Social Spoon Sword Social

[Igzex]

I rejoice for it's the anniversary of our savior's creation.

 

[ThePsychoWolf]

Spoiler

I'm back! Anyhow, you weren't too far from the truth. While I didn't necessarily get any busier, I did get wrapped up in other leisure activities. My weekdays are pretty hectic right now, and I've been prioritizing playing video games over talking about them. I don't see that really changing any time soon, but I'll try to be on here for just a few minutes every day from now on. I will, however, attempt to be on SmashBoards pretty frequently on weekends. That should be much more manageable.

Also, happy birthday, Mewtwo! *blows party horn and throws confetti* You're officially 20 years old! Woo-hoo!

So, today was the first chance I got to use the 2 new DLC characters, and I must say that Corrin impressed me quite a bit. She feels like a natural fit for me, and I'm heavily considering picking her up as my first serious secondary. Corrin obviously can't dethrone Mewtwo as my main, but she's still a lot of fun to play as. She has very stylish, fun-to-look-at attacks, as well. Oh, and, in case you couldn't tell by my choice of pronoun, I prefer female Corrin to her male counterpart. As with Robin, I feel as though the female version got the superior palette swaps. Corrin's orange and pink colorations are probably my favorites, and I really like how her draconic form's color scheme changes to match her palette swap. That's a very nice touch, in my opinion.

To me, Bayonetta is just alright. I don't find her particularly fun to play as, but she's certainly a unique addition to the roster. She's just not for me, is all. I will say that her Final Smash is totally awesome, however. Gotta love Gomorrah! Also, I quite like Umbra Clock Tower. It's an impressive-looking stage, and I like watching Fortitudo and all of the angels fly around in the background as I fight my opponent, all while free-falling hundreds of feet per second off a cliff.

And Mewtwo has apparently has maid fetish. Who would have guessed?

Thank you! It's great to be back!

She is calling you to secondary her. Do it. Come to the Dark (Nohr?) Side.

 

[Foxy Alopex]

Here's another birthday pic for Mewtwo.

 

[Murlough]

It will likely only be banned if people either don't give it a chance, or they adopt an ultra conservative stage list consisting of only the known tried and true basics, which a lot do. I think Umbra Clock Tower should definitely be legal as a counter pick if Castle Siege and Halberd are.

I like Peach's Castle 64 too. I wonder why that was never considered as at least a counter pick stage. I can understand Hyrule because it's too big.

I think it had to do with the Cathedral area being a spot for characters to camp so if they get launched 80% of the time they can just tech and last forever.

That and the tornadoes randomly performing divine intervention.

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

That feel when I'm able to beat Classic on 9.0 with a lot of characters on the first try, but I still have to take a few attempts as Mewtwo even though he's my main. ;_;

The only character left is Mii Brawler...which I'll do when Mewtwo shows up in the gold icon during the difficulty screen. For some reason, Corrin is the one showing up when Mewtwo has the highest score for Classic mode...

 

[Krysco]

That feel when I'm able to beat Classic on 9.0 with a lot of characters on the first try, but I still have to take a few attempts as Mewtwo even though he's my main. ;_;

The only character left is Mii Brawler...which I'll do when Mewtwo shows up in the gold icon during the difficulty screen. For some reason, Corrin is the one showing up when Mewtwo has the highest score for Classic mode...

I know the pain. Was able to do Classic 9.0 with most characters just fine but trying to do it with my at-the-time main took forever. Having a low damage per hit rate against the boss gauntlet is awful.

 

[Nairo]

SmashWiki is dumb in general.

They have Nairo listed as a notable Lucina player. LMAO.

Maybe that is a sign that Lucina users need to come out and do a little work lolol

 

[Deleted member]

Maybe that is a sign that Lucina users need to come out and do a little work lolol

NOTICE ME NAIRO-SENPAI

But yeah, pretty much. I can't name one single actual solo Lucina main that does work. There was Ryo who secondaried her, but it looks like he's replaced her with Corrin.

 

[420quickscoper]

NOTICE ME NAIRO-SENPAI

But yeah, pretty much. I can't name one single actual solo Lucina main that does work. There was Ryo who secondaried her, but it looks like he's replaced her with Corrin.

Probably because there's no reason to pick Lucina over Marth, as far as I'm concerned.

Maybe that is a sign that Lucina users need to come out and do a little work lolol

What Lucina users? I can't see them.

 

[Sensane]

Lucina apparently got more range in some of her moves. Wow; first they're able to affect stats, now they're able to adjust range? This balance team never fails to amaze me.

Also, hey Nairo how was alpharad able to learn those "advanced zero suit combos"?

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

Balance team did a good job balancing the top tiers this time around. Their core moveset wasn't negatively altered
(like Greninja's nerf long ago), but some of the options that pushed them over the limit were made into more rounded-out moves.
The nerfs given: Rosalina is now the 3rd lightest character in the game, Sheik's Vanish has a smaller hitbox and less KBG, Zero Suit's Boost Kick is not able to KO at super low percents anymore. Sonic... I think his weight nerf isn't going to be as negative to him as Rosalina's will be, and that he may still need more balancing, but I don't know for sure. (Yes, Sensane, on second thought you're totally right.)
Hopefully this change is enough to make the top tiers more manageable now. Also, the buff is awesome.

 

[Sensane]

Sonic... I think his weight nerf isn't going to be as negative to him as Rosalina's will be, and that he may still need more balancing, but I don't know for sure.

Don't even say that Sonic needs more nerfs; they nerfed his back throw, his u-smash, the damage of his spin dash, and they nerfed his forward smash twice, yet for some reason Ness and Mario have been almost completely untouched throughout the entire game. Sonic is fine the way he is now.

 

[DrRiceBoy]

Sonic is probably fine if we're talking about balance.

Even so, no offense to Sonic players, but he's really unfun to play against. He still needs some changes IMO. Doesn't necessarily have to be nerfs, just... changes.

 

[Sensane]

Oh, that's fair; even some Sonic mains don't like fighting in Sonic dittos.

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

Since weight change is confirmed, Mewtwo can at least be made a little more heavy! I hate dying at low percentages on the Wii U Classic Mode at 9.0.

 

[Murlough]

Since weight change is confirmed, Mewtwo can at least be made a little more heavy! I hate dying at low percentages on the Wii U Classic Mode at 9.0.

They most likely aren't buffing our weight. They seem dead set on keeping Mewtwo as much of a glass cannon as possible.


If they do though I sure won't complain.

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

Last night, I was playing Classic Mode on 9.0 on Wii U. Was on Duck Hunt stage, and down to last character which was Dark Pit. He dodged every single attack, and I was very close to losing my last life. He summoned Arceus, dodged my attack, and down smashed me with the second hit off the stage. Arceus used Gravity, but I somehow DI'd to the side of the stage and teched the wall to survive that meteor. I then proceed to teleport back on stage. I wish I could have recorded my survival because that was probably the best survival I've made. Then after beating Dark Pit, I lost on the next stage.

 

[U-Throw]

I agree that Umbra Clock Tower can be somewhat distracting at times. I think that, in addition to the angels in the background and all of the shaking, the fact that the stage extends farther into the Z-axis than it does into either of the 2D axises makes it rather distracting, too. It kinda makes it hard to tell exactly which part of the clock you're fighting on. That said, I do think it should be legal. Aside from being visually distracting, I don't think I've come across anything objectionable.

As for Mewtwo's weight, I don't really mind it. It is frustrating to die at such low percentages, but I like the power and mobility that we get in return. It makes Mewtwo more fun to play as, in my opinion. That said, I wouldn't be upset if Mewtwo got a small weight buff of some kind. Every little bit counts.

Also, after a little bit of thinking, I decided to make Corrin my first serious secondary! Yay!

 

[DrRiceBoy]

My mom's best friend's 6 year old son came to my house the other day. They're from Virginia and came to visit for a few weeks. He likes Smash a lot and hogs my Wii U.

He has superb taste. His favorite is Mewtwo. I'm quite proud of him.

 

[Aninymouse]

NOTICE ME NAIRO-SENPAI

But yeah, pretty much. I can't name one single actual solo Lucina main that does work. There was Ryo who secondaried her, but it looks like he's replaced her with Corrin.

There was Brolylegs, but I haven't seen or heard of him seriously playing Smash 4 in a really long time. It could be anything: health problems, lack of interest, change in lifestyle, increased focus on Street Fighter... who knows.

 

[420quickscoper]

My mom's best friend's 6 year old son came to my house the other day. They're from Virginia and came to visit for a few weeks. He likes Smash a lot and hogs my Wii U.

He has superb taste. His favorite is Mewtwo. I'm quite proud of him.

One of us.
Yes... very good...

I hope he one day grows up to be a huge down tilt spammer that we all ar- I didn't say that.

 

[Krysco]

Oof, lots of little topics hopping around to comment on.

Lucina needs a quality of life change. Dr. Mario is slow, strong Mario with a completely different down b and dair and an usmash that sends at a radically different angle. Pills aren't energy and behave differently, he has differences. Dark Pit has less flexible arrows, an ftilt that jab locks rather than kill at high percent and...a ridiculous side b. Lucina has everything Marth does, frame for frame but without potential tipper power and less platform pressure since she's shorter. Marth's moves work with how he plays. He wants to keep you out just enough so that you're in his tipper range. Lucina just wants to hit you, she doesn't give a **** where. Sure, the tip of her sword is the safest but in terms of her overall reward, she doesn't care. Give her faster moves or faster movement. She should be able to play more aggro than Marth since she isn't trying to use precision. Just my thoughts~

For Sonic, it doesn't matter what the buff/nerf would be but I think we'd all be a lot happier (except maybe Sonic users) if Sonic didn't need to rely on spindash or whatever his side b is called so much. Either buff him elsewhere so he doesn't need to use it so much or nerf it to the point of uselessness. Probably not gonna happen though since he is viable and as mentioned before, they have nerfed him numerous times already. Still not fun to fight.

The Classic 9.0 thing reminds me of a FG dubs match I had where a Ganon daired me as MK and I teched the wall right next to the blastzone and made it back. Was glorious.

My sister has Mewtwo, the only dlc character I believe she has. I don't believe she uses him too often but she likes to fight him. She calls his neutral b and Lucario's 'power ball' for whatever reason. She likes Lucario, Bowser and Zard so she's like me, enjoying power although she hates Ganon xD

Oh and yeah, Umbra Clock Tower is distracting beyond belief. But so was Lylat when it was first introduced to us and now it's fine. It's also not as bad as FD and it's damn blinding light.

Think that was every topic I wanted to reply to. And thanks to that, this post is a scrambled mess and 7 paragraphs long! I need to stop posting right after work...

 

[meleebrawler]

Too bad Roy stormed in at the last second and swiped the potential "aggro Marth" position from Lucina.

 

[U-Throw]

I mean, Lucina is supposed to be a "beginner Marth", right? To me, that means that the transition from Lucina to Marth should be as easy as possible. In order to realize that, I think that almost all of their frame-data, attacks, and mobility options should be shared; just remove Marth's tipper, balance Lucina's damage output and the shield-push on her attacks accordingly, and be done with it. Normally, I don't encourage keeping clones as similar as possible, but since Lucina was designed to be an easier-to-pick-up version of Marth, I made an exception for her. It's an interesting niche, in my opinion. I would think that Lucina could be properly balanced simply by giving her additional shield-push on her attacks, so as to allow her to actually benefit from having a relatively reckless playstyle, and maybe some extra damage, as well. That way, Lucina remains similar to Marth while also having her own playstyle and being balanced. I'm no balancing expert, though. And, as always, this is just my opinion.

Also, I personally think it would be pretty cool if hitting with the tip of Lucina's sword made a unique sound effect play. That way, you could get an even better feel for Marth while using her.

 

[Sensane]

For Sonic, it doesn't matter what the buff/nerf would be but I think we'd all be a lot happier (except maybe Sonic users) if Sonic didn't need to rely on spindash or whatever his side b is called so much. Either buff him elsewhere so he doesn't need to use it so much or nerf it to the point of uselessness. Probably not gonna happen though since he is viable and as mentioned before, they have nerfed him numerous times already. Still not fun to fight.

I main Sonic and I don't rely on spin dashes as much as I rely on.....everything else, but I see what you're saying. I say fix is u-smash and maybe decrease the startup and endlag. That would make me a very happy person. But I would also like them to buff his f-throw and make it a viable kill throw. It deals a good amount of damage, but I would like them to increase the KBG so that it kills earlier and maybe change the angle so that it's harder to DI.

 

[Krysco]

Beginner Marth would be cool if Marth was hard to use. Give us beginner Ryu, Bayo, Peach or Olimar and I'd understand. Plus being a 'beginner' version of another character basically spells doom for the character in question. Lucina was actually my first main in the 3DS days since I liked Marth's playstyle in the previous titles but was too lazy to learn tipper ranges. Then I learned how to use Marth better, then I realized Marth was mediocre and not as much fun as other characters and he went to the sidelines as just a character I can use. I'm sure others have similar situations. Start with Lucina then abandon her forever for Marth since there's no benefit to using her. At least Dark Pit has notable differences and both Pits are useful.

I don't play many Sonics or watch many (yay for FG sucking and not caring to watch tournaments) but I doubt at the very top level he actually over relies on side b and down b. It's the lower levels where it's used in abundance but then so is Charizard side b and Kirby down b. An amusing thought just popped into my head, switch the properties of Sonic's and D3's side bs. Sonic gets stopped by a simple jab while gordos become incredibly hard to hit...FG would become more hell than it already is. Heck, that was the reason for the gordo nerf way back when I think.

 

[Smashifer]

Lucina needs a quality of life change. Dr. Mario is slow, strong Mario with a completely different down b and dair and an usmash that sends at a radically different angle. Pills aren't energy and behave differently, he has differences. Dark Pit has less flexible arrows, an ftilt that jab locks rather than kill at high percent and...a ridiculous side b. Lucina has everything Marth does, frame for frame but without potential tipper power and less platform pressure since she's shorter. Marth's moves work with how he plays. He wants to keep you out just enough so that you're in his tipper range. Lucina just wants to hit you, she doesn't give a **** where. Sure, the tip of her sword is the safest but in terms of her overall reward, she doesn't care. Give her faster moves or faster movement. She should be able to play more aggro than Marth since she isn't trying to use precision. Just my thoughts~

This!! Lucina was one of my first mains alongside Lucario back when I first got the game, and since then she's been... well, on and off. Sometimes I have the urge to play as her and other times I look at her and wonder what she could've been. Honestly, when Corrin was announced and I saw his/her moveset, I knew it was just downhill for Lucina from there (even more so from where she already was). I really liked her and her character, and Laura Bailey is <3333
There's also this picture that I really, really love:

She's just so adorable with it!! I knew she was a clone of Marth but I didn't care. I didn't care... until I noticed how much it hindered her.

Lucina has everything Marth does, frame for frame but without potential tipper power and less platform pressure since she's shorter.

It only sucks more now since this is possibly the last patch we'll get, meaning no more chances at redemption. I want to see potential, I want to see her placing in tournaments, but... ugh, it's just too much.

Now she'll never be seen as anything more than "Easy-Mode Marth".
feelsbadman.jpg

 

[Aninymouse]

I'm not wanting to sound mean, but all of you sound like parrots. Lucina had relevant differences to Marth even before 1.1.4, it's just that since so few people care about Marth or Lucina, they are uninformed. One of those differences was that Lucina has a true combo into Fsmash, arguably her best kill move on-stage, while Marth didn't.

But let's disregard the past for now. In 1.1.4, Lucina has even more differences to Marth. The following video is not mine. It has a salt-inducing ending, too. But watch and be amazed that Lucina has a half dozen 3-hit true combos that all deal around 33%:

1.1.4 has only been out for a few days. More things will undoubtedly be found in the future.

No, Lucina is not "beginner Marth" anymore, if she ever was. This meme needs to be quashed.

 

[Murlough]

I agree. It's like saying Pichu was beginner Pikachu. (In a way.......shaaaaddap)

Lucina isn't beginner Marth. Why do people say that? "Because you don't have to worry about landing tippers with her."
.
.
.
Ok first of all, anyone who says landing tippers is hard needs more practice. I don't main Marth but when I use him for fun I land tippers left and right. It isn't a super challenging thing that requires the need for a "Beginner" version of a character.

Second, Lucina and Marth don't play the same. So starting off with "beginner Marth" will not yield success when switching over to "advanced Marth."

Anywho I don't know why I am discussing this when I really don't care. Must be too tired.

 

[Krysco]

Except they do play the same. Same frame data, same movement specs (although I do recall seeing a video where someone made use of the amiibo glitch or a wavebird to show that they have different initial dashes) and no drastically different moves. Doc makes more use of sh bair due to his lower short hop and has to put in more work to approach and recover. Dark Pit doesn't pester his opponent as much with arrows and can use his ftilt for slightly different reasons and thanks to a patch, wants to fish for side b far more than Pit for early kills.

Lucina wants to use the tip of her sword as much as possible. It's safer in case she whiffs and she lacks the frame data of those with less range so she wants to keep them out. She doesn't get the reward Marth does though. In return, she's punished less for not landing with her tip compared to Marth.

She may get more off combos and in general she racks damage up faster than Marth but killing is a bigger issue for her and she's still tied to the same frame and movement data. She may not be beginner Marth but she is a variant of him just as the other two clones are variants of Mario and Pit. She ironically has the most differences (every move) but they matter the least in terms of viability and differentiating her from her original.

But what do I know, I'm some random on Smashboards~

---

And if this topic is not to the likings of the others who frequent here (this is the Mewtwo social after all, not the Marth or Lucina ones) then toss up any ol' topic to change the pace of things! Here, I'll even toss one up myself!

Anyone find it weird how Mewtwo still has it where when he fully charges Shadow Ball, he sits in a charged animation? Samus, doesn't, DK doesn't, Mario doesn't. Sheik used to back in Melee for some reason but not anymore. Lucario does for the charging hitbox and Mewtwo used to have the same reason but now that's gone. Like, whatever frame data is behind charging Shadow Ball, you have to add either roll or shield and then an out of shield option to the end of that since you can't just charge and then be on your way like Samus and DK.

 

[Murlough]

I never noticed before to be completely honest.

I wish Mewtwo had that hitbox while charging like in melee. Those fancy Lucario tricks with Aura sphere are too cool looking and I'm jealous.

 

[DrRiceBoy]

I don't really have anything to add, but as a Marth main this discussion pleases me. (◕‿◕✿)

 

[Aninymouse]

Lucina has a very similar toolkit to Marth, but to say she plays the same is an oversimplification. You can play Lucina like Marth, yes, but her different damage percents and lack of sweetspot means a couple things: first, Lucina, as I showed you, is able to pull off different combos than Marth can as tippers totally **** with combo ability due to their high knockback; two, Lucina's moves are less safe on shield than Marth tippers but have strong "sourspots" (Marth's sourspots; Lucina has no true sourspots other than non-meteor Dair).

This means that while Marth's attacks are safer on shield, he has less combo ability. This was true even before 1.1.4. Even when Marth utilizes sourspots to combo, his combos deal less damage than Lucina combos. Marth can kill earlier due to tippers, but Lucina can hit with Roy-range kill moves and still get the full power.

I do think that Marth is overall better than Lucina, as earlier kills and safer on shield are better perks to have than more combo potential, normally. Even so, when Lucina can kill confirm, Marth can't always do so. So while Marth is theoretically better, Lucina is able to differentiate herself by utilizing different strings and kill setups.

But yes, as Murlough said, "training wheels Marth" does not hold up precisely because playing as Lucina does not make you a better Marth player. Playing as Marth does that.

 

[Krysco]

Actually, that got me thinking, if Lucina has more combos, gets more off combos and gets more damage per hit on average, she could greatly benefit from some increased movement speed and that's it. Give her better air speed namely and possibly better ground speed, either running or walking. Let her chain even bigger combos for even more damage than Marth and let the 'balance' be Marth's tippers that can kill as early as 50(?) Won't happen though because unlike Doc and DP, the dev team is insistent on giving Lucina every buff and nerf Marth gets and nothing more.

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

Nah, ground speed and fast falling are in the department.
Here's how I'd make Lucina different.
1. Shield Breaker aerial propulsion is much greater, but can't break shields while in the air.
2. Horizontal aerial movement speed increased, in turn weight is lowered slightly.
3. Down air has a larger spike box, but less knockback growth.
4. Down Smash always has flat knockback.
5. Dash attack is faster but deals less damage.

 

[Krysco]

Nah, ground speed and fast falling are in the department.
Here's how I'd make Lucina different.
1. Shield Breaker aerial propulsion is much greater, but can't break shields while in the air.
2. Horizontal aerial movement speed increased, in turn weight is lowered slightly.
3. Down air has a larger spike box, but less knockback growth.
4. Down Smash always has flat knockback.
5. Dash attack is faster but deals less damage.

Better horizontal speed is what I meant with air speed so I agree with 2. Honestly, I'd like anything that makes her more than just tipperless Marth.

 

[Aninymouse]

Nah, ground speed and fast falling are in the department.
Here's how I'd make Lucina different.
1. Shield Breaker aerial propulsion is much greater, but can't break shields while in the air.

NOOOOOOOOOOPEnopenope don't do that.

 

[Sensane]

I don't like lucina at all so anything that happens to her has no effect on me lol.

 

[Metros]

I never noticed before to be completely honest.

I wish Mewtwo had that hitbox while charging like in melee. Those fancy Lucario tricks with Aura sphere are too cool looking and I'm jealous.

I know right?

I've missed plenty of opportunities to tack on more damage which could have resulted in taking a stock as well in the end. I always question why they didn't put it in, it's silly. If it was in, I don't believe for a second it would make Mewtwo OP or of a high tier.

 

[Krysco]

B-but guys! If Mewtwo had charging damage he'd be a clone of Lucario! Oh wait...he already is...in the minds of the foolish.

Or Orokana as Japanese Mewtwo says. Speaking of which, I've been debating saving up a bit to get a Japanese copy of Sm4sh. Not sure if it'd work in my American Wii U but if it does that'd be awesome. Prefer a lot of the Japanese voices over the English ones.