Stale moves

[Z1GMA]

* Which moves do YOU save for the KO's?

* Which moves do YOU use the most, for damage racking?

* Which moves do YOU use the most, for refreshing Ganon's KO-moves?

* Do you find any of his attacks effective when they are decayed?

(It can really depend on which character you're facing; I know.)
But overall; how do you handle stale moves?

 

[stRIP]

* Which moves do YOU save for the KO's?
FSmash, FTilt, Bair, USmash,Dair,DASHATTACKZ0RS...UTILT=> WARLOCK PUNCH

* Which moves do YOU use the most, for damage racking?
SideB, Aerial SideB, DTilt, Jab, Dair, USmash,dsmash, Downb,Uair

* Which moves do YOU use the most, for refreshing Ganon's KO-moves?
UTilt!! DTilt, Jab, Uair, SideB

* Do you like any of his attacks better when they are decayed?

NO, pure destruction is awesome.

 

[@HomE]

Honestly, I when i play Ganon i dont worry about stale moves all that much, just because all his moves do so much **** knockback/dmg anyway I just dont think about it. But i do agree that saving a move to the kill can make a big difference, that first D-air is pretty brutal on lightweights...

But ill still answer the questions

* Which moves do YOU save for the KO's?
F-tilt, B-air, F-smash


* Which moves do YOU use the most, for damage racking?
D-air (it they are at 0% ALWAYS D-air for me) Side-B, U-air


* Which moves do YOU use the most, for refreshing Ganon's KO-moves?
Jab, N-air, D-tilt


* Do you like any of his attacks better when they are decayed?
No

 

[qerkdtx]

Agreeing with @home here, Ganons moves just do so much that stale moves don't concern me.

Moves saved for KO's:
FSmash, USmash, Fair, Bair, Ftilt, dash attack

Use for racking damage:
Dtilt,Uair, gerudo,dair, dsmash(sometimes),wizkick(sometimes),dash attack

Refreshers:
utilt, jab, wizkick, Nair

And None to the last one

 

[Z1GMA]

No one mentioned his DA? O_o
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
KO's: Fsmash, Ftilt, Fair, Bair. (DA: depends on opponent)

Damage: Jab, Dtilt, Gerudo+, Wizkick, Uair, Dair, Throws, DA.

Refreshers: Tipman, Pummeling, Gerudo+. (Not sure if Utilt is reliable, yet. I'm working on it).

Decayed moves: I like decayed Dair's, cause they really keep your opponent in "juggle reach", even at
middle/high %'s
Decayed Dair at low%'s is awesome when your opponents stands on a platform above you; so that they don't even bounce up. (making them stunned, sort of)
I also like decayed Jab -> Wizkick, at mid %'s

(I don't use Usmash as much as I probably should)

 

[qerkdtx]

wow Im an idoit
adding dash attack to killer and racking damage

 

[:034:]

* Which moves do YOU save for the KO's?

Dash Attack is the only one that is severly hurt by Stale moves.

* Which moves do YOU use the most, for damage racking?

Dair, dtilt, flame choke, uair.

* Which moves do YOU use the most, for refreshing Ganon's KO-moves?

Flame choke, pummel and jab.

* Do you like any of his attacks better when they are decayed?
EDIT: Do find any of his attacks effective when they are decayed?

There's no big difference in most moves, so take it for what you will. The only big one is Dash Attack.

(It can really depend on which character you're facing; I know.)
But overall; how do you play Ganon?

Casually get in range and dtilt to provoke the opponent rather than bait and punish. Then, punish the opponents by juggling them or dairing them into oblivion. At high percents, fthrow to tipman uairs or wizkick cancel is too good.

 

[Z1GMA]

There's no big difference in most moves, so take it for what you will. The only big one is Dash Attack.

I just edited my last post, with my thoughts of his decayed moves.

So I assume DA is the only move you care about saving, huh Dutchman?

 

[:034:]

I just edited my last post, with my thoughts of his decayed moves.

So I assume DA is the only move you care about saving, huh Dutchman?

Yeah, because the other moves either retain most of their killing power anyway (fsmash, ftilt) or are generally not used for an early kill (uair, dtilt, etc). I use dair for damage racking because... It does a lot of damage >_> (and leads into more than DA, at low percents that is).

 

[dlen06]

Honestly, I when i play Ganon i dont worry about stale moves all that much, just because all his moves do so much **** knockback/dmg anyway I just dont think about it. But i do agree that saving a move to the kill can make a big difference, that first D-air is pretty brutal on lightweights...

Agreed. I really don't save any moves for killing, because by the time i land a few on an opponent, he's at a high enough percent to kill him with something i haven't used yet.

 

[@HomE]

I can't believe i forgot about DA... like dutchman said, thats really the only move that i can think of that would be hurt severly if it was stale..(only really matters if your VSing lightweights)

I also forgot about the Wizkick, I use that move for everything, sometimes i even get a kill with a Down-B spike...god those are hawt

Now that i think about it, i pretty much use all of Ganons moves for everything... Excluding, N-air, D-smash, and Warlock punch

 

[Z1GMA]

I also forgot about the Wizkick, I use that move for everything, sometimes i even get a kill with a Down-B spike...god those are hawt

Dude.. I've noticed. Youre not considered one of the best spikers for nothin

Agreed. I really don't save any moves for killing, because by the time i land a few on an opponent, he's at a high enough percent to kill him with something i haven't used yet.

Exactly..

 

[qerkdtx]

I think he meant to said had though.

 

[TP]

Guys, we aren't using MK here. We don't have half our moveset for every situation. Most of the time, we only have one or two good options in a situation. That's how Ganon is. You don't get to think "I'll do this move now to refresh others" or "I'll save this one even though it would hit now." No. You use the one move that will work.

Except you should always save DA.

 

[Backerdem]

Guys, we aren't using MK here. We don't have half our moveset for every situation. Most of the time, we only have one or two good options in a situation. That's how Ganon is. You don't get to think "I'll do this move now to refresh others" or "I'll save this one even though it would hit now." No. You use the one move that will work.

Except you should always save DA.

I'm going to have to agree with you here. We have a select few moves that work in select situations. If you find yourself in a position to use any one of G's moves (that will hit), you use it. Right away. Pretty much all of G's attacks have such fierce knockback that it'l wreck em' at any degredation. It's not like if any of us have a chance to stomp we aren't going to take it.


That said, stomp is better degraded for added combo-ability, and Many a kill have I gotten after being killed and having the degradation reset on my dtilt. That thing is far more powerful than most people think, it's too bad we HAVE to use it as our champion poke move.

 

[@HomE]

Dude.. I've noticed. Youre not considered one of the best spikers for nothin

I knew there was a reason I liked you...nohomo

 

[A2ZOMG]

The problem I find with Ganondorf is that he's a character where saving moves isn't usually a viable option. You have to play patiently and wait for the KO to happen naturally. Another thing is that it doesn't matter what percent your opponent is at either if you know you can land a Smash on them, because if they are wide open, you want to get that extra 20some percent on them even if they aren't going to be KOed by that.

That being said, the one move I consciously save is B-throw. Not like I get grabs that often, but when I do, I have it as a last ditch effort to KO someone who is surviving obnoxiously long. I use Ganon's other throws and pummel as damage dealers of course. I sometimes save F-air for surprise KOs too.

When playing against lightweights, I usually save F-tilt and D-tilt for KOs from a Flame Choke. Flame Choke -> Jab is my main damage racker from there.

N-air, when applicable, I spam for dealing damage, or use it like U-air to edgeguard.

You might have heard me say it a million times, but I'm convinced that if Ganondorf had good grab range, he would be high tier. I mean, being allowed to consistently do damage with throws as opposed to would-be KO moves. That would seriously rock.

 

[Shadow Nataku]

* Which moves do YOU save for the KO's?
DA, FAir, Down B, FTilt, DTilt

* Which moves do YOU use the most, for damage racking?
UAir, DAir, BAir, Side B, NAir, FSmash, USmash, DTilt, DSmash (Yes I use it occasionally)

* Which moves do YOU use the most, for refreshing Ganon's KO-moves?
NAir, UTilt, DAir

* Do you find any of his attacks effective when they are decayed?
NAir

To be honest though I hit with whatever I can hit with and to save move power I just simply try mix up things all the time.

 

[Meian]

* Which moves do YOU save for the KO's?

* Which moves do YOU use the most, for damage racking?

* Which moves do YOU use the most, for refreshing Ganon's KO-moves?

* Do you find any of his attacks effective when they are decayed?

(It can really depend on which character you're facing; I know.)
But overall; how do you handle stale moves?

In order...

1) Ftilt I try to save for KOs since many characters can't return from being slid diagonally downwards. This is really useful when coming back from a stock too and the opponent is high %.

2) FThrow, UAir, DAir

3) Flame Choke, Jab and Same as 2) but I switch it up depending on the opponent

4) FTilt and Dash Attack tend to get hurt quite a bit. It makes me forget to use Dash Attack sometimes because of this...

 

[-Mars-]

I always keep my ftilt fresh because at around 100% it kills any character that doesn't have a Godly recovery.

Bair is interesting to me because when I first started playing Ganon I thought it was a really good move and then I found out how limited it actually was. It can hit taller characters out of a SH, so it can sometimes land you a KO instead of dair which is slower.

I'm surprised that you guys keep telling me to save my dash attack.......I find it as one of the few viable ways to punish characters OoS and from medium range. Gerudo is decent at doing that, but it's still pretty slow. I spam the hell out of dtilt and I use jab whenever I think it will connect.

Uair is obviously his best move that you can actually abuse in a safe manner against most characters.

 

[Z1GMA]

* Which moves do YOU save for the KO's?
DA, FAir, Down B, FTilt, DTilt
You're thinking aerial-wizkick-starKO, as a substitute for Dair-starKO, huh?

* Do you find any of his attacks effective when they are decayed?
NAir
Interesting.. Care to explain?

Overall your list looks pretty intresting, Shadow Nataku.
Seems like youre using most of his strongest attacks for damage racking, and his quicker moves for KO's..
Am I right?

I'm surprised that you guys keep telling me to save my dash attack.......I find it as one of the few viable ways to punish characters OoS and from medium range.

Don't you worry, Marsulas... I too, use DA the "wrong" way :]

 

[Shadow Nataku]

You're thinking aerial-wizkick-starKO, as a substitute for Dair-starKO, huh?

Yep, you'd be surprised at the sheer power of a fresh aerial Wizkick, however thats not the only reason why, some people tend to forget the raw power and massive hitbox of a Wizkick spike. I tend to KO with wizkick in 1 of two ways.

1) While recovering, if I'm knocked up high or an opponent chases me. Aerial Wizkick for the KO and to put Ganon safely back on the ground where he belongs, its very rare even if they see it coming that they can dodge it. Also if you space this well enough its possible to grab the ledge out of an aerial wizkick.
2) Reverse wizkick, the main spiking part of the hitbox is underneath his butt so a simple reverse wizkick when they try recover or get behind you can result in a spike. In a worst case scenario they'll still be launched into the air.

Seems like youre using most of his strongest attacks for damage racking, and his quicker moves for KO's..
Am I right?

Sort of, since FAir is hardly what I'd call fast, in fact I think its slower than his FSmash. But its whatever is easier to hit with, not much good having the strongest KO moves when you can't hit when you need to.

FTilt and DTilt come out nice and quick, Wizkick, FAir and DA have disjointed hitboxes which means even if you see it coming its pretty impossible to dodge anyway.

Imo I tend to class DAir as an 'accidental' KO, I just find its not reliable as a finisher and whenever I do kill with it. Its usually an easy spike or completely by accident while retreating.

Interesting.. Care to explain?

Two reasons, when decayed NAir tends to retain its hit stun but without as much knockback so you can actually connect with both hits which also doubles as a safeguard.

Though it never quite works out for me, my more common decayed move tends to be BAir since its easier to buffer which I regret sometimes since the reduced returns is really noticeable on BAir. But unlike NAir theres no 2nd hit to cover my landing so some heavier characters can recover quite quick.

Second reason is NAir has some funky priority going on and negates most projectiles in the game. I've tested this out and it outprioritizes quite alot of stuff and they all count as a hit too so its kinda hard for it not to be decayed.

 

[Z1GMA]

Nice read. thx.

1) While recovering, if I'm knocked up high or an opponent chases me. Aerial Wizkick for the KO and to put Ganon safely back on the ground where he belongs

One cool thing when your opponent chases after you while youre recovering is when you hit him with an aerial wizkick on your way back; and since your opponent most likely is DI'ing towards you (away from stage), he spikes him self (sort of).. Even though there's ground under him ^^

 

[PK-ow!]

* Which moves do YOU save for the KO's?
I used to save ftilts, but after using my science on it, there's no point in that. Only against the super lightweights (like, it stops at Kirby).
So I don't save anything. Well, I save bairs, but not for KOs. I just find them ineffective if they're stale at all.

* Which moves do YOU use the most, for damage racking?
Umm... dtilt, I guess. There are times when other moves could theoretically land, when I know I'd rather setup the positional relation caused by dtilt. And of course you can't forget dair and uair. I probably use uair more than dair. But right now I don't land any of them as much as dtilt.

* Which moves do YOU use the most, for refreshing Ganon's KO-moves?
Not applicable. You use what you use. You mix up your attacks if you can, and then your moves are refreshed. That's it.

* Do you find any of his attacks effective when they are decayed?
dtilt. If it's not going to KO, I don't really need my opponent flying around so high. I'd rather see him pop off the ground awkwardly.


Nair deserves special mention. Either you save it or you decay it. Too much lag not to do either. Decaying it... I think I'll try that out. I agree with the reasoning of Shadow Nataku. Plus you basically need it to disrupt cheap combos early on - as in, the combos don't work, but only because of nair, so if you don't use nair, you're giving damage to them they shouldn't have. Hence, 'cheap'.

 

[Anomilus]

* Which moves do YOU save for the KO's?

> Uh.... I don't really think about it. I just hit whenever I can hit then try and get them dead.

* Which moves do YOU use the most, for damage racking?

> Flame Choke, DTilt, UAir, grab+throws, DAir, BAir, Jab, DA

* Which moves do YOU use the most, for refreshing Ganon's KO-moves?

> Never really think about it, kind of how I don't think about reserving KO moves.

* Do you find any of his attacks effective when they are decayed?

> I find DA INeffective, but other than that I don't think about it. =/

 

[hyperstation]

* Which moves do YOU save for the KO's?

It depends on the match-up. DA gets me a lot of KOs, especially when guaranteed out of Gerudo. An up-tilted Fsmash and FTilt are usually pretty fresh. Run off BAir and UAir for stage spikes. FAir in general and run off FAir have been getting me a lot of KOs recently too. I get most of my kills beyond the ledge in a ton of different ways. Tippered UAirs and run off UAirs get gimp kils on recovering foes too.

* Which moves do YOU use the most, for damage racking?

DTilt, Gerudo -> Follow-ups, Pummel + Fthrow, Jab, DAir, Dash Attack, Wiz Kick (I use almost his whole moveset, actually, but it changes depending on the match-up)

* Which moves do YOU use the most, for refreshing Ganon's KO-moves?

Pummel + Fthrow, Gerudo, DAir, jab, wiz kick.

* Do you find any of his attacks effective when they are decayed?

DAir, jab, Dthrow, UAir chains via BDC

 

[thexsunrosered]

hey zigma, idk if you've made a thread about your flipman jump, but while i do it, i sometimes land a forward or neutral air onto the stage, and i just wanted to know if you had worked with this or not, because i noticed when doing the fair, the range is about the same as his ledge attack except stronger x569632, especially when fresh, adding a little more fear into approaching a ledgeside ganon

 

[Z1GMA]

Yea, all of his aerials can be performed ledge->stage, but only Uair & Bair can be auto canceled; which makes them much more safe than the other ones.
(Though I can't find any use of the auto canceled Bair ledge->stage)

Oh.. You can ask this kind of stuff in the Q/A-thread, next time.