SSBM Statistics List

[Mew2King]

wtf ur serious?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

IVE BEEN DOING IT THE HARD HARD HARD HARD WORK WORK WORK WAY THIS WHOLE ENTIRE TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Neophos]

but i still cant figure out how to count frames..without AR...

like, have 45 Foxes do shine after eachother, so you know a move is 45 frames???

 

[SuperDoodleMan]

I can't really test the relative range of grabs any more accurately than MaskedMarth has (he made the grab range list). I assume he had the grabber remain stationary and inch the grabee closer until they are close enough to get grabbed. As far as a comparative list of best to worst, that's as accurate as you need to be. I checked the ones he listed as being tied (Peach/Falco, and Ness/Pikachu) and found this:

Ness and Pikachu are indeed tied, or so close the difference doesn't matter.

Falco appears to reach farther than Peach, but that may be because the measures I took to align them were foiled by Falco's tendency to stand on his rear foot. His whole body is slightly farther forward than Peach's when both are up against a wall, or standing on an edge. In these cases, he has superior range (slightly) but on open terrain, they're even.

And I have 2 question if you would be kind enough to respond. Is there a noticeable difference between the hitboxes on fox and falco's moves? Can you compare them?

The most noticable differences are the ones where attacks last longer or shorter, but those are listed in the charts I posted. If you mean range, then no. They're very close clones. Even both of their down airs start hitting on frame 5 and stop on frame 24 (though Fox's has some holes and lasts much longer if each hit hits something causing stun).

And is it possible to test the range on the grab range of the characters for grabbing the ledge of the stage with AR? You probally cant but do you know if character grab range, item grab range, and ledge grab range are the same or atleast simular?

As far as I can tell, they are unrelated. Taller characters can grab items from farther away than puny characters. Item grabbing and ledge grabbing don't have any boxes or anything, so I'm in no better position to test the relative ranges of those than anyone else. Same for jumping height, or anything involving speed of movement.

 

[Mew2King]

Rolling Distance - shows overall rankings for how far each character rolls (average between Forward and Back rolls)

1) Mewtwo (by a long run)
2) Marth
3) Samus
4) Pichu
5) Sheik
6) Falco
7) Roy
8) Ganondorf
9) Luigi
10) DK
11) Link
12) Pikachu
13) Ice Climbers
14) Captain Falcon
15) Fox
16) Zelda
17-18) Dr. Mario / Mario
19) Jigglypuff
20) Ness
21) Kirby
22) Yoshi
23) Peach
24) Young Link
25) Mr. Game & Watch
26) Bowser

-

Forward Rolling Distance

1) Mewtwo
2) Marth
3) Sheik
4) Pichu
5) Samus
6) Falco
7) DK
8) Ganondorf
9) Roy
10) Luigi
11) Pikachu
12) Link
13) Ice Climbers
14) Captain Falcon
15) Fox
16) Zelda
17-18) Dr. Mario / Mario
19) Jigglypuff
20) Kirby
21) Yoshi
22) Peach
23) Ness
24) Bowser
25) Young Link
26) Mr. Game & Watch

-

Backwards Rolling Distance

1) Mewtwo
2) Marth
3) Samsu
4) Falco
5) Pichu
6) Roy
7) Sheik
8) Ganondorf
9) Luigi
10) Link
11) Ness
12) DK
13) Ice Climbers
14) Captain Falcon
15) Fox
16) Pikachu
17-18) Dr. Mario / Mario
19) Jigglypuff
20) Zelda
21) Kirby
22) Yoshi
23) Peach
24) Young Link
25) Mr. Game & Watch
26) Bowser

-

Barrel/Crate Pick-Up Time - shows how long (in frames) it takes characters to pick up Barrels/Crates/Party Balls (first number is the actual starting time when it's technically in your character's hands, and the second number is the total time to fully pick the barrel/crate before you can walk or throw it)

3 / 19 - Bowser
4 / 19 - DK
3 / 23 - Mewtwo / Yoshi
3 / 24 - Captain Falcon / Ganondorf / Samus
3 / 26 - Dr. Mario / Ice Climbers / Luigi / Mario / Ness
14 / 29 - Mr. Game & Watch
5 / 31 - Peach / Zelda
4 / 33 - Kirby
4 / 34 - Link / Young Link
5 / 37 - Falco / Fox / Sheik
4 / 39 - Pichu / Pikachu
4 / 43 - Roy
9 / 43 - Marth
4 / 49 - Jigglypuff

-

Grabbing Range (relative approximations)

1) Samus
2) Link
3) Young Link
4) Marth
5) Roy
6) Yoshi
7) Kirby
8) Sheik
9) Zelda
10) Falco
11) Jigglypuff
12) Mewtwo
13) Peach
14) Fox
15) Luigi
16) DK
17) Ice Climbers
18) Mr. Game & Watch
19) Ganondorf
20) Captain Falcon
21-22) Dr. Mario / Mario
23) Bowser
24) Pichu
25) Ness
26) Pikachu

***Mario MIGHT hae longer range by like ....... a fraction of a millimeter or so..... but it's WAY too hard to tell even IF there is ANY of a difference

*****Gdorf and C. Falcon have slightly less range when on flat ground compared to the 2 Marios, but when they are even (Marios on a little platform like the one near P1's position on Hyrule Temple so they are about the same height) then Gdorf and C.F. have [sorta] noticably more range.

*******Unlike what I did with Bowser and Pichu (and Ness and Pikachu) this is on flat ground.

This is my final Grabbing Range list; I'm not changing it now.

I am now adding this to my website, although I haven't updated my stat list here for like a week (June 31st was my last update on the stat list here at smashboards)

 

[JayJay]

Wow, very impressive. Really, how do you find out the time it takes for specific characters to pick up crates down to the very last frame!?

 

[Vinniek]

Originally posted by SuperDoodleMan
Yeah, it's easy. In development mode, you can stop time with start, and go ahead one frame by pushing Z. You can also make it show the hitboxes (as well as get hit boxes and grab boxes) and invincibility, among other things.

How do you get in development mode? I have AR and I can go in debug mode and do some cool stuff but I have no idea how to see hitboxes and frames. Can you give me a link to the website where you got the codes from?

---

Mew2King, I know your probally not thinking about adding new things to your statistics list but if you are going to I think you should make a shield size list and also a shield size to body size comparison. Actually you should have a section for shields with shield sizes, shield sizes compared to body sizes, if some characters shields drain faster or suffer more from being hit. I think this would be alot more usefull to know than alot of your other statistics.

 

[Mew2King]

if some characters shields drain faster or suffer more from being hit.

-------------------------

All shields drain at the same speed, in percentages. For example, let's say (this is just a made up example) after 1 second the shield is 85% of it's full size, it goes like this for every character. Obviously, Yoshi's egg is always the same size, and also, Yoshi's shield lasts a whopping.......... 1 frame longer than all the other shields. Of course, it has 17 frames shield-release-recovery-time and it can't reflect projectiles (I'm pretty sure) so that's the catch of his unique shield. Shield to body size would be impossible to get exact ratings, as there are too many little factors when you get down to it, but shield normal size would be possible. I might test it when I'm bored again.

Anyway, I'm working on a Attack Power Degeneration list, and here is what I have so far... (note that for the 2nd and 3rd hits, they are actually strangely approx. 90.99% and between 82.95% and 82.99%, but they were so close to being rounded up I just rounded it anyway)

Attack Power Degeneration - shows how much weaker consecutive hits are, and how much Giant Melee, Tiny Melee, Super Mushrooms and Poison Mushrooms affect attack power.

Consecutive Hits - % of max power

1 - 100%
2 - 91%
3 - 83%
4 -
5 -
6 -
7 -
8 -
9 -
10 or more - 55%

--Giant Melee = 120%
--Super Mushroom = 120%
--Poison Mushroom = 87.5%
--Tiny Melee = 83.75%

--Giant Melee + Super Mushroom = 142.5% (Super Mushroom X 1.875)
--Giant Melee + Poison Mushroom = 97.5% (Poison Mushroom X 0.8125)
--Tiny Melee + Super Mushroom = 90.75% (Super Mushroom X 1.08358)
--Tiny Melee + Poison Mushroom = 79.375% (Poison Mushroom X 0.94776)

---------------------------

Notes to self for very-soon to do stuff

-remember to update F-Zero GX records (Big Blue: Drift Highway now 59"350, like 16th or 17th or something best in world)

-remember to update Metroid Prime by adding Enemy HP List

 

[SuperDoodleMan]

When you're in the main debug menu, go down to the thing that says Master (while you're here, change the language from JP to US if you want) and make it say Develop instead (4 times to the right i think.

Here are some of the more useful things you can do:

R+dpad right - display that characters hitboxes
R+dpad up - display all hitboxes
R+dpad down - change stage textures
cstick - camera angle
dpad up - change camera setting, dissappear your dress if you have one
dpad left+cstick - zoom camera
dpad right+cstick - pan camera
Y+dpad down - display frame numbers
Y+dpad left - grow
Y+dpad right - ungrow
A+dpad right - superfast mode

These are from memory, so I may be mistaken.

 

[Mew2King]

gah, you have all that at your disposal! **** you got it so easy =/

 

[Vinniek]

Thanks alot for telling me how to get in development mode, its so cool.
For a while i couldent figure out how to get out but I found out X + D pad up pauses the game like its paused in vs mode or 1 player mode and you can press start + some other buttons to quit.
Also, did you figure those things out yourself or is there a website with all the button combinations and their function?

I am suprised everyone dosent have an AR, you can do so many cool things and I think by knowing all the things in the game that you cant see like hitboxes, you better understand your character's moves and it makes you better. You can see the KO point on the top of the stages, when your invencible during ledge attacks and such, and of corse little random things like did you know you can only get 150 damage from being in a bubble off-screen.

Mew2king, it would have been SO mutch easier doing all those statistics you did with AR.

 

[SuperDoodleMan]

I got the info from codes.ssbm.org, but when I tried going there recently, I couldn't find anything on the development mode commands, just codes. There are a lot of codes there, though, if you want to fool around with those.

 

[detroit121]

wow

 

[CosmicSlice]

Mew2King : Do you have any information on interupted grabs? at high percents, it makes the grabbed opponent go flying.

What i mean is like this

A B C

B grabs C
A attacks B
B's grab goes away
C goes flying (at high percents)

whats the deal?

 

[AndroidFroggy]

This list is amazing!

 

[sauce]

ROy's counter is like really strong. This list is also big as ****.
Congratulations. You should work for a company that writes manuals for keyboards, or somthine

 

[Mew2King]

hey it actually let me post this time (stupid load times on my computer)

anyway, I'll update my site in ...sometime soon (whenever i feel like it, because it takes like LITERALLY an hour sometimes to just get to the "Edit homepage" thing, but here's Shield Size list to hold you over I guess

---------

Shield Size - shows the order of the character's shields, from biggest to smallest (this does NOT compare Shield Size to Body Size RATIOS, just Shield Size, and some of the rankings near the middle and bottom are EXTREMELY close, and I rechecked my work A LOT, especially the big Z shield on Giant Melee and sometimes even with Super Mushrooms to check my work over and over and over again, so it's the best I could possibly do, which is obviously the best known list to go by) 1) Bowser (by far) 2) DK 3-5) Ganondorf / Mewtwo / Sheik 6) Zelda 7) Captain Falcon 8-9) Link / Samus 10-12) Falco / Fox / Ness 13-14) Kirby / Peach 15-16) Luigi / Marth 17) Roy 18-20) Ice Climbers / Jigglypuff / Pichu 21-22) Dr. Mario / Mario 23) Young Link 24) Mr. Game & Watch 25) Pikachu *Yoshi's Egg Shield is an oval shape, doesn't shrink in size as time goes on, and can't become bigger by holding R/L lightly or by pressing Z (although you can increase the lasting time by holding Z, which will also reduce your traction by doing so) so that's why it can't be put into my list

 

[CaliburChamp]

How many frames is it from air dodge to hookshot? I believe after 1/2 second after you use air dodge you can shoot out the hookshot/grapple.

Another thing... How about Air Dodge to edgehog? When you air dodge to the edge you edgehog when your farther away than when your closer. I hope that makes sense.

 

[Mew2King]

10 frames starting time for Samus's air grapple, but Link and Young Link start theirs on frame 11 (one frame slower than Samus's air grapple)

 

[Crash]

and thats why samus is higher on the tier list...

 

[Thomas Tipman]

hey mew2king what do you do to get those frame rates?im trying to get frame rate for ganons tilts.

 

[SuperDoodleMan]

Excerpted from my Ganondorf and Terminology frame guides:

F Tilt

Total: 29
Hit: 9-11
-------------------------------------
D Tilt

Total: 35
Hit: 10-12
IASA: 35
-------------------------------------
U Tilt

Total: 114
Hit: 81-83
IASA: 113
-------------------------------------

Total: 30

The total duration of the attack. If
the total is 30, you are stuck doing
that attack for 30 frames. Frame 1 is
the frame you pushed the button(s)
on that caused you to do the attack.

Hit: 12, 14-16

Frames during which there's a hitbox.
The same hitbox can't hit the same
opponent more than once. For B moves,
I may describe the hitboxes.

IASA: 28

Interruptible As Soon As. You can
do an attack, jump, dash, turn,
crouch, or shield on the IASA frame.
You can interrupt with B moves on the
ground only.

CaliburChamp: What do mean by "When you air dodge to the edge you edgehog when your farther away than when your closer"?

 

[Nekurbis86]

Does shiek needles travel the same distance and is it as fast as her arial needles? Also does it takes more framerates for shiek to exevute needls on the ground? I have a feeling I must've missed this with all the information that was given..

 

[CaliburChamp]

SDM: Characters cant grab the edge right after air dodging, it takes a few frames to edgehog after an air dodge. I think Mewtwo King already covered that aspect in his guide with the air dodge frames to edgehog. Its different for every character, framewise.

And a question I have. How many frames does Marth F-smash have just with C-stick. Cause Im looking for a move that can outprioritze Marth f-smash, and that comes out quicker than Marth F-smash. So far Ive seen Captain Jack's Doc outprioritze Marth f-smash with Docs f-tilt upwards, Doc's f-tilt comes out faster than Marth's f-smash too, so that how Captain Jack was safe from Azen's f-smashing Marth. And I was looking for how Link can outprioritize Marth f-smash fast. It will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Mew2King]

Does shiek needles travel the same distance and is it as fast as her arial needles? Also does it takes more framerates for shiek to exevute needls on the ground? I have a feeling I must've missed this with all the information that was given..

--------------------

yes, both in air and on the ground, 4 frames to start from a charging position, or 11 frames normally for just the first needle.

.

.

.


And a question I have. How many frames does Marth F-smash have just with C-stick. Cause Im looking for a move that can outprioritze Marth f-smash, and that comes out quicker than Marth F-smash. So far Ive seen Captain Jack's Doc outprioritze Marth f-smash with Docs f-tilt upwards, Doc's f-tilt comes out faster than Marth's f-smash too, so that how Captain Jack was safe from Azen's f-smashing Marth. And I was looking for how Link can outprioritize Marth f-smash fast. It will be greatly appreciated.

--------------------

10 frames (same as Samus's Forward Smash starting time), moves that ourprioritize it would keep you relatively safe as well, like with a disjointed hitbox. Marios up tilt WOULD fall into that category. Mario/Doc/Luigi's forward smash comes out frame 12. His up tilt comes out on frame 4. They're Forward or Forward-Down or Forward-Up Tilt come out frame 4 as well as his up tilt. For Link, I don't know, I would just wavedash backwards from him or SOMETIMES ground dodge it if your foe likes to abuse the forward smash with Marth. Sorry if this doesn't help.

 

[VilNess]

I think Ness can use his upangled f-tilt the same way as doc against marths fsmash, because it seems to work good against longer characters. The bat is slower, but because marth leans forward after the smash, you can WD backwards and Bat or run backwards and pivot that bat. but that doesn´t have much to do with frame rates

anyway: I want to thank you Mew2king for all these stats, they´ve been really helping me much! yer the King!

 

[SuperDoodleMan]

CaliburChamp: Characters CAN grab the edge right after air dodging, it's just that you are using a different meaning of the term "air dodge". You seem to think that the air dodge is over once you are no longer invincible, or maybe once they begin falling. This is not the case. Air dodges, like almost everything in this game, have some lag after the useful part is over. It doesn't mean the air dodge is over.

As for it being different for every character, you're wrong again. The only significant difference (in total time) from the most common air dodge is Mewtwo's, which ends 10 frames sooner. 5 characters's air dodges end 1 frame before the most common. The rest have the same total.

20 chars - 49 frames
5 chars - 48 frames (all 3 Marios, Ness, ICs)
1 char - 39 frames

Also, M2King doesn't have an air dodge to edgehog list on his website, nor did he post one here since his last website update.

 

[CaliburChamp]

It was probably their fall speed plus frames to edgehog after an air dodge which made me guess wrong. And with your first sentence, you just misinterpreted what I said unless I said it the wrong way. Cause I never said that you cant edgehog after air dodging. You do have to keep their fall speed in mind.

 

[SuperDoodleMan]

Originally posted by CaliburChamp
I never said that you cant edgehog after air dodging.

Earlier in that same post...

Originally posted by CaliburChamp
...frames to edgehog after an air dodge...

This implies that you still disbelieve that characters can grab an edge immediately after an air dodge.

And why should I keep falling speed in mind? I fail to see how it has anything to do with air dodge duration.

I get the feeling we are arguing against different things...

 

[CaliburChamp]

Nevermind, I just misunderstanded you or you misunderstanded me, and some characters have different air dodge frames, lasting longer or something, which was what i was tyring to point out.

 

[CosmicSlice]

M2k : What info do you have towards phantom hits?

and if you have any information on making falco's AUA hit twice without the bag/enemy moving, please let me know.

 

[Thomas Tipman]

M2K: you have the sheild release lag but not the initial sheild lag. i know yoshi and ice climbers are the laggest but have no clue on the rest. do you happen to know what they are? take your time on responding, you did a **** load.

 

[El Zorro]

I hate the ice climbers..
however...when u can play like chu..thats a totally different story.
he's god with the ice climbers

 

[korphaeron]

Good job, but did you have to go through all this just for a game?

 

[Fox4Evr]

WOW

WOW! thats quite amazing and helpful. nice

 

[Dark Arbiter]

Hey! I'M Blake Mutschler!

I noticed you credit Blake Mutschler and Aaron Kurtz for getting those weight statistics. I would just like to personally thank you for the credit as I am, indeed, the Blake Mutschler who recorded these weights. Aaron and I did it some years ago.

However, I have 2 questions.

1) What mistakes? The numbers you put up there are exactly what I have in my handwritten notes (which I just dug up after reading this)

2) How did you get this information? The only place either of us can remember sending it was Gamefaqs but to our knowledge they never posted it! I'ld love to know how it snaked its way over to you.

Thanks again. I feel so important now like I contributed something for posterity.

 

[Mew2King]

I think you had like 119 for Bowser instead of 117 or something like that, so that was the only mistake I remember. I realized your really EASY method which you didn't tell me >_> (item = 1 weight, so everything was easy to measure then) and rechecked it with A LOT of different ways and **** (I have nothing better to do) and found that they are indeed all correct. The way I know this is because you POSTED it. I forget if it was this particular topic or one of my older "SSBM Statistics List" topics (before it got put under "Important" I made different updates and stuff, and once that one time smashboards.com got "shut down" for like a month or something [like a year ago or something I forget exactly] I made another topic thankfully saving all my information before-hand). But this is getting off-topic now isn't it. Anyway, you posted this before like a year or two or something like that ago and I put it up, and you did say to credit it to you and your friend which is what I did. You messed up with Bowser I noticed, which I realize MAY have been a typo (117 not 119) but what I have now is correct from my own tests (and if you recheck it I assure you it WILL be correct).

 

[DoH]

Yet again, good job M2K

Does anyone have specific character's move's frame rates? Because I'd like to know how long it takes to start Nayru's Love...

 

[Thomas Tipman]

Nayru's Love

Total: 59
Hit: 12, 15, 18, 21, 24, 27,
Reflects: 4-41

props to superdoodleman for this.

 

[Varuna]

Hi I was wondering, after a wave dash there is a certain amount of time that you move forward or backwards before your shield activates ( if you hold onto L or R after the wave dash). There is also an amount of time... ( that i dont know) after a wave dash that you can do a move ( in this case a grab). Further more is there a difference in time between just Shield Grabbing and jump canceling your shield then grab canceling your jump.


Basically what im asking is what is the fast and or most effective way to grab out of a wave dash.. if this info is Character specific then the Character is falco.

 

[Thomas Tipman]

when you WD you get 10 frames o lag, your better off just grabbing out of a WD as opposed to sheild grabbing (if you can see your shield then you lost a prescious frame ).