Starting to play melee again - Picking up Mario

[Gimpyfish62]

suuuuuuuuuup

i haven't played melee in a really long time - but i've always loved the way top level link and mario's play - so i'm picking them both up.

i know them both on a fairly basic level and i know some general combo strats to use but uhh... guess i'll throw some questions out there as if the mario forums are active or somethin.

how do you tend to land grabs with mario vs characters that have a heavy sheild pressure game?

how do you tend to do uhh ANYTHING vs actual good and extremely technical foxes that you cant say "punish his mistakes" against?

mario's up tilt perplexes me because i always get hit by it but can never seem to find the right place to use it - how do i land this?

does mario have a decent cc game? what does he do AGAINST cc?

mario has some weird shield pressure stuff with jabs and grabs and the like - how do you DEAL with shield pressure though?

how do you tend to recover against good players

should i throw a fireball at every concievable opportunity because i love fireballs

what is the coolest thing you can do out of thunders? (i always want to do fair -> fair thunders fair -> fair tech chase fsmash for a kill - sounds tiiiiight but overall just silly hahahahaha)

i could just ask eggz all these questions - but i'm asking you guys anyways to get a second opinion - so don't say "talk to eggz" or something because i am lol

give me some random tips lol

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

don't taunt unless you feel lucky great to have you back mario/dr. mario have the 2# worst grab range next to pikachu(1#)

 

[NES n00b]

Grab with Link when you think your opponent is going to sit in his sheild and I mean just truly sit there. This isn't too uncommon for it to happen since everyone knows that Link spam his grabs.

You out predict foxes. duh. How do you beat fox's with bowser? lol Be more specific.

Uptilt to pressure sheilds when you think it is safe or they are going to get out of their sheild. Or you can cleanly stop some approaches (just like Link's except you have to use his backwards).

He has an above average CC game where you can dsmash or grab. The only way he can stop CC is fair and grab really.

Learn to wavedash out of sheild the right times. Also, alot of the genric stuff you need to know to get out of sheild pressure.

Recovery for who? Mario just fireballs and stall so they don't have invinicibilty then figure out whether to sweetspot etc. For Link it is a little more complicated but always go for sweetspot with him. You will have to decide whether someone is going to go out and try to hit you of which drop down up b. If they are going to wait on the edge, airdodge hookshot. Against falco bascially always hookshot cause they can't do **** if you are all the way out there.

Throw fireballs at a pretty safe distance ie. a little farther than shffl range unless you think you are going to get outspammed. Why not use it if you can? lol

Again which character? but since Link and Mario are gonna have some kind of miracle to get thunders (especially link) and you asked "coolest" I don't think I will attempt this one.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

think about when you beat people with bowser at one point they may **** you, think what link/mario did ,how did they recover, what combos when easy to get out of ,and which where harder to get out of and just try stuff out before you ask to see if he feels right for you before you try and try then fail because you don't really try and mario is great for edge game if they are good think for minute (I always think of your laughs like bowser's)

 

[taste_the_beast]

you shoulda never stopped yoo

 

[iMichael]

suuuuuuuuuup

- sup?

i haven't played melee in a really long time - but i've always loved the way top level link and mario's play - so i'm picking them both up.

- tight

i know them both on a fairly basic level and i know some general combo strats to use but uhh... guess i'll throw some questions out there as if the mario forums are active or somethin.

- lol

how do you tend to land grabs with link vs characters that have a heavy sheild pressure game?

- Link boards?

how do you tend to do uhh ANYTHING vs actual good and extremely technical foxes that you cant say "punish his mistakes" against?

- I usually just cg them or dthrow to dsmash them and once their off stage it's fairly easy lol

mario's up tilt perplexes me because i always get hit by it but can never seem to find the right place to use it - how do i land this?

- easiest way to use it is to upthrow or dthrow to uptilt

does mario have a decent cc game? what does he do AGAINST cc?

Been a while..i dunno. tilt the fsmash up

mario has some weird shield pressure stuff with jabs and grabs and the like - how do you DEAL with shield pressure though?

- shieldgrab

how do you tend to recover against good players?

spam fireballs to create and opening or a distraction

should i throw a fireball at every concievable opportunity because i love fireballs?

yayuhzz

what is the coolest thing you can do out of thunders? (i always want to do fair -> fair thunders fair -> fair tech chase fsmash for a kill - sounds tiiiiight but overall just silly hahahahaha)



i could just ask eggz all these questions - but i'm asking you guys anyways to get a second opinion - so don't say "talk to eggz" or something because i am lol

- tell Shane I said "what up"

give me some random tips lol

- learn to up-B to walljump to up-B again. Yoshi's and FD. Shane is the only one to hit it on FD though...

- learn to set up "upair blindz"

- bair + waveland + bair + waveland across the stage is pretty dope and is good to hit big characters that are already off stage like (Bowser, DK, Ganon etc...)

- boost grab so you can hear Mario say "wahoo" or "wahaa" when he grabs lol

- I'm pretty sure you've seen Shane do something sick and pause the screen so that he can zoom in on Mario's butt and then unpause lol...I've picked that up and it gets people mad lol. Do it quick though lol

- I don't like the cape...that's just me (it's gay)

Mario boards is straight up dead lmao...it's never poppin in here lol

 

[Gimpyfish62]

oops i left a "link" in the midst of the mario - my bad LOL

uhh bowser vs mario is a matchup that fox has to adjust heavily for in order to do ANYTHING - bowser doesn't have to worry about shield pressure shine spikes up throw up air etc etc etc bowser has a lot of serious advantages against fox - it's still a horrible matchup so don't get carried away lol - but it's absolutely nothing like mario vs fox though thinking about how my bowser plays vs foxes isn't going to help AT ALL o.O

also

mario has some weird shield pressure stuff with jabs and grabs and the like - how do you DEAL with shield pressure though?

- shieldgrab

apparently you don't know hwat actual shield pressure is - shield grab doesn't work against shield pressure done correctly. this would work if i didn't live in washington maybe lol

 

[#HBC | Mac]

don't taunt unless you feel lucky great to have you back mario/dr. mario have the 2# worst grab range next to pikachu(1#)

this is false...
you give alot of... not so great advice in many of the char specific forums.

 

[NES n00b]

oops i left a "link" in the midst of the mario - my bad LOL

uhh bowser vs mario is a matchup that fox has to adjust heavily for in order to do ANYTHING - bowser doesn't have to worry about shield pressure shine spikes up throw up air etc etc etc bowser has a lot of serious advantages against fox - it's still a horrible matchup so don't get carried away lol - but it's absolutely nothing like mario vs fox though thinking about how my bowser plays vs foxes isn't going to help AT ALL o.O

Most scrub foxs have problems with Mario's wavedash back and crouch cancelling not to mention somewhat hard time getting kills without upthrow upairs and problems drill shining to wavedash upsmash, but you are playing people who are used to playing against Mario so here goes I guess.

Ok then......Fox's nair beats out your nair so only use it if you can hit him before he does his nair or if you know he is going to be on the ground and not uptilt you. Dair around fox's top, upair timed right, and uptilt beats fox's nair while almost anything beats his dair in the air. You need to get grabs in this matchup it is essential. The only way to really do that is to pressure sheilds right with jab to grab and wavedashing back and grab a fox after his nair/dair of which you then upthrow upsmash or chaingrab at low percents uptilt at medium percents and upair/nair at somewhat high percents depending if you think they will DI up or away respecitvely and downthrow dsmash/fsmash at kill percents.

Sheildpressuring is essentially full hop dairs to upairs or bairs with different mixs of jabs, uptilts, and attempted grabs in between. To edgeguard...cape and bair with maybe a fireball here and there you know how to probably.

Short version do not attack Fox's attacks or even him head on. You have to wait or force him to make mistakes. You must get grabs. Edgeguard.

 

[iMichael]

oops i left a "link" in the midst of the mario - my bad LOL

uhh bowser vs mario is a matchup that fox has to adjust heavily for in order to do ANYTHING - bowser doesn't have to worry about shield pressure shine spikes up throw up air etc etc etc bowser has a lot of serious advantages against fox - it's still a horrible matchup so don't get carried away lol - but it's absolutely nothing like mario vs fox though thinking about how my bowser plays vs foxes isn't going to help AT ALL o.O

also



apparently you don't know hwat actual shield pressure is - shield grab doesn't work against shield pressure done correctly. this would work if i didn't live in washington maybe lol

lol yeah WA is ****

 

[halcyon.days]

I don't really play many foxes so I can't help you here >_> but I would just assume to wait for them to make a mistake (a la captain falcon style) and chain grab them to death.

Use Mario's utilt after a uthrow.

Mario's the only character I really CC with, since CC -> dsmash works pretty good. Against CCers not much to do except fake them out and grab them.

Mario's recovery is stupid, because it's bad. But his grab range after his up-B is stupidly big. Usually tornado -> cape -> dj (or cape again for stall) -> cape (if you didn't dj first) to up B or air dodge.

I luurrrvvee spamming fireballs. I do it whenever I can.


I'm not sure how helpful this advice is since I only just started playing Mario as well.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Speaking of Foxes, dthrow to fsmash works really well from like... 120%ish onwards.

 

[halcyon.days]

Speaking of Foxes, dthrow to fsmash works really well from like... 120%ish onwards.

So does dtilt -> Fsmash.

E: Also, jab-jab-kick (or whatever A+A+A does) it good for setting up an edge guard against fox at around 80+ %

 

[BrianTheLion]

learn up-b walljump on yoshi's its so good

 

[Gimpyfish62]

i've been able to recover from the pole on FoD for like 3 years i can up b walljump just fine XD

 

[iMichael]

lol that's what's up. I never even thought of trying that out...gotta try that later on.

 

[Gea]

how do you tend to land grabs with mario vs characters that have a heavy sheild pressure game?

Jabs. Jab once or twice, dash JC grab. The most effective way to get grabs at all. Mario's grab range isn't that good. Occasionally you can land a uair/utilt at good percents and they lead to possible grabs... or just be aggressive with a WD forward and grab. Otherwise you're really depending on mistakes and jabs.

It really shows off the weakness of the character because they (Mario and Doc) are so dependant on grabs but don't really have a strong game in getting them.

how do you tend to do uhh ANYTHING vs actual good and extremely technical foxes that you cant say "punish his mistakes" against?

You don't. You HAVE to force a whiff or mistake and punish. Another flaw of Mario. Basically you can't stop moving- this is very important. Waveland everywhere and mix in dash dances with your wavedash. Seriously, be MOBILE. Waveland aerials when you can as well. Mario is easy to platform cancel/edge cancel aerials with. Slide off of them and keep going.

Then know that ftilt is pretty long. Learn the spacing for it. Ftilt screws people up and its a generally safe move. Your other option (and a cool one is occasionally full hopping dairs over the Fox. If they jump into it... leads to a uair/bair and it a great way to mess up their flow.

If they come in from straight above you, utilt. Don't challenge their nair like ever.

Also you can wall of bair pretty effectively, just don't rely on it. I mean sometimes its best to just turn around and start bair double jump bair waveland repeat as a wall. It works better than you might think.

mario's up tilt perplexes me because i always get hit by it but can never seem to find the right place to use it - how do i land this?

Out of grabs, and aerials without alot of vert range (so you don't trade hits if they want to nip your head with say a dair). Basically if someone is coming down from above you, utilt. You'll learn more times to use it. Jab to utilt can work at times, and I've seen Mario players even techchase with it (wtf?) before trying to set up for an angled fsmash.

FoD is your friend when it comes to utilt. The platforms help.

Against characters that aren't like Sheik or Marth, you can utilt shields semi-safely with good spacing. It works sometimes.

does mario have a decent cc game? what does he do AGAINST cc?

It is okay. You can dsmash out of your CC and that's your best option. Against CC? What every other character does. They either counter CC at low %s or they take the hit. Obviously if you're playing against a Spamus, don't get that close at really low %s with a weaker move. It shouldn't really be an issue though.

A bad habit to have is to CC getting hit by attacks because Mario's recovery ain't so hot like that, but you played Boozer so you should know.

mario has some weird shield pressure stuff with jabs and grabs and the like - how do you DEAL with shield pressure though?

Don't forget Mario has decent shield pressure with dairing the tops of shields. It works semi-well and you can get two dairs in before having to (wave)land.

Depends on the character and stage. Generally you don't have that many options. You can attempt to nair out of shield or wavedash - shield away... and rarely if there are platforms and you feel risky you can up + B out of shield, but Mario doesn't have that great of a solution to it.

Oh. Except for one thing. Lightshield. It knocks you back and messes up with shieldpressure more than you'd think.

how do you tend to recover against good players

Obviously it depends on if they have projectiles or are like Falcon... but down B, jump, cape, up +B. Use fireballs if you can. Sometimes you're forced into up+bing through the person to get back onto the stage instead of the ledge. Its worth it.

When you tech on the ledge do not walljump tech. You then have to cape -> tornado just to make it back to the edge. Or you know, you have to up + B really high and come down defenseless. Just don't do it. Also Mario has fairly good snap, so if you get really good with it you can space it so you never actually touch the ledge and are completely below it. The down to this is that you can't edgetech... the plus is that if you do it perfectly Marth can't even dtilt you, you're too low. But using the snap this well consistently is hard.

should i throw a fireball at every concievable opportunity because i love fireballs

Against certain characters, yes. Be wary against ones like Fox and Falcon who can easily get through and punish you for it though. Learn to waveland 'em, short hop them, when to use regular ones, etc. They all give different bounces and people who use jabs to swat them away can get hit in the face by high ones.

what is the coolest thing you can do out of thunders? (i always want to do fair -> fair thunders fair -> fair tech chase fsmash for a kill - sounds tiiiiight but overall just silly hahahahaha)

Get used to using wds more than the run to techchase.

Oh lawd. They can tech out of the fair but I assume you know that... The most useful thing is probably grab, but the coolest thing? No idea.

Anyways, this is coming from a Doc player but... well. The ideas are the same within the questions you asked.

 

[Super Mari0]

how do you tend to land grabs with mario vs characters that have a heavy sheild pressure game?
wavedash to grab is always very useful... and emptyaerials to grabs work fine too, just gotta be careful when to use it

how do you tend to do uhh ANYTHING vs actual good and extremely technical foxes that you cant say "punish his mistakes" against?
oh i see, fox likes to fulljump nair so fulljump dair for mario is always a very effective approach, its defensive and you can do a double jump for mindgames and other useful movements like waveland on a platform
but you have to play defensively and spam fireballs, also try fulljump to bair to fast fall bair to repeat in the right time, if the first hit hits then you can land the second one and if THAT one hits, you can grab him easily --> chaingrab and if youre good, just K.O. him with a combo, its simple actually, especially against fox, they cant do much if youre good

mario's up tilt perplexes me because i always get hit by it but can never seem to find the right place to use it - how do i land this?
wavedash to uptilt is a good mindgame for a change but you cant overdo it because over time good players will know whats up and **** you up so just do it at the right time
also opponents coming from above dont have many options when you time the uptilt correctly, you can combo them easily
also waiting for an approach and staying still and doing an uptilt once the opponnent approaches isnt quite so dumb either, its all about mindgames but after upthrows against NON FAST FALLERS, its good, against fast faller only do the uptilt if he has lotsa % like over 70 or something

does mario have a decent cc game? what does he do AGAINST cc?
its actually kinda lame imo, but if you have to do it, yeah dsmash is good, also crouch cancel to TAP A is epic. you can do all sorts of things from there on (grab to combo his ***)
also, crouch cancel to upsmash is nice but its not really that easy doing it fast

against cc, when its obvious, do empty aerials to shield (especially samus has a problem because when you shield, she cant grab you (coz SHES TOO SLOOOOOW!) lol )
also, against characters like peach, dont go too near, do lots of fulljump DAIRS and space them well, do attacks like ftilt if the opponent likes to cc alot, and fireballs are allways good too, bair is long enough too

mario has some weird shield pressure stuff with jabs and grabs and the like - how do you DEAL with shield pressure though?
fulljump to nair mostly, and if a falco likes to do shield pressure, he'll do a mistake eventually then you have an opening (IF NOT!!!!!) then just roll away easy from there on, fulljump to nair or dair is good if he tries to attack you there, mostly they jump right in the dair, AFTER THE DAIR YOU DO THE UAIR and combo his ***

how do you tend to recover against good players
with mindgames
do fireballs after doublejumps, tornado at the beginning allways, and cape to double jump uair is good too

should i throw a fireball at every concievable opportunity because i love fireballs
yeah you should

what is the coolest thing you can do out of thunders? (i always want to do fair -> fair thunders fair -> fair tech chase fsmash for a kill - sounds tiiiiight but overall just silly hahahahaha)
lol

yup... and overall just ask eggz xD jk jk... um... ask DJ Nintendo :D! jk jk... um...
combos are very important
not just the uair uair uair shffld blind stuff, also bair to grab to upthrow upsmash chaingrab and fsmash

oh and do dsmash alot too, its a good and fast attack... lol

 

[Eggz]

fair on CC opponents is ****. they just sit there in complete standing hitstun.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

hey gimpyfish cool to see you're picking up mario i thought i'd give you some advice for your mario just so you know fair to fair to fair to fair to fair to fair (spike) combo is pretty good you should try to do that against some players some time

EDIT:

this is gimpyfish - thanks for the tip man i'll have to use that one! =)

 

[Ndot]

yay the great gimpyfish is back. Gimpy for prez!

 

[Super Mari0]

fair on CC opponents is ****. they just sit there in complete standing hitstun.

oh right ill have to use that too :D
thx for the advice

 

[iMichael]

fair on CC opponents is ****. they just sit there in complete standing hitstun.

oh right ill have to use that too :D
thx for the advice

lol I gotta use that too

 

[Dogysamich]

Take *****s to the fair.

F.air -> F.air -> F.air -> F.air -> F.air -> F.air -> F.air -> F.air -> F.air. Dont try to finish it, just keep fairing. When they get out, THEN you finish. >.>

 

[Super Mari0]

Take *****s to the fair.

F.air -> F.air -> F.air -> F.air -> F.air -> F.air -> F.air -> F.air -> F.air. Dont try to finish it, just keep fairing. When they get out, THEN you finish. >.>

cool^^ ill definitely keep that in mind when i try it for fun
im not sure if i stop when they get out... maybe i do instinctively... w/e id rather just combo differently, many tell me its useless

 

[Gimpyfish62]

Take *****s to the fair.

F.air -> F.air -> F.air -> F.air -> F.air -> F.air -> F.air -> F.air -> F.air. Dont try to finish it, just keep fairing. When they get out, THEN you finish. >.>

so it seems you've already seen my mario

lol

 

[Gu3r0]

talk to eggz XD

 

[Help!]

Whhhat you serious about Fair on CC opponents? God **** it... Now i know what to do vs samus players...

 

[Gimpyfish62]

how did people not think to try the only somewhat "strong" move that mario has with range in front of him against a cc lol

 

[RestInPeace]

Gimpy is too good.

 

[iMichael]

how did people not think to try the only somewhat "strong" move that mario has with range in front of him against a cc lol

lol yeah I feel f****in ******** now...good stuff Gimpy.

 

[MaritLage227]

I don't main this plumber, but when I play him, my tactics are usually to cape often. It is probably one of the best ways to recover. if you can wall jump after up-b, it helps to do so on FD, then cape towards stage, then another up-B. wavedash often. Also, using down-b in midair is pointless, because it doesn't help, (except for mindgames).