Chiroz
Tier Lists? Foolish...
For the sake of argument, I wanted to ask a friend of mine who is currently studying to become a game designer, and he had this to say:
(What he said is in white and what I said is in blue. Sorry that it's a long read.)
___, perhaps you would know more about this than I do...
someone discussing the Palutena photos pointed out that the pictures are on a 3DS.
Right.
Would the game be on a 3DS cartridge/harddrive at this point in development?
Well, that would depend on how they go about making the game.
If the game IS on a cartridge at this point, that means that the game is, at least, in a beta build, since an alpha build is when, like... everything is just basic, geometric shapes before models are inserted... or something like that.
When a game is in beta, yeah, I guess that's when people start playtesting it... and if that's the case...
It would be possible for it to be on a cartridge. At least, that's as much as I know. Bear in mind that I'm only starting my second semester.
HOWEVER, and additionally, if it IS in beta build... that would imply that the game might be near completion.
At least, in the sense of models.
Well, here's exactly what the person said on the subject:
*I copy-pasted exactly what you said here*
So, I suppose the question I have is...
Would "anyone have a cartridge with an unfinished game on it?"
Okay... that guy definitely knows what he's saying, and he's smart.... but...
First of all, during the Sakurai interview thing during E3 2013, Sakurai was clearly seen holding a 3DS with a capture unit to it. I don't think he was just pretending to play... chances are, the game was actually in the system.
You mean the developer direct?
But, second of all, that guy might be right. If there's as little data as the guy says that there is, then there's no point for it to be on a cartridge.
Yes, the developer direct.
However, it is common for developers to test games on a console quite often. That's why developer kits exist... and why *insert friend of ours* collects them.
Because sometimes, a game might run differently on a console than it might on a computer.
Here's what my first thought was.
And this was going to be a follow up question:
Okee dokey!
Would a computer be able to have the 3D capabilities?
If not, wouldn't it make more sense for 3DS games to be tested more often on the system?
Well, I believe 3D monitors exist, but... yes, you could be right.
But continue with what you were saying.
I can't confirm or deny whether or not these pictures are real, but if I had to prove that they were real... the game is clearly far enough to where it can be PLAYED, which may imply that it's already at a beta build, which could mean that all the major aspects are put into the game. The only thing that would need to be added after a beta build are fix-ups.
Well... my information might be wrong on that, but the point is, that guy is right, the game would have to be fairly far in development.
Animations for characters might not even be complete yet. But, the point of testing it on a 3DS instead of a computer is to see how the finished result will turn out.
As for "games not being sent out till their printed," that is only true for completed copies. Obviously game testers need a copy of the game.
The 3DS might look weird in the picture because, perhaps, it is a developer version. And I know that the guy said that it looks unusual in comparison to other developer versions, but hey... there exist various developer kits for different consoles.
But, developers test games on both a computer AND a console. The point of testing it on the console is to see how the game is looking. It's risky to make the whole game on a computer and then play it a console. It's a smarter move to see it on a console as development ensues, even if it is more time-consuming.
As for "getting a cartridge," Smash Bros. is a high budget game. I'm sure that they can get plenty of cartridges.
And, knowing Sakurai, he would take the latter route.
Exactly.
For example, I use a program called Unity. It's a game making program.
You have a scene... and a preview. The "preview" is how the game will look in the final version. But, you can still play the game through the scene.
The "scene" is... well, the scene. The level your in. Your setting.
In the "scene," you can adjust it however you want. But you CAN'T adjust anything in the "preview."
So, people will often play a game in the preview window, find a mistake, and fix it in the scene window. Then they might play it in the scene window to make sure everything in the background (or something that won't be seen in the preview window) is working.... does that make sense?
Basically, in this scenario, the "preview" would be the 3DS, and the "scene" would be the computer.
You gotta go back and forth to fix stuff. Just looking at the "scene," or the computer, doesn't guarantee that the game will look as pretty in the 3DS, or the "preview."
All you test on a computer is to make sure that stuff in the background works.
All you test on a console or handheld is to make sure that the game itself, or what the player will see when he/she buys the game, works.
So, pictures like that one of Pyrosphere that Sakurai said "is not accessible in-game" would be from the "scene," right?
Yeah!
Because he even said that that type of view was not accessible in game.
Now, of course, he took the picture off of a Wii U console.
How do you know?
Well... if he took the picture off of the computer, the quality would probably be higher, and/or show some other... stuff.
So, he probably messed with some coding and scripting on the camera to take that picture.
Ah, all right.
But, on his computer, he can do that with ease. Just by dragging his mouse around, he can get whatever view of the stage that he wants.
So, for example... let's use the Pyrosphere as an example. We see lava spewing and floating backgrounds, right? That's what we see in-game.
On a computer, Sakurai can look at more than that. Perhaps, behind the walls of the stage, there's probably just a floating particle effect spewing the lava, and maybe some random floating blocks or something.
But the player shouldn't be able to see those things. And that's the point of testing it on a console... at least, one of the main points.
Polygon count and stuff are also important. The game might run at perfect speed on a computer, but it might slow down on a console because of the polygon count. Computers are stronger than consoles, so you gotta test the game on a console to make sure that everything runs smoothly.
Loading times and player inputs also have to be tested on a console. Sure, you can play the game on a computer with whatever buttons you want, but you have to play the game on a console to make sure that everything "feels" right.
Basically, what I'm getting at is... people test stuff on consoles all the time.
So, it is likely that that was printed on a cartridge. And printing 10 beta cartridges shouldn't be a problem for a high-budget game like Smash Bros.
I don't know if anyone else has addressed this (I haven't caught up with the thread yet), but I am actually about to finish my Masters in Game Development and I can assure you for a fact that games are tested on consoles almost from the get-go as soon as there is something to test.
Also what both your friend and the original poster seem to be forgetting is that there is no need to "print out cartridges". I have made games on Xbox, Playstation and PS Vita and on all 3 I was given programs by my proffesor (who works in the industry) which allowed me to export all of my assets and then send my game code through the wireless net into a console that was specifically prepared to receive these assets and code blocks and I would then be able to modify my code and run it whenever I wanted on the console.
By this I mean that after I was done with all the "synching, exporting and sending code" crap I was able to just code on the computer normally and then run my code and the game would run on the Xbox 360/Playstation 3/PS Vita.
So yea... There is no need to print copies at all.
Edit: also, your friend has a weird definition of Alpha. From what I understand Alpha is <50% done or when the game is already playable but is still vastly incomplete (but it could already have models in, just not the final models or unpolished models). Beta means that the game is nearing its completion but still has work to be done.
There is also the release stage, where normally light balancing and bug fixing happens and the game is sent for QA testing and to critics and raters. Then the game goes into "Gold" stage, this is when the game is mass produced and released into the market.
There are more phases that go before Alpha, but at least that is my understanding of it. I believe Smash 4 is probably starting its beta phases, but I have no idea whatsoever xD.
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