• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

SSB4: How Nintendo could turn the (competitve) beat back.

tirkaro

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 24, 2006
Messages
2,808
Location
but a pig in the sun
Link to original post: [drupal=4365]SSB4: How Nintendo could turn the (competitve) beat back.[/drupal]





Every year, I've made it a tradition every mid-June to feign sickness to skip class, turn on G4TV (My computer is too crappy to stream anything reliably), kick back with their annual showing of "The King of Kong: A Fist Full of Quarters", and be emotionally swept away by whatever the hell Nintendo has to offer at their conference. It's pretty much replaced Christmas and my birthday for my yearly dose of "giggle like a schoolgirl and jump around in excitement." Lately they've been pretty disappointing, but they more than made up for it since their amazmagasmic E3 2010 showing. (Christ, has it really been almost a year since then!?)

But that's besides the point. What really matters here is that with the tides of E3 slowly seeping it's grubby hands in, the only thing I can really think of is Nintendo's new fancy-pants HD thingamajig, the Project Frappuccino or whatever. As we all know, Nintendo is usually in tip-top shape when showcasing new hardware, and with some of the absolutely insane rumors going around with this machine, such as it having essentially an NGP for a controller, being aimed at a core audience again, and being able to cure diabetes and raise your grandmother from the dead, my frothing demand for valid information only increases. But even more importantly, a new Nintendo console always brings with it a brand spankin' new Super Smash Brothers. And while it's not too certain, or even likely, that a next-gen 'brothers could be unveiled at this point, it certainly could chug the Project Double Mocha Espresso hype train quite a ways for the hardcore Nintendo gamer.


Time for an extremely brief history lesson with me and Smash Bros. While 64 was great and all, I still list Super Smash Bros. Melee as one of the greatest and most significant games I've ever played. It was one of the first games I really started playing on a competitive level, and introduced me to the exciting and terrifying world of competitive gaming. (Of course, I never was good enough to make a big splash in the SSB world, mainly because I was but a tiny little tyke back then.) While it probably wasn't the most balanced fighter out there, it still had loads of wicked tricks of it's own. Even today, it plays quite unlike any other game out there, and has always been an endless source of wonder for me that I still don't get out of any game nowadays. Seriously, everything about that game is pure f**kin' miracles.
When Super Smash Bros. Brawl was announced, I mostly expected more of the same. I my hopelessly optimistic self expected an even sexier version of Melee with more characters, secrets, surprises, and hopefully better balance. Sadly, that wasn't meant to be in the end, for reasons I'll explain later.

But nonetheless, with a new Smash potentially over the horizon, I feel bored enough to make yet another cliche wishlist for the game. Not just any cliche wishlist though, as I won't get into character selection or any nonsense like that. No, this is all about core gameplay, and the potential for Nintendo to deliver a true competitive follow up to the Smash experience I've waited ever so long for.



EXTREMELY HOPEFUL THING 1- PLEASE, OH PLEASE, AT LEAST GET SOME NEW BLOOD INVOLVED

On the .0001% chance you actually know me, you should know that I tend to complain about Sakurai's rather...questionable choices with the Smash Bros. series. But in all honesty, I don't think he's a terrible game designer. He should just probably be limited when it comes to fighting games. After all, it's said that Miyamoto wanted more of a multiplayer experience with Melee, while Sakurai wanted more of a single-player shindig. Miyamoto's vision gave us one of the greatest fighters of all time, while Sakurai's vision gave us... well, Brawl, lol. Honestly, while a lot of people tend to decry Sakurai as "hating" the Smash competitive scene, I really do think his heart was in the right place with Brawl. He just did a terrible, terrible job at it. I don't think he completely despises the competitive scene, but rather, he wanted to make the gap between Casual and Hardcore much less imposing. That's not necessarily a bad thing, as pretty much all recent fighters have been doing the same thing. But doing things like completely random tripping, limiting gameplay and character control to a parody of it's former self, and deliberately removing positively received techniques in the name of "DEAR GOD, THINK OF THE CASUALS" is simply going too far. If Sakurai simply must direct this next game in some way, I personally believe he should be given less control.
And on that note, there's also the much less talked about issue with Game Arts. We're not exactly sure how much Game Arts had to do with the general direction and basic gameplay of Brawl, but they seemed like a rather odd choice for developing an action game. While Lunar and Grandia were great and all, those were all JRPGs, pretty much as far away from an action title as it gets. Sure, Dimps was also an odd choice for developing Street Fighter 4, but at least they were experienced with, y'know, action games. But still, we really don't have any idea how much they had to do with the core gameplay. However, they did have their own chance to shine with the purely Game Arts developed TMNT: Smash Up, and OLOLOLOLOLOLOLROFL HOLY CRAP THAT GAME WAS BAD LOL. Yeah, I don't really like you that much GA, now get out of here before you make me feel even more uncomfortable, and get on that 3243983498535th remake of Lunar or something.

Now, who would I get to develop the next Smash if I had things my way? Hell, I'd just about choose anyone as long as they had some sort of experience with fighters. Personally, I'd choose Capcom, but that's wishful thinking. If Capcom was making SSB4, it would have been leaked 3 months ago. But hey, speaking of Capcom....


EXTREMELY HOPEFUL THING 2- LEARN FROM THE BEST TO OVERCOME THE REST


SSBB was released at a time when fighters were rather floundering, at least in the global market. Of course, that all changed when Street Fighter 4 hit the scene, introducing a resurgence of fighters to the mainstream market. And guess what? Street Fighter 4 didn't have to do things like random tripping, removing combos or supers, make everyone super-floaty, and remove advanced techniques to appeal to a mainstream market. HELL NO! Sure it was a made a bit easier compared to SFIII, but it retained all the things that made it competitive-worthy, and it actually didn't cause the heads of casual gamers to invert into a series of black holes, dooming the universe! And let's not even stop there, with the domination of multiplayer games like (ugh) Call of Duty and other fps pew pew crap, it's that people want competition! Even the lowliest of casuals do! And now that fighting games are a new hotness in mainstream gaming again, the time couldn't be better for a real, competitive Smash! One to really tangle with the big boys, like Street Fighter, MvC, and (ugh) Mortal Kombat! What, you think that any partially competitive aspects will somehow turn casuals away? Once again, look the hell over at Cawadooty. The crap sells like hotcakes, despite being a *gasp*, competitive multiplayer game. Now, would anyone care about CoD if your guns could randomly jam, you had no way of identifying other players, and used the core gameplay engine of Wolfenstein 3D? HEEEELL NAAW! But now you're wondering, if SSBB did so much wrong, how did it sell so well? Well duh, as long as you stick Mario on the cover, it's sure to sell somewhere within the Metric F**ktons, no matter how mediocre the product is. (See: New Super Mario Bros series, Mario & Sonic, SSBB(hehehe))
And driving the point home once and for all, do you know what the best selling game for the 3DS so far is? Is it that super-casual-friendly game, Nintendogs + Cats? HAHA, no. The first 3DS game to break 1 frickin' Million is none other than SUPER STREET FIGHTER 4: 3D EDITION! On a NINTENDO SYSTEM! YOU HAVE NO F**KING EXCUSE ANYMORE NINTENDO. A PORT OF A YEAR OLD GAME TOPPED THE 3DS CHARTS, DESPITE BEING A TITLE BASED PURELY ON COMPETITIVE GAMEPLAY! People DO like competition Nintendo, so stop fooling around!
And on a very related note....


EXTREMELY HOPEFUL THING 3- ACCEPTABLE ONLINE

Note that I simply said "Acceptable Online." That's because I can easily describe SSBB's online experience with one word: Unacceptable. Everything about it's online is simply unacceptable. I'm not even talking about the crippling amounts of lag, that's kind of a given thanks to the Wii. But no organized match-ups? Unacceptable. No way of seeing who you're fighting? Unacceptable. No rankings? Unacceptable. Pretty much no options whatsoever when doing a random match? UNACCEPTABLE. Having to punch in somebody else's friend code every time you want to so much get an organized battle with them? UNACCEPTABLE. Not even any OPTIONAL methods of communication through the game? UNACCEPTABLE.
Hell, no records whatsoever? UNACCEPTABLE
Hell, get a load of THIS timeless quote from the SSBB website!
Quote:
If you think of your opponent as a simple scarecrow, any psychological barriers may melt away.
lololol, can you believe this guy? I mean, WHAT'S THE F**KING POINT!? If I wanted to play with SCARECROWS, I'd pretty much play with CPUs. That's it! They might as well be even dumber CPUs! (I say even dumber because there's no way any half-decent nor sane player would ever bother with SSBB's with-anyone online play)THAT'S PRETTY F**KING COUNTER-INTUITIVE IF I DO SAY SO MYSELF! It's like this guy only recently heard of the internet, and only got his information of it from Fox News! And yes, I purely blame Sakurai for this monstrosity, since even Nintendo's Mario Kart Wii had online options that look like freaking Xbox Live compared to SSBB. Hell, even TMNT: Smash-Up had decent online play, so Sakurai has no excuse. Now stop being stupid Sakurai and give us the proper online play Smash Bros. deserves.
Now, how would my ideal SSB online experience be? All we really need are the essentials, like proper match-ups, actual rankings, profiles that EVERYONE can see (And if Sakurai is really that paranoid, at least give the option of making a profile private.), hell, just the basic SSF4 online structure will do. Just make it, and say it with me folks, ACCEPTABLE.

EXTREMELY HOPEFUL THING 4- IF IT MUST BE DIFFERENT, MAKE IT A GOOD KIND OF DIFFERENT.


I've heard multiple times that if Sakurai were to make a new Smash Bros., he would like to make it "different" in some way. This could go in pretty much every possible direction, both bad and good. While it is pretty much the opposite of what every Smash fan wants, I'd personally much prefer to start anew rather than have another dumbed-down game like Brawl. IMO, a "good" kind of different game could be something that adds a neat game-shaker like MvC-style team battles, or a modified version of the Koma system from Nintendo's Jump Stars series, or even shifting between layers of the stage like in Fatal Fury and Ultimate Ninja. However, a "bad" kind of a different could be....well, this is Nintendo, use your imagination, lol. That said, this should be an option that requires much caution, even if the idea does sound good on paper.


EXTREMELY HOPEFUL THING 5- MORE INSTALLMENTS AND UPDATES

Now this is some real hopeful thinking, and a bit detached from the topic at hand, but listen up: I think one of the biggest flaws of the SSB series is that it simply is not whoring out enough. They just release far too sporadically for their own good. And for a fighting game, this simply isn't enough. So screw this whole "Once every console" BS, make SSB a yearly thing like Mario Party or Cawwadoody. What, you think you'll just oversaturate the series? Hogwash, NOBODY can get enough SSB! Really, if SSB was released anywhere close on a CoD-like basis, that would do far more good for the series than bad. Even if the next game DOES suck, at least ONE installment will get it right! If you could afford to release a Mario Party every year until it's untimely death with 8, and eventual reincarnation with Wii Party, you sure as hell can afford to speed up releases of one of your best selling franchises ever! Besides, this is a fighting game series we're talking about here, so you obviously have an excuse!
But even if that isn't an option, you could always use the Project Starbucks Trenta's enhanced online capabilities to deliver more updates and DLC. Some balance issues? Just patch it! (Hey, Capcom's been doing it with MvC3, and the same kind of stealth balancing is going on with the new Mortal Kombat, expect it to be a new genre standard.) And imagine all the $$$ you can make with DLC Stages and Characters. Just give us MORE SMASH BROS., and we'll kindly fork over the cash. AS LONG AS you don't use this service for evil, like say you accidentally make another Melee and you eventually patch it to make an even dumber-downed version of Brawl without the ability to switch back because OH GOD THINK OF THE IMAGINARY, NON-EXISTENT IMAGE OF CASUAL GAMERS WE HAVE IN OUR HEADS!

And hey, speaking of additional characters...


EXTREMELY HOPEFUL THING 7- GO KKKKKRRRAAAZY WITH CHARACTERS!


Okay, let's go off the main topic for a moment. SSBB had a surprisingly conservative roster for a game of it's type. I mean, only about 36 characters? Hell, during speculation of the game, people were expecting a bare minimum of 40. I suppose it could be justified for the sake of balancing, but LOL@ Brawl's "balance." That crap was all for nothing, was it? This time around, SCREW balancing! You know what we want? CHARACTERS, man! I want characters EVERYWHERE up in this b**ch. I want to CHOKE on the sheer amount of characters. I want new characters, old characters, male characters, female characters, big characters, tiny characters, cool characters, lame characters, asian characters, black characters, green characters, demon characters, robot characters, even dead characters if you're into that kind of thi- okay, I'll stop now. I want some crazy crap like MvC2 man! What, you think it'll just lead to MvC2 levels of imbalance? Hell, MvC2 is actually pretty good if you ignore Storm/Magneto/Sent/Commando assist. And even then, hey, those stealth balance patches I talked about there? Yeah, get on that. NO EXCUSE NINTENDO, GET ON THAT.


EXTREMELY HOPEFUL THING 8- LESS FLUFF, MORE SUBSTANCE

Alright, back to the main topic on hand. With SSBB, about half the game was devoted to it's single player. Most of that consisting of it's massive adventure mode, The Subspace Emissary. Which, despite all the effort put into it, was pure horses**t. I went through it once and never wanted to suffer through that repetitive snooze-fest ever again. Yet this giant tumor of a mode was so big, it demanded SSBB to be shipped on a dual-layered disk. Enough of this crap, I say. Miyamoto was right, SSB should be a multiplayer-focused franchise, and leave that fluff out of it. Loads of dev time went into that mode that could have gone into more characters and other things that relate to core gameplay. Smash Bros is much more suited for the smaller, more bite-sized single player modes like Break the Targets, Multi-man battles, and Events. If there absolutely must be an adventure mode, at least make it a smaller deal, like Melee's. Otherwise, don't bother, and focus on the core game.


EXTREMELY HOPEFUL THING 9- ON A CLOSING NOTE.


At this point, it sounds like I have nothing but unfathomable anger towards SSBB. And actually, I do. Games like, well, all the ones I was talking about, prove that you don't have to destroy more hardcore elements to appeal to a wide market. Hell, all casual gamers couldn't care less about how the upper tiers of players can L roman cancel or waveshimmy or shuffleboard and all that crap. In fact, all this competitive stuff only increases the long-time appeal of the game in the end, as we all know. While I certainly don't expect Nintendo to so much as consider this,(This post is, after all, just another internet wishlist) I sure hope they'll have enough common sense to notice the recent successes of competitive multiplayer and hardcore fighting games, so they don't feel the need to dumb down SBB even further. I am, after all, a very optimistic guy, so no matter if the next Smash is a winner or a bust, I'm at least highly interested as to what the future of this franchise holds. As for now, happy E3!
 

Big-Cat

Challenge accepted.
Joined
Jul 24, 2007
Messages
16,176
Location
Lousiana
NNID
KumaOso
3DS FC
1590-4853-0104
Good read. I've been thinking for quite some time that if SSB wants to "survive" in a market where fighting games are making a return, it has to step things up. If Smash had stayed as Dragon King, the third game would've been an absolute laughing stock. IMO, the thing that managed to "save" Brawl was the fact it has Mario and co. in it.

Personally, I've been found of three attack buttons and a special button similar to BlazBlue if Smash were to get revamp. The main reason is that the past Smash games have had a tendency to inherently favor certain characters, particularly ones with good aerials (not an exact requirement though). At least the above one wouldn't necessarily favor anyone.
 

Player-1

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
12,186
Location
Rainbow Cruise
I agreed with most of the stuff you said up until releasing smash game every year. I really like seeing how the competitive metagame can grow and is still growing, hell as much as I love smash bros games I'd like to see brawl's lifespan hit at least 5 years before a new game comes out (not to say that it wont if a new one is announced since development and postponing etc.). I really don't think brawl is THAT bad especially since the competeive scene is still alive and kickin'. But good read really liked some of the stuff you had to say in here.

:phone:
 

finalark

SNORLAX
Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Messages
7,829
Location
Tucson, Arizona
If Smash became a yearly franchise such as Call of Duty or Madden, asking us to drop $50-60 on what boils down to an expansion pack once a year, I think I would have to punch a baby.

EDIT: When it comes to characters I would be okay with a small cast if it meant more diversity and more game balance.
 

tirkaro

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 24, 2006
Messages
2,808
Location
but a pig in the sun
Personally, I've been found of three attack buttons and a special button similar to BlazBlue if Smash were to get revamp. The main reason is that the past Smash games have had a tendency to inherently favor certain characters, particularly ones with good aerials (not an exact requirement though). At least the above one wouldn't necessarily favor anyone.
That actually sounds really good. (Probably much better of a game-changer than the off-hand examples I gave.)

I agreed with most of the stuff you said up until releasing smash game every year. I really like seeing how the competitive metagame can grow and is still growing, hell as much as I love smash bros games I'd like to see brawl's lifespan hit at least 5 years before a new game comes out (not to say that it wont if a new one is announced since development and postponing etc.).
I suppose you have a point, though that didn't exactly stop most mainstream fighters from releasing a new update of some sort every year. (But I guess you could make the argument that Smash just isn't like most other fighters. Hell, it took more than a year for the Melee competitive scene to so much resemble it's current form.)

I really don't think brawl is THAT bad especially since the competeive scene is still alive and kickin'. But good read really liked some of the stuff you had to say in here.
It is, but my main gripe is that Brawl probably wouldn't have even been considered for competitive play had it not been for the last installments. And even so, I guess you could say I'm rallying not so much against the game, but rather the ideas behind it.

EDIT: When it comes to characters I would be okay with a small cast if it meant more diversity and more game balance.
But that's the thing, the balance with the Smash Bros series has always been pretty bad. (Even 64's and Melee's.) I'd personally prefer an unbalanced smorgasbord of characters than an unbalanced conservative assortment of characters, since Nintendo have pretty much proven to us they can't balance to save their lives.
 

MarthTrinity

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
1,954
Location
The Cosmos Beneath Rosalina's Skirt
EDIT: When it comes to characters I would be okay with a small cast if it meant more diversity and more game balance.
Except Smash characters aren't even that unique sans characters like Snake and a handful of others. This -IS- the series that made Ganondorf a clone of Captain Falcon; give us as many characters as possible and -AIM- to differentiate them. It was absolutely shocking that Ganondorf was a clone two games in a row (although yeah, he got tweaked a bit in Brawl but still...). Basically, unless they're aiming to make the characters like...MvC3 level of unique, just pile on the characters to get the fan favorites in there.

Good read, tirk.

Also I just noticed the title of the thread.
 

Jam Stunna

Writer of Fortune
BRoomer
Joined
May 6, 2006
Messages
6,450
Location
Hartford, CT
3DS FC
0447-6552-1484
While I find that I disagree with many of the specific suggestions this blog makes, I do agree with the overall message that SSB needs a major change in direction. Even ignoring the competitive complaints, Brawl was a bad game in some very basic ways. SSB doesn't need to be like other fighting games per se, but if you're making a game where characters fight, that demands a certain kind of attention that wasn't given to Brawl (as the OP says, it seems like the primary focus was SSE, and not the actual multiplayer aspect).
 

Teran

Through Fire, Justice is Served
Super Moderator
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
37,167
Location
Beastector HQ
3DS FC
3540-0079-4988
Disagree with most of this, because Smash isn't a competitive fighter.
 

Teran

Through Fire, Justice is Served
Super Moderator
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
37,167
Location
Beastector HQ
3DS FC
3540-0079-4988
Obviously it is if there is a competitive scene

:phone:
Right regardless of the fact that Sakurai is trying his utmost to kill whatever made Smash competitive. Sure you can tweak the game options enough to create that sort of environment, but ultimately if the game developers make choices which negatively affect the competitive side of the game, it's not like you can complain because Smash was never meant to be a competitive fighter. That's my point


Keep telling yourself that. :flinstone:
Nah I'm not ******** so I don't need to repeat obvious things to myself.
 

Player-1

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
12,186
Location
Rainbow Cruise
I don't see how i was suppose to derive that from:


Disagree with most of this, because Smash isn't a competitive fighter.
because the 2 statements that "smash isn't a competitive fighter" and "You can't complain about the game because it wasn't made to be a competitive fighter" are 2 completely different things
 

Abel1994

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 15, 2010
Messages
1,882
Location
Dacula,GA
lol I read the whole thing.

We also need faster gameply and take broken range out and they need to lrn2testcharb4realesinggame

I mean havnt they played snake to realize the broken range?
 

lordvaati

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 7, 2006
Messages
3,148
Location
Seattle, WA
Switch FC
SW-4918-2392-4599
you actually want Smash to be a yearly series? you mad? that's what killed Guitar hero. and if you noticed, Nintendo stopped releasing mario Party games every year.
 

Teran

Through Fire, Justice is Served
Super Moderator
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
37,167
Location
Beastector HQ
3DS FC
3540-0079-4988
I don't see how i was suppose to derive that from:




because the 2 statements that "smash isn't a competitive fighter" and "You can't complain about the game because it wasn't made to be a competitive fighter" are 2 completely different things
No they aren't. The essence of the game is what's important, and the essence of Smash is not a competitive fighter.

End of.
 

Abel1994

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 15, 2010
Messages
1,882
Location
Dacula,GA
I mean street fighter is the same game all 4 and arcade and stuff. yet they sell alot because of improve graphics and more char to balance out. Street fighter is one of those games were it actually doesnt matter who you main but how you use themm unlike brawl were you can Bair someone to death and those chaingrabs -_-
 

Mr.Jackpot

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 30, 2011
Messages
1,727
Location
WA
If Smash became a yearly franchise such as Call of Duty or Madden, asking us to drop $50-60 on what boils down to an expansion pack once a year, I think I would have to punch a baby.

When it comes to characters I would be okay with a small cast if it meant more diversity and more game balance.
^This
10char
 

Player-1

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
12,186
Location
Rainbow Cruise
No they aren't. The essence of the game is what's important, and the essence of Smash is not a competitive fighter.

End of.
Yes they are because smash is obviously a competitive fighter, we have tournaments for smash, we've had tournaments for smash for over 10 years, a large number of people take part in said tournaments, MLG has sponsored us twice and is even giving us a throwback event this year most likely, a large amount of money is put into and given back for smash, if that isn't a competitive fighter then IDK what is.

The other statement is that it wasn't made to be a competitive fighter which is true.


What it was made for =/= what it is.

The 2 statements aren't even comparable.
 

Flutter NiTE

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
1,634
Location
PA, USA
Yes they are because smash is obviously a competitive fighter, we have tournaments for smash, we've had tournaments for smash for over 10 years, a large number of people take part in said tournaments, MLG has sponsored us twice and is even giving us a throwback event this year most likely, a large amount of money is put into and given back for smash, if that isn't a competitive fighter then IDK what is.
It's not a competitive fighter, it's a competitive community. Smash Brothers is a party game, it was not made to be a competitive game such as SF or Tekken, we MADE it into what it is, but the soul purpose of the game was for people to play with a group of friends for fun at a party, nothing more.


Good read all around OP
 

Big-Cat

Challenge accepted.
Joined
Jul 24, 2007
Messages
16,176
Location
Lousiana
NNID
KumaOso
3DS FC
1590-4853-0104
There are plenty of things that could've been sent to Sakurai, but it's obviously not going to happen. The best thing that would be a wakeup call is part two of the OP. Competitive gaming, especially in fighting games, is becoming more and more apparant and "mainstream" in gaming circles.

I just want to say something that others have said. Yearly updates should NOT happen. Aside from getting Guiter Hero-itus, we would get the same thing that hurt Street Fighter II all those years ago. At most, we should get an additional update or two and then let the metagame settle itself.
 

Flutter NiTE

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
1,634
Location
PA, USA
I want to see them updating the game with patches over wi-fi. But ofcourse, they would never do that to balance characters for the casual gamers.
 

Ecks

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 16, 2010
Messages
1,211
^ They will make Link worse with every patch.

But seriously, I don't agree with a new smash every year either. What they should do is add dlc every once in a while. add a few characters, stages and maybe some new songs for said stages. They shouldn't even think of adding an adventure mode as long as sse either. An Adventure mode is fine, but damn...

They could even leave some characters and stages behind at release and add them through dlc later.
 

Teran

Through Fire, Justice is Served
Super Moderator
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
37,167
Location
Beastector HQ
3DS FC
3540-0079-4988
Yes they are because smash is obviously a competitive fighter, we have tournaments for smash, we've had tournaments for smash for over 10 years, a large number of people take part in said tournaments, MLG has sponsored us twice and is even giving us a throwback event this year most likely, a large amount of money is put into and given back for smash, if that isn't a competitive fighter then IDK what is.

The other statement is that it wasn't made to be a competitive fighter which is true.


What it was made for =/= what it is.

The 2 statements aren't even comparable.
It's not a competitive fighter, it's a competitive community. Smash Brothers is a party game, it was not made to be a competitive game such as SF or Tekken, we MADE it into what it is, but the soul purpose of the game was for people to play with a group of friends for fun at a party, nothing more.


Good read all around OP
For convenience's sake.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

Red Fox Warrior
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Messages
27,486
Location
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
NNID
RedRyu_Smash
3DS FC
0344-9312-3352
A lot of the competitive aspects of Smash come from the players, not the core game itself.

OP was fine to read, things I agree and disagree with, but defiantly effort was put into it.
 

IYM!

Smash Lord
Joined
May 24, 2010
Messages
1,478
Location
this "!" is part of my nick (Chile)
Super Samsh Brothers isnt a competitive game, this isnt a opinion, is -sadly- a True.

Just do a general overlook to all 3 games of the series, and all have the same problems:

Unbalanced characters and poor amount of "competitive" stages.

Sakurai himself said that before, he dont have any intention of balance the roster, they just think in the money and no in the competitive public.

but this is precisaly that makes the Smash series big, this saga isnt like the other fighting games, is more crazy and simple to learn, full of posible crazy moments, like random explotions and laughs with your friends.

My dream of a perfect Smash is have a game with a balance between Competitive and Party game.
 

EpixAura

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Messages
474
Location
Greenville, NC
I agree almost entirely with the OP. However, I don't think it should be a yearly thing. CoD can get away with it, because it doesn't really require players to master techskills, and isn't expected to implement new gameplay elements. Smash, on the other hand, couldn't manage it, and the fanbase would get split pretty badly. If you though Melee v. Brawl arguments were bad, imagine how that would turn out...

Also, on the topic of Melee v. Brawl, I really don't think Brawl was a bad game. I just think that Melee ***** every orifice of Brawl hardcore, and even created new orifices to ****. Brawl would be pretty good if it wasn't constantly being compared to Melee.

As for more characters... I don't trust Nintendo to manage even a remote amount of balance with that, even with patches. Obviously I hope for some new characters, but there should be a limit. On a related note, that picture made me imagine Haruhi and Konata in Smash. If this ever happens, I will cry tears of joy for days on end.

Anyway, the OP made some very good points (SSF4 for the 3DS, for example), and if someone in Nintendo is smart enough to realize this, there is hope for the future. Really though, I would just be happy if they re-released Melee with good online play. (Loved the part on acceptable online play, btw). As for single-player vs. multiplayer content... well, do I even need to say it? Multiplayer is infinitely more important.

Anyway, if Nintendo f*cks up with SSB4, then that just means P:M will have less competition. Aaaaah, if only that were the competitive standard. Smash fans should freakin' campaign to get Nintendo to try to make SSB4 be as good as Melee, lol. At the very least send angry letters.
 

Gamegenie222

Space Pheasant Dragon Tactician
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
6,758
Location
Omaha, Nebraska
NNID
Gamegenie222
3DS FC
3411-1825-3363
I agree almost entirely with the OP. However, I don't think it should be a yearly thing. CoD can get away with it, because it doesn't really require players to master techskills, and isn't expected to implement new gameplay elements. Smash, on the other hand, couldn't manage it, and the fanbase would get split pretty badly. If you though Melee v. Brawl arguments were bad, imagine how that would turn out...

Also, on the topic of Melee v. Brawl, I really don't think Brawl was a bad game. I just think that Melee ***** every orifice of Brawl hardcore, and even created new orifices to ****. Brawl would be pretty good if it wasn't constantly being compared to Melee.

As for more characters... I don't trust Nintendo to manage even a remote amount of balance with that, even with patches. Obviously I hope for some new characters, but there should be a limit. On a related note, that picture made me imagine Haruhi and Konata in Smash. If this ever happens, I will cry tears of joy for days on end.

Anyway, the OP made some very good points (SSF4 for the 3DS, for example), and if someone in Nintendo is smart enough to realize this, there is hope for the future. Really though, I would just be happy if they re-released Melee with good online play. (Loved the part on acceptable online play, btw). As for single-player vs. multiplayer content... well, do I even need to say it? Multiplayer is infinitely more important.

Anyway, if Nintendo f*cks up with SSB4, then that just means P:M will have less competition. Aaaaah, if only that were the competitive standard. Smash fans should freakin' campaign to get Nintendo to try to make SSB4 be as good as Melee, lol. At the very least send angry letters.
I would love to see that.
 
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
7,190
I like how this was written and presented, seemed indy-professional, for lack of a better term.

Teran is just trolling you guys.
 

Teran

Through Fire, Justice is Served
Super Moderator
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
37,167
Location
Beastector HQ
3DS FC
3540-0079-4988
Right of course I'm trolling yup uhuh.

Oh look I'll say something that isn't going to sit well with all the posters, obviously trolling.

People asked for nationalised health care, obviously trolling!

People disagreed with slavery in the old days, obviously trolls!

Martin Luther King was just doing it for the lulz!

Honestly, have you ever noticed how just because something is the majority belief doesn't make it necessarily right?
 

Spelt

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 6, 2009
Messages
11,841
Disagree with most of this, because Smash isn't a competitive fighter.
TL;DR, but this would most likely be how I feel about it too...

And i know this is just 20 paragraphs of "I want smash 4 to be Melee ... but melee-er"
 

Falconv1.0

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Messages
3,511
Location
Talking **** in Cali
Right of course I'm trolling yup uhuh.

Oh look I'll say something that isn't going to sit well with all the posters, obviously trolling.

People asked for nationalised health care, obviously trolling!

People disagreed with slavery in the old days, obviously trolls!

Martin Luther King was just doing it for the lulz!

Honestly, have you ever noticed how just because something is the majority belief doesn't make it necessarily right?
Teran, seriously stop trolling. It got old years ago, that's why user blogs is nothing but quality discussion now.

...wait what.
 

Sucumbio

Smash Chachacha
Moderator
Writing Team
Joined
Oct 7, 2008
Messages
8,447
Location
wahwahweewah
I was under the impression there wasn't even going to be a 4th game, at least one with Sakurai involved. I think the sheer amount of complaints about Brawl were enough to make anyone at Nintendo cringe at the thought of making another installment. Though I for one have thoroughly enjoyed it, there are several improvements I'd love to see if there was indeed another one released, mainly a better online mode. Since I'm not terribly familiar with Melee I don't necessarily feel all the pains that most of the posters on the board feel when playing Brawl, so really my only "complaint" would have to be the online aspect, and for that it was mainly just the lag, and to a lesser degree the spamming/taunt parties. Had there been some way to join serious matches, with items off and 8 minute timer and 3 stocks, etc... things like that... it'd have been much better. 2 min matches items on and any stage, it gets a little boring after awhile, because you're not really... fighting so much as you are just doing the crazy-wacky Brawl thing, which is kinda, well fun for a while but frustrating if you want a serious match.
 

SolarSkurge

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 31, 2011
Messages
340
Location
Paducah KY, Southern IL
I have very mixed feelings on this. Seeing that Melee had AT's that brawl didn't, and vice versa, what would be the outcome of this? I couldn't imagine...momentum wave dashing..? I don;t know. This would be the only reason to buy a wii 2 then..for now.
 

Falconv1.0

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Messages
3,511
Location
Talking **** in Cali
I was under the impression there wasn't even going to be a 4th game, at least one with Sakurai involved. I think the sheer amount of complaints about Brawl were enough to make anyone at Nintendo cringe at the thought of making another installment.
I'm pretty sure I've seen more complaints about CoD being 'just another shooter' and **** like that, they're still rolling in money. Why the **** would Nintendo stop making a rather successful game just because some people complained, especially seeing how most of the complaints are from the 'competitive community', and that's what one could call a minority.

The way you're talking really makes me wonder how strong your grip on reality is. I mean, really, you think they'd have second thoughts about making it because some mother****ers complained?
 
Top Bottom