Alphicans
Smash Hero
Thank-you for that pockyD. I was just about to say that.
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Starcraft Discussion
- Thread starter SloT
- Start date
unknownPresence
Smash Ace
dmn ur right.
i still feel the statement that marines are the best unit if microd perfectly is too strong a statement.
i still feel the statement that marines are the best unit if microd perfectly is too strong a statement.
Alphicans
Smash Hero
Well I mean what beats marines? Lurkers, storm, reavers basically. All of these units rely on the fact that your units will be clumped together when you attack so they do maximum damage. Add in perfect micro and your spreads will be perfect.
Actually I think gaurdians might be able to kill marines really easily even with perfect micro. But then again will zerg even have the chance to get that far? rofl theorycraft is dumb.
Actually I think gaurdians might be able to kill marines really easily even with perfect micro. But then again will zerg even have the chance to get that far? rofl theorycraft is dumb.
yea, theorycraft is ********.
Toss: Reavers, Psi Storm
Zerg: Lurkers, Dark Swarm, Ultraling
Terran: Tanks, Vultuers
will all realistically **** Marines, despite Marines' theoretical efficiency.
Toss: Reavers, Psi Storm
Zerg: Lurkers, Dark Swarm, Ultraling
Terran: Tanks, Vultuers
will all realistically **** Marines, despite Marines' theoretical efficiency.
unknownPresence
Smash Ace
lol, read all that to find out theorycraft is dumb XD
i havent seen too many games with guards now that u bring that unit up. im actually curious to c one
i havent seen too many games with guards now that u bring that unit up. im actually curious to c one
there are a few semi-recent games out there where Zergs do 2 hatch Muta -> 3 hatch Guardians vs. terrans, but they're sorta few and far between these days. It's just really scary trying to do that transition since you pretty much have to skip over lurkers to have enough gas and a good timing push just rolls you over.
unknownPresence
Smash Ace
good analysis btw mogwai, and ill c if i can find any. im curious to c that kind of a match
Okay guys, I've been playing a while now. I main Zerg, and I play almost every night with some asian friends.
The problem I have , is starting. Against noob terran, I just 4pool, make them lift off, and then hydra their bases soon after. But I can't do that against good terran because of Barracks Rush. I've read up on some good starts, but they never seem to work. Any good Zerg starts, guys?
The problem I have , is starting. Against noob terran, I just 4pool, make them lift off, and then hydra their bases soon after. But I can't do that against good terran because of Barracks Rush. I've read up on some good starts, but they never seem to work. Any good Zerg starts, guys?
D
Deleted member
Guest
4 or 5 pool with constant zerglings is really a risky build order since many people nowadays are good at blocking it if they scout it and if you do it to your friends a lot they will expect it and go barracks first with a bunker ready or almost done by the thing your lings get in their base. You also don't really get better.
5 pool with drones after initial 6 zerglings could be a lot better since if you mess them up enough you can transition into some lair tech and beat them even if you don't take them out with super early lings (but mess them up a lot)
but to get better overall I feel that you need to do actual builds not meant to own your opponent right away but builds that take you into the mid or late game.
There are plenty of variants of 9 pool / 12 hatch
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Zerg_Strategy
you also have a lower chance of getting punched in the face by not 4 pooling
Alphicans
Smash Hero
Victawr I really suggest you come up with new stuff because believe me that will work less than 20% of the time vs alright players. SCVS plus like 2 rines will **** 6 lings fast. Not to mention the risk of getting scouted before your lings make it there (bunkers build REALLY fast).
scvs + ramp + 1 rine + 1 barracks building rines >>>> infinity billion zerglings
pockyD
Smash Legend
not with perfect control
with perfect control, you might need 3 rines 
Winston
Smash Master
The most common start against Terran and Protoss is building drones until 9 supply, then an overlord, then drones until 12 supply, then a Hatchery at your first expansion, then a spawning pool. If you think they'll Barracks rush you, build a Pool on 9 supply instead, then a Hatchery at your expansion as soon as possible.
The two most important things to understand about the game when you're just starting competitive sc is
1). Build as many workers as you can. For Terran and Protoss it means you constantly build workers, and for Zerg it means you build workers when you aren't forced to make units.
2). Try to spend all your resources. Any excess resources that you have are units that you could be building and could be using to fight. If you can't spend your income fast enough, this means you need more production buildings.
Once you get these concepts, you can check out builds/strategies on Liquipedia: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Main_Page
and watch progamer videos if you're interested.
www.youtube.com/nevake
www.youtube.com/cholerasc <- with English Commentary
The two most important things to understand about the game when you're just starting competitive sc is
1). Build as many workers as you can. For Terran and Protoss it means you constantly build workers, and for Zerg it means you build workers when you aren't forced to make units.
2). Try to spend all your resources. Any excess resources that you have are units that you could be building and could be using to fight. If you can't spend your income fast enough, this means you need more production buildings.
Once you get these concepts, you can check out builds/strategies on Liquipedia: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Main_Page
and watch progamer videos if you're interested.
www.youtube.com/nevake
www.youtube.com/cholerasc <- with English Commentary
12 hatch hasn't been standard vs. toss for ages now. Overpool speed is the standard even at the D level (drones until 9, overlord, spawning pool @ 200 mins, gas @ 50 mins, drones until 10 supply, 3 drones on gas when it finishes, pull drones off gas starting @ 88 gas (so that you have 104 when you're done pulling them), 6 lings and ling speed when pool finishes, 2nd hatch at natural when you can).
D
Deleted member
Guest
I also recommend watching starcraft matches in the gom.tv tournaments. I personally feel that Tasteless and SDM are the most trustworthy commentators to listen to.
They also don't sound ******** as **** speaking in 50 times volume when something "crazy" happens.
They also don't sound ******** as **** speaking in 50 times volume when something "crazy" happens.
Alphicans
Smash Hero
A really good thing against either race is to pretend like you're doing a standard 3 hatch, but then just get like 30 speed lings and just surprise your opponent. This has happened to me twice and it is REALLY hard to handle. I just barely won.
unknownPresence
Smash Ace
heh, u can always try something even harder to pull of than a 4 pool. i once zerg proxied and blocked him in, and with a number of lings a was lucky to win.
Winston
Smash Master
I know that, but for a new player who is just looking for a single starting build, 12 hatch is better overall considering both matchups than 9/overpool.
I guess if you want to talk about all three matchups then 9/overpool is the way to go.
and oh yeah I forgot about gom. Gom is probably the best place for english commentaries for new players.
eh, I agree, but barely. overpool is fine vs. T with how common mech is these days and 12 hatch is basically impossible vs. P on 2 player maps vs. even mediocre Probe harass and will frequently be stifled on most 3/4 player maps as well. If I had to start every game against every race 2 minutes into the game with the same opening, it'd be overpool gas.
I disagree.
It's so much more fun listening to the screaming and yelling because you get hyped, lol.
For knowledge's sake, it's better to just read TL threads and stuff. =/
to be honest, Tasteless/SDMs commentary leaves a lot to desire and they frequently misperceive the game state. It's good at first to just sorta learn generic terminology and overbearing concepts of the game, but once you start playing and learning the flow of the game, you start learning that they're not very good analytical commentators (i.e. the baby vs. Modesty games), frequently seem horribly out of touch with the pro scene (not knowing it was Luxury and not Yarnc), and don't seem on top of new build order trends (wtf @ not even talking about how Leta was bringing 2 port wraith back in proleague when Baby went 2 port wraith in that same game and talking about how brilliant he was for it).
Alphicans
Smash Hero
Really? I haven't experienced better commentary than SDM/Tasteless. I wouldn't say they lack knowledge of the game at all. Tastless always brings good insight into what each player will end up doing, and things like not knowing a tag change isn't very important anyways. SDM, being the person he is, would have to know a lot about the game, and he always brings his coaching experience into the matches, saying what the players should do in dire situations, and for the most part he is right. Also what is this about no screaming and no hype? Tasteless is always bringing the hype to a match even if there isn't any to be made. Plus the pandabear guy trend is just so good, along with tasteless's insight into starcraft unit's lives.
pockyD
Smash Legend
tasteless/sdm commentary is amazing
Wes, I think getting good at Starcraft has ruined Tasteless and SDM for you. Was it worth it?
Alphicans
Smash Hero
For me, getting good at SC has helped me appreciate their commentary even more. I can't see how it could detract from the experience.
There isn't better English commentary, but that's not really saying much as all other English speaking commentary is amateur and they (Tasteless and SDM) are the only pros.
Tasteless is pretty good about BOs and why they're being used, but his knowledge about the pro-scene is pretty lacking compared to your casual pro scene follower on Teamliquid.
Not knowing Luxury/Practice's tag for the entire first game, when it was immediately after he won the MSL, was painful for me to listen to knowing that he gets paid to do what he does.
Talking about EffOrt like he's some random Chobo vs. Jaedong when EffOrt was on the most ungodly tear of any progamer made me cringe. If any zerg on the planet was going to beat Jaedong in a BoX, it was going to be EffOrt.
I mean, it's mostly just that he gets paid to do this that pisses me off when he makes stupid mistakes like that. Be professional and just like, look up the thread on TL right before the game so that you have an idea of who the players are and how they're doing.
I dunno, he's pretty good sometimes, but other times just seems wildly off base with what he's saying. I don't have any glaring examples, but recently I've been noticing him saying stuff that just makes me o_O.
Also, sweet merciful Jesus, when he's the only one talking (I think it was Flash vs. July when Tasteless was out...) it's unbearable
.Compared to the MBC and OGN guys, there's not as much hype. This was just a comparative point for me. It's not that Tasteless doesn't bring hype it's just that I only really want hype, since I feel like I understand what's going on by myself now and I find the Koreans bring moar hype than Tasteless.
eh, sometimes it's too corny. But I'll agree that they can get good running gags going on.
The big picture for me is just that I expect more from them because they are pros who get paid to do what they do. They aren't bad all the time, but sometimes they are and it just gets to me.
Yea, even though D+ isn't really good... It's still just made the game that much more fascinating and awesome to me.
TurtleFreak
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2009
- Messages
- 75
I like both SDM and Tasteless, but they do get old after a while, especially Tasteless's sense of humor. It would be nice if Gom had one or two other good casters they could mix things up with. Tasteless has a bad habit of interrupting SDM, and SDM has a tendency to (1) state the obvious and (2) lose track of what's going on. They're pretty good overall, though. One of the most important things is that they have a bit of vigor and personality when they cast. I tried watching the Warcraft 3 casts, and they're horrible by comparison. It's like listening to Ben Stein commentate.
pockyD
Smash Legend
i bet wes hates john madden too
you ol grumpus
you ol grumpus
Perfect Hero
Smash Apprentice
What are yall Iccup Handles?
I just got back into the game a few days ago, was C- high the last time I played.
I'm Orange on Iccup, looking to level up. :o
Catch me on Aim. Kula Lite
I just got back into the game a few days ago, was C- high the last time I played.
I'm Orange on Iccup, looking to level up. :o
Catch me on Aim. Kula Lite
ismokeherbz
Smash Journeyman
so who plays on hamachi?
Perfect Hero
Smash Apprentice
@herbz no need to play on hamachi, just get ICCUP'S starcraft file on their site, 100 mb i think.. and you can play on their gateway/server
Download their launcher and you pretty much have lan latency on a server where you can play multiple people.
@plairnkk
Mech has gotten some usage since Flash displayed it and Fantasy's genius valkyrie build, but I wouldn't say its common, more like not suprising to see anymore
Download their launcher and you pretty much have lan latency on a server where you can play multiple people.
@plairnkk
Mech has gotten some usage since Flash displayed it and Fantasy's genius valkyrie build, but I wouldn't say its common, more like not suprising to see anymore
Alphicans
Smash Hero
flash does this sick build where he does basic mech FE, but then it turns into MnM. So he pushes out with like 2 groups of rines 1 group of gols and some tanks... It's really powerful for an initial push, and then the game evolves into a standard tvz.
the recent mech revolution is mostly upMagic and Fantasy's doing to my knowledge. up was the first person I saw using it in proleague and Fantasy put it in the limelight in that series vs. JD last OSL, showing off what you're talking about Flash doing (mech FE -> 4 rax MnM).
unknownPresence
Smash Ace
quick question, is the midas build standard now for terrans, bc i played on iccup a lil while ago, and every terran i played as with zerg did the midas build
Midas build = what exactly?
Perfect Hero
Smash Apprentice
Well Flash did the full FE mech build against Jaedong last year iirc. He went from begining to end with mech, but yeah I agree Fantasy had a big part in changing the metagame.
Midas' build is the fd rush. fd = fake double
It is primarily a tvp build where he fakes a 2 fac and expands safely with mines.
the terran build for zerg i see these days is usually the 1rax cc, in which the make 1 barracks and then make a command center, not sure if Midas originated that build though.
Anyways, played with one of you smashers today, gg's.
We need more smashers on ICcup to get 2v2s or something. =O
Midas' build is the fd rush. fd = fake double
It is primarily a tvp build where he fakes a 2 fac and expands safely with mines.
the terran build for zerg i see these days is usually the 1rax cc, in which the make 1 barracks and then make a command center, not sure if Midas originated that build though.
Anyways, played with one of you smashers today, gg's.
We need more smashers on ICcup to get 2v2s or something. =O
ok, didn't know FD was the Midas Build. That's not really the standard for TvZ these days, but it's kinda hard to pinpoint a standard. TvZ has gotten pretty diverse about how you can choose to play it effectively, so I always try to scout whether my opponent is doing a 1 rax FE, 2 rax, 1 fact FE, 2 fact, or 2 port, as they're all common enough to keep me guessing if I don't scout.
I typically open overpool speed vs. Terrans these days as it generically ***** bad defense from Terrans and also is very effective at delaying 1 rax/fact FEs and it transitions smoothly into 2 hatch play which fits my aggressive style well. It's probably a bad idea once you get out of the dregs of the D/D+ ranks, but at least at my level I like to keep myself on the offensive.
I typically open overpool speed vs. Terrans these days as it generically ***** bad defense from Terrans and also is very effective at delaying 1 rax/fact FEs and it transitions smoothly into 2 hatch play which fits my aggressive style well. It's probably a bad idea once you get out of the dregs of the D/D+ ranks, but at least at my level I like to keep myself on the offensive.
ismokeherbz
Smash Journeyman
who wants to play me and maybe train me? i wanna get better :>