SSB4 Rumours and Leaks

[Bassoonist]

I don't understand, I don't really care if Toon Link is in, but I don't see HOW you can question Lucario's return. Toon Link is clone, that is why people targeted him.

Well, if you ask me, there are two different kinds of clones, ones added as mere filler to the roster, like Dr. Mario and Pichu in Melee, and then there are the ones that actually deserved it, but just weren't given individual movesets, like Toon Link.

Being a 'clone' or not doesn't seem to have much of an impact on who returns, aside from those that were obvious filler. For you see, Falco returned in Brawl, and is likely to return again.

Funny you bring up Lucario, defending him because he wasn't a clone, because he replaced a character that had an original moveset: Mewtwo.

I questioned Lucario's return because I felt like he was an one-off character. A Pokemon that was really promoted in a movie in the fourth generation, and might still have some popularity, but would probably get replaced again for this installment. I'll admit, I was wrong. Although the thought of him replacing Mewtwo still drives me up a wall.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Okay, 23 pages, 911+ posts, and 50+ people watching the thread. Did I miss a really important/interesting leak/rumor? Or is it all just discussion for the most part?

The only notable leak is the Falco leak, but it got debunked after 24 hours of its appearance.

 

[Substitution]

Okay, 23 pages, 911+ posts, and 50+ people watching the thread. Did I miss a really important/interesting leak/rumor? Or is it all just discussion for the most part?

Pretty much.

 

[Miles Pierre]

Because he put them in after the game was released. Not before.

Maybe I am being dense but I don't see how this matters or even helps your point. This is my point. C doesn't really make sense because Sakurai has said this about Smash 4 and Brawls spoilers:

"You can only truly wow a player the first time he sees [a cutscene]. I felt if players saw the cutscenes outside of the game, they would no longer serve as rewards for playing the game, so I’ve decided against having them.”

We can deduce from what he said that:

* he likes surprising players with rewards for playing the game
* He doesn't like spoilers
* He changed cutscenes and the single player because he didn't like that people were being spoiled before hand.

Knowing what he did with the Dojo we can deduce:

* He likes surprising players
* He doesn't want people to be spoiled unless they choose

So adding these two together we can clearly see that he most likely would not show us UNLOCKABLES without giving us a warning. That's why C doesn't make sense. If he was abandoning spoilers he would abandon unlockables exactly like he is doing with the cutscenes. The cutscenes are no longer unlockables because the internet ruined that experience for the gamers.

 

[Substitution]

Maybe I am being dense but I don't see how this matters or even helps your point. This is my point. C doesn't really make sense because Sakurai has said this about Smash 4:



We can deduce from what he said that

* he likes surprising players with rewards for playing the game
* He really doesn't like it when things are spoiled
* He doesn't like spoilers
* He changed cutscenes and the single player because he didn't like that people were being spoiled before hand.

Knowing what he did with the Dojo we can deduce.

* He likes surprising players
* He doesn't want people to be spoiled unless they choose

So adding these two together we can clearly see that he most likely would not show us UNLOCKABLES without giving us a warning. That's why C doesn't make sense. If he was abandoning spoilers he would abandon unlockables exactly like he is doing with the cutscenes. The cutscenes are no longer unlockables because the internet ruined that experience for the gamers.

Let me point this out.
If Sakurai really hated spoilers as much as you say, then why bother showing us anything? If this was his mentality. We would've never gotten:
Characters,
Stages,
Gameplay,
Mechanics,
Or heck, even Pic of the Day
With this mentality, He would've kept us in the dark.
Why? Because "he hates spoiling."

 

[Miles Pierre]

Actually, in PlayStation All-Stars, DLC content is available for online matches. You can use the downloadable characters even if you have not purchased them, and there’s a chance you end up playing in a DLC stage, too. That could be done for Smash as well.

You still cannot play against a character unless you also have downloaded that character yourself. Downloading and paying for a character are two different things though. I assume PS All Stars made DLC mandatory so that you couldn't even go online without downloading all the characters.

Still this is a weird way to do things. I am very surprised to hear that you would be able to play with characters you haven't paid for. Street Fighter 4 made DLC available to download for free so that you could face against people with those characters. The only thing was you couldnt actually play with the character you downloaded unless you paid for the content. The free download in essence was only to be able to match up against other people who purchased the content. The paid download was to fight with the characters.

Let me point this out.
If Sakurai really hated spoilers as much as you say, then why bother showing us anything? If this was his mentality. We would've never gotten:
Characters,
Stages,
Gameplay,
Mechanics,
Or heck, even Pic of the Day
With this mentality, He would've kept us in the dark.
Why? Because "he hates spoiling."

That argument makes no sense. In Sakurai's mind spoilers aren't anything and everything in the game. SPOILERS ARE UNLOCKABLES. That's the point! Not to mention the DOJO already destroys your argument. I don't know how many times I have to point to the DOJO. And again, he likes surprising players with rewards for playing the game.

 

[powerprotoman]

You still cannot play against a character unless you also have downloaded that character yourself. Downloading and paying for a character are two different things though. I assume PS All Stars made DLC mandatory so that you couldn't even go online without downloading all the characters.

Still this is a weird way to do things. I am very surprised to hear that you would be able to play with characters you haven't paid for. Street Fighter 4 made DLC available to download for free so that you could face against people with those characters. The only thing was you couldnt actually play with the character you downloaded unless you paid for the content. The free download in essence was only to be able to match up against other people who purchased the content. The paid download was to fight with the characters.


That argument makes no sense. In Sakurai's mind spoilers aren't anything and everything in the game. SPOILERS ARE UNLOCKABLES. That's the point! Not to mention the DOJO already destroys your argument. I don't know how many times I have to point to the DOJO. And again, he likes surprising players with rewards for playing the game.

nope i never got any of the dlc characters and i could play against them you see theres this thing called patches...

 

[Miles Pierre]

nope i never got any of the dlc characters and i could play against them you see theres this thing called patches...

And what do you think a patch is? Content? Maybe downloadable content? Maybe... DLC?

And to add to that often times DLC is actually already on the disk. Initially I didn't even want to open that can of worms but here we are. Basically these days a lot of games say they have downloadable content to purchase, but in actuality it's a key to unlock content rather than actually download content. You will notice this if a game says that the DLC content only takes up a few KB's of space. When that happens it means the content was already on the disk and you're just purchasing the ability to use said content. I wouldn't be surprised if PS All stars already had the characters on the disk. It would make sense if you could go online and play against anyone immediately without downloading anything.

Edit: After doing some research maybe the initial poster was wrong. It seems a few characters for PS ALL STARS were free if you downloaded them within the first two weeks of their release. Maybe that's why he thought they were free to play as even though he never purchased them.

 

[9Volt]

nope i never got any of the dlc characters and i could play against them you see theres this thing called patches...

You didn´t understand, you downloded them by a update, since you didn´t pay you can´t play but they are on your console.

 

[Dott]

Let me point this out.
If Sakurai really hated spoilers as much as you say, then why bother showing us anything? If this was his mentality. We would've never gotten:
Characters,
Stages,
Gameplay,
Mechanics,
Or heck, even Pic of the Day
With this mentality, He would've kept us in the dark.
Why? Because "he hates spoiling."

That's not spoiler, thats just show some of the game to create hype for those who have been waiting the game, and encourage to buy to those who are not sure to buy it.

It's not that I main Jiggly., but because it being part of the original 12. The group that manage to return both times..

The original 12, i like that name.

 

[Substitution]

That's not spoiler, thats just show some of the game to create hype for those who have been waiting the game, and encourage to buy to those who are not sure to buy it.

It's an example if Sakurai had the mentality of hating spoilers. There would be considered "spoiling". In a way.

 

[Dott]

It's an example if Sakurai had the mentality of hating spoilers. There would be considered "spoiling". In a way.

It would be spoiler if he show the unlockable characters.

 

[Luigi#1]

I don't think the whole online thing matters unless they are really high tier.
I mean, playing against a character you haven't before?
OH NO-wait a second...

 

[Substitution]

It would be spoiler if he show the unlockable characters.

Yeah! And It's not like he's shown any...

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Is Smashboards seriously filled with 9-year olds who can't reply to post without plastering images all over and trying to re-enact them?

It's not that hard to argue why a leak isn't credible or not without trying to roleplay.

 

[Miles Pierre]

Yeah! And It's not like he's shown any...

Oh boy. We're now officially talking in circles:

The bolded is unlikely. You can't depend on past unlockable status to define whether or not they will be unlockable in the new Smash Bros. That also has no bearing on whether they will be announced before or after release.

Luigi > Unlockable in SSB64/Melee/Brawl
Marth > Unlockable in Melee/Brawl
Young Link/Toon > Link Unlockable in Melee/Brawl
Lucario > Unlockable in Brawl
Sonic > Unlockable in Brawl

All of these characters have already been revealed for the Wii U and these are the ones that are unlockables from past games. We know how much Sakurai hates spoilers. He insists on completely changing the Wii U's single player because people spoiled the SSE cinematic character intros. Also, if you remember all of these characters were shown on the DOJO but they were in a spoiler section with each character being named "hidden_XX in the URL. So it's quite clear Sakurai has taken a different route. There may not even be unlockable characters in Smash 4. At least not like we know. It's possible that this time around only retro newcomers are unlockables, or 3rd party newcomers. It would be a great way to surprise players.

I'd like to add that Ness and Captain Falcon were unlockable in 64 and Brawl, but not in Melee.

 

[Dott]

Yeah! And It's not like he's shown any...

Edit: Agree with Winged.

Also, those

are

from

others

Smash Bros. Spoiler would be if he shows unlockable NEWcomers.

 

[Snagrio]

I don't think the starting roster will have 5 Mario characters. Odds are at least one of them are unlockable.

 

[Substitution]

Well, and how do you know those are not in the initial roster?

Also, those

are

from

others

Smash Bros. Spoiler would be if he shows unlockable NEWcomers.

Implying they are unlockable...

But wait, why are we arguing over an example?
It's like that argument I had with Mimgrim all over again...

 

[Deleted member]

People should also bear in mind that unlockable does not mean the same thing as hidden.

Characters can be shown off but still have to be unlocked for player use. Perfect example is Marvel vs. Capcom 3, which featured trailers for Akuma, Taskmaster, Hsien-Ko, and Sentinel, who had to be unlocked.

In a Smash example, this would be Snake and Sonic in Brawl.
Also Marth and Ness due to the game's opening.

Same with Jigglypuff and Pichu in Melee.

In Smash 64, Luigi fit this example, appearing in the How to Play clip and in 1P Mode before being unlocked.

 

[Substitution]

People should also bear in mind that unlockable does not mean the same thing as hidden.

Characters can be shown off but still have to be unlocked for player use. Perfect example is Marvel vs. Capcom 3, which featured trailers for Akuma, Taskmaster, Hsien-Ko, and Sentinel, who had to be unlocked.

Marvel Vs Capcom 3 had unlockables! I didn't know. I assumed you got them at the start...

 

[Arcanir]

Funny you bring up Lucario, defending him because he wasn't a clone, because he replaced a character that had an original moveset: Mewtwo.

I questioned Lucario's return because I felt like he was an one-off character. A Pokemon that was really promoted in a movie in the fourth generation, and might still have some popularity, but would probably get replaced again for this installment. I'll admit, I was wrong. Although the thought of him replacing Mewtwo still drives me up a wall.

He didn't replace anyone anymore then PT replaced Mewtwo. Mewtwo was intended to be in the game alongside both but unfortunately didn't make the cut, Lucario's inclusion had nothing to do with it. The only reason people hold on to that silly notion is because they have one move that's similar.

 

[Miles Pierre]

I don't think the starting roster will have 5 Mario characters. Odds are at least one of them are unlockable.

It does seem unlikely unless, like I mentioned earlier, that there are no unlockable characters. Or that only certain crazy surprising characters are unlockable (Pac-Man or other 3rd party characters).

 

[Bowserlick]

He didn't replace anyone anymore then PT replaced Mewtwo. Mewtwo was intended to be in the game alongside both but unfortunately didn't make the cut, Lucario's inclusion had nothing to do with it. The only reason people hold on to that silly notion is because they have one move that's similar.

Lucario's inclusion did have something to do with Mewtwo not being in. He had higher priority, was completed first, and thus took up development time that was not given to Mewtwo.

 

[MasterofMonster]

I'm certain you will have to unlock characters as Always. But I'm sure Sakurai will reveal most as to not let leakers/spoilers do that for him.

Which is good, I really wanna unlock characters. And I'm sure Luigi and Rosalina are unlockables for Mario. ^^

 

[Arcanir]

Lucario's inclusion did have something to do with Mewtwo not being in. He had higher priority, was completed first, and thus took up development time that was not given to Mewtwo.

And in the same vein, PT was also ahead of both and took up even more development time then either being a 3-in-1 character yet I don't see any accusations thrown his way. The same can also be said with every other newcomer as they took up development time that Mewtwo could've gotten but didn't. No matter how you argue it, Lucario can't be blamed as the sole reason for Mewtwo's exclusion, you either have to share the blame among all the newcomers or none at all.

 

[The Nerd]

I feel like Sakurai is OK with showing off hidden characters that aren't surprises anymore. I mean, suppose Luigi is unlockable; if he was never shown off prior to the game's release it's not like anyone would be wondering if Luigi was in as he's been in the last three games. Marth is in a similar boat. I would argue that because Lucario could be considered dicey he's probably a starter now but I do not believe every character revealed so far is a starter.

 

[Luigi#1]

I feel like Sakurai is OK with showing off hidden characters that aren't surprises anymore. I mean, suppose Luigi is unlockable; if he was never shown off prior to the game's release it's not like anyone would be wondering if Luigi was in as he's been in the last three games. Marth is in a similar boat. I would argue that because Lucario could be considered dicey he's probably a starter now but I do not believe every character revealed so far is a starter.

I think Mega Man as a 3rd Party character is unlockable, similar to how Sonic and Snake were unlockable.

 

[Miles Pierre]

One way that I could see him unveiling unlockable characters is if Nintendo told him not to hold anything back to build hype. He technically spoiled Snake and Sonic before unveiling them on the DOJO. So it is possible.

 

[Bowserlick]

And in the same vein, PT was also ahead of both and took up even more development time then either being a 3-in-1 character yet I don't see any accusations thrown his way. The same can also be said with every other newcomer as they took up development time that Mewtwo could've gotten but didn't. No matter how you argue it, Lucario can't be blamed as the sole reason for Mewtwo's exclusion, you either have to share the blame among all the newcomers or none at all.

So you're saying that I was right.

 

[Wanderer from Roseyard]

One way that I could see him unveiling unlockable characters is if Nintendo told him not to hold anything back to build hype. He technically spoiled Snake and Sonic before unveiling them on the DOJO. So it is possible.

I concur with that. There are klaxons going off at Nintendo right now, so there is probably pressure to consistently unveil the popular characters and keep the hype train chugging, their status as unlockable meaning nothing.

 

[Miles Pierre]

I concur with that. There are klaxons going off at Nintendo right now, so there is probably pressure to consistently unveil the popular characters and keep the hype train chugging, their status as unlockable meaning nothing.

Exactly. My whole point is we don't know. Right now it's confusing. We cannot say with certainty that he's showing unlockables on the Wii U site. But we also can't say for sure he isn't. What we can say is that right now it's incredibly unclear as to who is and who isn't unlockable.

 

[SlickWylde]

Chill pills, people. Take them. Please. Passive aggressive insults really aren't going to prove a point, it's just going to make the world a grumpier place.

Anyway, we've confirmed the Falco leak is fake, so what now? Back to Palutena? haha

 

[Shorts]

I feel like all newcomers shown, will not be unlockable, save third parties. Rosalina will be a standard start out character. Luigi will probably be unlockable, and maybe Tlink as well if we don't get a fifth Zelda character. (Because if we did, why have three characters hidden?) Lucario maybe a standard this time around if Trainer is either taking a while, or cut. Also, that's assuming we will have a Pokemon newcomer. So far, Sonic, Megan, and Luigi are the only characters revealed that I see are for sure, unlockables.

 

[Arcanir]

So you're saying that I was right.

No, I'm saying your type of thinking is somewhat narrow-minded. You're trying to force an idea on a character that really had no effect on the outcome of another other then being made. None of the newcomers were made with Mewtwo's status in mind and neither was Lucario.

 

[MasterofMonster]

No, I'm saying your type of thinking is somewhat narrow-minded. You're trying to force an idea on a character that really had no effect on the outcome of another other then being made. None of the newcomers were made with Mewtwo's status in mind and neither was Lucario.

Indeed. It would appear, though, that Sonic's late inclusion may have been a major factor in Mewtwo's exclusion. As well as maybe some of the other Forbidden Seven.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I am positive he is showing all characters anyway despite being unlockable

Because like mentioned he hated spoilers thats why subspace was kicked because he wanted fans to find out for them selfs

He's probably showing all characters anyway so no suprises get ruined for first timers on smash 4. And then He reveals which ones and how to unlock that character after all characters are revealed and when the game comes out (I mean he did that with brawl dojo he revealed how to get the unlockable characters)

That's my theory anyway

 

[Louie G.]

I feel like Villager and Wii Fit Trainer are starters, while Rosalina and Mega Man are unlockable.
Personally I foresee every character revealed before launch.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

My two cents on the matter: I think Luigi will be unlockable again, for the sake of tradition. Rosalina doesn't really scream "Starter character" to me. I can't really see Mario having four starter characters (or five if Luigi is actually a starter, which again I fully doubt.) I'm near certain Toon Link will be unlockable again. If a Zelda newcomer gets in, I think it would be more likely for Ganondorf to be a starter, but that's all just what I think.

Anyway, this is an off-topic discussion, just wanted to give my two cents on it. I'll be checking back here in a bit to see if any new "leaks" have turned up.

 

[Substitution]

I feel like Villager and Wii Fit Trainer are starters, while Rosalina and Mega Man are unlockable.

I agree with the first part.

Personally I foresee every character revealed before launch.

But not the second.