[SPOILER ALERT] - The Sevens Squares. - A Square-Enix general support threads.

[OptimisticStrifer]

It has nothing to do with time of release a d more to do with providing the blueprint for nearly every game in the genre. DQ3 was revolutionary.


No one should buy something that they're unaware of the contents in said item. That is the gamble you take.

I was aware of the Joker. If Eldrick is in; Nintendo took my good faith in them and bashed it.

 

[-Coco-]

.

I was aware of the Joker. If Eldrick is in; Nintendo took my good faith in them and bashed it.

No they didn't because you made a decision to buy something while being unaware of the contents. That's on you. If you want my opinion, I refuse to buy passes on principal.

 

[FLGibsonIII]

I think it's clear that the dlc is aimed at the Japanese so far. I think joker appealing to the west was purely convenient. Eldrick would 100% be a japanese focused pick. The grinch leak has been described by some Japanese smash fans (before its deconfirmation) as foreigners wish fulfillment. We think the western market is the primary target, but I get the vibe from the Japanese fans that they think the western market is a secondary priority compared to the japanese market. Sakurai made some appeals to westerners with Ridley, k rool, and castlevania, but it seems with isabelle, incineroar, and all the dlc nintendo is prioritizing the Japanese market. I have a feeling the rest of the dlc will continue to target japanese audiences. Maybe it's because NOJ is in charge of the characters instead of sakurai, but I feel that people should temper their expectations of a western focused dlc character.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

I think it's clear that the dlc is aimed at the Japanese so far. I think joker appealing to the west was purely convenient. Eldrick would 100% be a japanese focused pick. The grinch leak has been described by some Japanese smash fans (before its deconfirmation) as foreigners wish fulfillment. We think the western market is the primary target, but I get the vibe from the Japanese fans that they think the western market is a secondary priority compared to the japanese market. Sakurai made some appeals to westerners with Ridley, k rool, and castlevania, but it seems with isabelle, incineroar, and all the dlc nintendo is prioritizing the Japanese market. I have a feeling the rest of the dlc will continue to target japanese audiences. Maybe it's because NOJ is in charge of the characters instead of sakurai, but I feel that people should temper their expectations of a western focused dlc character.

That would be a monumentally idiotic business decision for Nintendo; and I'd HIGHLY doubt they'd do that. You get the most money out of pleasing EVERYONE. I don't think we'll get any pure western or eastern pandering.

 

[FLGibsonIII]

That would be a monumentally idiotic business decision for Nintendo; and I'd HIGHLY doubt they'd do that. You get the most money out of pleasing EVERYONE. I don't think we'll get any pure western or eastern pandering.

I think it's a bad business decision too, but that is irrelevant. Eldrick is 100% eastern focused dlc. He could be an exception, but all I am saying is dont be surprised if we get another eastern focused character or two. If they already did it once why couldn't they do it again?

 

[Icewolff92]

I think it's clear that the dlc is aimed at the Japanese so far. I think joker appealing to the west was purely convenient. Eldrick would 100% be a japanese focused pick. The grinch leak has been described by some Japanese smash fans (before its deconfirmation) as foreigners wish fulfillment. We think the western market is the primary target, but I get the vibe from the Japanese fans that they think the western market is a secondary priority compared to the japanese market. Sakurai made some appeals to westerners with Ridley, k rool, and castlevania, but it seems with isabelle, incineroar, and all the dlc nintendo is prioritizing the Japanese market. I have a feeling the rest of the dlc will continue to target japanese audiences. Maybe it's because NOJ is in charge of the characters instead of sakurai, but I feel that people should temper their expectations of a western focused dlc character.

While I would argue that Persona is something that is hyped WW, but I get what you are saying, and unfortunately, you have a point in that(NoJ listen often more with the Japanese audience then Western even though I don't like to think about it). Just watch the rest be Steve (which is the most downloaded game in Japan on E3s Eshop), FE TH rep and Adeline on top of Ederick xD LOL

 

[ZelDan]

Honestly, bashing DQ over having an awful person attached it it seems silly and unfair to me. Many of these gaming companies or AAA publishers/developers have hundreds of people working for them, so it's pretty likely that many if not all companies probably also have some...very disagreebale people to them. Whether it be Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, Ubisoft, Valve, Capcom, etc etc. Granted, some of these people in question might not make as much money as Sugiyama does, but that doesn't stop the fact that other businesses probably support dickweeds to some extent as well.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

I think it's clear that the dlc is aimed at the Japanese so far. I think joker appealing to the west was purely convenient. Eldrick would 100% be a japanese focused pick. The grinch leak has been described by some Japanese smash fans (before its deconfirmation) as foreigners wish fulfillment. We think the western market is the primary target, but I get the vibe from the Japanese fans that they think the western market is a secondary priority compared to the japanese market. Sakurai made some appeals to westerners with Ridley, k rool, and castlevania, but it seems with isabelle, incineroar, and all the dlc nintendo is prioritizing the Japanese market. I have a feeling the rest of the dlc will continue to target japanese audiences. Maybe it's because NOJ is in charge of the characters instead of sakurai, but I feel that people should temper their expectations of a western focused dlc character.

This seems like a misstep, to be honest. If they're going to appeal to specific markets it should be in the base game. It seems a stretch to expect to sell extra content up to half the price of the base game and only appeal to one market among many.

Honestly, bashing DQ over having an awful person attached it it seems silly and unfair to me. Many of these gaming companies or AAA publishers/developers have hundreds of people working for them, so it's pretty likely that many if not all companies probably also have some...very disagreebale people to them. Whether it be Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, Ubisoft, Valve, Capcom, etc etc. Granted, some of these people in question might not make as much money as Sugiyama does, but that doesn't stop the fact that other businesses probably support dickweeds to some extent as well.

Personal politics are always going to factor into a purchasing decision, and they absolutely should. Nobody at a company is owed your money, if absolutely anything is a dealbreaker for you then that's perfectly fair, as it's YOUR money.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Steve

>Steve
>Japan-focused.

Pardoneme?

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

>Steve
>Japan-focused.

Pardoneme?

Steve would be a purely business focused decision.

 

[StormC]

I think it's clear that the dlc is aimed at the Japanese so far. I think joker appealing to the west was purely convenient. Eldrick would 100% be a japanese focused pick. The grinch leak has been described by some Japanese smash fans (before its deconfirmation) as foreigners wish fulfillment. We think the western market is the primary target, but I get the vibe from the Japanese fans that they think the western market is a secondary priority compared to the japanese market. Sakurai made some appeals to westerners with Ridley, k rool, and castlevania, but it seems with isabelle, incineroar, and all the dlc nintendo is prioritizing the Japanese market. I have a feeling the rest of the dlc will continue to target japanese audiences. Maybe it's because NOJ is in charge of the characters instead of sakurai, but I feel that people should temper their expectations of a western focused dlc character.

You act like Isabelle and Incineroar are complete unknowns in the west.

There is literally no way to tell after one character that DLC is "aimed at the Japanese."

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Reminder that the proper way to spell the DQ Hero's name is Erdrick.

This seems like a misstep, to be honest. If they're going to appeal to specific markets it should be in the base game. It seems a stretch to expect to sell extra content up to half the price of the base game and only appeal to one market among many.


Personal politics are always going to factor into a purchasing decision, and they absolutely should. Nobody at a company is owed your money, if absolutely anything is a dealbreaker for you then that's perfectly fair, as it's YOUR money.

Well, its up to the buyer to decide if the dlc is a worth the price there paying. Sure some characters may be niche, but there are many people that decide to buy a character for other reasons besides being recognizable to them. "Hey there moveset looks cool" "I just want a complete roster no matter who's included" etc.

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

"I just want a complete roster no matter who's included" etc.

From what I see, a lot of Smash fans share this mentality myself included. Bring on even Steve and I'll throw down the $6.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

Reminder that the proper way to spell the DQ Hero's name is Erdrick.


Well, its up to the buyer to decide if the dlc is a worth the price there paying. Sure some characters may be niche, but there are many people that decide to buy a character for other reasons besides being recognizable to them. "Hey there moveset looks cool" "I just want a complete roster no matter who's included" etc.

Absolutely. But you incentivize a purchase by appealing to a demographic. To get the widest margin of sales, you appeal to multiple demographics or the widest possible demographic. Banking on the "people will buy the DLC no matter what" angle seems foolish.

From what I see, a lot of Smash fans share this mentality myself included. Bring on even Steve and I'll throw down the $6.

This kind of mentality only gives a company license to put the minimal effort into appealing to it's fans. If you're already resigned to giving them free money they will take full advantage of that. Far be it from me to dictate your purchasing decisions, however. You do what you want with your money. But at the very least I would advise some manner of discretion.

 

[ZelDan]

This seems like a misstep, to be honest. If they're going to appeal to specific markets it should be in the base game. It seems a stretch to expect to sell extra content up to half the price of the base game and only appeal to one market among many.


Personal politics are always going to factor into a purchasing decision, and they absolutely should. Nobody at a company is owed your money, if absolutely anything is a dealbreaker for you then that's perfectly fair, as it's YOUR money.

I mean, yeah, I'm not exactly saying people HAVE to buy Erdrick or a DQ characters if they do indeed end up in Smash Bros, unless they already bought the fighter's pass, in which case, maybe you shouldn't have bought the fighter's pass so hastily if there are characters that could have potentially made it in that sickened you so much?

I'm just making the point that other companies out there very likely have their "Sugiyamas" as well, just with the benefit that their bad eggs keep their mouths shut.

 

[Icewolff92]

>Steve
>Japan-focused.

Pardoneme?

If you saw what I wrote, you would have seen that I pointed out that Minecraft was the most downloaded game on the Eshop over at Japan which technically would make him sort of Japanese centric in a way since most Smash player here in west would prefer Banjo & Kazooie over him

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

From what I see, a lot of Smash fans share this mentality myself included. Bring on even Steve and I'll throw down the $6.

I mean, yeah, I'm not exactly saying people HAVE to buy Erdrick or a DQ characters if they do indeed end up in Smash Bros, unless they already bought the fighter's pass, in which case, maybe you shouldn't have bought the fighter's pass so hastily if there are characters that could have potentially made it in that sickened you so much?

I'm just making the point that other companies out there very likely have their "Sugiyamas" as well, just with the benefit that their bad eggs keep their mouths shut.

One can reasonably assume that a company has bad eggs, but until the information becomes public, we generally have no choice but to give them the benefit of the doubt, but once knowledge of a thing becomes apparent, it can never go away, and that can permanently change one's perception of a product. You can't make purchasing decisions on maybes. (unless you buy a season pass for un-revealed DLC)

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

If you saw what I wrote, you would have seen that I pointed out that Minecraft was the most downloaded game on the Eshop over at Japan which technically would make him sort of Japanese centric in a way since most Smash player here in west would prefer Banjo & Kazooie over him

You're really implying that Minecraft would mainly be catering only to Japan?

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

>Steve
>Japan-focused.

Pardoneme?

Minecraft is very popular in Japan from what I understand. Then again, it's popular worldwide, so Steve would be a good choice.

Steve would be a purely business focused decision.

Source? Steve is surprisingly well requested outside of forums like these.

I think it's clear that the dlc is aimed at the Japanese so far. I think joker appealing to the west was purely convenient. Eldrick would 100% be a japanese focused pick. The grinch leak has been described by some Japanese smash fans (before its deconfirmation) as foreigners wish fulfillment. We think the western market is the primary target, but I get the vibe from the Japanese fans that they think the western market is a secondary priority compared to the japanese market. Sakurai made some appeals to westerners with Ridley, k rool, and castlevania, but it seems with isabelle, incineroar, and all the dlc nintendo is prioritizing the Japanese market. I have a feeling the rest of the dlc will continue to target japanese audiences. Maybe it's because NOJ is in charge of the characters instead of sakurai, but I feel that people should temper their expectations of a western focused dlc character.

You're kind of on the mark, but fall short of it. Smash Bros. has always had characters that appeal more towards Japanese audiences, with a token Western pick in recent releases (Little Mac for Sm4sh, Ridley for Ultimate).

While people may think DLC should appeal to everyone, and in theory that's correct, appealing to specific markets using focused DLC reveals has the largest potential to draw in new players, reinvigorate interest in the game, and drive sales of new consoles, games, and fighters.

People in Japan will pay money for a Switch, Dragon Quest XI S, and Smash Bros. with the Fighters Pass because Dragon Quest is just that big. This is especially important given how Nintendo competes with only Sony in Japan, and has a chance to overtake them with the Switch the way it is.

Kids everywhere will beg their parents for a Switch and/or a copy of Smash Bros. because Minecraft Steve is in it, and a prominent audience for Smash Bros., young adults to middle age, are at the point where Minecraft is nostalgic for them, and will buy Steve because of that.

Some focused, calculated risks to expand and break into new markets aren't bad business decisions. That being said, a majority of the DLC will likely be general picks such as Joker.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

Source? Steve is surprisingly well requested outside of forums like these.

If he is, I haven't personally seen any large amount of smash support until verg mentioned minecraft content in his leaks, and a later groundswell post-hitagi. Though I personally don't like steve (and I mean words cannot describe how much I despise him) I won't deny that he'd appeal to a very large amount of people.

 

[Icewolff92]

You're really implying that Minecraft would mainly be catering only to Japan?

Sort off since I would argue that Banjo & Kazooie is more requested her in the west (at least from what I've seen) but sure, I get what you are saying.

 

[MajoraMan28]

I'm not one to defend bigots, but if you're going to attack someone's character you've got to do it right.

He never called LGBTQ people abominations. He seemed to agree with a remark by Japanese politician Mio Sugita, who appeared on his show, about how tax dollars shouldn't go to gay couples, calling it "differentiation." He responded saying "it's differentiation." That could be taken as him agreeing, but it could also be taken as him following Japanese television etiquette, wherein people show they're listening by repeating words spoken by other people. Granted, I would say it's safe to assume that he's not favorable towards LGBTQ people given his conservative political stance and the fact that he had Sugita on his show in the first place, but there is no evidence for him calling LGBTQ people "abominations." It might be semantics, but I feel it's important to not over-exaggerate the truth.

He is a war crime denier though. I won't defend that.

I guess some people really don't want this topic to die huh...
I would say thanks for clearing this up, but why does being a conservative mean that one hates LGBTQ? Bc myself and a ton of people who are conservative have no problems with them.
And in the case of the composer, there hasn't been a single statement of his that I know of that he explicitly criticizes and despises LGBTQ people for who they are. This seems to be, imho, a result of pure gossip in the PC social bubble that never verifies their sources.

The one thing I'm worried about no matter what Square character we end up getting is music. I doubt anyone would want another Cloud situation where we only end up with 2 songs and not even a single remix.

Honestly, remixes are pretty overrated imo. Most of them are made with low quality MIDIs, and in the game I usually end up using the original tracks more. Melee was the only exception where the remixes were excellent across the board.

Resident Evil is actually Capcom's biggest franchise so I'm honestly surprised it isn't in Smash in some form already. Despite that, Capcom already has A TON of content in Ultimate. It has 84 spirits, 70 music tracks, 3 assist trophies, 3 characters, a boss, and major portions of the map in WoL. In comparison, Konami has 54 spirits, 45 music tracks, an item, 3 characters, 2 assist trophies, a boss, and also major map portions in WoL. SEGA has 40 spirits, 31 music tracks, 2 characters (soon to be 3), and 3 assist trophies. Namco has 5 spirits, 13 music tracks, 2 items, 1 character, and 2 assist trophies. Square has 4 spirits, 2 music tracks, and 1 character. Like I've been arguing, Namco and Square definitely have some catching up to do.

Huh, I always thought SF and Megaman were the bigger series for them.


As for Steve, anyone who remembers Shigeru Miyamoto's remarks on the game knows that it's a title that Nintendo themselves loved and admire.
There would definitely be people there pushing for it if the opportunity came up.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I guess some people really don't want this topic to die huh...
I would say thanks for clearing this up, but why does being a conservative mean that one hates LGBTQ? Bc myself and a ton of people who are conservative have no problems with them.
And in the case of the composer, there hasn't been a single statement of his that I know of that he explicitly criticizes and despises LGBTQ people for who they are. This seems to be, imho, a result of pure gossip in the PC social bubble that never verifies their sources.

Taking personal digs and identity politics out of this, it's more the fact that he had Sugita on his show in the first place. It's a show he co-hosts, so he helps choose guests, and he gave Sugita a platform for her message.

He apparently says some other damning things within the full episode, but it was only the LGBTQ statement that people latched onto. I would definitely say he's a bigot, but you are correct in that there is no source for him condemning LGBTQ people.

 

[MajoraMan28]

Taking personal digs and identity politics out of this, it's more the fact that he had Sugita on his show in the first place. It's a show he co-hosts, so he helps choose guests, and he gave Sugita a platform for her message.

He apparently says some other damning things within the full episode, but it was only the LGBTQ statement that people latched onto. I would definitely say he's a bigot, but you are correct in that there is no source for him condemning LGBTQ people.

Ok. But conservative people aren't LGBTQ haters, just making that clear. Bc some people that panflet the identity politics stuff try real hard to push this absurd idea.
Also, one more thing. Giving someone a platform doesn't mean one agrees with that person. People who aren't afraid of discussions and don't buy into the "safe spaces" thing usually engage in debates with people they fundamentally disagree with, and it isn't uncommon to find cases out there. Debates are a clash of ideas, so a person being a part of a show for conversation or debate doesn't mean they agree with the invited in question. I'm not saying he doesn't approve of Sugita, I'm just saying that basing your argument on giving someone like her a platform is devoid of meaning, given that the one who holds the platform doesn't need to agree with such person to engage in a conversation or debate.

 

[FLGibsonIII]

Minecraft is very popular in Japan from what I understand. Then again, it's popular worldwide, so Steve would be a good choice.

Source? Steve is surprisingly well requested outside of forums like these.

You're kind of on the mark, but fall short of it. Smash Bros. has always had characters that appeal more towards Japanese audiences, with a token Western pick in recent releases (Little Mac for Sm4sh, Ridley for Ultimate).

While people may think DLC should appeal to everyone, and in theory that's correct, appealing to specific markets using focused DLC reveals has the largest potential to draw in new players, reinvigorate interest in the game, and drive sales of new consoles, games, and fighters.

People in Japan will pay money for a Switch, Dragon Quest XI S, and Smash Bros. with the Fighters Pass because Dragon Quest is just that big. This is especially important given how Nintendo competes with only Sony in Japan, and has a chance to overtake them with the Switch the way it is.

Kids everywhere will beg their parents for a Switch and/or a copy of Smash Bros. because Minecraft Steve is in it, and a prominent audience for Smash Bros., young adults to middle age, are at the point where Minecraft is nostalgic for them, and will buy Steve because of that.

Some focused, calculated risks to expand and break into new markets aren't bad business decisions. That being said, a majority of the DLC will likely be general picks such as Joker.

Yeah, there is a good probability we get mostly general picks in the future. My original statement is a bit overblown. I just wouldn't be surprised if NOJ steered things in that direction. After reading Japanese responses to the grinch leak I was surprised at how different the western and eastern markets were in terms of opinion. The grinch leak would have been very disappointing for them. The reason I included incineroar in my original comment is that a main complaint about the grinch leak in Japan was the lack of a new pokemon. People love pokemon in the states, but I didnt see many asking for another one here. Meanwhile it would have been a dream come true for the states if the grinch leak came true. Sakurai has been good at managing the divide, but I am wondering if NOJ can do the same if they chose the dlc.

 

[GoodGrief741]

From what I see, a lot of Smash fans share this mentality myself included. Bring on even Steve and I'll throw down the $6.

That’s the one line I don’t cross.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Ok. But conservative people aren't LGBTQ haters, just making that clear. Bc some people that panflet the identity politics stuff try real hard to push this absurd idea.
Also, one more thing. Giving someone a platform doesn't mean one agrees with that person. People who aren't afraid of discussions and don't buy into the "safe spaces" thing usually engage in debates with people they fundamentally disagree with, and it isn't uncommon to find cases out there. Debates are a clash of ideas, so a person being a part of a show for conversation or debate doesn't mean they agree with the invited in question. I'm not saying he doesn't approve of Sugita, I'm just saying that basing your argument on giving someone like her a platform is devoid of meaning, given that the one who holds the platform doesn't need to agree with such person to engage in a conversation or debate.

Except he had her on to talk, not to debate. At no point did he challenge or disagree with her points. While Sugimiya being conservative isn't reason enough to believe he dislikes LGBTQ people, there is enough evidence to make a reasonable assumption.

Regardless, this is getting into semantics that aren't pertinent to the discussion at hand.

 

[Luigi The President]

All I'm saying is Geno is a known gay icon

 

[Deleted member]

All I'm saying is Geno is a known gay icon

Replace the "e" with some other vowels... "ay"...

IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

All I'm saying is Geno is a known gay icon

Why do you think so many of us want him in smash?

 

[Luigi The President]

Why do you think so many of us want him in smash?

YEAAAAA

 

[StormC]

All I'm saying is Geno is a known gay icon

So is K. Rool.

Must be something to do with running around naked in a cape.

 

[Icewolff92]

Can we all agree upon that it would be quite hilarious if it ends up being the cause of that there is no Square Enix rep/someone else that isn't on the list ala 2B, Noctis, Nekku, Laura Croft you name it considering this conversation?

 

[Deleted member]

Can we all agree upon that it would be quite hilarious if it ends up being the cause of that there is no Square Enix rep/someone else that isn't on the list ala 2B, Noctis, Nekku, Laura Croft you name it considering this conversation?

Damn man I just want Bartz.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

Can we all agree upon that it would be quite hilarious if it ends up being the cause of that there is no Square Enix rep/someone else that isn't on the list ala 2B, Noctis, Nekku, Laura Croft you name it considering this conversation?

I've always maintained that the entire list is leakbait and nobody will see the true SE rep coming

Spoiler

it's tail time

 

[Deleted member]

Something I've been wondering about. Has Verge brought up Erdrick on his own or in discussion of other leakers bringing him up?
Because, I recall him before he released any names for a SE rep how tight their leak policy is and that he didn't want anyone to risk being fired and that they put out leak bait all the time.
So, if he ever does say Erdrick himself (not echoing other leakers), then I think that would be especially interesting to note taking that into consideration.
That said, I'm not putting my faith in him 100% but I do believe he has at least some credible sources since he got most of the base game right.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

Something I've been wondering about. Has Verge brought up Erdrick on his own or in discussion of other leakers bringing him up?
Because, I recall him before he released any names for a SE rep how tight their leak policy is and that he didn't want anyone to risk being fired and that they put out leak bait all the time.
So, if he ever does say Erdrick himself (not echoing other leakers), then I think that would be especially interesting to note taking that into consideration.
That said, I'm not putting my faith in him 100% but I do believe he has at least some credible sources since he got most of the base game right.

I think the DLC season is a different ball game. Verg swore the SE rep would be shown first, but that didn't happen. I don't doubt the legitimacy of his sources, but I think our so-called insider knowledge might be lesser during DLC winter

 

[Flyboy]

Can we all agree upon that it would be quite hilarious if it ends up being the cause of that there is no Square Enix rep/someone else that isn't on the list ala 2B, Noctis, Nekku, Laura Croft you name it considering this conversation?

Man if it's 2B or Noctis I'll lose my damn mind but I dare not dream.

 

[Luigi The President]

Something I've been wondering about. Has Verge brought up Erdrick on his own or in discussion of other leakers bringing him up?
Because, I recall him before he released any names for a SE rep how tight their leak policy is and that he didn't want anyone to risk being fired and that they put out leak bait all the time.
So, if he ever does say Erdrick himself (not echoing other leakers), then I think that would be especially interesting to note taking that into consideration.
That said, I'm not putting my faith in him 100% but I do believe he has at least some credible sources since he got most of the base game right.

Don't think leakers thinking a character from a company who has put out fake characters is likely is a good sign
Hope this makes sense

I'm basically saying that people going "probably Erdrick" may actually be a pretty bad sign for Erdrick

 

[Deleted member]

Don't think leakers thinking a character from a company who has put out fake characters is likely is a good sign
Hope this makes sense

I'm basically saying that people going "probably Erdrick" may actually be a pretty bad sign for Erdrick

Right. I think if he outright said it though that he would be 100% sure its not leakbait, but you do have a point too.