Spirited Away - Game Thread - Game Over!

[somitomi]

At this point I'm beginning to think Laser might be scum, I'm still suspicious of Swiss and (to a lesser extent) bessie as well. And I don't do buddy analysis on D1, I don't trust my D1 reads enough to look for connections between them.

EBWOP: I'm still not convinced you aren't scum, although Frozen makes a good point about you not being informed.

 

[Z25]

I don't really understand why you think scum!Swiss would think his power is clearing. Just because a role is demonstrable doesn't mean that mafia cannot have it.



My gut read was that scum!Fate was making a move to defend scum!bessie. His subsequent posting made me think this was incorrect.



I'm townreading you because I think your play this game has been townie. I've seen you play as scum, and am fairly confident I can tell the difference, as I alluded to in my read of you.

I suppose that is a fair point. In a normal game I would have had that exact mindset of it being a clear if I had it. Especially because it’s not often roles get mixed up from what you would generally see.

 

[LaserGuy]

looking pretty sus there laser guy
kinda funny you putting somi and darkpit as ur town reads when they are facing some scrutiny
so you gonna vote for them or what?

They've both been townreads for awhile. And I don't normally vote my townreads, no.

 

[LaserGuy]

Ok, so LaserGuy buddying me like that is concerning, are you trying to pocket me, man?

I have no idea what you are referring to.

 

[Sabrar]

I am pissed that noone, absolutely noone bothered to ask what the below meant.

It was serious because 2+3=5.

2: votes on me
3: # of demons
5: majority

LaserGuy is fully aware of the nonstandard math of the setup, see below:

We've got <24 hours left. You're going to need to place a vote soon. Scum has a larger than usual voting bloc, so we need all townies voting today.

However he is comfortable placing a double random vote, knowing that the chance of an 'accidental' hammer is larger than usual. Furthermore an accidental hammer just happened in the previous game.
I don't believe town!LaserGuy would do that.

 

[somitomi]

I've been thinking about how bessie feels off to me and since I can reasonably claim to be familiar with her, I'm more confident in this than my read of Swiss.
##bessie
This is kind of wine-adjacent and gut-feely, but I think bessie knows that I'm not one for risky gambits as scum and while she is usually the kind to tunnel a player, I've experienced town!bessie tunnels before and this doesn't seem to be that.

**** outta here lmao if I solved darkpit/swiss/laser D1 im a legend

Do you think Darkpit would just flat out townread both mates like that?

Regardless, like I said i don’t see a way my ability gives any real info this game. I guess it depends on what powers are in the game but even so the opening sounds like it’s nothing major that normally helps prove things.

The powers are apparently deliberately low impact, so I wouldn't expect them to do anything groundbreaking here.

I have no idea what you are referring to.

Well, you've been defending me quite a lot actually and I'm not sure what makes you this confident in your read of me (not that I'm complaining though). There's also that question you answered for me or jumping back on the Fate wagon based on my read. Overall, you've associated with me more than usual.

 

[Z25]

I've been thinking about how bessie feels off to me and since I can reasonably claim to be familiar with her, I'm more confident in this than my read of Swiss.
##bessie
This is kind of wine-adjacent and gut-feely, but I think bessie knows that I'm not one for risky gambits as scum and while she is usually the kind to tunnel a player, I've experienced town!bessie tunnels before and this doesn't seem to be that.

Do you think Darkpit would just flat out townread both mates like that?

The powers are apparently deliberately low impact, so I wouldn't expect them to do anything groundbreaking here.

Well, you've been defending me quite a lot actually and I'm not sure what makes you this confident in your read of me (not that I'm complaining though). There's also that question you answered for me or jumping back on the Fate wagon based on my read. Overall, you've associated with me more than usual.

Yeah that’s why I was thinking that way. It be an interesting discussion to have post game with Zen as to how he imagined powers working here and what their purpose was.

 

[bessie]

I’m not sure what fate has to do with anything I said? I was talking about Swiss.

It was just an example of the powers being both NAI and vanillaish.

It feels genuine. I don't really care if it's verifiable. I'm not asking for his notes. The question is, if Darkpit were scum, would be spending time agonizing over his FrozenFlame read? Clearly not. Would scum!Darkpit think: "If I were Town in this situation, I would be deeply confused about FrozenFlame and be writing a bunch of frustrated notes in my journal about this?" and "Is this detail something that I should include as an attempt to fake a Townslip?" My impression of Darkpit is he is not the type of player that would be thinking things through in this manner.

You are misrepresenting my comment. I think you are looking for an excuse to town read Darkpit.

I scumread you for the content you posted in the thread, at the time you posted it. That you were claim you were intentionally trying to disguise your thoughts doesn't actually enhance your credibility.

You are misrepresenting my content again. I never tried to hide my intent; it was there for everyone to see. I only made the cliff notes version to show that you are deliberately misreading my content.

If you believe not having the answer to one question derails your scumhunting entirely, it probably means you are not actually scumhunting. The fact that the entirety of your case on him appears to rest on this single point and you haven't attempt to engage with any of his other content is kind of baffling to me.

And here you try to invalidate my suspicions by misstating that they are based on a single point. Yes the initial point was what drew my suspicions, but somitomi’s not addressing my questions and later admitting that my initial observation was valid is why I am still suspicious. And I am even more suspicious of you for trying to draw my attention away from somitomi for this entire game, for you saying that you don’t think my questioning of somitomi was important enough to expect an answer from him, and for continuing to misrepresent my content in this matter.

Well yeah, if by "not completely accurate" you mean that I claimed what my power does and not the exact wording of my role PM. I'm pretty sure Swiss was even less accurate in his claim by this standard, so I genuinely don't understand what you're seeing here.

Do you really not see what I found odd in your original claim? It’s not the paraphrasing, it’s that you were the only player that claimed a role that mentioned a specific alignment. In a game where all the powers were randomly assigned to alignments.

Refer to this post for the original claims.

How so? I was scumreading bessie and Sabrar, who are, as it happens, the last two people to claim (I'm less certain about Sabrar atm). This wasn't the only thing I based my evaluations on, but it was certainly something I was thinking about as the game progressed.

And your backup reason for scum reading me is because I didn’t claim immediately?? Something you know I am usually against so you should consider it NAI??

This you?

I'm well aware of your position on claiming. That's why I said I wasn't surprised.

I've been thinking about how bessie feels off to me and since I can reasonably claim to be familiar with her, I'm more confident in this than my read of Swiss.
##bessie
This is kind of wine-adjacent and gut-feely, but I think bessie knows that I'm not one for risky gambits as scum and while she is usually the kind to tunnel a player, I've experienced town!bessie tunnels before and this doesn't seem to be that.

Hmm, see above comment. I noticed something odd in your claim, I try to question you, I not only didn’t get a response from you I get told by LaserGuy my question was trivial. And now you OMGUS vote me for being suspicious?

 

[somitomi]

Do you really not see what I found odd in your original claim? It’s not the paraphrasing, it’s that you were the only player that claimed a role that mentioned a specific alignment. In a game where all the powers were randomly assigned to alignments.

From the phrasing of #358 it seemed like my claim not being completely accurate was somehow important, but now I genuinely don't see how me confirming that I paraphrased supports your case in any way. I already tried explaining that the actual role PM is written to be alignment independent (which actually confused me at first). You also seem to be glossing over the fact, that Sabrar's power also targets a specific alignment [#270]. Nevertheless, you seem to think that the only explanation is that I made that up and this, quite frankly, doesn't scan. I was evidently aware that roles are alignment independent when I claimed, why would I make up an alignment-specific power? I know there aren't "townie roles" in this game and unless Sabrar is my buddy I don't even have any indication that alignment-specific powers exist.
Secondly, the fact that I'm not a risk-taker has been noticed by some people here and they haven't known me for tenth as long as you have. Scum-somi claiming so early without being prodded is already a stretch, but in what universe do I decide to fake-claim when I already know roles are NAI?

Hmm, see above comment. I noticed something odd in your claim, I try to question you, I not only didn’t get a response from you I get told by LaserGuy my question was trivial. And now you OMGUS vote me for being suspicious?

No, I'm voting because I don't think town-you would let me get away with not replying to the question that was apparently so pertinent to your biggest scumread. And yet instead of pushing me to answer it properly, you just move on to concluding I must be false-claiming, because there's no way alignment-specific powers exist. You're not tunneling, you're not trying to get to the bottom of this, you just decided it's suspicious and voted me for it.

 

[somitomi]

As for the LaserGuy connection, why would my buddy LaserGuy come to my rescue before I had a chance to reply? If he felt it necessary, he could help me reply in scum chat without the public record that'd reflect badly on him if I'm yeeted D1 (which has happened a lot lately). And yet LaserGuy has been hard townreading me all day and openly followed me on the FateShirou wagon on top of that. I similarly made him one of my two townreads at one point. I know this is full blown wine at this point, but do you think we're taking refuge in audacity here?

I'm going to bed soon, so if you need me for anything, I'll stick around for 10 minutes or so.

 

[FateShirou]

I know this is full blown wine at this point, but do you think we're taking refuge in audacity here?

is laser still a town read for you?

 

[somitomi]

is laser still a town read for you?

Why bother asking about my scumreads if you're not going to read the answer?

 

[FateShirou]

Why bother asking about my scumreads if you're not going to read the answer?

 

[somitomi]

Ok, well I don't know what that means, but that's it from me today. I'll try to wake up for the deadline, but can't make promises.

 

[FateShirou]

Ok, well I don't know what that means, but that's it from me today. I'll try to wake up for the deadline, but can't make promises.

Alright, I will think about bessie, i think its mostly a meta read, but yea
btw how do we know if you arnt a risk-taking scum LOL

I want to get a flip on swiss right now

if you flip bessie and they go town, what next? swiss?
if you flip bessie and they go scum, whos their scummate

 

[FateShirou]

^ crap
i meant laser there not swiss

 

[bessie]

somitomi post analysis

#23 RVS FateShirou, notes that roles are weak and unrelated to alignment.
#33 Unvotes, claims a role that is related to alignment.

I'm Lin, Rejuvenation Spirit
If I'm sanctioned I can remove a demon from the sanctioned chat (so they can no longer talk or use any ability that needs access to the chat). It's one-shot.

#96 Likes Darkpit, responds to questions and Swiss’s comment about wagoning him.
#97 Comment that demons would want to keep their role a secret, prods me (although he knows I am at work).
#116 Replies to some questions re fake claiming (not mine), responds to a different question from me.
#126 Responds to comments by FateShirou, defensive over comment by Swiss re eliminating FateShirou.
#165 Responses to Swiss, Frozen re false claiming; no opinion on Sabrar.
#177 Response to FateShirou, Frozen, and me re false claiming, doesn’t think scum would claim a made up power; Sabrar has not made an impression.
#216 Responds to Swiss; says he will have to read Sabrar because he still has no opinion; responds to me re inconsistencies in his responses re false claiming; responds to Darkpit re sanctioning thoughts.
#244 Response to FateShirou re his power; caught a shroop (Darkpit re me).
#246 Darkpit, LaserGuy townie, no scum reads.
#285 Questions Sabrar on why he didn’t claim; responds to FateShirou’s question as to who he would vote for and says he would OMGUS vote me; revises his role claim in response to my questioning him on it (and is very defensive about it).

Yeah, the role PM says "player of opposing alignment" but in paraphrasing the role I used the appropriate alignment instead, sue me. I also didn't mention that if I remove a spirit, they can't vote in Judgement Day, because it's irrelevant. I knew full well that roles are not tied to alignment [#23], so coming up with a "townie power" makes little sense here. And at the risk of opening a bottle of wine, do I strike you as the scum player who proactively claims a made-up power before there's even consensus about a mass claim?

#303 Votes FateShirou for weirdness (looking for reason to vote?).
#326 Responds to FateShirou, is mildly concerned LaserGuy is sheeping his vote.
#332 Confirms he received FateShirou’s cookie.
#337 Responds to FateShirou and Swiss.
#353 Unvotes and claims he never wanted to eliminate FateShirou; responds to Swiss.
#356 Votes Swiss, claims he is sheeping someone’s case (who? Unclear, but Frozen is the only person voting for Swiss at this point.).
#435 Responds to me re my ping over his claim (and misses why I was suspicious); responds to FateShirou re his voting (somi claims to have no strong reads).
#440 Concerned that LaserGuy is buddying him; explains his votes on FateShirou and Swiss (claims both were weak); thinks Laser might be scum, suspicious of me to a lesser extent.
#441 EBWOP.
#446 Votes bessie for being off; questions Frozen’s scum picks of Darkpit/Swiss/Laser (then why was he sheeping Frozen's Swiss vote?); responds to Laser re buddying comment (Laser’s town reading him, answered a question for him, sheeped his vote on FateShirou).
#449 Responds to my explanation on what I found suspicious in his claim (continues to miss why I had my initial ping, deliberate?). Tries to turn the conversation to the would-I-do-this-as-scum?? meta argument.
#450 Would-LaserGuy-do-this-as-my-buddy?? meta argument. Somi says LaserGuy is in his townreads??
#452 Responds to FateShirou that he still thinks LaserGuy might be scum.
#454 Signing off, might not be back before deadline.


Analysis
1. somitomi completely fails to understand my initial ping; I explained several times so I think this is deliberate. He also fails to recognize that his reactions are reinforcing my suspicion.
2. somitomi’s votes have all been for weak scum reads (he has said that his vote for FateShirou and Swiss were weak and he was sheeping with the Swiss vote, and in #441 he claims his suspicion of me is to a lesser extent than Swiss).
3. somitomi is concerned LaserGuy is buddying him and claims that he is scum reading LaserGuy, but has not voted for him.
4. somitomi ends the day with a vote on me in #446 for “wine-adjacent and gut-feely” reasons, even though in #440 I was a weak suspicion (lesser than Swiss) and Laser was a possible scum read.


I would vote for somitomi or LaserGuy because I think they are aligned.

 

[FateShirou]

Alright
dosnt seem people will come before i go to sleep


##LaserGuy

prob wont be around for EoD shenanigans

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

freed up much later than expected, will be here until deadline

the reason I'm so suss of the early townreads on me is because this game rewards ingratiation more than other setups because of the judgement phase. scum cant NK me, and if I get sanctioned and we get a judgement phase scum have a very strong incentive to butter up people they are concerned may get sanctioned and have influence over a 50/50 shot at victory for the demons. after reading the setup, I came in to this game knowing that I needed to be wary of getting snowed in early game because if I play a strong town game and get sanctioned then they're going to want to do everything in their power to influence my attention away from them if judgement occurs

sabrars recognition of how fundamentally powerful the judgment day wincon is for demons is the fundamental basis for my townread of him, I think scum have a vested interest in preventing the town from considering the potential consequences of a judgement phase so that we have less time to consider the ramifications of entering one relative to who is sanction and in limbo

I think laser and swiss are both strong enough players to recognize this and lay groundwork early to avoid crosshairs in possible judgement eventualities and they are both capable of recognizing this strat as having strong scum EV

 

[Sabrar]

I know this is full blown wine at this point, but do you think we're taking refuge in audacity here?

This is not a format where scum can win by bussing.

bessie could you please stop insisting that somitomi 'revised' his claim? He is entirely correct in saying that the full wording of his ability and what he originally said it does are equivalent. Furthermore I think that you also misrepresent some of his comments, e.g.

#353 Unvotes and claims he never wanted to eliminate FateShirou; responds to Swiss.

The original quote in #353 is "I'm not determined to get you voted out,", this imo is not the same as 'never wanting to eliminate you'.
I'm not saying you're wrong about somitomi, but if you're town you're being very impartial and tunnely right now.

 

[Xivii]

So here we all are again.

 

[Xivii]

Vote Count [B1-12]

LaserGuy |3/5| FateShirou, Sabrar, FrozenFlame
FateShirou | 2/5 | Swiss, Darkpit
bessie | 2/5 | LaserGuy, somitomi*
somitomi* | 1/5 | bessie
Swiss | 1/5 | Z25

Not Voting: None

Spoiler: History

sab, sab
las, sab
sab, unv
sab, las
mav, las - invalid
swiss, las
som, shi
---------------1
som, unv
fro, swi
---------------2
swi, las - already voting
shi, swi
---------------3
las, bes
swi, bes
---------------4
las, shi
---------------5
bes, som
las, bes
---------------6
sab, unv
sab, shi
som, shi
z25, swi
las, shi
swi, som
z25, unv
---------------7
pit, shi
sab, unv
las, unvo
---------------8
shi, som
las, bes
---------------9
som, unv
som, swi
fro, las
---------------10
sab, las
z25, swi
---------------11
swi, unv
swi, shi
som, bes
shi, las
---------------12

With 9 players in Limbo, it takes 5 to banish.
The deadline for Banish 1 is Saturday, the 22nd at 11:59 pm MT.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

ok sabrar is now locktown wow

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

only other person than myself I trust to sanction rn

 

[FateShirou]

only other person than myself I trust to sanction rn

me
FriendShirou

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

nothing personal but I don't think you've put nearly as much thought as sabrar or I into what this ruleset is designed to reward and how scum would try to maximize their EV so I don't trust you holding the gun in judgement, I do think you're town tho

 

[FateShirou]

ok, let me suffer more

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

its not suffering when we yeet demons tho

 

[FateShirou]

well im off to bed
good luck chat
o7

 

[bessie]

I'm here.

bessie could you please stop insisting that somitomi 'revised' his claim? He is entirely correct in saying that the full wording of his ability and what he originally said it does are equivalent.

This is what I mean by revised.

Revise (verb)
1 to amend or alter
2 to alter something already written or printed, in order to make corrections, improve, or update


I mean that something was changed, in this case a word, which is the word that originally pinged me. somitomi’s original claim pinged me because his was the only claim that mentioned a specific alignment. I explained this. somitomi revised/amended/altered his claim to be more precise, the wording of which in itself would not have pinged me. But his reaction which included a would-I-do-this-as-scum comment I feel confirms my suspicions that he is scum.

This is not the only reason I suspect somitomi. He is voting for me which is whatever but I was not even his strongest scum read, not that he has any. His previous vote for Swiss was sheeping someone. He claims to be suspicious of LaserGuy but is not voting for him.

I already said I would switch to LaserGuy if needed to secure an elimination because I feel they are both scum.

 

[LaserGuy]

Final, assuming I'm to be yeeted thoughts.

Obviously with only three votes and me not voting to self-pres, I'm going to flip Town. If I were scum it would have been pretty trivial at any point over the course of the day to swing the vote to any of the other wagons. Unless you think scum is exactly me/bessie/Fate which is... insane.

Disappointed with how productive with those 24 hours are. I am assuming scum are in relatively good positions on the wagons and aren't looking for or needing any late action. Probably at least 3 of the wagons in the final VC are all Town.

For next steps...

Normally I would say that Swiss is the perfect choice for a sanction as he is a great endgame player and is going to have activity issues going forward. My gut is that I'm probably wrong about him and he's Town, but I don't think I trust my read on him enough to recommend it. It may be best to play it safe and send FrozenFlame.

Banish bessie D3. If Sabrar is Town, probably banish on z25 will win it. Somi, Fate and Dark are all probably safe to sanction along with Frozen.

 

[Sabrar]

FrozenFlame hard defends FateShirou and they are voting together.
LaserGuy hard defends somitomi and they are voting together.

I'm pretty sure that if one of these 4 players ever flip demon then we should immediately banish their pair next.
If both of these are townie pairs then by POE scum is imo bessie+Swiss+(Z25 or Darkpit)

 

[Sabrar]

Obviously with only three votes and me not voting to self-pres, I'm going to flip Town.

You can't self-pres now and it was not apparent yesterday that you would need to.

 

[bessie]

##Unvote

##LaserGuy


To ensure that the day doesn't end with a tie.

 

[Sabrar]

Tie doesn't matter. Whoever reaches the most votes first will be eliminated.

 

[bessie]

I just read the rules and I don't see the tiebreaker rule.

 

[Xivii]

Alas, the phase has come to an end, no more posting Wisp.

 

[somitomi]

I woke up, but I don't think there's much I could add at this point.

 

[Xivii]

Vote Count [B1-Final]

LaserGuy |4/5| bessie, FateShirou, Sabrar, FrozenFlame
FateShirou | 2/5 | Swiss, Darkpit
bessie | 2/5 | LaserGuy, somitomi*
Swiss | 1/5 | Z25

Not Voting: None

Spoiler: History

sab, sab
las, sab
sab, unv
sab, las
mav, las - invalid
swiss, las
som, shi
---------------1
som, unv
fro, swi
---------------2
swi, las - already voting
shi, swi
---------------3
las, bes
swi, bes
---------------4
las, shi
---------------5
bes, som
las, bes
---------------6
sab, unv
sab, shi
som, shi
z25, swi
las, shi
swi, som
z25, unv
---------------7
pit, shi
sab, unv
las, unvo
---------------8
shi, som
las, bes
---------------9
som, unv
som, swi
fro, las
---------------10
sab, las
z25, swi
---------------11
swi, unv
swi, shi
som, bes
shi, las
---------------12
bes, unv
bes, las
---------------Final

 

[Xivii]

LaserGuy was Banished!

He was...

Sanctioned
None


Limbo
FrozenFlame
bessie
Somitomi
Z25
Sabrar
HeuristicCheese
Darkpit
FateShirou



Banished
LaserGuy - Spirit​