Spirited Away - Game Thread - Game Over!

[Sabrar]

Have you claimed Sabrar
I'm having a hard time doing ISO/digging posts on people haha....

No.
You can search the thread by author (click on top right search icon, select 'This thread' instead of 'Everywhere' and enter player name into 'By' field).

 

[Swiss]

Someone ELI5 re: the Demon sanction?

 

[Sabrar]

ELIS = ???

 

[Swiss]

Explain it like I'm 5.

Obviously don't actually, but I hadn't given the slightest consideration to sanctioning a demon.

 

[somitomi]

Huh, Sabrar actually left no impression in my mind, that is weird.

Not what buddy

Come up with yeeting someone with such terrible reasoning.

what do you mean by this?

Um, any confirmable false claim will fall apart eventually when the claimed power doesn' t work?

 

[FateShirou]

Um, any confirmable false claim will fall apart eventually when the claimed power doesn' t work?

looking at the claims right now, do you see any that can fit this?
i mean we cant rule out scums working together to support a fake claim

 

[FateShirou]

I reset the vote, but only early in a day phase

jfc this took me all day to find

 

[Darkpit54]

Someone ELI5 re: the Demon sanction?

From my idea of it it would be to help safeguard in case a judgement day seems upcoming? Risky obviously but sanctioning a demon would remove them from the pool, so it would prevent a judgement day just like banishing one would. Additionally, even if we fail to hit a demon, we would at least get a scummy townie that may be likely to have been banished during a judgement day and caused us to lose the game. I guess it would depend on how much faith we had in the sanctioned spirits in the case of a judgement day. Not entirely sure that I would push for the strategy, but i'm pretty sure that's the logic behind it if me and sabrar were thinking similar things. Good to at least keep in mind ig

looking at the claims right now, do you see any that can fit this?
i mean we cant rule out scums working together to support a fake claim

I'm a little confused why people are still focusing so much on claims and fake claims? Fake claiming seems like it would be more work than it's work given the seemingly harmless nature of these roles. Genuinely curious what you're worried about. What would scum stand to gain by fake claiming considering the type of roles we've seen so far?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Huh, Sabrar actually left no impression in my mind, that is weird.

are you saying the slot generally hasnt made any impression on you this phase? or is this in response to something specific?

Um, any confirmable false claim will fall apart eventually when the claimed power doesn' t work?

ok this makes more sense even though you've essentially reduced it to a truism. obviously if the scum fakeclaim something that should be confirmable, but that they don't actually have, then eventually with savvy town direction that lie should be exposed rather quickly when the claim fails to produce the advertised results. thatd be some pretty bad scum play though that I doubt anyone on this roster would commit to as a strategy (unless Fate has seen some wild **** from his homesite)

you originally said "any confirmable claim" not "any confirmable false claim" which was confusing because scum could have any of the given claimed powers and be lying about their alignment and it would still be a "false claim" but it seems like you were specifically referring to a scenario where scum invent a claim of a power they don't actually even have. generally speaking it is very possible for a scum fake claim to "check out" if they actually have the ability they claim to have and execute it as directed, I was concerned that you were ruling this possibility out

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

darkpit I'm pretty sure sabrar was trying to get a read on swiss based on his speculation re: sabrar's strategical reasoning and/or swiss's eventual response if and when sabrar chose to actually explain his position

not sure spoon feeding swiss possible answers is the protown move here =/

 

[bessie]

While I am not surprised by this in the slightest, I am actually curious in the context of this particular setup why you still feel this way.

I am in principle against unprovoked D1 claims. More so power claims, because I feel that mass claiming on D1 is against the spirit of the game. If I had an easily searchable archive of old games, I could probably find at least a half a dozen references where I have discussed this previously. [Note to self: Meta Mafia II almost ready to post finish it up.] And I say this as someone who is a very mechanical player that enjoys late game power role strategizing. But I also enjoy the unknowns of early game (and add the usual stuff about protecting town PRs, anti-claim mechanics, etc).

For this particular setup, the roles are very likely mostly harmless, and there is no night kill, so protecting PRs isn’t an issue. However, I still feel it would have been fun to let some of the powers be revealed as the game progressed, instead of having a D1 mass claim.

For the record, I have a bunch of one-shot gifts that I can give, some of which will be apparent in thread similar to FateShirou’s power. My power should be confirmable sometime after 7:00 am Central European Summer Time.

In the context of this particular setup, why are you so insistent that everyone claim so early in the game?

In theory, they could. In practice, this does not look like it would be a particularly productive exercise. Of the seven players who have claimed, six have claimed roles that are publicly confirmable, in thread, within the same phase (everyone except Somi and possibly Swiss depending on how late in the day he can use his power). So if there are any role-related shenanigans, the number of players who could actually cause any problems is pretty small at this point.

This question was for somitomi. Why didn’t you let him answer it?
Note: somitomi responded to my post in his #116, but did not respond to the question that LaserGuy answered for him. He answered a similar (but not the same) question asked by Sabrar.

#107 Bessie re: maven. would maven as scum who's a new player not bother to read the rules?

Maven’s not a newbie. I played my first game with Maven on xkcd in 2017, and he had been playing on Smashboards before, though I don’t know for how long. And as I said, I think reading/comprehending/retaining the rules is NAI. But my opinion aside, it seems premature to me to label Maven town so early in the game and based on that one post, like perhaps you’re looking for a reason to do so?

#108 spidery, in this case, is when laser is reading off. Normally i save it for late game to describe the scum leader. But he's reading the same as last agme. Where he was scum. And I was town. And I was right. And Bessie THREW THE GAME.

yes, and im keeping track of what claim is confirmable and what isnt

Interesting, since you missed in your next post #120 that Swiss already claimed.
Also, you did not answer my question to you in #107.

It's helping out Darkpit but helping new(ish) players is NAI.

I just wanna highlight this BECAUSE IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND VERY TRUE!!!

 

[FateShirou]

Interesting, what would stop scum from breadcrumbing a false claim? Or potential false claim(s) so they could point to it later?

well a day 1 claim would stop this
but on the other hand they could fake claim and spend the rest of the game proofing it

anyways bessie, have you got a vote list ?

 

[Sabrar]

darkpit I'm pretty sure sabrar was trying to get a read on swiss based on his speculation re: sabrar's strategical reasoning and/or swiss's eventual response if and when sabrar chose to actually explain his position

I was not looking specifically for a reaction from Swiss, I was happy to get any reaction at all. I like Darkpit's thoughts on the matter, their approach is from a townie mindset.

 

[LaserGuy]

I am in principle against unprovoked D1 claims. More so power claims, because I feel that mass claiming on D1 is against the spirit of the game. If I had an easily searchable archive of old games, I could probably find at least a half a dozen references where I have discussed this previously. [Note to self: Meta Mafia II almost ready to post finish it up.] And I say this as someone who is a very mechanical player that enjoys late game power role strategizing. But I also enjoy the unknowns of early game (and add the usual stuff about protecting town PRs, anti-claim mechanics, etc).

I'm well aware of your position on claiming. That's why I said I wasn't surprised.

In the context of this particular setup, why are you so insistent that everyone claim so early in the game?

I don't really feel I have been insistent about it. I suggested the idea and explained why I thought it was a good one, and made one or two further points on it. The only player I specifically pressed for a claim was Swiss because I found it odd that he said he was interested in the idea at Day's start and then never claimed. Everyone else has claimed unprompted except for Sabrar.

For this setup in particular, mass claim seems to be fairly straightforward value added to Town. All of the eliminations are controlled by Town, so there isn't any danger of losing useful PRs, and we have the opportunity to direct PR actions as needed. As it turns out, several powers appear to give us the opportunity to communicate with the sanction group, at least a little bit, but if and only if we plan it out in advance.

Aside from whether the claim itself is beneficial, it gave people something to think about and move the game forward. I also strongly suspect that there is some alignment-indicative information buried in exactly how, when, and why, certain players have chosen to claim or not.

This question was for somitomi. Why didn’t you let him answer it?

Honestly, it seemed like such a trivial point, given what we already knew, that I didn't really think it was important who answered.

Regardless, he did answer the same question from both Fate and Sabrar in #116, but I'm sorry if you feel left out.

 

[Sabrar]

All of the eliminations are controlled by Town, so there isn't any danger of losing useful PRs, and we have the opportunity to direct PR actions as needed.

I question the veracity of this reason for a mass-claim. The mod expressed multiple times that abilities would have low impact, but if you still thought that they could be useful then you also had to consider the possibility of scum being able to interfere with them, especially if they were made public.

 

[Xivii]

Vote Count [B1-3a]

LaserGuy | 2/5 | Swiss, Sabrar
Swiss | 2/5 | FrozenFlame, FateShirou
Sabrar | 1/5 | LaserGuy

Not Voting: bessie, Maven, Darkpit, somitomi

Spoiler: History

sab, sab
las, sab
sab, unv
sab, las
mav, las - invalid
swiss, las
som, shi

som, unv
fro, swi

swi, las - already voting
shi, swi

With 9 players in Limbo, it takes 5 to banish.
The deadline for Banish 1 is Friday, the 21st at 11:59 pm MT.

 

[somitomi]

looking at the claims right now, do you see any that can fit this?
i mean we cant rule out scums working together to support a fake claim

Not really, but I don't think scum would lie about their powers in this game (see reply to FF below), even if they somehow cooperated to "confirm" it (which isn't any less risky as a strategy). But claiming their actual powers also limits scum, since they now can't use it in an overtly anti-town way (and they might be asked to use it in some specific way or not use it at all). In either case we're back to the initial question: is knowing everyone's role useful enough for scum to compensate for this in a game where they can't directly kill the "strong" PRs?

I'm a little confused why people are still focusing so much on claims and fake claims? Fake claiming seems like it would be more work than it's work given the seemingly harmless nature of these roles. Genuinely curious what you're worried about. What would scum stand to gain by fake claiming considering the type of roles we've seen so far?

I was under the impression that Fate was sussing LaserGuy for suggesting a mass claim and that made no logical sense to me. I just realised he called that NAI which is a reasonable position but I already got the ball rolling...

are you saying the slot generally hasnt made any impression on you this phase? or is this in response to something specific?

It's the former, but the thought occured to me while reading Laser discussing his Sabrar scumread with someone.

you originally said "any confirmable claim" not "any confirmable false claim" which was confusing because scum could have any of the given claimed powers and be lying about their alignment and it would still be a "false claim" but it seems like you were specifically referring to a scenario where scum invent a claim of a power they don't actually even have. generally speaking it is very possible for a scum fake claim to "check out" if they actually have the ability they claim to have and execute it as directed, I was concerned that you were ruling this possibility out

I wasn't, in fact in my initial post on the topic I basically ruled out scum claiming a made up power. The latter just didn't occur to me at the time, although the subsequent discussion convinced me that doing so would indeed be pretty dumb in this game.

Note: somitomi responded to my post in his #116, but did not respond to the question that LaserGuy answered for him. He answered a similar (but not the same) question asked by Sabrar.

I think my reply would've been the same though, since it amounted to "I haven't thought of that before".

 

[Darkpit54]

I was not looking specifically for a reaction from Swiss, I was happy to get any reaction at all. I like Darkpit's thoughts on the matter, their approach is from a townie mindset.

Thank you for this, I was worried I messed up some master plot or something

darkpit I'm pretty sure sabrar was trying to get a read on swiss based on his speculation re: sabrar's strategical reasoning and/or swiss's eventual response if and when sabrar chose to actually explain his position

not sure spoon feeding swiss possible answers is the protown move here =/

You can wait until after the game if you want, but can you explain to me how to distinguish between when someone genuinely wants speculation and when they're just trying to get a read?

Not really, but I don't think scum would lie about their powers in this game (see reply to FF below), even if they somehow cooperated to "confirm" it (which isn't any less risky as a strategy). But claiming their actual powers also limits scum, since they now can't use it in an overtly anti-town way (and they might be asked to use it in some specific way or not use it at all). In either case we're back to the initial question: is knowing everyone's role useful enough for scum to compensate for this in a game where they can't directly kill the "strong" PRs?

This is much more along the lines of what I was thinking, I'm really not that worried about scum's roles having too large of an impact, whether they're being truthful or not.

LaserGuy | 2/5 | Swiss, Sabrar

Assuming this is what Bessie meant?

 

[Sabrar]

Assuming this is what Bessie meant?

I think it's rather because of my charming personality.

 

[Swiss]

Town
Maven
FrozenFlame
DarkpitTBC,XP
FateShirou
Sabrar
bessie
Somitomi
LaserGuy
Swiss


#118 DarkPit comes across awkward, dislike. Overall like

#119 +ve FS for posting openly his win rates

#120 Keep coming back to this. Does FS genuinely miss the claim, or pretend to have skimmed thinking I'd townread it. Remember this
But throwing the vote out so carelessly is +ve. Either way they're smart

#121 mindmeld

#125 again a bit awkward though

#126 dislike Somi
p.s. what was somis claim

#127 I responded to this also...cautious to me doesn't mean strong reads, it means careful and analytical maybe moreso. easier to discuss outside of a game
You are tonally similar

#130 your reaction to me asking for a Somi wagon, could you go more detail here

#136 i like me

#140 like darkpit. reaction to me feels in theme with most peoples first
re: Maven, thinking about it im not sure. Page 1, then nothing after iirc. Bessie picks up on this also. Got nothing for you there really. I like him page 1 and spitballed my reads list, hence no colours

#142 I feel your push on Sabar echoes the Font push last game. But opinion easing

#153 FF I dont actually get what you dislike of me
Sabrar view same as Lasers?

#154 also, im lost

#165 Dislike Somi again. This is what, 3rd game with me? Yet acts me like suggesting an unreasonable lynch out of nowhere is uncharacteristic.
Sassy to FF which I laughed at.
Are you saying Sabrar is scummy, or null? You just drop that and leave

#169 FF acting like the schoolteacher

#170 who spoon fed what? I can't follow your train of thought I swear. I appreciate the hypocrisy in me saying that

#171 Bessie also picks up the Maven read. Thought he was new though. Like Bessie

#174 Like Laser



Town
FrozenFlame
Darkpit
Sabrar
bessie
Maven
LaserGuy
FateShirou
Somitomi
Swiss

Probably shouldn't be posting this reads list but hey ho.

 

[Swiss]

Just remove Maven from that reads list.

I'll add him back in next time

 

[LaserGuy]

I question the veracity of this reason for a mass-claim. The mod expressed multiple times that abilities would have low impact, but if you still thought that they could be useful then you also had to consider the possibility of scum being able to interfere with them, especially if they were made public.

The possibility of scum randing a role that happens to be able to interfere with one of Town's roles in a way that would be significantly more detrimental to us with everything known publicly is pretty small. It's not impossible, but more often than not the advantage to Town is going to far outweigh any advantage given to scum.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Vote Count [B1-3a]

LaserGuy | 2/5 | Swiss, Sabrar
Swiss | 2/5 | FrozenFlame, FateShirou
Sabrar | 1/5 | LaserGuy

Sabrar has gold text now? anyone claiming responsibility for this?

#153 FF I dont actually get what you dislike of me

this post still reads grime af imo

Well I was gonna suggest massclaim also but since LaserGuy is being Waggoned for it I’ll keep quiet

##Laserguy

just comes off forced an inauthentic, gut read

I also feel like you're trying to buddy me, same with laser, and it's feeding my paranoia of a swiss/laser/darkpit team

##Unvote

##LaserGuy

I'm sorry you rolled scum again.

how serious was this? laser coming out the gate saying "sheeping sabrar" whether intended to be a joke RVS vote or not, was questionable to me

 

[LaserGuy]

Darkpit54 If you had to pick one player right now to banish and one player to sanction, who would you choose?

It's the former, but the thought occured to me while reading Laser discussing his Sabrar scumread with someone.

Now that it has been brought to your attention, what do you think of Sabrar?

#127 I responded to this also...cautious to me doesn't mean strong reads, it means careful and analytical maybe moreso. easier to discuss outside of a game
You are tonally similar

Are you referring to something like, my posts tend to come across as quite polished and carefully constructed whereas a less 'cautious' person would just say what's on their mind without really worrying about the phrasing? If so, I will accept that by this metric, my posting is 'cautious'.

 

[FateShirou]

If you had to pick one player right now to banish and one player to sanction, who would you choose?

Banish Swiss
Sanction Laserguy/darkpit

 

[Sabrar]

how serious was this? laser coming out the gate saying "sheeping sabrar" whether intended to be a joke RVS vote or not, was questionable to me

It was serious because 2+3=5.

Once during a phrase i can give a cookie to someone whos in limbo or sanctioned, and their votes will have an asterisk next to them, the player who i give the cookie to can accept or deny it

Please let me know what effect you expect when you give a cookie to a sanctioned player.

 

[FateShirou]

Please let me know what effect you expect when you give a cookie to a sanctioned player.

i have no idea, just paraphrasing what my role PM says, maybe someone isnt saying anything and a sanctioned player can vote?
not sure if it means the previous votes of the sanctioned player will be highlighted

 

[Sabrar]

So you haven't asked the mod or tried to figure it out?

 

[Swiss]

Banish Swiss
Sanction Laserguy/darkpit

Discuss what you dislike of my play vs what is scummy and why.

 

[FateShirou]

So you haven't asked the mod or tried to figure it out?

No i have not
i did not consider that until you brought it up

Discuss what you dislike of my play vs what is scummy and why.

Dont like the way you claimed or ur role
and i dont like the way you post reads, to me it just feels like you are summarizing posts and just giving out hollow reads to look busy

 

[Swiss]

Has it occurred to you to meta check any of this. Why not?

What is wrong about how I claimed and what is wrong about what I claimed

 

[FateShirou]

Has it occurred to you to meta check any of this. Why not?

What is wrong about how I claimed and what is wrong about what I claimed

I dont like how you slipped it lol

and i have PTSD about a vote changing claim like yours, last time i encoutered one they were scum, is this enough NO

you were in newd3,i will read that

 

[Swiss]

I’m inactive tomorrow so any comments now beneficial.

 

[Swiss]

I’m a slippery man. Half the fun.

I think you’re smarter than people are giving you credit for buddy

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

LaserGuy would you characterize your play as passive so far this phase?

Maven89 stop like being sorta obvtown early only to just like coast until deadline, you're squandering it =(

bessie somitomi Maven89 Darkpit54

need to hear more from you all re: actual stances on slots, we're halfway thru the phase and I really don't see many real reads. don't need a full readlist if you don't want to yet but need atleast some pitches from you all if im going to have any chance at reading your slots

Banish Swiss
Sanction Laserguy/darkpit

interesting 3 slots to pick here, especially considering you want to sanction 2/3 of my first shot at the team solve

I want to understand your thought process here, do you have independent reasons for the locations for each of these proposals or are you picking these slots based on their relationships to one another? because if you feel laserguy and darkpit are aligned I share that suspicion but in that they're mates so walk me thru this

 

[FateShirou]

I want to understand your thought process here, do you have independent reasons for the locations for each of these proposals or are you picking these slots based on their relationships to one another? because if you feel laserguy and darkpit are aligned I share that suspicion but in that they're mates so walk me thru this

No, i most certainly did not think they were connected
I looked at the list of players, their claims, and what they have posted
and i saw those two as being town leans for me
If you believe they are connected, then thats something i will look into right now

 

[bessie]

well a day 1 claim would stop this
but on the other hand they could fake claim and spend the rest of the game proofing it

anyways bessie, have you got a vote list ?

How does this follow from your post #98?
And I rarely vote that early in the game. I'm working on my reads list and will try to have it tonight or tomorrow.

I'm well aware of your position on claiming. That's why I said I wasn't surprised.

It was background information needed so that others could understand the context of my answer to your question.

Honestly, it seemed like such a trivial point, given what we already knew, that I didn't really think it was important who answered.

Regardless, he did answer the same question from both Fate and Sabrar in #116, but I'm sorry if you feel left out.

My question to somitomi was in #107. You answered it in #110, without giving somitomi an opportunity to respond to me. somitomi didn’t post until #116 where he answered similar, not identical, questions.
Perhaps I have my reasons for wanting somitomi’s particular take on this question.
Ok I’ll just note that you are answering questions for somitomi.

I think my reply would've been the same though, since it amounted to "I haven't thought of that before".

This doesn’t make any sense. Immediately above this, you say “I wasn't, in fact in my initial post on the topic I basically ruled out scum claiming a made up power.” So how can you say you ruled out scum false claiming a power in your initial post, but later that you didn’t think of it before?

Sabrar has gold text now? anyone claiming responsibility for this?

I dont like how you slipped it lol

and i have PTSD about a vote changing claim like yours, last time i encoutered one they were scum, is this enough NO

Swiss claimed to reset the votes, not change them. Powers were randomized to alignments. You’re reaching for reasons here, aren’t you?

 

[FateShirou]

And I rarely vote that early in the game. I'm working on my reads list and will try to have it tonight or tomorrow.

this phrase is going to late forever aha

was it you doggo

Swiss claimed to reset the votes, not change them. Powers were randomized to alignments. You’re reaching for reasons here, aren’t you?

i mean technically if the votes reset, isnt that a change?
honestly you do make a good point about this
how does their role work, do votes get reset to 0, or?

 

[Darkpit54]

Darkpit54 Darkpit54 If you had to pick one player right now to banish and one player to sanction, who would you choose

need to hear more from you all re: actual stances on slots, we're halfway thru the phase and I really don't see many real reads. don't need a full readlist if you don't want to yet but need atleast some pitches from you all if im going to have any chance at reading your slots

About to try to reread everything and evaluate everyone more analytically, then I will get both of these hopefully by the end of the night. Right now I'm just realll confused about where I stand on most of the people here

 

[Darkpit54]

stop like being sorta obvtown

Also could someone explain how Maven is obvtown? A few people have mentioned it and ig I'm just missing it but like,,, how?