but enough about me, the point of the thread:

I feel that wolf is NOT being played to his full potential at ALL.
First thing, just a basic thing: Shine is not safe on block. Full hopped shine is the only thing kind of safe on block. Shine is not a move like back air, you cannot throw it out. It is a punisher for when a character has no options to punish, such as certain characters above you(if you watch i think it was JJ wolf vs Fow friendlies, you can see JJ uses full hop shine while ness is coming down to foward air, this is a very good application of this move) , it can be used to punish moves that you know are coming , and it edge guards. Thats it. Stop abusing it .

Secondly and more importantly: Weave more.
Kay so i see these wolves, they are kinda good players, they know their character i guess.
But WOLF HAS GOOD AIR SPEED AND GOOD SAFE LONG RANGED AUTOCANCELLED AERIALS! To go along with this, he has amazing punishes from grabs with a great pummel and downthrow. This character, against many characters, can weave around opponents shields, a little bit like squirtle, mixing up his weave with fairs and bairs, and grabbing, jabbing or ftilting on landing. However, squirtle is obviously more mobile in the air, with better grab range and throws, so doesnt squritle do this much better? Thats where wolfs normal spacing game comes in. Mixing in this weaving with wolfs bair zoning, lazer camping, and other normal spacing moves, wolf becomes VERY hard to predict, VERY hard to punish if done correctly, and well, good.

Thirdly, stop killing yourself, stop being stupid offstage, and stop using up b and recovering from below! Im sure most good wolf players already know this. Wolf is not meant for that, hes meant for super unpredictable onstage play, and you can edgeguard safely.


Feel free to personally attack me, or, if you're feeling really racy, actually argue my points, i could be wrong ^^

Time to break down this long *** text block paragraph thing:
- I think all wolf's know how to recover and don't get gimped too much if they know what they are doing unless they telestep and fall and die (wolf curse).
-Wolf isn't viable alone.
-Ftilt on shield is the worst idea because it has long ending lag and it is punished severely
-Nobody uses the word weaving in brawl. Confuses people.
-Wolf has great offstage options for opponents. Dair, Shine spike, Laser gimp, Bair kill. Recovering back is simple.
-Lazor camping doesn't work because it is easily powershielded forcing wolf to approach almost always.
-You mentioned nothing about wolf's fsmash or dacus which are key space tools.

If you think my wolf doesn't WEAVE and I don't know what I'm talking about then watch a vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKhMdZ2BdSk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUqM75ncSao
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gbo_AL6KU1g
I am one of the top wolves on east coast, but meh

 

[Deleted member]

**** good ****.
^^
Haha i dont know another word for weaving?

Ok forget the recovering part that wasnt for like good wolves xD
I said nothing about fsmash and dacus because i know people are using them
This isnt a guide to play wolf at all, i have been maining him for less than a week. This is more theory craft and observation than actual experience(actually its completely theory craft and observation :D)

Ftilt is bad on shield yes, goood on spotdodges tho.
Wolf is probably not viable alone yes.

Lazer camping does work you cant just like stand there and shoot. Just like throwing in short hope and full hop lazers along with bairs and that, you know.

 

[Seagull Joe]

**** good ****.
^^
Haha i dont know another word for weaving?

Ok forget the recovering part that wasnt for like good wolves xD
I said nothing about fsmash and dacus because i know people are using them
This isnt a guide to play wolf at all, i have been maining him for less than a week. This is more theory craft and observation than actual experience(actually its completely theory craft and observation :D)

Ftilt is bad on shield yes, goood on spotdodges tho.
Wolf is probably not viable alone yes.

Lazer camping does work you cant just like stand there and shoot. Just like throwing in short hope and full hop lazers along with bairs and that, you know.

Yeah I guess the bad wolfs can learn something from what you said, but when you said WEAVE I truely had no idea what you meant so I had to reread your thing a few times. Made me laugh. You could've said move around or space? Maybe. Who knows. lol. Like pierce said though. Wolf is good, but if there is a cg wolf gets in it. The only cg that doesn't work is the yoshi which is ironic cause he is your old main. I know your name cause green ace has told me you were the best yoshi on the west coast. Ec>Wc I hope you do good with wolf. =)

 

[Ishiey]

I feel that wolf is NOT being played to his full potential at ALL.

Very very true. I'll just leave it at that.

First thing, just a basic thing: Shine is not safe on block. Full hopped shine is the only thing kind of safe on block. Shine is not a move like back air, you cannot throw it out. It is a punisher for when a character has no options to punish, such as certain characters above you(if you watch i think it was JJ wolf vs Fow friendlies, you can see JJ uses full hop shine while ness is coming down to foward air, this is a very good application of this move) , it can be used to punish moves that you know are coming , and it edge guards. Thats it. Stop abusing it .

Also very true, but shine can still be used as a counter to moves you pretty much know are coming or to escape from combos and the like. Of course they can bait your shine and punish it, but you can't tell me that one should disregard the usefulness of a coutnerattack with instant invincibility. Correctly predict your opponent, and a shine can land 12% on your opponent (shine>jab combo). But your point still stands, it is far from worthy of abuse and the safest implementation is a good jumpshine.

Secondly and more importantly: Weave more.
Kay so i see these wolves, they are kinda good players, they know their character i guess.
But WOLF HAS GOOD AIR SPEED AND GOOD SAFE LONG RANGED AUTOCANCELLED AERIALS! To go along with this, he has amazing punishes from grabs with a great pummel and downthrow. This character, against many characters, can weave around opponents shields, a little bit like squirtle, mixing up his weave with fairs and bairs, and grabbing, jabbing or ftilting on landing. However, squirtle is obviously more mobile in the air, with better grab range and throws, so doesnt squritle do this much better? Thats where wolfs normal spacing game comes in. Mixing in this weaving with wolfs bair zoning, lazer camping, and other normal spacing moves, wolf becomes VERY hard to predict, VERY hard to punish if done correctly, and well, good.

This is definitely something I need to be doing more of, and a pretty good point. Most tournament-active Wolves do this already though. Crossup game from a FH bair is a classic example, and very effective.

Thirdly, stop killing yourself, stop being stupid offstage, and stop using up b and recovering from below! Im sure most good wolf players already know this. Wolf is not meant for that, hes meant for super unpredictable onstage play, and you can edgeguard safely.

Yes. Well, I guess being stupid offstage is really fun, but Wolf players in general need to learn what will get them killed and what won't. Sometimes it can actually be very effective, but as you said, far from a safe idea.

Feel free to personally attack me, or, if you're feeling really racy, actually argue my points, i could be wrong ^^

You're more or less right, and I wish you the best of luck with Wolf

Also, Pierce is wrong, Wolf doesn't have a gay grab release animation

 

[castorpollux]

no need to hate.

burntstocks is right. Wolf mains need to step it up (me included. I've been super lazy)

 

[MidnightAsaph]

I knew what you meant about weaving as soon as I saw you say it. Weaving is sexy, and I feel that Zen did the best job of this (certain vid where he was really fluid/unpredictable). Don't remember where it is though, I think he was playing Marth.

Offstage, Wolf can be dangerous, we just don't like to be offstage while the opponent is onstage. Last smashfest I was at, a player expected me to stay onstage because of Wolf's weaknesses, but I was unpredictable and jumped all the way to the corner of the screen and baired him in the face. He was a pretty competent player.

Point is, I think I get the unpredictability concept. Wolf mains need to abuse what is expected of them and do something completely different. Weaving is a good example of this. Never jump offstage like I do. I'm a hardcore-offstage Wolf. lol

I feel that if you're good enough, you can use Wolf viably. No one here is at that level, of course, but secondaries are a necessity til that 'godly' level is reached with Wolf.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Been sharing lots of things with JJ via AIM. Neither of us have been at a tourney in a while ... in my case it's because there aren't too many in my area. But I've been looking into a bunch of things and found some interesting stuff. I just need to learn to implement it into my game. Tounrey expereince would help a lot but there's nothing I can do about that.

Burnstocks, if you got something new or want to know something just IM me. My AIM's in my profile.
Also, Zudenka > you

 

[Deleted member]

Maybe, but i beat DEHF last weekend ^^

Btw i hope no one is offended by saying step it up XD

Seagull, sorry if you dont understand what i meant, i guess i meant crossups i just forgot the word

I also dont feel wolf needs a secondary unless you are trying to like win regionals. I'm gonna start placing very high though ^^
Maybe for shiek or something though, that matchup seems tricky, good thing no one plays shiek :D
Give me a month haha.

 

[Metatitan]

He'll main wolf for a week and then switch

 

[MidnightAsaph]

I also dont feel wolf needs a secondary unless you are trying to like win regionals. I'm gonna start placing very high though ^^
Maybe for shiek or something though, that matchup seems tricky, good thing no one plays shiek :D
Give me a month haha.

Well, dude, welcome to the Wolf boards. I hope you can do a lot with Wolf.

 

[Deleted member]

LOL
Shut up.
I really wont ^_^

Edit: That was at metatitan.

Also thanks guys

 

[Metatitan]

Characters burntsocks has "decided to main for realz" and dropped (and went back to yoshi):

GW
DDD
IC's
Random
Jigglypuff
Samus
Zss
Falcon
Ganon

That's all I can remember for now but you get the idea. Aren't I just amazingly nice and sweet

 

[KRDsonic]

Characters burntsocks has "decided to main for realz" and dropped (and went back to yoshi):

GW
DDD
IC's
Random
Jigglypuff
Samus
Zss
Falcon
Ganon

That's all I can remember for now but you get the idea. Aren't I just amazingly nice and sweet

Hey, I remember you.

Anyways, sounds a lot like he's how I used to be with alts xD.

 

[Metatitan]

Yoshi mains are pretty close-knit. Even when we quit we make sure to troll each other.

Quit yoshi that is.

 

[KRDsonic]

I quit Yoshi over a year ago. He's the only character I ever mained before IC

Wait... but you trolled me before too. Darn your logic being true! xD

 

[Deleted member]

Go away christian.

 

[Metatitan]

go Away Christian.

......... :>

 

[Delta-cod]

I was scrolling through the character boards list when I saw Meta had the last post in the boards, so I had to check it out. =D

And Meta's right. Especially about the trolling thing. You even despise Yoshi and you still do it. >_<

 

[Metatitan]

I was scrolling through the character boards list when I saw Meta had the last post in the boards, so I had to check it out. =D

And Meta's right. Especially about the trolling thing. You even despise Yoshi and you still do it. >_<

I actually LOVE yoshi to death, one of my favorite if not favorite nintendo character. His playstyle just bored me after while.

 

[Deleted member]

So uhh seagull....
Seeing as you decided to quote Pierce's list...
Maybe ill do the same to illustrate a silly point:
"Similar to Wario, she can weave"

Were you laughing there too?
:D
<3

 

[ArcPoint]

I'm still not entirely sure of your definition of weaving.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wonIezsrfXI&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tddvh7dNMDk&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEjLPvIlhOA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCHQuQpESl8

Do I do it very often? And can you explain when so I know what you mean?

 

[Deleted member]

Weaving (burntsocks pro definition XD):
Basically a crossup (I THINK), what i mean is that with certain characters with quick safe aerials and very good air speed, you are using the aerial and landing behind them. Weaving as in weaving around the opponents shield, back and forth.
However i dont mean just like go from one side to the otherXD

Sorry its really hard to explain haha

I only watched the last match and you did not do it at all.
Its basically a pressure tactic

 

[ArcPoint]

Only problem is you have to get them to shield first... that was hard vs SuSa. He's good D=

 

[MidnightAsaph]

Yeah, that's weaving. Like I said, Zen did it in a video once and it flowed really nicely. I would do it too, but I have a knack for getting grabbed because I'm a magnet to failure.

But Wolf does have the potential to be a very sudden, spontaneous character, and all wolves should look more into that.

 

[Deleted member]

Only problem is you have to get them to shield first... that was hard vs SuSa. He's good D=

I know i played him a bit at active gamers (although they werent very serious matches), hes pretty solid.
You can always get them in their shield, he was just outreading you =/

 

[rvkevin]

Only problem is you have to get them to shield first... that was hard vs SuSa. He's good D=

Think about Wario and you understand weaving. Going in close when its safe and getting away before its not. They don't necessarily need to be shielding.

 

[Deleted member]

Exactly.
You arent doing it necessarily as a reaction to shielding, in fact, thats something that lots of characters will punish you for.
You want to force a shield and then punish it.

 

[choice_brawler]

l2english seagull =p

but yea, we all gotta step it up. i think its cool that people are always like "hey can you help me out with the wolf match up?" cuz i figure my teaching them will help them beat other wolf's, but theres like no other wolf's for them to play besides me =/ (at tourneys in norcal, i know you're going to tag arc.)

we step it up -> people see us **** -> more people play wolf -> wolf's metagame gets better faster

 

[MidnightAsaph]

we step it up -> people see us **** -> more people play wolf -> wolf's metagame gets better faster

I don't know about your end, but Seagull and I are hopefully going to accomplish this by the end of the school year. I'm shooting for a known name by summer ( not universally known, but you get the point).

ARE WE GONNA **** GULL!?! LET ME HEAR UR ENTHUSIASM!

 

[Seagull Joe]

I don't know about your end, but Seagull and I are hopefully going to accomplish this by the end of the school year. I'm shooting for a known name by summer ( not universally known, but you get the point).

ARE WE GONNA **** GULL!?! LET ME HEAR UR ENTHUSIASM!

 

[KRDsonic]

I seem to be the only one that doesn't want more people picking up Wolf. I don't want him to become another Ice Climbers where I started using him before he was good and then one broken tech is found and then everyone flocks to him D: Every time I pick someone up as a character I plan to use in tournaments they always end up moving up the tier list quite a bit xD. Happened with IC and Sheik.

 

[Seagull Joe]

I seem to be the only one that doesn't want more people picking up Wolf. I don't want him to become another Ice Climbers where I started using him before he was good and then one broken tech is found and then everyone flocks to him D: Every time I pick someone up as a character I plan to use in tournaments they always end up moving up the tier list quite a bit xD. Happened with IC and Sheik.

Don't worry. Most wolfs will give up wolf once they realize how bad they lose to falcos, mks, and d3s. Rather then learn the matchup they will quit for high tiers. This will happen. My prediction will become reality.

 

[Deleted member]

That.
How the hell is falco even btw, you cannot avoid getting grabbed by a good falco.
xD

Then they can just cg you to 60 and spike and even if you tech it you still are gonna lose xD

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Nobody said Falco is even? You CAN avoid getting grabbed for a while at least until you dished out some damage yourself. Bair -> fsmash is a true combo and deals 30% alone and that's half of what the CG does right there. If the Falco focuses too much on grabbing you he's getting ***** for it anyway but even if he manages to grab you he only made up for his lacking of KO power/weight, something Wolf is a lot better at.

Falco wins because he can be just stupid with his lasers ... like most of his other match-ups. The CG only helps him to get a lead if he manages to grab you.