Starcraft Discussion

[Alphicans]

I'll take 130 points if that's what you're asking =D.

 

[Kennahh]

Sure, whatever that means :D
-_-Kenny is my name on thar
LOL at the ****.

 

[Cynan Machae]

Lol I just saw the edit on the OP :D

And on the subject of mechanics vs strategy, yea it's pretty true that better mechanics > better strategy. Maybe not if it's not, but if the gap grows, yea. A few people I play again definitely have mcuh better strategy than I do, but I know I can beat them just by making sure I got into late game and get the macro war started.

Anyway since today I'm done with a lot of RL stuff and will probably be playing some icc here and there. Mogwai you said somewhere that you had improved quite in the last few months, so I'm definitely interested in play you again I must have played you like 4 months ago

 

[Mogwai]

Lol I just saw the edit on the OP :D

And on the subject of mechanics vs strategy, yea it's pretty true that better mechanics > better strategy. Maybe not if it's not, but if the gap grows, yea. A few people I play again definitely have mcuh better strategy than I do, but I know I can beat them just by making sure I got into late game and get the macro war started.

Anyway since today I'm done with a lot of RL stuff and will probably be playing some icc here and there. Mogwai you said somewhere that you had improved quite in the last few months, so I'm definitely interested in play you again I must have played you like 4 months ago

yea, sure. I'm actually knocking off a bunch of rust from not playing much over the last month, but my ZvZ and ZvT are looking like they're back in shape. I keep ****ing up and letting myself get scouted in ZvP though, I need to work at that matchup to get it back where it was a month ago.

 

[Kennahh]

Still looking for games on iCCup, free points or whatever.

 

[Alphicans]

Kenny you're going to have to find someone to help you learn or SC, or be prepared to read a lot, because I really think you're going to have a hard time winning matches :\.

 

[pockyD]

want to abuse?

 

[Mogwai]

I'm about to hop on ICCup, msg Mogwai if anyone wants to play.

 

[Kennahh]

Kenny you're going to have to find someone to help you learn or SC, or be prepared to read a lot, because I really think you're going to have a hard time winning matches :\.

At the moment I don't really expect to win, I'm prepared to lose, but every game makes me better with my build orders, and it's good to know what to expect when I become competitive. I've been practicing with computers when I can't find human opponents, and of course there are some things that I don't understand, but I think it isn't a terrible idea to know what to expect when I become competitive.

 

[Mogwai]

yo, I was in the middle of a game, if you wanna play now, just hop back on

 

[Alphicans]

Mogwai what rank are you? I'll play you in like 10-15 minutes if you'd like.

 

[Mogwai]

right now, I'd say I'm a high D, I used to be a D+ but as I'm playing now I realize that I lost a lot of my mechanics so yea, I'd be useless vs. you right now, but I'll still play.

specifically my early-mid game vs. Mech and toss are unbearably sloppy and make me want to hang myself whenever I play them.

 

[Alphicans]

Ok well I am on. Add me as npnl.Alphicans

 

[SloT]

I haven't played starcraft in such a long time.... But my Internet may finally allow me to, so im going to re install it.

 

[Alphicans]

Plank I noticed you bashing some brawl in the genesis thread, and saying how it's an inferior game due to how you can have another genesis the next day and would get a different result every time. I wanted to say something then, but I was way too hyped over armada and didn't wanna cause spam in the thread, so instead I'll spam here and get infracted for it. The argument was weak. It's like saying SC is inferior to melee because Jaedong just lost to effort, so that must mean the game cannot establish who is the best all the time right? I mean it was just so ridiculous when you said that. Don't get me wrong I agree melee has a more in depth game, but melee is not anymore competitive worthy than brawl, and with the reason you gave you made yourself look really dumb. Sorry dude :\.

 

[unknownPresence]

wow ive been gone for a while, but since when do we debate brawl and melee in this thread? as far as my thoughts both are competitive and DIFFERENT games.
anyway has anyone heard about the tournament with all the old school players? i think its an invitational consisting of players like boxer, nal ra, ilovoov, yellow, and other back to the pros.

 

[SloT]

Well, they do have something like that with WCG... lots of classic players.... i know what your talking about though, and they have one.. forget what its called though

EDIT: w00ts!! post #1337 !!

 

[Winston]

Plank I noticed you bashing some brawl in the genesis thread, and saying how it's an inferior game due to how you can have another genesis the next day and would get a different result every time. I wanted to say something then, but I was way too hyped over armada and didn't wanna cause spam in the thread, so instead I'll spam here and get infracted for it. The argument was weak. It's like saying SC is inferior to melee because Jaedong just lost to effort, so that must mean the game cannot establish who is the best all the time right? I mean it was just so ridiculous when you said that. Don't get me wrong I agree melee has a more in depth game, but melee is not anymore competitive worthy than brawl, and with the reason you gave you made yourself look really dumb. Sorry dude :\.

I'm not saying plank's argument is correct, but you should recognize that Starcraft inherently has more variance than Smash.

 

[AltF4]

Wow, I just watched a bunch of matches from Flash and Berserker, and Terran just looks so unstoppable in the late game. They both just turtle so well and then move out with an unstoppable force.

Especially against Zerg. Science vessels destroy all of the defilers and there's not much to counter the push. After a certain threshhold, lings die before they ever reach the enemies, ultras get destroyed by tanks (and irradiate), and mutas are of course hopeless against irradiate.

I'm not sure what can be done. Except not let the Terran get to that point in the late game.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I still think Terrans, Koreans, and Korean Terrans are broken.

 

[Alphicans]

Especially against zerg? Wtf... Dark swarm is the most powerful spell against terran. Terran is not greater than zerg late game trust me on this. Tanks are way too immobile to use at that point, and ultras will rip marines to shreds if you don't micro near perfectly. Terran does have a lot going for them, and I suppose if they are played perfectly they are the best race by far, but the other two races have a lot of little tricks up their sleeves to make perfect play virtually impossible for terran.

 

[pockyD]

science vessels are too good!

 

[Alphicans]

Yeah but it takes time for a defiler to die. In that time it can get off a dark swarm.

 

[unknownPresence]

if u were to pay each race perfectly, then terran has the advantage?
thats debatable dont u think alpha?

 

[Alphicans]

No because marines are the most efficient unit in the game, and with perfect micro they're > than anything in the game.

 

[pockyD]

with perfect control, m&m is near unstoppable

 

[Winston]

No because marines are the most efficient unit in the game, and with perfect micro they're > than anything in the game.

I'd like you to explain what kind of micro would allow mass m&m to beat mass siege tanks...

anyway, terrans don't have perfect control and right now pro zerg hive play has the advantage vs pro sk terran.

Also, AltF4, you have it completely backwards. Terran is the one who has to secure an advantage in the midgame, where the m&m&tank&vessel can beat lurker/ling/muta. Hive tech in the hands of the top tier zvters is a death sentence for terrans, even Flash.

He did run over July a few days ago, but July played unbelievably poorly after securing an advantage early on.

As far as PvT goes, Protoss can often beat lategame terrans on large maps by losing battles but winning the war. Clutch stasis/storms also can wreck the 3/3 maxed armies that terran spends all game buildling. You can watch the recent Leta vs Movie as an example.

Terran is definitely not imbalanced >.> Each race has really strong abusable features that other races like to complain about.

 

[AltF4]

No, I'm not calling Terran imbalanced. I have full faith in the balance of Starcraft, lol. I had just gotten done watching July's complete meltdown against Berserker, and couldn't really pinpoint what he did wrong. Maybe it was just the map, I dunno. It had a lot of tight squeezes that made it had to surround the terran. Every battle was funneled through an opening.

 

[pockyD]

I'd like you to explain what kind of micro would allow mass m&m to beat mass siege tanks...

OPTICAL FLARE obviously

also, tanks are terran as well

 

[rhan]

Does anyone have a "unit counter" list for TvP and TvZ? I looked on TeamLiquid but I couldn't find anything. Either I'm looking in the wrong spots or I'm blind. If there is one help a Starcraft noob out!

 

[pockyD]

such a thing has not been relevant since 1999

 

[rhan]

There goes my noob post of the day. Heh... I wish I would have gotten into Starcraft sooner... I started earlier this year...

I'll be asking many questions by the way so people are are experienced in the game please bare with me... Thanks.

 

[Alphicans]

Just watch replays of pros and you'll get the unit mixture down eventually.

Basically TvP is mostly tanks/vults and a few gols mixed in there with science vessles with emp late game.
TvZ is pretty varied now. Certain maps call for gols/tanks while others call for marines/medics + tanks (optional, but recommended for a beginner).
TvT is tanks, gols, and lots of dropships, and on some maps tanks/mass vults.

Also theoretically MnM can slow down a tank push for a long *** time, and dropships filled with rines and medics are a lot stronger when dropped, and will beat mech units coming out of the ships. But this is really hard because it's so easy to let the tanks run you over.

 

[Winston]

No, I'm not calling Terran imbalanced. I have full faith in the balance of Starcraft, lol. I had just gotten done watching July's complete meltdown against Berserker, and couldn't really pinpoint what he did wrong. Maybe it was just the map, I dunno. It had a lot of tight squeezes that made it had to surround the terran. Every battle was funneled through an opening.

When did July and Iris play? was this recent?

Also, July's ZvT has been weak for quite some time now. I think if you watch games like Flash vs Effort on heartbreak or Jaedong vs Flash on Rush Hour 3 you'll appreciate the superiority of Zerg lategame.

@ pocky
yeah I know tanks are terran >< I was responding to Alphican's claim

@ Alphican
I can imagine mass m&m& dropships winning vs tank/goliath, I guess. But like you said, the bio player would be hard pressed to stay alive until then.

 

[AltF4]

When did July and Iris play? was this recent?

Also, July's ZvT has been weak for quite some time now. I think if you watch games like Flash vs Effort on heartbreak or Jaedong vs Flash on Rush Hour 3 you'll appreciate the superiority of Zerg lategame.

Oh, no. I'm sorry. The two games I watched were July vs Flash, and Berserker vs Tempest.

 

[aeghrur]

I must say, as of now, the heritage league is very entertaining. More so than Pro-league or the SLs. =/
It makes me want to really get into starcraft... if I had a use-able mouse.

 

[unknownPresence]

marines with perfect micro are the best unit? my *** they are, mutas with perfect micro would destroy m&m. you might say irridate, but with perfect micro the muta(s) will be easily isolated, and as far as self irridate, thats where plague comes in.

.....

PPPPPPPLLLLLLLLLLLLAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGUUUUUUUUUUEEEEEEEEEE!!!

 

[pockyD]

nah mutas are terrible in theorycraft

 

[unknownPresence]

lol care to explain?

 

[pockyD]

modern mutalisk usage is based entirely around their mobility, their ability to hit and run and pick on unprepared spots/unit clusters

...which don't exist when the players have perfect control

they take up 2 supply and are rather expensive resource-wise as well