ssbm: bias and help and stuff

[King Funk]

Hey Atomi, do you have MSN/Skype/AIM/Facebook/something else? I would love to help you out with anything and everything. I know a ton about Melee, smash in general, the community, the tournaments, the history behind it, and I also happen to play a lot of SSF4 myself right now. You can ask me anything you want. Just send me a PM.

 

[clowsui]

I summon the power.

Cactuar.

 

[King Funk]

I summon the power.

Cactuar.

Ruun... Ruuuuun!

 

[clowsui]

Cactuar is not X-Factor L3 Phoenix

though he is pretty hot

 

[MattDotZeb]

I summon the power.

Cactuar.

This man also asked for frame data.

I request the power of the almighty.

MAGUS! Come forth!

 

[kd-]

This post is really cool and I hope others come to bridge the gap as well, whether it's actually playing SSBM or just giving us that nod as we cross paths.

Unlock the characters and the stages as you can - this can get pretty tedious. If there's someone in your area that can give you data as well as advice in person, this would probably be the best.

Pick a character that you like the feel and look of - some characters are floaty, others slide a bit on the ground, some are heavy, some move fast. Movement in this game is really important, so if you like how your character moves odds are you will have more fun. Choose a character and play through the Single-Player Classic or Adventure modes for a little bit.

Take the time to move and attack with your character, and see what the character's attacks are. Movement - Walking, dashing (running), jump, double jump
Attacks - Jab, forward-tilt, down-tilt, up-tilt, forward smash, up-smash, down-smash
Specials - Neutral B, forward/side B, up B, down B

PLAY SOMEONE. Talk to them, advice in person while playing is usually the best way to learn.

Lastly of course, have fun ^_-

 

[Beat!]

Welcome to the community! Super props to you for giving the game a legitimate shot, despite having such negative preconceptions. I'm not too sure I could've done the same in a similar situation.

Really interested in seeing where this leads.

 

[KrIsP!]

Honestly, I think your best bet is to spend up to a week playing the single player modes and trying to unlock all of the characters. I think trying to jump head first into competitive SSBM without any sort of foundation in the game's basic mechanics would be overwhelming, and reckless perhaps. It'll be MUCH easier to learn the advanced techniques if you've at least seen the basic traits and moves of the cast and explore the game on your own for a little bit.

It has been said that melee's strongest point in becoming competitive is the fact that its accessible. We all learned the simple stuff by playing it, there were no combos to learn but we made up our own and knew every move our character could do coming into the scene.

Learning to short hop is important, learning what aerials you have at your disposal and how each of them hits is more important. Its a running before walking thing and I agree with Nintendude that a week of screwing around goes a long way.

Edit: Regarding bias, since this guy apparently didn't know there was a competitive scene then I recommend this...because I love watching it over and over again. Can't wait for melee documentary obviously. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFqd...KxjO4kWbSw&index=15&feature=plcp&noredirect=1

 

[Grokbu]

Competitively, I come from a more traditional fighting game background as well. The first game I played a lot was SSBM, sure, but that was still back in my mashing days. It was when I started playing 3S that I stopped mashing and started learning the importance of using more than HP/HK moves and learning the importance of mindgames, started learning combos, learning what a meaty, link, kara cancelling is etc etc.
So now in Melee, I have not started playing other people yet, but this weekend I did start learning basics and advanced stuff in Melee, so you could really say that I'm new to the game.

That was basically an intro from me, heh. What I want to say, though, is something you might understand already, as this is the case if you go between more traditional fighting games as well.
Basically, if you find that something is annoying because it doesn't work as in your old game, don't be hung up on that simple fact. You might have to take a really different approach to it than what you're used to.

Depending on how you see this, it might sound as a rant I guess? However, that's not how it was meant. Having this in mind can really help you discover new games that you might like more than your previous ones (or not, who knows?) and it can help you appreciate games more.

EDIT: Oh, and something you might not realize until you actually play the game, is just how good execution high level Melee players have.

 

[Stevo]

this thread is pretty good.

I'm going to use this as a reference for a couple people that I am trying to get into melee

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

Another good idea might be trying to get someone else from your community to start playing Melee with you =) It's more fun not to get destroyed constantly in the beginning by people who have played for years, although it's good for improving.

 

[-Philip Coast Philip-]

yoo

thanks for your post and your effort, and good luck with things. some thoughts:

-this game may be frustrating. however, it has different expectations than almost any other game, in how much control you may have, and how a fight may play out. i think figuring out a way to categorize its fundamental mechanics ('damage', movement, recovery, the hit system) will help a lot with understanding the game. getting down the general abilities of any character might be the first start there.

-those video guides pointed out earlier can really help you out (hey, accelerated learning process!). the game's 'how to play' video also covers all the basics of any given characters' abilities. after that, i'd agree, character boards and videos to watch will really help with the visual inspiration and learning of it all.

-practicing against computers, at any level, will help you understand a lot about the game. one of our best players (mew2king) did almost exclusively this for a long time. as well, combo videos will, of course, really showcase and highlight a character's abilities, and will help with expanding a character's limitations.

well hope that helps, good luck! you have any character you're already interested in? if not here's a highly simplified character rundown to get you started:

fast, lots of combos, hard to control: fox/falco/falcon
good range, easier to use, lots of combos: marth/sheik
odd, floaty characters with very unique abilities: jiggs/peach/samus/ice climbers
slightly slower, more 'brute' char. with good range, combos, power: ganon
good all-arounds: doc/mario/link/young link/pikachu
donkey kong: he's just special.
terribad/not good for learning the game: everyone else.

 

[Strong Badam]

I wish DK had power.

 

[R2_GP]

when training against cpu's Don't forget to Turn items off and set the 4 stock typed matches, :D

 

[-Philip Coast Philip-]

I wish DK had power.

i was going to put him in the category above that, thinking of mexican/bum and uair forward+b combos... but now that i think about it...
/changed

 

[Nintendude]

when training against cpu's Don't forget to Turn items off and set the 4 stock typed matches, :D

Why would someone train against CPUs with stock count set to 4? Make it an unlimited time match and quit out when you want to switch it up.

 

[Stevo]

plus, you unlock mewtwo easier that way! lol

 

[SonuvaBeach]

Atomi, you impress me.

If you are serious about your endeavor you should know a couple things,

1. Melee is difficult. It has been around 11 years. In 5 months with a good amount of practice you can be better than 90% of the community in 2007, yet worse than 90% now. But, it is very rewarding.
2. Your best way to learn is to find someone close to you who will help teach you. There is no good, or most importantly, enjoyable, way to learn other than with real people.

Where are you from? As you've noticed, Melee is an active community and there likely is melee players in your area. The first step is to seek one of them out and have them go through the basics of the game with you and give you some things to work on. There really is a lot to take in and process when you start.

The terms you will see that will confuse you include:
L-Cancel (lag cancel) - pressing the Left or Right Trigger, or the Z button before you hit the ground to cancel the lag of an aerial. This allows you to move around much quicker.

Wavedash - When in the air you can press the L/R triggers to dodge. If you dodge into the ground you slide. To wavedash you jump with UP on the stick or X/Y and then immediately press the L/R trigger and dodge diagonally into the ground. This allows you to slide on the ground and "wavedash"

Short Hop - Pressing up on the joystick, or x/y very quickly to do the lowest jump, or a "short hop." Mess around with different jumping heights, based on how long you hold the jump button for. The highest jump is called a Full Hop

Fast Fall - Pressing down at the peak of your jump allows you to fall to the ground much quicker. This can be used for any height jump.

Those are all critical things to learn and master to play high level melee. Good luck Atomi. If you have any questions I'd love to be of help as well. Or if you are in the Michigan area, shoot me a PM!

 

[Dan Salvato]

Mess around with different jumping heights, based on how long you hold the jump button for. The highest jump is called a Full Hop

There are only two jump heights.

 

[KrIsP!]

There are only two jump heights.

Obviously you've never heard of puff's jump decay

 

[Bones0]

Obviously you've never heard of puff's jump decay

Or completed Young Link's BtT.

 

[Sacredtwin11]

Or doing an aerial the first frame you can of your jump.

 

[Deleted member]

ahh yes, because countering <general statement> with <incredibly trivial counterexample> is worth a lot to this community.

 

[SonuvaBeach]

Thanks for the correction, I'm sure it's helpful to him. >_<

I don't pretend to know all about melee. I didn't realize there was two jump heights despite having played for 4 years. Just trying to give the most vital information in the quickest fashion to a new player. This game is extremely overwhelming when you first start. Going back and forth over trivial information doesn't help that.

 

[nube]

What's the big deal. Interpreted properly, both Tremor and IE's statements are correct; they just need a qualifier.

From the ground:
-each character can jump different heights depending on how long the jump button is pressed.
-there are only two different types of jumps; we call the high(est) jump a "Full Hop" and the short(est) jump a "Short Hop".
-to achieve either a Full Hop or Short Hop, hold a jump button for either longer, or equal/shorter, respectively, than the threshold value of 3-7 frames (which depends on the character).

 

[Dan Salvato]

Sorry, I didn't mean to come off as a **** or anything, lol. The conciseness of my reply may have given the wrong impression. I do agree there's no sense arguing over trivial facts, and I thank nube for providing a more detailed post on jumping.

 

[R2_GP]

Why would someone train against CPUs with stock count set to 4? Make it an unlimited time match and quit out when you want to switch it up.

just to get used to actual matches

 

[Violence]

A few differences from traditional fighters:

Because of the existence of DI, practicing combos on dummies is completely unreliable and not indicative of how things will go in a real match. You can practice movement and execution by yourself, but beyond that, you're going to need some people to play with.

Smash is a very social game, it's impossible to get better beyond a certain point without a human opponent.

Where do you live right now? Chances are, there's a local smash community that you can get to know and build experience with.

 

[KrIsP!]

Sorry, I didn't mean to come off as a **** or anything, lol. The conciseness of my reply may have given the wrong impression. I do agree there's no sense arguing over trivial facts, and I thank nube for providing a more detailed post on jumping.

I took it as a sarcastic, smart *** remark and followed it up with my own. As did bones and the other guy. I think people took that too seriously. Anyways, the guy has some links now and its a lot of information to swallow as is, give him some space and wait for him to ask a question or something.

And I have got to say this, but I find it funny how much attention everyone's given to a guy who hasn't played the game yet when we usually just point newbies in the right direction and lock the thread. I get it, we want to get the word of smash spread but if anything I think this is a good time to reevaluate the info here. He said it himself, he had heard l-cancel 10 times but still didn't know what to do. The stickies here don't exactly have the best information, you have to look else where which causes people to ask and be given the same links redundantly. Can the mods look into this or someone who's been here awhile look into making an updated guide? Is the official everything guide even stickied?

 

[Atomi]

hey everyone. i played for the first time last night. i was doing the unlock everything tricks in this thread for a couple of hours. it was pretty fun, and easy to get down once i knew what i was doing

at least i know the basic commands now

thank you again to everyone for trying to help. im based out of Indiana, so if there is anyone near Indianapolis that would be pretty sweet. no online play is pretty dumb, but driving is pretty easy too

btw i can record, so ty to the people who offered to look at my games

 

[DrinkingFood]

no online play is pretty dumb, but driving is pretty easy too

Well, pretty much nothing had online play in 2001, but we smashers deal with it anyways There's actually a hacking project going on to create high quality online play for people who use emulators to play Melee.

 

[Violence]

Indiana Social Thread

You can look for people to play with in there.

 

[Bones0]

There have been developments in online Melee very recently, but it has fairly high computer demands and isn't exactly stable. Plus it has lag so you're better off just playing in person.

 

[CableCho57]

not having online is what I think makes melee so great

-makes the game more social instead of sitting alone in your room
-appreciate the moments you do play because playing with anyone/anytime isn't available 24/7
-different regions have different styles/inside jokes
-more hyped rivalries/trashtalk because of lack of opportunities to play with people from different regions

 

[DrinkingFood]

That ONE thing?

 

[Naughty Pixel]

When I had just started out I think this was still stickied, I went back to this page so many times that when ever I start typing "smash" in my browser it's still the first link that shows up

smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=42749

This thread contains a list of most if not all of the cool and useful things that you can do in this game. As well as the terms frequently used on these boards to discuss things like OOS and DJC (out of shield and double jump cancel)

 

[Atomi]

a lot of the links in that dont work lol

so a friend let me copy his old memory card with everything unlocked.

he doesnt play anymore tho :/

 

[Melomaniacal]

Definitely watch the Advanced How to Play videos.
Those are what really got me into competitive smash, and they are a fantastic intro to the advanced techniques.

 

[Bones0]

All you need to worry about is the Advanced How to Play videos (once you get the hang of basic controls of course; idk how long that would take since I've been playing casually since 64...).

 

[Ryobeat]

\

And I have got to say this, but I find it funny how much attention everyone's given to a guy who hasn't played the game yet when we usually just point newbies in the right direction and lock the thread. I get it, we want to get the word of smash spread but if anything I think this is a good time to reevaluate the info here. He said it himself, he had heard l-cancel 10 times but still didn't know what to do. The stickies here don't exactly have the best information, you have to look else where which causes people to ask and be given the same links redundantly. Can the mods look into this or someone who's been here awhile look into making an updated guide? Is the official everything guide even stickied?

I just want to make sure this doesn't become ignored. I think we need to help newbies get started just like this thread is doing, but with everyone. Because honestly, i dont know about other areas, but some areas around where i am arent that welcoming. They are just in their group of friends and smashers. And not purposely, newer players can feel alone, so they leave. Out of the 5 people that I entered the competitive scene with(Last Summer), only 2 stayed. (Me and my friend) Not even because we got treated better, I pushed myself really hard to break in. Overall, I want us to try and get new players in, to stay. But I guess thats what EVO will help us do.