Stage builder - Alleviating the lack of competitive stages?

[Loki]

I was pretty surprised after watching the lastest Ndirect how flexible the stage builder was now compared to its former iteration. It looks more flexible and robust in its capabilities to create stages, therefore this brings the topic at hand:

Is the new stage builder a good solution to the seemingly lack of competitive stages?

Smash4WiiU has more stages, obviously, but we still dont know how invasive their hazzards might be, also, some 3ds stages that might be considered legal are not on the WiiU version. Aside from the fact that nintendo might or might not provide us with a good ammount of competitive stages, what are your opinions on how the new stage builder could boost the stage selection? Does it new apparent flexibility allow for new, creative and balanced stages? Or is it still too limited and plain for it not be considered?

I personally think it is a great response to this glaring issue we have been discusing ever since the game release. Also, disponibility shouldnt be a problem as nintendo will make it possible to upload these created stages so any TO should be able to get his/her hands on them with relative ease once the system is up.

 

[Eji1700]

I'm hoping we can put together a "competitive" stage pack that would be tourney standard to include, using the layouts of some of the more popular older stages, and maybe a few ones that would've been interesting except there was some crazy hazard.

 

[Zero Suit Senpai]

Completely agree. I hope the competitive community can get together and decide on some accepted neutral custom stages given the new flexibility of the stage builder.

Unfortunately it might be hard to ensure that everyone makes the stages the exact same way, so it might not happen :/

 

[Eji1700]

Completely agree. I hope the competitive community can get together and decide on some accepted neutral custom stages given the new flexibility of the stage builder.

Unfortunately it might be hard to ensure that everyone makes the stages the exact same way, so it might not happen :/

Cloned memory cards/saves should be possible.

 

[Tremendo Dude]

Aside from that, there should be a way to share the stages via sending files over the internet. Perhaps the stages can be saved to an SD card.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

"Lack" of stages?

 

[Zero Suit Senpai]

"Lack" of stages?

Lack of neutral stages, yes. The game certainly doesn't lack fun stages, but it does lack neutral ones. It's a problem that this game has (at least on 3DS). The only neutral stages are Battlefield and Yoshi's Island.

 

[KlefkiHolder]

Lack of neutral stages, yes. The game certainly doesn't lack fun stages, but it does lack neutral ones. It's a problem that this game has (at least on 3DS). The only neutral stages are Battlefield and Yoshi's Island.

And FD... Less neutral is may be but it is considered a starter. Imo its not more slanted than YI B

 

[Morbi]

It is an interesting idea for certain; however, I highly doubt we could come together and create an objective stage builder list. Historically, we have only needed 3-6 stages anyways. Variety is the spice of life, but spice is not necessary.

 

[Sleeplost]

I never took this into consideration!

I'm not a competitive player, and I really REALLY enjoy all of the stages and love the look of all of them. More specifically Kalos Pokemon League, Gamer, etc.
However I did notice the lack of competitive/neutral stages and with the Share function you could very well make competitive stages specifically for competitive play. Unfortunately I don't see them being too interesting due the lack of "themes" and there's been no mention of having fun little side-things like King Dedede flying in the back of Dreamland.

 

[Sir Bubbles]

Hopefully there's an online level viewer where people are able to upload and download new levels from the internet, as well as filters for finding said levels. This way it's easy too use these levels in a competitive manor

 

[Balgorxz]

Lack of competitive stages?
Final Destination
Battlefield
Big Battlefield
Omega with walls
Pilotwings
Town and City
Lylat Cruise
Smash Ville
Halberd
Miiverse

 

[Piford]

There is no lack of competative stages. With over 15 competitive stages known and probably more to unlock, there is definitely no lack. If the community can agree, we can use the stage builder to add even more stages, but there's definitely not a need to, nor should anyone say there's a lack of stages before the full list is revealed and we have our hands on the game.

 

[Jellyfish4102]

There is no lack of competative stages. With over 15 competitive stages known and probably more to unlock, there is definitely no lack. If the community can agree, we can use the stage builder to add even more stages, but there's definitely not a need to, nor should anyone say there's a lack of stages before the full list is revealed and we have our hands on the game.

This.

I think it would make a lot of people happy if we used stage builder to replicate the structure of favorite stages that didn't return. The best example I can think of would be Dreamland, wide bowl shaped stage with three relatively high platforms and big blast zones.

 

[Mamp]

This might be something to consider if the Wii U version was actually lacking good competitive stages, but it isn't. I don't think it's worth the hassle tbh.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Yeah, this would make sense if this feature were on 3DS, but on Wii U? We have something like 20 good looking legal stages; we're overflowing.

 

[Michaelrexx]

If it would be possible to make stages with smaller blast zones that could be pretty neat

 

[Thinkaman]

WiiU looks like it has at least 15 neutrals.......

We face a first-world problem of having way too many good stages to easily strike from.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Lack of neutral stages, yes. The game certainly doesn't lack fun stages, but it does lack neutral ones. It's a problem that this game has (at least on 3DS). The only neutral stages are Battlefield and Yoshi's Island.

Wii u is looking to have better stage selection than any of its predecessors. There isn't a lack of competitive stages. If anything people are going to start trying to reduce the stage count.

 

[Metal B]

Even so SSB4 has some good stages, there still a lot of unused neutral stage designs, which would bring some interesting complexities into the game. Since posting stages on Miiverse could become a thing, there is not problem of publishing those.

One idea would be the creation of true counterpick stages for every character. Specially designed stages to slightly give a character an advantage over other players. So characters would get even more complex. With people try to use the stages of there main to the maximum and others try to defeat there opponent regardless there.

 

[Saturnity]

If they could actually be shared easily, I could see something like a neutral PS1 custom becoming common. Other than that, I don't think so.

 

[vileguy]

D1 made a good point that custom stages will be banned because people will not agree on them. I agree with this point but have a good workaround the issue:

Make custom stages that are exact copies of stages minus unwanted hazards. Mute City and Reset Bomb Forest are 2 perfect examples of interesting stage layouts that are undermined by stage hazards. Mute City's V shaped platforms with no ground and space ship would be an okay counter pick. Reset Bomb Forest first transformation would be an amazing counter pick or possibly even a neutral.

Custom stages that are designed to be competitive could be good, but since people will complain about anything, we will never have unanimous consensus on anything that's not battlefield. Making custom versions of stages like Reset Bomb Forest would work because you don't have to convince someone that this stage is good, you only have to convince them it's an upgrade over the stock stage. The community can choose to ban these hazard-removed stages, but at least they're a better option than the original.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Custom stages are something that should be considered for 4 on 4 events. The game may not offer enough viable stages for such a format. There's definitely no need for them in singles or doubles competition though.

 

[Xinc]

Not sure if there'll be enough "tourney viable" stages from the full roster, but surely if there aren't enough, or if there are stages, for example, with too big boundaries, we can make stages that alleviate that issue.

Here's to hoping for a FoD or Yoshi's story.

 

[guedes the brawler]

for layour problems, we could try using the stage builder to make stages that aren't original.

what do i mean? well... we can use it to "fix" stages that are i some way or another, inviable to competitive play. recreating them without their problems, just using their layout (though if i am right, we can't determine blast zones and this might be a problem)

 

[popsofctown]

I'm expecting the previewed stages to have previously unmentioned dragons fly in from offscreen and kill everyone because I'm a pessimist.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

We could recreate Pyrosphere without Ridley; so there's a plus to this idea. I feel we should use this builder to just recreate old stages, and stages with too many hazards to be good instead of doing new stages. At least with a base to work with, we can have an easier time agreeing.

 

[Pazzo.]

I doubt we'll lack competitive and neutral stages. The Wii U seems to abound in them. So while the new stage builder will be awesome, we (competitive players) won't need it for SSB4.

 

[Random4811]

Lack of neutral stages, yes. The game certainly doesn't lack fun stages, but it does lack neutral ones. It's a problem that this game has (at least on 3DS). The only neutral stages are Battlefield and Yoshi's Island.

Arena Ferox is pretty tame, too. Though I have been seeing it more on people's legal stage lists, its still not something people note. I'm not sure if its considered "Neutral" or if its more of a CP. Its pretty close to Pokemon Stadium 1 in terms of stage stuff. Also, Prisim Tower is pretty tame, all of its movement is timed. But I'm not truly sure how to classify that one either.

 

[Random4811]

If the community could come together and make a few "stage packs" for TO's to use, maybe recreations of old stages, maybe some unique neutrals, because you /should/ be able to share stages amongst your friends at the very least- and if not you can download stage data and put it on a data device of some sort, and shove it into the Wii U.

 

[S2]

There looks to be quite a few good neutrals already. While some of the stages will probably be banned due to really unbalanced stage hazards, competitive smash usually also has a few counter-pick stages that aren't neutral, but don't feature too insane of hazards. The stage builder is fun, but it seems like trying to make competitive stage builder levels is solving a problem where there isn't one.

 

[M15t3R E]

I think you're proposing a radical solution to a problem which does not exist.

 

[YeahVeryeah]

I think having more counterpick stages could be a good use of the builder, since neutrals are in abundance.

I'm not sure if this is the right place per se, but I want to show you all a stage I had kicking in my head.

ZigZag

Unless I'm mistaken, high ground is typically a disadvantage in Smash Bros. The Stage has the slope to curb projectiles, but the right side (which is supposed to be advantageous,) is given a recovery killer ledge, while the left side has a platform (that maybe should move) and a recovery boosting ledge. The idea is to give non projectile users a slightly better approach without using platforms a la battlefield.

 

[ryuu seika]

Lack of neutral stages, yes. The game certainly doesn't lack fun stages, but it does lack neutral ones. It's a problem that this game has (at least on 3DS). The only neutral stages are Battlefield and Yoshi's Island.

Most of the stages the 3DS version has aren't fun either.
I, atleast, think that fighting against the wind detracts heavily from fighting other players on the Paper Mario stage, find the Spirit Train's camera panning unnatural feeling and annoyingly fatal, hate how soon a fall can spell your demise on Jungle Japes, get fed up of being ganged up on or winning without doing anything on Magicant, ragequit over Distant Planet's instadeath hazards, find Balloon Fight nigh unplayable, get tired of being unable to avoid blocks I see coming way in advance due to my character's poor speed in the Living Room, can't stand the massive hole that swallows me every time I play on Green Hill Zone or Brinstar* and don't see why I should be forced to play around a recurring boss that takes up half the darn stage on Wily's Castle.
And this is from someone who loved Pokefloats and Rainbow Cruise!

We seem to be seeing a lot of hazard and item power creep in this series, to the point where playability of the games seems to have gone out the window.

*I know this is a player controlled hazard but when you can destroy it so easily and lose your recovery move in the process, it becomes kind of ridiculous. The stage was much fairer back in Melee.

 

[Gidy]

What are these 15 viable stages for the Wii U version?

 

[shapular]

What are these 15 viable stages for the Wii U version?

I don't know which ones Amazing Ampharos and Thinkaman were referring to, but I'll throw in my input:

Definitely legal:
Battlefield
Final Destination+Omegas
Big Battlefield
Miiverse
Pilotwings
Town and City
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Smashville

Maybe legal:
Gamer (please let this stage be good it looks awesome)
Garden of Hope
Jungle Hijinxs
Kalos Pokémon League
Mario Circuit
Mushroom Kingdom U
Orbital Gate Assault (no idea how this one really works though)
Skyloft
Windy Hill
Woolly World
Wuhu Island
Kongo Jungle 64 (depending on if the game's mechanics make it as bad for camping as in Melee)

So there's 23 of them. Decent chance 15 or more will end up being good.

 

[Gidy]

I don't know which ones Amazing Ampharos and Thinkaman were referring to, but I'll throw in my input:

Definitely legal:
Battlefield
Final Destination+Omegas
Big Battlefield
Miiverse
Pilotwings
Town and City
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Smashville

Maybe legal:
Gamer (please let this stage be good it looks awesome)
Garden of Hope
Jungle Hijinxs
Kalos Pokémon League
Mario Circuit
Mushroom Kingdom U
Orbital Gate Assault (no idea how this one really works though)
Skyloft
Windy Hill
Woolly World
Wuhu Island
Kongo Jungle 64 (depending on if the game's mechanics make it as bad for camping as in Melee)

So there's 23 of them. Decent chance 15 or more will end up being good.

Pilotwings has stage hazards on the side of the blastzones. Delfino Plaza has swimming and walkoffs. Castle Siege has a walk off in it's second form. Miiverse is battlefield. Is smashville coming back with town and city?

I barely see any good picks.

Edit: Okay, after reading up on the SmashWiki, I see that some of my points aren't valid. But even so we could definitely make better counterpicks than the ones we have now.

 

[Quillion]

Stage Builder should never be used as a terrible excuse to have unusable competitive stages. If we're only going to rely on custom stages for competitive, we won't be able to smash on the fun, Nintendo-themed stages and we'll be stuck with the generic-themed stages that we can make.

 

[Gidy]

Stage Builder should never be used as a terrible excuse to have unusable competitive stages. If we're only going to rely on custom stages for competitive, we won't be able to smash on the fun, Nintendo-themed stages and we'll be stuck with the generic-themed stages that we can make.

Halo does a mix of both competively.

 

[Quillion]

Halo does a mix of both competively.

Which doesn't mean that Smash should do it too. There's a reason why Brawl never had any custom stages in competitive, since no one wants to smash on a stupid generic stage.