Stages in Project M: Are We Using the Right Ones?

[TheGhostlyPidove]

There is actually, it's recently fallen to page 2.
http://smashboards.com/threads/legal-stage-list.349045/

What is CEO's stagelist by the way ?

They will have Apex rules, I believe.

 

[socandrewcer]

There is actually, it's recently fallen to page 2.
http://smashboards.com/threads/legal-stage-list.349045/

What is CEO's stagelist by the way ?

Can I change it to how I want it to be though?

 

[socandrewcer]

Can I change it to how I want it to be though?

Edit: Crud I quoted the wrong post

 

[kaizo13]

Counterpicking is already tough in Project M tournaments, I'm all for more stages being #BANNED

this man speaks the truth!
#BANNED

 

[KinGly]

This might just be my stupid competitive side talking, but is rather have less picks. I'd prefer to see the super small stages like warioware and the sonic stage done away with because they give to big an advantage to certain characters, or stages like final destination which gives a disadvantage to anyone without a good projectile.

 

[666blaziken]

I think that it would be a good idea if PMBR were to take a page from Super Smash Flash 2 and make a hazard switch (hazards can be turned off, such as the pokemon stadium 1 for individual stages.

 

[Drodeka]

Less stages, not more stages, the minority has spoken!

 

[Chilex]

May someone tell me why is Dracula's Castle banned? I see it as a neutral/counterpick.

 

[extremechiton]

all stages in smash 4 will have a fd form.
im totally fine with that.

 

[Timic83]

needs a metal gear neutral. how the **** do we have a castlevania counterpick but not a metal gear one, i thought they wouldn't put new franchises into the game

 

[JesseMcCloud]

I really liked Strong Bad's statement about Metal Cavern and Distant Planet being viable. And frankly, I'm against any stage with 'gimmicks' or hazards; even PS1 and Frigate Orpheon allow for too much random chance/interference.

 

[Radical Larry]

I have a spot-on idea on how to possibly resolve this. My philosophy on the stages should all be as follows, and please note that I am not trolling and this is my opinion on how the stage roster should work, going by order of the image:

Indicates Allowed (Singles and Doubles)
Indicates Allowed (Doubles)/Counterpick(Singles)
Indicates Allowed (Singles)/Counterpick (Doubles)
Indicates Banned (Overall)

Battlefield - No abnormalities; very basic stage with no hazards.
Big Blue - Too many hazards, platforms. Rare blastline under stage, which is mostly covered up by the track. Track results in KO if not escaped from in time.
Brinstar - Acid deals damage and rises, disturbing gameplay, stage abnormalities include parts of the stage that can be attacked.
Castle Seige - No abnormalities; very standard layout with slim to no hazards, save recovery interruption from the stage.
Corneria - Arwings shoot the players at random, hazard near the bottom front of the stage. However, pretty standard layout for the stage.
Delfino Plaza - No hazards whatsoever. All parts of the stage have a lower blast-zone due to the removal of Swimming.
Distant Planet - No hazards whatsoever plus very standard layout.
Dracula's Castle - No hazards whatsoever. Very basic layout plus the only abnormalities being the moving soft-platforms.
Dreamland - No hazards save Whispy Woods. Very standard layout with straightforward platforms.
Final Destination - Most basic stage, no contest.
Flatzone 2 - Too many hazards, very small stage, no lower blastline.
Fountain of Dreams - Very basic layout similar to Battlefield; only abnormality is the moving soft platforms.
Fourside - Very large stage allowing for certain characters to camp, alongside parts of the stage known as "no-recovery zones" give the edge to meteor smashing players against opponents with bad recoveries.
Frigate Orpheon - Very standard layout; only abnormalities is the stage switching and moving platforms.
Green Hill Zone - Very standard layout; only abnormality is the moving platforms.
Halberd - Basic layout, though with some hazards including the floor on grounded opponents and the beam, both of which can be avoided.
Hyrule Castle - Very standard layout with no abnormalities nor hazards on the stage, though large and allows some camping.
Jungle Japes - Hazards include Klaptrap and raging waters that will KO the characters. Stage can allow for camping.
Kongo Jungle - Very standard layout; only abnormalities are the moving platforms.
Lylat Cruise - Very standard layout with no abnormalities whatsoever.
Metal Cavern/Metal Mario Stage - Very standard layout with no abnormalities; however, the blastline entirely large.
Norfair - Very standard layout with no hazards; only abnormality is moving soft platforms.
Onett - No lower blast zone, cars will occasionally attack the players; odded layout overall, allowing for some camping.
Peach's Castle - No hazards whatsoever, alongside basic layout. Only abnormalities are rising soft platforms.
Pictochat - Standard layout, save the hazards of the stage.
Pirate Ship - Hazards due to the occasional bombs.
Pokemon Stadium 1 - Stage has pretty basic layout at first, but allows for some camping once it changes. Stage alters drastically at times.
Pokemon Stadium 2 - Very basic layout with no hazards nor abnormalities.
Port Town Aero Dive - Hazards include the road and F-Zero cars. Stage is constantly moving and always alters the layout when the platform lands.
Rainbow Cruise - Though pretty basic layout first, the stage then alternates and includes hazards that would disrupt some gameplay.
Rumble Falls - Very basic layout with no abnormalities nor hazards.
Saffron City - Very basic layout with no hazards, but does allow for camping and the edge for meteor smashing opponents between buildings.
Shadow Moses Island - Though a very basic layout, there's no bottom blastline, instigating KOing opponents to the sides or above.
Skyloft - Very basic layout with no hazards nor abnormalities whatsoever.
Skyworld - Very basic layout, but stage can be physically altered to give advantages to opponents. Players can meteor with the stage, giving them an unfair advantage.
Smashville - Very basic layout with no hazards, only abnormality is the moving platform.
Summit - Too much sliding, giving Ice Climbers the advantage. Stage starts sliding, and anyone caught under the stage when it slides will be KO'd. Additional hazards include falling ice and the giant fish.
Temple - Too large, campy and overall a punishment zone.
Training Room - Very basic layout with no hazards nor abnormalities. However, the left side is completely blocked off, meaning you will have to KO from the right side, above or below. Bottom blast line is hard to get to, as the stage almost blocks that off, as well.
WarioWare, Inc. - Very basic layout with no hazards nor abnormalities.
Yoshi's Island - Very basic layout with no hazards, abnormalities include rising soft platforms on the sides and mobile soft platform in the middle/
Yoshi's Story - Very basic layout with no hazards. Abnormalities include mobile cloud near the bottom.

Again, this is what I think the stages should be. However, what stage do you think should be changed up and why? Please reply with quoting this to tell me what you think should be changed.

 

[D1]

Less stages, not more stages, the minority has spoken!

This is true since I am African American.

 

[Mr.Lemon]

I attend the smashing grounds weekly and I realized that there are just too many stages with not enough bans. There are many stages that are big and many that are small so if you want to ban all big stages you can't you are forced to leave some in. Since there are so many neutral stages I feel like something similar to what The NZA is doing at smashing grounds which is switching the neutral and counter pick stages around. However, this does not solve the problem of there being too many stages. I feel there should be 3 or 4 separate lists of a mix of some neutral and counter pick stages, and the TOs choose which list is legal for their tourney.

 

[The Derrit]

I have a spot-on idea on how to possibly resolve this. My philosophy on the stages should all be as follows, and please note that I am not trolling and this is my opinion on how the stage roster should work, going by order of the image:

Indicates Allowed (Singles and Doubles)
Indicates Allowed (Doubles)/Counterpick(Singles)
Indicates Allowed (Singles)/Counterpick (Doubles)
Indicates Banned (Overall)

Battlefield - No abnormalities; very basic stage with no hazards.
Big Blue - Too many hazards, platforms. Rare blastline under stage, which is mostly covered up by the track. Track results in KO if not escaped from in time.
Brinstar - Acid deals damage and rises, disturbing gameplay, stage abnormalities include parts of the stage that can be attacked.
Castle Seige - No abnormalities; very standard layout with slim to no hazards, save recovery interruption from the stage.
Corneria - Arwings shoot the players at random, hazard near the bottom front of the stage. However, pretty standard layout for the stage.
Delfino Plaza - No hazards whatsoever. All parts of the stage have a lower blast-zone due to the removal of Swimming.
Distant Planet - No hazards whatsoever plus very standard layout.
Dracula's Castle - No hazards whatsoever. Very basic layout plus the only abnormalities being the moving soft-platforms.
Dreamland - No hazards save Whispy Woods. Very standard layout with straightforward platforms.
Final Destination - Most basic stage, no contest.
Flatzone 2 - Too many hazards, very small stage, no lower blastline.
Fountain of Dreams - Very basic layout similar to Battlefield; only abnormality is the moving soft platforms.
Fourside - Very large stage allowing for certain characters to camp, alongside parts of the stage known as "no-recovery zones" give the edge to meteor smashing players against opponents with bad recoveries.
Frigate Orpheon - Very standard layout; only abnormalities is the stage switching and moving platforms.
Green Hill Zone - Very standard layout; only abnormality is the moving platforms.
Halberd - Basic layout, though with some hazards including the floor on grounded opponents and the beam, both of which can be avoided.
Hyrule Castle - Very standard layout with no abnormalities nor hazards on the stage, though large and allows some camping.
Jungle Japes - Hazards include Klaptrap and raging waters that will KO the characters. Stage can allow for camping.
Kongo Jungle - Very standard layout; only abnormalities are the moving platforms.
Lylat Cruise - Very standard layout with no abnormalities whatsoever.
Metal Cavern/Metal Mario Stage - Very standard layout with no abnormalities; however, the blastline entirely large.
Norfair - Very standard layout with no hazards; only abnormality is moving soft platforms.
Onett - No lower blast zone, cars will occasionally attack the players; odded layout overall, allowing for some camping.
Peach's Castle - No hazards whatsoever, alongside basic layout. Only abnormalities are rising soft platforms.
Pictochat - Standard layout, save the hazards of the stage.
Pirate Ship - Hazards due to the occasional bombs.
Pokemon Stadium 1 - Stage has pretty basic layout at first, but allows for some camping once it changes. Stage alters drastically at times.
Pokemon Stadium 2 - Very basic layout with no hazards nor abnormalities.
Port Town Aero Dive - Hazards include the road and F-Zero cars. Stage is constantly moving and always alters the layout when the platform lands.
Rainbow Cruise - Though pretty basic layout first, the stage then alternates and includes hazards that would disrupt some gameplay.
Rumble Falls - Very basic layout with no abnormalities nor hazards.
Saffron City - Very basic layout with no hazards, but does allow for camping and the edge for meteor smashing opponents between buildings.
Shadow Moses Island - Though a very basic layout, there's no bottom blastline, instigating KOing opponents to the sides or above.
Skyloft - Very basic layout with no hazards nor abnormalities whatsoever.
Skyworld - Very basic layout, but stage can be physically altered to give advantages to opponents. Players can meteor with the stage, giving them an unfair advantage.
Smashville - Very basic layout with no hazards, only abnormality is the moving platform.
Summit - Too much sliding, giving Ice Climbers the advantage. Stage starts sliding, and anyone caught under the stage when it slides will be KO'd. Additional hazards include falling ice and the giant fish.
Temple - Too large, campy and overall a punishment zone.
Training Room - Very basic layout with no hazards nor abnormalities. However, the left side is completely blocked off, meaning you will have to KO from the right side, above or below. Bottom blast line is hard to get to, as the stage almost blocks that off, as well.
WarioWare, Inc. - Very basic layout with no hazards nor abnormalities.
Yoshi's Island - Very basic layout with no hazards, abnormalities include rising soft platforms on the sides and mobile soft platform in the middle/
Yoshi's Story - Very basic layout with no hazards. Abnormalities include mobile cloud near the bottom.

Again, this is what I think the stages should be. However, what stage do you think should be changed up and why? Please reply with quoting this to tell me what you think should be changed.

Holy.. the colors hurt my eyes make it stop

 

[TheFadedWarrior]

Brawl's stages were cool. They should have a version that has Brawl's stages.

 

[Joe73191]

Replace pokemon stadium 1 with Metal Cavern as a counter pick.

Allow Dracula's Castle, Norfair and Rumble Falls to be counter picks in doubles.

That is all.

 

[jayeldeee]

Look, this is what we do in SoCal, at least with SSS and Mayhem and such:

Neutral:
- Battlefield
- Pokemon Stadium 2
- Final Destination
- Smashville
- Dreamland 64

Counterpicks:
- Lylat
- Warioware
- Green Hill Zone
- Skyworld
- Distant Planet
- Fountain of Dreams

Pretty much everything else is banned, although I want Yoshi's Story Melee back. But for me, this is a pretty solid list.

 

[Vashimus]

why is training stage acceptable?

...It's not.

 

[NeffJeff95]

Am I the only one??? That doesn't like the fact they ban some stages, as of apex? The first page of stages seem balanced enough to me but if there are reasons on banning it, I won't argue

 

[pickle962]

The accepted Project M Stage List has been in place since Apex, but it looks like TOs are ready to start looking for change. Two major weekly tournaments, Xanadu and Smashing Grounds, are making alterations to their stage lists. This begs the question: is there room for stages to continue changing in the coming months?

Only 14 of these stages are acceptable according to the Apex ruleset. Is there room for more?
​

The Winds of Change

In recent weeks, two of the largest weeklies in the country have changed their stage lists from the Apex 2014 standard. The NZA, who is the TO of Smashing Grounds in Massachusetts, believes that further exploration of counterpicking possibilities will create a richer experience for players. "We create a stage list in order to test players in the greatest variety of ways while still making the game enjoyable and entertaining. The key is to maximize the forms of interaction between players, while still making it feel fair," he said.

Strong Bad, a well-known PMBR member, feels similarly. "'Bottom two rows legal' does not an optimal stage list make. A couple stages that really shouldn't be legal are, while stages that are more worthy candidates are doomed to 3rd-row bannage for no reason other than their physical position on the stage selection screen. In my opinion, Dracula's Castle, Distant Planet, and Metal Cavern are all better competitive stages than Pokemon Stadium 1 or Skyloft."

Xanadu's most current stage list removed the normally acceptable Pokemon Stadium 1 and Skyloft, replacing them with Distant Planet and Dracula's Castle. Smashing Grounds currently has PS1 and Skyword banned, while allowing Dracula's Castle.

What Else Should Be Considered?

If stage lists are to change, there are several questions to be considered. Should more counterpicks be added? Should there be a cap to the number of stages allowed in a single stage list? Should neutrals stay the same? What about the number of bans?

TKBreezy, the voice of Project M and TO/Commentator of Xanadu, had this to say: "If we can work out a good stage-to-ban ratio then we wouldn't have to worry about a cap. However I think two rows of stages, one being neutral and one being counter pick, is an excellent format. Let's just keep going with that." This would allow the current three-ban system to stay in place. "The Brawl in me says bring back Pictochat, but other than that I have no desire to really see any other banned stages return," he continued.

Would you be excited to see Pictochat in teams?
​

Strong Bad favors a more streamlined approach: "I personally go for 12-13 stages, with two bans. I think any more than two stage bans is unnecessary at this point in the game's lifespan. Most tournaments run 12-14ish stages; this means 28-33% of the legal stages get banned by players after the first game. You're also more likely to see situations of ban redundancy. For example, if you add Draculas Castle, Rumble Falls, Metal Cavern and increase the amount of bans, in many matchups these bans are simply used to ban similar stages. Players will ban Yoshi's Story/FoD/WarioWare/Metal Cavern if they're avoiding small stages, and Rumble Falls/Dreamland/Skyworld/Dracula's Castle if they're avoiding large stages."

The NZA, on the other hand, sees an opportunity for more sweeping stage changes. "Our goal with Smashing Grounds is to have new seasons bi-monthly that are accompanied by map pool changes, similar to professional Starcraft 2. This allows us to test the validity of several stages as 'fair' counterpicks and neutrals," he said.

"Every page one stage could potentially be adopted into Smashing Grounds’ future map pool. We are also not shy about rotating our starter list, and come this Thursday (that's tonight!) you can expect us to lose a starter and adopt a new one for Season 2."

Do We Need to Change at All?

Not every player is chomping at the bit for new counterpicks. GimR, head of the popular VGBootcamp stream, is just as happy to do without. "I'm one to only like Neutrals. I'm very quick to think a 'stupid' stage should be banned." He is not the only one to share that sentiment. "There is a rift between what the players want in my opinion, and it sort of comes from whatever game that person came from," explains TKBreezy. "Brawl players like diversity in stages and wanna see things like Castle Siege and Pictochat while many Melee players seem to be fine with just the neutral stages."

While changes in the tournament format may be exciting, it is important to keep our collective eye on what is important. The goal of diverse counterpicks is to keep gameplay from becoming stale. However, TKBreezy believes that focusing too much on stages may be missing the point. "[Crazy counterpicks] are not what makes this game exciting. It's the characters, the diversity in combos, the improvement you see in players as they continue to grow in the scene. A couple of jank stages isn't going to spice up the life of an already spiced up game."

No matter what version of Smash it may be, amazing moments between competitors are what make it great.​

With even more stages on the way, there is sure to be even more debate on stages and whether they should be neutrals, counterpicks or banned. What stages would you like to see used in the next big tournament? Or do you think that counter picks are annoying enough as is? Make your opinion heard in the comments below!

*Writer's Note* A huge shout out to Strong Bad, The NZA, TKBreezy and GimR for taking time out of their busy lives to discuss this topic with me. I linked all of their Twitter accounts to their names - go follow them if you want to hear from some of the biggest voices in the Project M community!

The Derrit wants to take people to Norfair and Delfino Plaza. Come talk to him about what stages you want to play in Project M on Twitter at @TheDerrit!

*yawn* why does the smash community have to be picky motherf***ers? about everything? I mean obviously stages like hanenbow are a no go, but still! The fact we debate about which stages should be legal and which should be counterpicks n sh*t is just sad!

 

[LOGIA666]

Along with marijuana, legalize Metal Cavern, Castle Siege, and Dracula's Castle.

 

[C.J.]

The only part of this that I have a REAL problem with is the following:

The goal of diverse counterpicks is to keep gameplay from becoming stale.

I don't know who said that, or why, but it's VERY far from accurate. Counterpicks are to prevent MUs from being near-unwinnable on certain stages (IC on FD on Brawl is a common example of a character+stage combination that is very strong, Marth vs Fox on FD is an example of a MU on a given stage that is advantaged one way solely because of the stage choice).

Even more so than that, Smash is NOT a traditional fighting game but is a game where stages have a large affect on the gameplay. Stage play, knowledge, and interaction is a HUGE part of the skill set that should be tested in smash (otherwise, you'd only play on literally one stage). As a tournament is a measure of who the best player is, given a pre-defined set of skills we want to measure by, and stage knowledge/usage/etc is one of those skills, then having a larger stage list only means that the players have to be better at more stages (i.e. more skillful) which is in line with the goal of a tournament. As long as the stage does not interfere with the match (e.g. hazards) and does not introduce elements of randomness (such that the worse player could beat the better one), then there is no objective reasoning that anyone has ever offered me as to why a stage should be banned. Reasons like what GIMR has, because it's a "stupid stage" are 100% subjective and why is his idea of "stupid" more valid than mine? Or Alex Strife's? Esam's? Banning a stage because it's "stupid" with no objective evidence against it is one of the most idiotic decisions a TO can make.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

I would like to see a 3-pool-system.
Pool 1 is neutrals, pool 2 "soft" counterpicks and pool 3 "hard" counterpicks.
In game 1, just neutrals are considered.
When counterpicking, everyone has a certain amount of "ban points". Now banning neutrals consume more ban points while you can ban more "hard" counterpicks with the same amount.
Example: You have 5 banpoints. With 1 banpoint, you can strike one neutral or two "soft" counterpicks or four "hard" counterpicks
Example for pool sorting:
Pool 1: Yoshis Story, Battlefield, Pokémon Stadium 2, Final Destination, Smashville, Dreamland, Fountain of Dreams
Pool 2: Dracula's Castle, Yoshi's Island, WarioWare, Green Hill Zone, Norfair, Skyworld
Pool 3: Pokémon Stadium 1, Lylat Cruise, Skyloft, most row 1s + maybe Delfino + Fregatte Orpheon

The stage list could differ in singles and doubles

 

[The Derrit]

*yawn* why does the smash community have to be picky motherf***ers? about everything? I mean obviously stages like hanenbow are a no go, but still! The fact we debate about which stages should be legal and which should be counterpicks n sh*t is just sad!

This is either flame bait or you really just don't get it. Probably a bit of both.

You're welcome to have your opinion but you are not welcome to be uncivil and attempt to incite flame wars. It's obvious everyone else here cares so coming in an and bashing the process puts you in the minority.

 

[ITALIAN N1NJA]

ITALIAN N1NJA... Paragraphs... please... paragraphs...

My apologies. I had an idea and wrote it down. Then I had another, and another, and so on. I tried to space the individual sections. I didn't mean to create a wall of text.

 

[-LzR-]

It's an easy to mistake to make. That's why I always press the preview button before posting anything longer than oneliners.

 

[NFTsmasher]

Is there a thread to discuss this? Because bottom two rows are not optimal stagelist.

I don't feel that any particular stage is unreasonable on the bottom 2 rows atm, but there's just to much overlap/redundancy that takes away from the game. Why does there need to be three big stages that are almost identical? (PS1/PS2/Dreamland) Why are there so many BF clones?

Many of those have noticeably different blast zones. And no, Dreamland and Pokemon Stadium are way different, plus Dreamland has Whispy Woods!

 

[NFTsmasher]

What about

I would like to see a 3-pool-system.
Pool 1 is neutrals, pool 2 "soft" counterpicks and pool 3 "hard" counterpicks.
In game 1, just neutrals are considered.
When counterpicking, everyone has a certain amount of "ban points". Now banning neutrals consume more ban points while you can ban more "hard" counterpicks with the same amount.
Example: You have 5 banpoints. With 1 banpoint, you can strike one neutral or two "soft" counterpicks or four "hard" counterpicks
Example for pool sorting:
Pool 1: Yoshis Story, Battlefield, Pokémon Stadium 2, Final Destination, Smashville, Dreamland, Fountain of Dreams
Pool 2: Dracula's Castle, Yoshi's Island, WarioWare, Green Hill Zone, Norfair, Skyworld
Pool 3: Pokémon Stadium 1, Lylat Cruise, Skyloft, most row 1s + maybe Delfino + Fregatte Orpheon

The stage list could differ in singles and doubles

Interesting concept. The actual values would need tweaking though. Perhaps, start with 3 ban points. 1 ban point is good for striking one neutral OR 2 "soft" counterpicks OR 3 "hard" counterpicks.

This would definitely allow incorporating a larger number of stages I think, but if you still don't like the newer, perhaps more controversially, stages you can ultimately ban more stages.

 

[sneakytako]

Many of those have noticeably different blast zones. And no, Dreamland and Pokemon Stadium are way different, plus Dreamland has Whispy Woods!

They are functionally the same when considering CPs and bans. The same type of characters need to have those three stages banned when it comes time to CP.

 

[Radical Larry]

Did anyone take the time to read my list of stage proposals? If you did, please quote it so I know. I really want opinions.

Edit: Only one took the time, though.

 

[UberMario]

ProjectMGame should utilize the Stage Expansion patch and make page 1 completely comp viable and page 2 silly stage

(assuming format in the 78-stage pack)
[Page 1]
*bottom row, viable in both 1v1 and 2v2*
-Final Destination [Melee]
-Smashville [Brawl]
-Battlefield [Brawl]
-Dreamland [64]
-Fountain of Dreams [Melee]
-Yoshi's Island [Brawl] (remove Support Ghost)
-Pokemon Stadium 2 [no transformation]
-Halberd [Brawl]

*second-to-lowest row, viable in 1v1 and 2v2 but more counter-pick-styled*
-Norfair [Project M] (uses custom stage slot so that the original version on Page 2 still retains it's sound effects)
-Distant Planet [Project M] (uses custom stage slot so that the original version on Page 2 still retains it's sound effects)
-Delfino Plaza [no transformation]
-Pokemon Stadium 1 [modified transformations to prevent blatant stalling positions]
-Lylat Cruise [no tilt, edge edited to be more forgiving than Brawl's]
-Princess Peach's Castle [64] (possibly with a grabbable edge)
-Congo Jungle [64, no cannon, reduced platform height]
-Bowser's Castle [Based off the version that has a battlefield-like design]


*third-to-lowest row, viable for 1v1*
-Yoshi's Story [Melee]
-Metal Cavern [64]
-Castle Siege [no transformations, uses a custom stage slot so that the transforming version for Page 2 still has proper sound effects]
-WarioWare [no transformations, uses a custom stage slot so that the transforming version for Page 2 still has proper sound effects]
-Green Hill Zone [Project M]
-Big Blue [Melee-Project M-style DL] (based off the mod which places the Falcon Flyer and a platform away from the road, making the racing go on in the background and away from the fighting)
-Fourside [Melee-Proejct M-style DL] (a "static" Halberd platform without the upper platform which rises up the skyscraper on Fourside)
-Yoshi's Island [64-Project M-style DL] (based off the modded version available)

*third highest row, counterpick-viable, but very dynamic*
-Pirate Ship [Brawl]
-Rainbow Cruise [Melee]
-Port Town Aero Dive [modified Brawl/Project M]
-Frigate Orpheon [Brawl]
-Pictochat [modified Brawl/Project M]

*second-highest row, counterpick-viable, but quirky*
-Skyworld [Project M]
-Hyrule Castle [64]
-Skyloft [Project M]
-Kongo Jungle [Melee]
-Jungle Japes [Melee]

*top row, viable for 2v2*
-Luigi's Mansion [Project M, reskin of Dracula's Castle]
-SSE: Jungle [Brawl]
-Rumble Falls [Project M]
-Princess Peach's Castle [central tower removed] (uses a custom stage slot so that Mario Circuit on page 2 can have proper sound effects)
-*a new stage designed specifically to fit this niche*

Page 2 has a medley of past stages from 64, Melee and Brawl, with non-static versions of Delfino Plaza, Castle Siege, WarioWare, Norfair, Big Blue, Pokemon Stadium 2, Green Hill Zone, Distant Planet and Norfair being placed in the same location as their static counterparts.

 

[batistabus]

This is what I posted in another thread.

I don't think there needs to be an official stage list, but I do think there should be an official NUMBER of stages. Every tournament should use X neutral stages and Y counter-pick stages. I could see neutrals becoming standard, be it 5 like in Melee or 7 like most PM rule sets have been so far. There are so many good stages in PM, but I do think there are too many to pick from during tournaments. I think picking between 10 or whatever awesome counter-picks is really subjective, so to say that some should be allowed while others aren't is pointless. Leave it up to the TO.

As for neutrals, I'd prefer 5 like in Melee. Battlefield, Smashville, Yoshi's Story, Pokemon Stadium 2, and Dreamland 64. I don't think FD is neutral, and FoD is just slightly more weird than the rest of those. I'm not sure how many cps there should be, but I'd like fewer than are currently allowed by most TOs.

 

[igloo]

Does anyone at tournaments ever play at Pictochat ?

 

[Radical Larry]

Does anyone at tournaments ever play at Pictochat ?

Pictochat has too many hazards for the stage, which would give the advantage to one player, but hinder the other.

 

[BigglesWorth]

I would love to do singles on Distant Planet.

 

[igloo]

Oh okay that makes sense. Poor pictochat.

Also if Distant Planet is a problem due to lighting couldn't the PMBR just fix that ?

 

[Deleted member]

I made the common5.pac for Smashing Grounds. Shoutouts to The NZA for asking me to do that. :D

 

[Overswarm]

WTF would you need more than one ban?

A ban is meant as a failsafe in unique situations (such as ICs always having FD as their best stage) and preference (such as Fox banning Battlefield vs. Marth one day, but banning Yoshi's Story the next).

If you have a specific # of bans for balance purposes then your stage list is wonky and needs changing. "Having a disadvantage" is normal in a CP situation, but having a insurmountable one is not.

If you think someone should be able to say "i don't like big stages, I ban all big stages" then I'm really confused.

More than one ban is foolish.

 

[Kankato]

WTF would you need more than one ban?

A ban is meant as a failsafe in unique situations (such as ICs always having FD as their best stage) and preference (such as Fox banning Battlefield vs. Marth one day, but banning Yoshi's Story the next).

If you have a specific # of bans for balance purposes then your stage list is wonky and needs changing. "Having a disadvantage" is normal in a CP situation, but having a insurmountable one is not.

If you think someone should be able to say "i don't like big stages, I ban all big stages" then I'm really confused.

More than one ban is foolish.

The sheer amount of stages currently available make one ban failsafes not enough. With only one ban, Ivysaur cannot strike her worst stage (YS, because Randall ruins her tether) & still have to fight Icies on FD or GHZ (mostly flat as well). Two or three bans covers this problem more effectively.