Starcraft Discussion

[gangstajuice656]

this game is the worst SSBB is better in so many ways!!

 

[gangstajuice656]

sorry for posting more than 1 time!! (Sorry for posting 2 times!!) actually 3...

 

[Alphicans]

Gangstajuice... I am an avid smash player, but the skill level between these two genres and games is 2 much. You can't compare smash to starcraft at least when comparing skill requirements. Starcraft is a way harder game plain and simple, and whether you like SSBB more then SC, thats fine, but show some respect for the skill that us SC players have. Plz and TY.

 

[Andromeda]

I don't really know why, but for some reason I don't really like this game. I love RTS-games in general, but this one isn't my taste at all. I guess I could learn to like it though, as I likely don't hate strategygames.

 

[TheFifthMan]

Does anyone know of a way for me to run the current version of Starcraft off a flash drive? My laptop's dead, and I really, really want to start playing again.

 

[Jazriel]

Hey guys, I've been playing a bit of SC, and by luck one of the guys at my local smashfest is getting into SC.

Right now I beat him (I'm Zerg and he's Terran) rather soundly with lurkers. Do you have any advice for what T should do against lurkers? And what should Z do do counter-act that?

And what's a good build for a guardian strat? I like 'em and wanna use 'em more, but I don't know how to work towards them/mix them in. And are Queens ever used? I've been thinking that ensnare would be good vs M&M's, but I don't know enough.

 

[Alphicans]

OK! Jazriel do you like always go lurkers? If so just tell him this.

First he will know the build orders, which i believe i posted awhile back in this thread so just look for it. Ok now just use that simple tvz build order, but instead get 2 factories, with chine shops. Dbl facotry owns the living $hit out of lurkers, but is vulnerable 2 ultras, so i advise you take out as many expos as you can then switch to less production of tanks and mass them sci vessels and marines and medics. Also fully upgdrade ur infantry, so you don't end up only doing 1 dmg to ultras.


Queens are used, but very rarely. Like it's a good idea, but for some reason i never see it.

 

[Wenbobular]

From what I've seen at pro levels, Lurkers get ***** by Terran micro
Then again...I guess you guys are Korean
...Only joking.

 

[Jazriel]

OK! Jazriel do you like always go lurkers? If so just tell him this.

First he will know the build orders, which i believe i posted awhile back in this thread so just look for it. Ok now just use that simple tvz build order, but instead get 2 factories, with chine shops. Dbl facotry owns the living $hit out of lurkers, but is vulnerable 2 ultras, so i advise you take out as many expos as you can then switch to less production of tanks and mass them sci vessels and marines and medics. Also fully upgdrade ur infantry, so you don't end up only doing 1 dmg to ultras.


Queens are used, but very rarely. Like it's a good idea, but for some reason i never see it.

Well, I don't really know what to do with Zerg. I keep on hearing about this "default" build order, which is 3 hatch. But I think that's crazy. I guess I like fast lurkers or fast muta, where I go 9 extractor, 9 pool, 12 lair, 14 spire/den.

But would you say in general, if he scouts and sees me going for a tech build, he should scrap triple raxs and go for facs?


What's happened so far is that I run in with 3 lurkers, and he has no towers and his scan is at like 40 energy, and I kill all of his clustered 'rines instantly and then run my lurkers into his mineral line. He says GG and after says "Lurkers are OP" lol

 

[KevinM]

Or like your friend could just save his scan like you're supposed too, and use SKterran build order.

To beat lurkers with MnM you just send a marine out to splash the original hits and then Stim and go.

Lurkers are terrible eventually against T

Muta Micro is essential and eventually good plagues

Mid game is ruled by terran, Late game evens out and might even tilt towards zerg with the plague

 

[Alphicans]

rofl skterran build by a noob? Kevin you sound like you know the game, but do u realize the micro involved in skterran? Seriously thats a korean only strat, any euroterran or nothamerican terran goes for the tech factory into sci vess. Muta micro is not essential, especially when the strat is not a muta one -___-. Lurkers are never ****ty against terran, just they get harder so most zergs just get ultras cause they have the money. It's not about plague it's about the swarm, (although plague can be very effective), and if you see a fast tech zerg, just fast expo i swear and bunker up, cause the most zerg is gonna have is 3 lurkers and you will have 1 bunker, and about 5 rines with a turret up and ready to ****.

 

[KevinM]

Alphican, i play regularly with people who can pull of SKterran, and after being ***** a lot I figured it was the best advice to give.

SKTerran may not be the right thing to give to a noob though you're right :D hah

Unmicroed Lurkers which is the stage he sounds like he's at ARE terrible against T because you don't micro them well enough.

And honestly i meant swarm when i said plague..

Only use plague to get vessels, Swarm is more essential.

Tired Johns

Alphi are you on east or west so we can play?

Or just download Hamichi (spelling?)

 

[Jazriel]

Thanks for the advice guys. It helps.

Any advice for a guardian oriented build? I like 'em and I wanna use 'em more. Does such a thing exist? I was thinking I could just turtle and fast hive then run around with guardians and win. The odd muta + devourer combo for if he's smart enough to get air-to-air units.


And what's SKTerran? Like 10 rax's and some sci vessels?

 

[KevinM]

Go to youtube, search for Combat's FPVODs and i believe its Game Six he does a SKTerran build.

But basically its very macro/micro heavy and an aggressive counter to zerg.

 

[Alphicans]

Thanks for the advice guys. It helps.

Any advice for a guardian oriented build? I like 'em and I wanna use 'em more. Does such a thing exist? I was thinking I could just turtle and fast hive then run around with guardians and win. The odd muta + devourer combo for if he's smart enough to get air-to-air units.


And what's SKTerran? Like 10 rax's and some sci vessels?

Guardains are not used as a battlefied force, but to surprise terrans expos with attacks. So they are just harassers, cause sci vessels just **** them like there is no tommorow.

And SKterran is just fancy for saying mass macro with no tanks. It involves at least a 200 apm, and constant pressure. This strat is not for the faint of heart, it's more than 10 rax, it's like 1 billion lol.

 

[Nuada]

Guardains are not used as a battlefied force, but to surprise terrans expos with attacks. So they are just harassers, cause sci vessels just **** them like there is no tommorow.

And SKterran is just fancy for saying mass macro with no tanks. It involves at least a 200 apm, and constant pressure. This strat is not for the faint of heart, it's more than 10 rax, it's like 1 billion lol.

apm doesn't matter when doing skterran, as it doesn't matter when doing anything, you just have to be able to multitask and micro your mnm well. You can do it with 150 apm or 300 apm.

The big points of the style are that there are no tanks, it's pure mnm, meaning you need really good micro to do with lukers. Generally an extra starport is added and the gas that would have gone to tanks, goes to more sci vessels, this way you get more irradiates to use on lurkers while your mnm **** everything else.

 

[Alphicans]

when i say you "need" 200 apm, I mean that you will have a 200 apm. When i talk apm i never talk spam, so the way i talk about it is directly related to dexterity, which is highly linked to skill. So if you only have 150 apm, you can do it hypothetically but not very well at all, infact you will fail really hard like me :D.

 

[Nuada]

Eh, I disagree. A player on my team used to take down A- level players with <140 average apm. As random, so it wasn't just protoss

 

[Gosu_Engineer]

oh nice...speaking of zerg units they released the reveal vid for zerg on starcraft II. Hydras are eeriely quiet...

 

[KevinM]

Eh, I disagree. A player on my team used to take down A- level players with <140 average apm. As random, so it wasn't just protoss

I have a feeling thats false info, not the APM thing, but an A- player won't lose to just a guy who knows basic BO's for each race and goes random.

 

[Alphicans]

Kevin, who said he only knows basic BO's? A guy with 140 apm can know all the bo's a gosu person knows, but possible can't use them as well. I believe it, but what I wanna know is if it was a bo3 or just 1 game. Because if it was just 1 game then it doesn't really count at all.

 

[purekorea]

Nuada's friend probably cheese rushed all the time xD

Joking aside if Savior can have 200-250 apm and be the best in the world for 2 years, apm is meaningless although Jaedong's apm is crazy 600+ at times in the middle of a game(not that spamming in the beginning) @.@

It's all about map knowledge anyways. I have about 100 apm and I do horrible on any map that isn't python cause I don't know them very well.

 

[Dante X]

I used to play this game all the time. I mostly played UMS maps though.

 

[purekorea]

UMS are fun someone should play impossible maps with me xD

 

[Cynan Machae]

APM isn't meaningless. APM just doesn't mean everything.

 

[KevinM]

Random fact for you guys to laugh at

Randomly halfway through some TvP on east, my APM peaked at like 716.

I think it was 14 minutes in.

Though average APM was just 196

 

[Jazriel]

Any of you guys watch the TeamLiquid Attack? That TvT... Lol.... Though the PvP on Peaks was good.

Anyways, I've been playing a bit more and I've gotten better (I hope). Stomping noobs is easy, but I have one question. How do I (Zerg) deal with a double gate rush?

 

[Alphicans]

Well i haven't played in like 2 months now, so I am getting a lil rusty, but sure I can give some advice.

I know how you feel, cause i like playing zvp as well and when that happens i am usually freaking out, but all you gotta do is make sure your first 2 lings live, and set up a sunken at ur expo. If your really bad at microing, and macro, and so on, the safe way to go is set up a third hatch asap and mass lings, in hope of a counter attack. So pretty much if you are fast expoing (which I hope you are doing) try and distract the first two zlots, with drones and lings, and set up a cpl of sunkens at ur expo, and you'll be fine.

 

[Jazriel]

I read today that 12 pool is a military build compared to 12 hatch which is more of an economy build. The "guide" said that 12 pool is helpful for defending against rushes, is this true? Or is the only option to FE and sunken?

 

[pyro363]

Most of that i do but i main the terran and i do play the game. Since it came out i had it and loved it. the best computer game out ever besides when starcraft2 comes out.

 

[Alphicans]

I read today that 12 pool is a military build compared to 12 hatch which is more of an economy build. The "guide" said that 12 pool is helpful for defending against rushes, is this true? Or is the only option to FE and sunken?

Jazriel, this is where you gotta gauge how your micro is. If you can't handle 2 zlots with like 4 lings and drones, then get the pool, but if your micro is up to snuff, then i strongly suggest you go for the FE, only because if you stop the rush, you're really far ahead, and can contain toss right away.

 

[Jazriel]

Well i haven't played in like 2 months now, so I am getting a lil rusty, but sure I can give some advice.

I know how you feel, cause i like playing zvp as well and when that happens i am usually freaking out, but all you gotta do is make sure your first 2 lings live, and set up a sunken at ur expo. If your really bad at microing, and macro, and so on, the safe way to go is set up a third hatch asap and mass lings, in hope of a counter attack. So pretty much if you are fast expoing (which I hope you are doing) try and distract the first two zlots, with drones and lings, and set up a cpl of sunkens at ur expo, and you'll be fine.

So ZvP usually means to FE? As in 12 hatch at nat -> 11 pool -> lings and maybe sunken based on what I've scouted? Also, what supply count is a good count to send a drone off to scout? I've been fiddling around with using my 9th drone against my friends, but they're really bad so I don't know what's a good timing.

 

[Jazriel]

Silly smashboards.

 

[KevinM]

So ZvP usually means to FE? As in 12 hatch at nat -> 11 pool -> lings and maybe sunken based on what I've scouted? Also, what supply count is a good count to send a drone off to scout? I've been fiddling around with using my 9th drone against my friends, but they're really bad so I don't know what's a good timing.

I can help here i'm a Z player :D

I send out a scout once the Ovie pops at 9 (or 10 if you gas trixied) and hopefully have scouted him by the time my 12 hatch FE goes up. You then capitalize on what you see and counter with lings or sunkens accordingly. Lings with Sunken back up vs Lots are no contest.

 

[SloT]

This is my opinion on the matter of "Standard Race matchup build orders" - There are none. i don't believe in standard builds. Starcraft is a game based off of smarts, thus you need to scout get information and build / strategize based on what your apponant is doing. in the beggining though, most common build orders go for 12 hatch 11 pool or 9 pool. Some more builds i've seen are if the P is going FE Forge - nex - then cannon, i go double hatch then pool. it depends on the map whether i double FE, and if i do, i usually 12 pool, 12 hatch, then get a 2nd expo. but still, my point remains valid - if you want to get good, you need experience and you need to know what counters what and base your strategy and builds upon that.

- And in regards to Scouting - if i dont find them with my OV and see what they are doing with that OV, then i send a drone to scout at the same time i send a drone to FE. if i 9 pool, send it on the drone that replaces the one that was used to create a pool. but that is just my opinion on the matter

 

[purekorea]

Just to let anyone know that is interested. The Korean Starcraft Proleague started this week =).
If you want to watch vods I suggest www.teamliquid.net or better yet http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/

The commentary is in Korean, sorry no way around that, but sometimes someone will make a english commentary namely Klazart but usually they're too busy.

 

[KevinM]

Between, Moletrap, Klazart, Diggity, and Jon I don't think i miss a match :D

 

[Alphicans]

ZERG!!! For every beginner there has to be a base upon which they can evolve into more sophisticated builds. A standard race build is more like a guideline that you follow exact, and then use differant variations pending on your scout, or if you feel like cheesing. Also I find if you are vs'ing someone for the first time, that you use the safest B/O possible so that you can guage an opponents micro and macro levels. Therefore a standard build can be very helpful in many aspects, not only being a safe way to play, but a base for new builds to come.

 

[KevinM]

12 Hatch with Zerg is my anti-drug

Speaking of Zerg

No savior or Jaedong in OSL

 

[purekorea]

The fan boy in me says Savior will come back...

At least Nada and GGPlay made it =)