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SSBM Statistics List
- Thread starter Mew2King
- Start date
Dark Schneider
Smash Apprentice
SSBM Stats list
Really amazing!, you did really well!.:D
Really amazing!, you did really well!.:D
Cheesed Marth
Smash Cadet
simply amazing. this data is an awesome sorce of info. bravo!
SNTRL
Smash Lord
Excellent! Excellent! Excellent! You did beyond a great job here. It must taken you alot of dedicaton.:D
CosmicSlice
Smash Apprentice
O_o
geez insane job dude. awesome.
geez insane job dude. awesome.
DraKmoN001
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2003
- Messages
- 88
Absolutely Amazing
That's a lot of work you put into that list but from the looks of it, Mr. Game & Watch doesn't seem to suck in most of the statistics given; in fact, there are at least two or three parts in which he's at least in the top half of all the character list.
So why are so many ppl saying that Mr. Game & Watch is last tier like Bowser?
It doesn't matter that much to me, but I'm just curious.
That's a lot of work you put into that list
but from the looks of it, Mr. Game & Watch doesn't seem to suck in most of the statistics given; in fact, there are at least two or three parts in which he's at least in the top half of all the character list.So why are so many ppl saying that Mr. Game & Watch is last tier like Bowser?
It doesn't matter that much to me, but I'm just curious.
Mew2King
King of the Mews
Because Mr Game & Watch has NOTHING he's really "good" at, so overall he sucks, or at least when compared to the other characters.
BTW, Sheik is beat overall, but even though that's the case I rule with Falco. Dash + Short jump towards enemy + Blaster right before you land + follow up combo up attack = great strategy sicne it throws off your opponents counter attack as you approach them. Spikes are punch punch and throw and reflector combos are great as well with Falco
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(DBZGT comes on in 15 minutes)
BTW, Sheik is beat overall, but even though that's the case I rule with Falco. Dash + Short jump towards enemy + Blaster right before you land + follow up combo up attack = great strategy sicne it throws off your opponents counter attack as you approach them. Spikes are punch punch and throw and reflector combos are great as well with Falco
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(DBZGT comes on in 15 minutes)
Mew2King
King of the Mews
hmmm..... I have an idea, and I will probably be adding it sometime soon.
I am probably going to add a Miscellaneous section here, having data that can't exactly be categorized like for example:
"After using an attack many times, it gets weaker. After 10 hits, it can't get any weaker, and at that point it is only 55% of it's normal power. Also, the KO power is weakened as well, and this doesn't apply to most items, and certain moves like Peach's turnips"
^
.l
or something like that.
.
.
so... any suggestions for it, and I'm still(any probably always will be) taking contributions from people, as well as [most] requests as well. Like if you wanted to know the speed of a certain move, I could probably tell you in like a few minutes(being Online ties up the phoneline, so I can't STAY online like 24/7 or anything. You could also IM me(I have AIM) at FLAMEFRIER, or E-mail me at FLAMEFRIER@aol.com
Oh, I guess I could just give some of my Falco strats that I have recently found effective. I don't necessarily do this ALL the time, but I found this effective.
1) To catch an opponent off guard and ruin their "counter attack" while you're approaching, it'd be a good idea to Dash towards them, then short jump towards then, fire an aerial Blaster shot right before you land, then QUICKLY dash towards them and either dash attack them or grab+combo them.
2) when that gets predictable and you opponent starts trying slow-recovery-time moves to get through that approach, you could dash towards them and wavedash back and sticke them during their recovery time.
3) or you could jump or short jump(I usually do short jumps) with an aerial down A and a follow up attack while they bounce into the air(assuming their damage is high enough, which it usually is)
4) you could also, especially on long courses, short jump+fore your Blaster at a distance. If they try to jump over it then do a normal jump and fire 3 Blasters for when they try to jump over it. On slow jumping characters like Bowser, you can just constantly fire you Blaster on the ground, but this has startup lag and recovery time, so use this at a distance to rack up damage and/or annoy your foe
5) use Forward B to recover most of the time, since it's quicker, goes SLIGHTLY farther horizontally, and can spike/KO a foe that tries to jump off the coruse to spike you if they miss. Forward B can also catch a foe off guard, but don't do this much; only use it to make yourself unpredictable, as this move if fast but has very very low priority.
6) if they continue to spike you with good timing, then you can switch it up by using Up B, since it'd mess up their "flow of attacks" and you'd probably hit them while coming back and not die.
7) Grab (+ attack if you want) + down throw + tilt down A + follow up attack depending on their damage/how far they get knocked.
8) edge guard - Blaster to destroy their 2nd jump(aerial jump), then if needed stay right near the edge ON THE COURSE(don't jump off or you'll probably die) and aerial down A to spike them.
9) smashes are very useful, especially down and forward smash as they have a good mix of speed and power. Up smash IS useful at times too.
10) Team battle - have your teammate grab your enemy(and NOT throw them yet) and you go up tp grabbed enemy and Rapid A attack, and it's IMPOSSIBLE to escape.
11) 2 punches with A is a good startup attack for a mini-combo, as it's very fast.
12) when you grab a ledge and esp. when at high damage(100%+), then you can press back to let go of the ledge, then quickly double jump + aerial attack or Blaster before landing. This should suprose your opponent if you use it sparingly.
hope this helps some Falco players. I have more starts but these are some of the less-obvious ones, though many of them ARE obvious.
I am probably going to add a Miscellaneous section here, having data that can't exactly be categorized like for example:
"After using an attack many times, it gets weaker. After 10 hits, it can't get any weaker, and at that point it is only 55% of it's normal power. Also, the KO power is weakened as well, and this doesn't apply to most items, and certain moves like Peach's turnips"
^
.l
or something like that.
.
.
so... any suggestions for it, and I'm still(any probably always will be) taking contributions from people, as well as [most] requests as well. Like if you wanted to know the speed of a certain move, I could probably tell you in like a few minutes(being Online ties up the phoneline, so I can't STAY online like 24/7 or anything. You could also IM me(I have AIM) at FLAMEFRIER, or E-mail me at FLAMEFRIER@aol.com
Oh, I guess I could just give some of my Falco strats that I have recently found effective. I don't necessarily do this ALL the time, but I found this effective.
1) To catch an opponent off guard and ruin their "counter attack" while you're approaching, it'd be a good idea to Dash towards them, then short jump towards then, fire an aerial Blaster shot right before you land, then QUICKLY dash towards them and either dash attack them or grab+combo them.
2) when that gets predictable and you opponent starts trying slow-recovery-time moves to get through that approach, you could dash towards them and wavedash back and sticke them during their recovery time.
3) or you could jump or short jump(I usually do short jumps) with an aerial down A and a follow up attack while they bounce into the air(assuming their damage is high enough, which it usually is)
4) you could also, especially on long courses, short jump+fore your Blaster at a distance. If they try to jump over it then do a normal jump and fire 3 Blasters for when they try to jump over it. On slow jumping characters like Bowser, you can just constantly fire you Blaster on the ground, but this has startup lag and recovery time, so use this at a distance to rack up damage and/or annoy your foe
5) use Forward B to recover most of the time, since it's quicker, goes SLIGHTLY farther horizontally, and can spike/KO a foe that tries to jump off the coruse to spike you if they miss. Forward B can also catch a foe off guard, but don't do this much; only use it to make yourself unpredictable, as this move if fast but has very very low priority.
6) if they continue to spike you with good timing, then you can switch it up by using Up B, since it'd mess up their "flow of attacks" and you'd probably hit them while coming back and not die.
7) Grab (+ attack if you want) + down throw + tilt down A + follow up attack depending on their damage/how far they get knocked.
8) edge guard - Blaster to destroy their 2nd jump(aerial jump), then if needed stay right near the edge ON THE COURSE(don't jump off or you'll probably die) and aerial down A to spike them.
9) smashes are very useful, especially down and forward smash as they have a good mix of speed and power. Up smash IS useful at times too.
10) Team battle - have your teammate grab your enemy(and NOT throw them yet) and you go up tp grabbed enemy and Rapid A attack, and it's IMPOSSIBLE to escape.
11) 2 punches with A is a good startup attack for a mini-combo, as it's very fast.
12) when you grab a ledge and esp. when at high damage(100%+), then you can press back to let go of the ledge, then quickly double jump + aerial attack or Blaster before landing. This should suprose your opponent if you use it sparingly.
hope this helps some Falco players. I have more starts but these are some of the less-obvious ones, though many of them ARE obvious.
Mew2King
King of the Mews
tomorrow a new list, Item Attack [Starting] Speed(tested with Beam Sword, with A, tilt forward A, and dash A starting time attack speed).
No need to waste time testing smash attack speeds, since I already did that in the HR Bat attack speed list.
coming tomorrow probably
No need to waste time testing smash attack speeds, since I already did that in the HR Bat attack speed list.
coming tomorrow probably
Mew2King
King of the Mews
sorry, I wasn't allowed online yesterday, but I'm going to probably(If I'm allowed online) update it today, and maybe in this and next month I also MIGHT update this list with more lists and stuff, as well as take requests(ex. G-dorf attack starting speed, A-3 frames, tilt forward A-9, tilt down A - 10, down smash-19, forward smash - around 20-22 somewhere, up smash - around 21-23 somewhere, down B - 15, in air down B - 14, aerial down A - 16, Warlock punch - 70 frames or 1 and 1/6 seconds, tilt up A - 81 frames, or 1.35 seconds, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc., and this is just from the top of my head(I'm updating this in Study Skills at school, whihc is basically a free period), so just ask me little questions and stuff and there's a 99.9% chance I'll be able to answer your question).
Also, my Beam Sword/HR Bat/Star Rod(w/out stars counting)/Lip's Stick item A, tilt forward A and dash A starting speed attack speeds list, when I post it at home today, is ONLY for those 4 of the 6 clobbering items(besides the "different" clobbering items, lik ethe Hammer for instance) and the Parasol is SLIGHTLY faster than them(from 0 to 3 frames faster, depending on attack) and the Fan is from 1 to 3 times the normal attack speed. Also, Pikachu's A is the fastest, ESPECIALLY w/ the Fan, since it's INSTANTANEOUS, or 1 frame speed, unlike Pichu ONLY WITH THE FAN(since they're the same exact speed for EVERY other attack with any and every other clobbering item) whcih Pichu neutral A with the Fan is 2 frames instead of 1 like Pikachu with the Fan. Also, Mew2's dash A is ALWAYS 3 frames starting time no matter which of the 6 clobbering items he uses for it, and it does 18%, max.
NEW infinite hit Training Mode Combo - Hyrule Temple - section just a little bit to the left and down from Player 1's starting position(the little small platform which is right above the tunnel section where you can survive like 300%+ damage at with constant wall and ceiling(and floor) Techs), andway you can position Link on the right side of the small platform there(facing left into the wall) and have an opponent positioned right between Link and the wall. If you want here you can set the speed a little slower. Anyway, from then on you can just do constant Rapid A's. I believe you can get up to around 800+ hits of a combo and around 600%+ to the foe while just doing that. It works slightly longer I think for heavier characters, though sometimes it's harder for the big and chunky characters like Bowser to fit on the playform with Link/Young Link. I know it's not really an "infinite" hit combo but it's a pretty long and "cheap" one(if you can actually pull this off in a real fight that's be cool, but I don't think your opponent will be very happy about it if you do; just a warning.
Also, did you know that you can wall jump around up to 30 times(it varies slightly with the wall jumper, BESIDES Peach's Forward B wall jump) before you start going DOWN after that.
Also my website(well... homepage) has all this stuff and I think I'm going to run out of room here at smashboards.com so I guess I'll just have to continure it on my website from then on.
I need more humans to fight <cries>
anyway just as a warning don't REALLY go to www.vampiricus.com/bsod.html at the bottom of my webpage, it was just a joke webpage.
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I'm bored
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If anyone wants to see my MEGA MAZE I made and FINALLY finished(I've been working on it for years off and on, here and there) and it's just an aMAZ[E]ing to see.
If you want to see it, I can E-mail it to you if I have your E-mail address, or just contanct me over AIM (FLAMEFRIER)
I would just make a hyperlink to it or something but I don't know how to do that yet because I just got a new computer(AOL 9.0 >7.0 and Windows XP > 98) and it's better than the old one, but I don't get how it works fully yet(in "where is this" and "where is that" etc.) so I can send it if you just post you E-mail/Screenname here, or just PM me with it. It's almost as big as my Statistics List.
Also, my Beam Sword/HR Bat/Star Rod(w/out stars counting)/Lip's Stick item A, tilt forward A and dash A starting speed attack speeds list, when I post it at home today, is ONLY for those 4 of the 6 clobbering items(besides the "different" clobbering items, lik ethe Hammer for instance) and the Parasol is SLIGHTLY faster than them(from 0 to 3 frames faster, depending on attack) and the Fan is from 1 to 3 times the normal attack speed. Also, Pikachu's A is the fastest, ESPECIALLY w/ the Fan, since it's INSTANTANEOUS, or 1 frame speed, unlike Pichu ONLY WITH THE FAN(since they're the same exact speed for EVERY other attack with any and every other clobbering item) whcih Pichu neutral A with the Fan is 2 frames instead of 1 like Pikachu with the Fan. Also, Mew2's dash A is ALWAYS 3 frames starting time no matter which of the 6 clobbering items he uses for it, and it does 18%, max.
NEW infinite hit Training Mode Combo - Hyrule Temple - section just a little bit to the left and down from Player 1's starting position(the little small platform which is right above the tunnel section where you can survive like 300%+ damage at with constant wall and ceiling(and floor) Techs), andway you can position Link on the right side of the small platform there(facing left into the wall) and have an opponent positioned right between Link and the wall. If you want here you can set the speed a little slower. Anyway, from then on you can just do constant Rapid A's. I believe you can get up to around 800+ hits of a combo and around 600%+ to the foe while just doing that. It works slightly longer I think for heavier characters, though sometimes it's harder for the big and chunky characters like Bowser to fit on the playform with Link/Young Link. I know it's not really an "infinite" hit combo but it's a pretty long and "cheap" one(if you can actually pull this off in a real fight that's be cool, but I don't think your opponent will be very happy about it if you do; just a warning.
Also, did you know that you can wall jump around up to 30 times(it varies slightly with the wall jumper, BESIDES Peach's Forward B wall jump) before you start going DOWN after that.
Also my website(well... homepage) has all this stuff and I think I'm going to run out of room here at smashboards.com so I guess I'll just have to continure it on my website from then on.
I need more humans to fight <cries>
anyway just as a warning don't REALLY go to www.vampiricus.com/bsod.html at the bottom of my webpage, it was just a joke webpage.
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I'm bored
------------
If anyone wants to see my MEGA MAZE I made and FINALLY finished(I've been working on it for years off and on, here and there) and it's just an aMAZ[E]ing to see.
If you want to see it, I can E-mail it to you if I have your E-mail address, or just contanct me over AIM (FLAMEFRIER)
I would just make a hyperlink to it or something but I don't know how to do that yet because I just got a new computer(AOL 9.0 >7.0 and Windows XP > 98) and it's better than the old one, but I don't get how it works fully yet(in "where is this" and "where is that" etc.) so I can send it if you just post you E-mail/Screenname here, or just PM me with it. It's almost as big as my Statistics List.
Mew2King
King of the Mews
gahhh, outta room
oh well, that's what my website is for, as it doesn't run out of room(at least it didn't for me)
oh well, that's what my website is for, as it doesn't run out of room(at least it didn't for me)
James Cruise
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2003
- Messages
- 420
Wow...
i have msn, btw, i understand that marth is a top tier, but why sheik, marth can beat sheik, sheik is real quick, but not strong enough to knock the enemy back while marth does it with ease, im still wondering why bowser is a low tier, im only saying what i think, but i think bowser should be exactly in the middle because if you get hes smash attacks at the right time, especially the front+a one, they will go flying, but hes low because of speed, but hes power does make up for it if hes one of your best characters and you use him propably, luigi should be the highest tier, on a cpu fight he wins all of them, i done 1 lv9 luigi against 2 lv9 marths and luigi won, then i done 1 lv9 luigi against 3lv9 marths, it was sudden death and luigi lost, im also wondering are marths combos as fast as roys or faster, the front+b ones, also 1 thing i do hate is how they continuously tap the a button, its boring they hardly use the b button, doesnt everyone agree
Mew2King
King of the Mews
i have msn, btw, i understand that marth is a top tier, but why sheik, marth can beat sheik, sheik is real quick, but not strong enough to knock the enemy back while marth does it with ease, im still wondering why bowser is a low tier, im only saying what i think, but i think bowser should be exactly in the middle because if you get hes smash attacks at the right time, especially the front+a one, they will go flying, but hes low because of speed, but hes power does make up for it if hes one of your best characters and you use him propably, luigi should be the highest tier, on a cpu fight he wins all of them, i done 1 lv9 luigi against 2 lv9 marths and luigi won, then i done 1 lv9 luigi against 3lv9 marths, it was sudden death and luigi lost, im also wondering are marths combos as fast as roys or faster, the front+b ones, also 1 thing i do hate is how they continuously tap the a button, its boring they hardly use the b button, doesnt everyone agree
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there's A LOT wrong with that "paragraph"
1) Speed is the single most important factor in a character's tier/rating
2) Power is nothing without Speed
3) "marth can beat sheik" - well duh, and same for vice-versa
4) the middle tier Bowser thing I'm taking as a joke, being the slowest character in the game, the worst dodger/roller with Mr. Game & Watch, and a HUGE target, and suprisingly fairly bad range for all that
5) luigi is definately high tier, but lack of good recovery(w/out great luck in forward B) and easiness-to-edge-guard brings him down a lot.
6) Do NOT, NOT, NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT judge characters by COMPUTERS. They suck with Marth and Sheik, and the best 2 computers on lv. 9 are Luigi(<-for Time mode) and Ganondorf.
7) bad grammer
8) no it's not boring using combos.
Falco fun combo, esp. when near "ceiling" of stage. Reflector+jump+Reflector+jump+Reflector, (you can jump out of a Reflector for those of you that don't know, and have almost no lag time)
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V
stop acting like a n00b, and I REALLY hope that that's a joke about the grammer thing. I'm not gonna waste my time arguing with you anymore, and almost everyone knows that for Pros, speed (and priority, like with swords which can't be hurt because they're not part of anyone's body) is the SINGLE most important factor in how good a character is. Attack speed is MUCH more important than running speed also. There's more to it than that, but that's the most important stuff if it had to be quickly summed up.
Also, I don't do tiers, I make statistics lists to settle ridiculous arguments about stupid FAQ's like "Fox falls faster than Falco" (Fox->fastest falling ACCELERATION, or starts his fall at top speed the quickest, while Falco has a slightly higher top speed when falling,) and stuff like that. Also I do it because I'm bored, and to help people and stuff with this stats stuff.
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there's A LOT wrong with that "paragraph"
1) Speed is the single most important factor in a character's tier/rating
2) Power is nothing without Speed
3) "marth can beat sheik" - well duh, and same for vice-versa
4) the middle tier Bowser thing I'm taking as a joke, being the slowest character in the game, the worst dodger/roller with Mr. Game & Watch, and a HUGE target, and suprisingly fairly bad range for all that
5) luigi is definately high tier, but lack of good recovery(w/out great luck in forward B) and easiness-to-edge-guard brings him down a lot.
6) Do NOT, NOT, NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT judge characters by COMPUTERS. They suck with Marth and Sheik, and the best 2 computers on lv. 9 are Luigi(<-for Time mode) and Ganondorf.
7) bad grammer
8) no it's not boring using combos.
Falco fun combo, esp. when near "ceiling" of stage. Reflector+jump+Reflector+jump+Reflector, (you can jump out of a Reflector for those of you that don't know, and have almost no lag time)
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stop acting like a n00b, and I REALLY hope that that's a joke about the grammer thing. I'm not gonna waste my time arguing with you anymore, and almost everyone knows that for Pros, speed (and priority, like with swords which can't be hurt because they're not part of anyone's body) is the SINGLE most important factor in how good a character is. Attack speed is MUCH more important than running speed also. There's more to it than that, but that's the most important stuff if it had to be quickly summed up.
Also, I don't do tiers, I make statistics lists to settle ridiculous arguments about stupid FAQ's like "Fox falls faster than Falco" (Fox->fastest falling ACCELERATION, or starts his fall at top speed the quickest, while Falco has a slightly higher top speed when falling,) and stuff like that. Also I do it because I'm bored, and to help people and stuff with this stats stuff.
and for some characters its not speed they need, they can have average whick is better,you have worse grammar btw, i so if it is speed that really matters, why isnt c.falcon a top tier, he has the most speed, but fox and falco have the fastest attack speed + fox is faster then sheik
Mew2King
King of the Mews
Samus's Homing Missile - 111
Samus's Smash Missile - 76
Samus/Mewtwo's - 69
Fox's Blaster - 34
Falco's Blaster - 99
Dr. Mario/Mario's Fireball - 75
Link/Young Link's Bombs - 301
PK Fire - 20***
Luigi's Fireball - 50
Sheik's Needles - 30
Pichu/Pikachu's Thunder Jolt - 99
Ice Climbers's(1) Ice Shot - 61
Ness's PK Thunder - 119
Link's Arrows - 60*******
Young Link's Arrows - 55****
***(NESS-B)on flat ground, it's only 19 frames lasting time
*****(YOUNG LINK-B)on flat ground, it's only 23 frames long
*******(LINK-B)on flat ground, it's only 29 frames long
PROJECTILE LASTING TIME(in frames)
explain more later, Dragonball starts, so bye
Samus's Smash Missile - 76
Samus/Mewtwo's - 69
Fox's Blaster - 34
Falco's Blaster - 99
Dr. Mario/Mario's Fireball - 75
Link/Young Link's Bombs - 301
PK Fire - 20***
Luigi's Fireball - 50
Sheik's Needles - 30
Pichu/Pikachu's Thunder Jolt - 99
Ice Climbers's(1) Ice Shot - 61
Ness's PK Thunder - 119
Link's Arrows - 60*******
Young Link's Arrows - 55****
***(NESS-B)on flat ground, it's only 19 frames lasting time
*****(YOUNG LINK-B)on flat ground, it's only 23 frames long
*******(LINK-B)on flat ground, it's only 29 frames long
PROJECTILE LASTING TIME(in frames)
explain more later, Dragonball starts, so bye
Mew2King
King of the Mews
---Ledge Attack Horizontal Range (0-99%)
1) Bowser
2) DK
3) Falco
4) Fox
5) Ganondorf
6) Captain Falcon
7) Yoshi
8) Mewtwo
9) Sheik
10) Zelda
11) Kirby
12) Samus
13) Link
14) Luigi
15) Marth
16) Jigglypuff
17) Roy
18-19) Dr. Mario / Mario
20) Ice Climbers
21) Young Link
22-24) Ness / Peach / Pikachu
25) Mr. Game & Watch
26) Pichu
Note: I didn't update this to my homepage yet
1) Bowser
2) DK
3) Falco
4) Fox
5) Ganondorf
6) Captain Falcon
7) Yoshi
8) Mewtwo
9) Sheik
10) Zelda
11) Kirby
12) Samus
13) Link
14) Luigi
15) Marth
16) Jigglypuff
17) Roy
18-19) Dr. Mario / Mario
20) Ice Climbers
21) Young Link
22-24) Ness / Peach / Pikachu
25) Mr. Game & Watch
26) Pichu
Note: I didn't update this to my homepage yet
Mew2King
King of the Mews
http://hometown.aol.com/flamefrier/myhomepage/profile.html
try going there now
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anyway, I don't think I put the new list in there yet that I posted here just a message or two back I believe, but the other stuff and more video game stuff is there at my website/homepage.
try going there now
------------
anyway, I don't think I put the new list in there yet that I posted here just a message or two back I believe, but the other stuff and more video game stuff is there at my website/homepage.
_Star_Fox_101
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2002
- Messages
- 146
A Request
Mew2King, can you please make a list of every character's item grab range? Im talking about grabing an item that is thrown at you either on the ground or in the air. Would this list be the same as the grab(grabing another character) list that you made? Also, can you tell me the lag time on ness's down-b(absorb) attack as opposed to the lag time on fox/falco's down-b(reflector) attack.
Thanks
Mew2King, can you please make a list of every character's item grab range? Im talking about grabing an item that is thrown at you either on the ground or in the air. Would this list be the same as the grab(grabing another character) list that you made? Also, can you tell me the lag time on ness's down-b(absorb) attack as opposed to the lag time on fox/falco's down-b(reflector) attack.
Thanks
Mew2King
King of the Mews
did you read the grabbing range list that "I" made (someone else did, as I mentioned). It's slightly inaccurate since it's IMPOSSIBLE to get a REAL accurate list since the characters move back and forth and are shaped differently (example: yoshi and bowser's head hangs forward, so taller characters with higher grabs can grab him easier, as opponed to the smaller characters who can be grabbed easier be lower grabs) It's impossible to make a 100% list for THAT, BUT it IS useful for those curious.
Ex. Falco probably has as much if not more range in his grab then Falco does, but because of the fact that when stationary, Falco turns his body, putting his left hand (well... wing) closer to the opponent, so he can get grabbed easier.
I have another example of something else: this time about short jumping. When trying to jump on a platform, Fox goes on higher platforms because of his "flip" in his jump, which Falco does not have. This puts hte lowest part of Fox's body higher than the lowest part of Falco's body, so he can short jump onto higher platforms. HOWEVER, Falco's short jump is actually higher than Fox's, and can be proven by QUICKLY short jump+aerial A attacking, as Falco is a bit higher than Fox. This is exactly why I made TWO lists for 1st jump jumping height, because the Bunny Hood makes you go higher, and Tiny melee as well slightly increases the percentage of increase on the jumping height in proportion to the character's size.
I can prove, that in one way, Sheik jumps higher than Marth in a single jump. All you have to do is go to the upper left corner of Hyrule Temple, and go to the middle of that hanging over platform. There, there is a little platform above the middle of the ledge. Do a normal jump as Marth, and you'll barely miss jumping onto the platform. Now, do the same thing as Sheik. Because of Sheik's flip in her jump, she goes higher than Marth onto platforms. Try Falco's back jump as opposed to his normal jump, and because of his backflip he goes "higher" than a normal jump. Try this with Mewtwo and Bowser's back jump, on the lower of the two platforms in the middle of Ness's Onett course. Also, try Mewtwo and Bowser's back jump as opposed to their normal jump from that little tiny platform in Hyrule Temple (upper left corner of "cave of teching immortality") and you'll see how they jump onto it ONLY with their back jump and not their normal jump.
Therefore, to do my short jump test, I'll need to have some people vote how I should do it (with the Bunny Hood and maybe also with Tiny Mushrooms/Tiny Melee OR just normal FORWARD[and only forward] short jumps while jumping ON PLATFORMS.
This shows how testing this stuff is not just a quick pilation of stat junk, as I spend on average a few days on some, while others (like "ledge attack A attack power") only takes an hour or so, even with rechecking. I am VERY precise when testing stuff, like Marth Vs. Kirby crate carrying walking speed, I had those two characters walking with barrels/crates right next to the very edge of a platform[like Final D.] to see if they move even the slightest bit, and I held it for at LEAST 10 minutes just having them see who'd move, and they were both in the EXACT same spot after the 10+ minutes were up. When I say EXACT I mean the same EXACT.
Also, back to grabbing range, the best characters to test this stuff would probably be testing a Big character(Super Mushroom and/or Giant Melee) on a small character that's "flat" in front, like Zelda for instance(Poison Mushroom and/or Tiny Melee), because the proportions would be greatly in a very accurate testing advantage. Jumping and stuff could help too. If you could grab crates (flat items) like you do with the characters normal grabs, then it's be perfect for testing, but you can't (sadly). Also, the crate would have to grab another character BACK, but none of thois could possible EVER be accurate because no matter what you do, the characters move back and forth and 100% accurate tests for grabbing range is NOT possible, but close approximations ARE possible.
Also, you'd have to add that into grabbing items being thrown at characters at a standing position, but since they move back and forth it's impossible to get perfect results.
HOWEVER, I can test grabbing items from the ground (Bowser has the most, and smaller characters generally have less item grabbing range, but this I can test accurately, so I might work on it sometime when I'm bored, as I'm never really doing anything except playing nintendo by myself or watching TV or something, besides school of course, and.... eating and sleeping... and that's about as exciting as my life gets. Too bad noone at MY school cares about it even the slightest bit, except a few [VERY VERY VERY few] people)
-------------------------------
Right now I can tell you that the Reflector starts instantaneously (1 frame) and that the Psy Magnet starts at frame 10 [samus's forward smash speed], and the rest I can easily test.... when I get my other controller to work. The Wavebird controller seems to never break, while those ultra-crappy MadCatz controllers break right away [just saying, MadCatz SUCKS with making controllers so don't trust them as they broke like withi a week of normal use, and I had like 3 of them too]. . The normal G-cube controllers seem to break sometimes, as all of mine broke, but not QUITE as easily as those MazCatz ones. Still, the tests I can't do until x-mas probably when I get another controller
Ex. Falco probably has as much if not more range in his grab then Falco does, but because of the fact that when stationary, Falco turns his body, putting his left hand (well... wing) closer to the opponent, so he can get grabbed easier.
I have another example of something else: this time about short jumping. When trying to jump on a platform, Fox goes on higher platforms because of his "flip" in his jump, which Falco does not have. This puts hte lowest part of Fox's body higher than the lowest part of Falco's body, so he can short jump onto higher platforms. HOWEVER, Falco's short jump is actually higher than Fox's, and can be proven by QUICKLY short jump+aerial A attacking, as Falco is a bit higher than Fox. This is exactly why I made TWO lists for 1st jump jumping height, because the Bunny Hood makes you go higher, and Tiny melee as well slightly increases the percentage of increase on the jumping height in proportion to the character's size.
I can prove, that in one way, Sheik jumps higher than Marth in a single jump. All you have to do is go to the upper left corner of Hyrule Temple, and go to the middle of that hanging over platform. There, there is a little platform above the middle of the ledge. Do a normal jump as Marth, and you'll barely miss jumping onto the platform. Now, do the same thing as Sheik. Because of Sheik's flip in her jump, she goes higher than Marth onto platforms. Try Falco's back jump as opposed to his normal jump, and because of his backflip he goes "higher" than a normal jump. Try this with Mewtwo and Bowser's back jump, on the lower of the two platforms in the middle of Ness's Onett course. Also, try Mewtwo and Bowser's back jump as opposed to their normal jump from that little tiny platform in Hyrule Temple (upper left corner of "cave of teching immortality") and you'll see how they jump onto it ONLY with their back jump and not their normal jump.
Therefore, to do my short jump test, I'll need to have some people vote how I should do it (with the Bunny Hood and maybe also with Tiny Mushrooms/Tiny Melee OR just normal FORWARD[and only forward] short jumps while jumping ON PLATFORMS.
This shows how testing this stuff is not just a quick pilation of stat junk, as I spend on average a few days on some, while others (like "ledge attack A attack power") only takes an hour or so, even with rechecking. I am VERY precise when testing stuff, like Marth Vs. Kirby crate carrying walking speed, I had those two characters walking with barrels/crates right next to the very edge of a platform[like Final D.] to see if they move even the slightest bit, and I held it for at LEAST 10 minutes just having them see who'd move, and they were both in the EXACT same spot after the 10+ minutes were up. When I say EXACT I mean the same EXACT.
Also, back to grabbing range, the best characters to test this stuff would probably be testing a Big character(Super Mushroom and/or Giant Melee) on a small character that's "flat" in front, like Zelda for instance(Poison Mushroom and/or Tiny Melee), because the proportions would be greatly in a very accurate testing advantage. Jumping and stuff could help too. If you could grab crates (flat items) like you do with the characters normal grabs, then it's be perfect for testing, but you can't (sadly). Also, the crate would have to grab another character BACK, but none of thois could possible EVER be accurate because no matter what you do, the characters move back and forth and 100% accurate tests for grabbing range is NOT possible, but close approximations ARE possible.
Also, you'd have to add that into grabbing items being thrown at characters at a standing position, but since they move back and forth it's impossible to get perfect results.
HOWEVER, I can test grabbing items from the ground (Bowser has the most, and smaller characters generally have less item grabbing range, but this I can test accurately, so I might work on it sometime when I'm bored, as I'm never really doing anything except playing nintendo by myself or watching TV or something, besides school of course, and.... eating and sleeping... and that's about as exciting as my life gets. Too bad noone at MY school cares about it even the slightest bit, except a few [VERY VERY VERY few] people)
-------------------------------
Right now I can tell you that the Reflector starts instantaneously (1 frame) and that the Psy Magnet starts at frame 10 [samus's forward smash speed], and the rest I can easily test.... when I get my other controller to work. The Wavebird controller seems to never break, while those ultra-crappy MadCatz controllers break right away [just saying, MadCatz SUCKS with making controllers so don't trust them as they broke like withi a week of normal use, and I had like 3 of them too].
. The normal G-cube controllers seem to break sometimes, as all of mine broke, but not QUITE as easily as those MazCatz ones. Still, the tests I can't do until x-mas probably when I get another controller_Star_Fox_101
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2002
- Messages
- 146
Sorry to bother you again but can you tell me what frame marth's counter starts on? I think its 1 frame like fox's reflector but im not shure.
And I have a question regaurding what you said about "After using an attack many times, it gets weaker."
To get rid of the staleness of a move could u just use another move 10 times then that move would have the staleness and the other one would be fresh?
Thanks
And I have a question regaurding what you said about "After using an attack many times, it gets weaker."
To get rid of the staleness of a move could u just use another move 10 times then that move would have the staleness and the other one would be fresh?
Thanks
Mew2King
King of the Mews
Marth's Counter
LASTS frames 5-29 (25 frames total it is in effect)
TOTAL TIME is 59 frames
so it lasts 25/59 frames
-------------------------------------
Roy's Counter
LASTS frames 8-20 (13 frames total it is in effect)
TOTAL TIME is 59 frames
so it lasts 13/59 frames
-------------------------------------
I'll have to get back to that last one (I don't bother playing this game anymore since I have noone to play against, )
BUT, according to what I remember I think it's like 1/2 restored or something, like if you use Flare Blade 10 times it will only do 27%(or 27.5%) but if you then use...say, his forward smash 10 times then the forward smash will get weaker (20% down to 11% I think) and the Flare Blade will (I THINK) will get a power somewhere between 27% and 50%; like 40% or something, IDK. I haven't played this game for a while so I don't recall everything (except the frames, which I remember like 99.9% of) so you can do that very exact test if you want then check what power it has.
Remember, the amount it loses each time will not be as great (in other words, using Flare Blade 2 times will do 50% then only 45%, a 5% decrease. Between say, the 7th and 8th times you used Flare Blade, the decrease will be around 1, maybe 2% of a decrease, but does NOT decrease after 10 uses)
LASTS frames 5-29 (25 frames total it is in effect)
TOTAL TIME is 59 frames
so it lasts 25/59 frames
-------------------------------------
Roy's Counter
LASTS frames 8-20 (13 frames total it is in effect)
TOTAL TIME is 59 frames
so it lasts 13/59 frames
-------------------------------------
I'll have to get back to that last one (I don't bother playing this game anymore since I have noone to play against,
)BUT, according to what I remember I think it's like 1/2 restored or something, like if you use Flare Blade 10 times it will only do 27%(or 27.5%) but if you then use...say, his forward smash 10 times then the forward smash will get weaker (20% down to 11% I think) and the Flare Blade will (I THINK) will get a power somewhere between 27% and 50%; like 40% or something, IDK. I haven't played this game for a while so I don't recall everything (except the frames, which I remember like 99.9% of) so you can do that very exact test if you want then check what power it has.
Remember, the amount it loses each time will not be as great (in other words, using Flare Blade 2 times will do 50% then only 45%, a 5% decrease. Between say, the 7th and 8th times you used Flare Blade, the decrease will be around 1, maybe 2% of a decrease, but does NOT decrease after 10 uses)
soroush123
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2004
- Messages
- 1,421
And there is MORE on his site. WOW!
O_O
O_OKadian
Smash Apprentice
May I use this, please?
Mew2King, your lists and records are absolutely brilliant!
I’ve tried doing some of that stuff before, so I know how much time and effort you put in, but you’ve attained an inconceivable level of depth and accuracy. I tip my hat off to you.
Since this list is so great, I’m asking permission from you to be able to print this off and show it to my friends (credits included). I see the potential for much of this stuff to improve their smash game.
Mew2King, your lists and records are absolutely brilliant!
I’ve tried doing some of that stuff before, so I know how much time and effort you put in, but you’ve attained an inconceivable level of depth and accuracy. I tip my hat off to you.Since this list is so great, I’m asking permission from you to be able to print this off and show it to my friends (credits included). I see the potential for much of this stuff to improve their smash game.
Michael Miranda
Smash Rookie
****, i didn't think this would take me so long to read!
very nice job.
very nice job.
Mr.E
Smash Lord
Shameless plug while we're talking about improving our games.
Krisbot
Smash Cadet
I never knew about that priority rule, that is crazy. Now I understand why I can override attacks sometimes and other times I get pwned. Thx for the info Mew2King.
DestroTheSeige
Smash Rookie
Wow!
that is a very indepth list of shtuff that can be quite usefull in the right hands. unfortunatly, i dont have those hands. yet....
that is a very indepth list of shtuff that can be quite usefull in the right hands. unfortunatly, i dont have those hands. yet....
Mario's Cape
Smash Apprentice
Impressive THEORY on the frames and all the othe information. I give this a way two thumbs up!!!!!!!!!!! It explains everything thing in detail for all the adnvance players!!!!!! I rate this 5 stars!!! The research is actually quite useful to advance players who need the winning edge against other tougher opponents.
quantumphotonkid
Smash Cadet
WOW, that's increadible.
Also, any fraction using rational numbers (such as you're frames inv./total frames) can be represented by either a terminating or repeating decimal, so it's not that much of a coincidence.
That must have taken forever.
Also, any fraction using rational numbers (such as you're frames inv./total frames) can be represented by either a terminating or repeating decimal, so it's not that much of a coincidence.
That must have taken forever.
CaliburChamp
Smash Master
Do you have stats of all the characters running speed. I know C. Falcon is the fastest, and I didnt see anything from the first page about this unless I mislooked it. Just want a list of how fast the characters are.
yeah, it's somewhere in there... he has stats for running, walking, acceleration, stopping, turning... just gotta find it.
what i'd recomend is just to make a random text file and c/p what you want into that as you get to it so you can access it quicker in your own spare time.
what i'd recomend is just to make a random text file and c/p what you want into that as you get to it so you can access it quicker in your own spare time.
dammit... son of a *****... i forgot the bug in the vbulletin code that happens anytime a mod posts in stickied things.... my bad, my bad...
Mr.E
Smash Lord
*ahem*
Oh, well it seems I get to lay first claim to the THIRD PAGE.
Oh, well it seems I get to lay first claim to the THIRD PAGE.