Special moves in competitive play

[zerosin]

may i ask why? not like it really matters...

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

may i ask why?

No. Access denied!

 

[zerosin]

.............................. ****
So, are super moves just being added to attract more of the party, pick-up and play audience? From the basic gist of things, that's what I'm getting.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

.............................. ****
So, are super moves just being added to attract more of the party, pick-up and play audience? From the basic gist of things, that's what I'm getting.

Yup. They're adding it because noobasaurus rex's love flashy imbalanced moves. They're not cheap. Unlike wavedashing, shieldgrabbing, edgehogging, using the c stick (thanks, Nintendo Power!) and shooting more than one projectile per stock. Those are cheap.

and what the F UCK is with the nintendog bull ****? Nintendogs are gay.

 

[Master Peach]

You know what another thing just came to mind. What if in Brawl they have an option menu that allow you to balance Super moves.

Like this for instants. In this menu you can control how much Damage a Super move causes. 30% being the lowest and 100% being the highest. You can also control the force of the attack form 1-10 (10 being the highest, and when I say force I mean how fast, how hard, and how far you fly out of the arena). And also in this option you can control the time you want the brawl move to come in the arena. From 1 min to 6 min or you could make the super come up at random times. And the last option for the super move is that you could turn it off so that it doesn't appear in the match at all.

For me this would be a good option menu because I'll be in control of the Super and have a great competitive match with my foe without being totally pawned. And if so I do get hit by my foes Brawl attack I won't be totally screwed, and I'll be able to come back and take revenge on my opponent.

 

[mario-man]

For me this would be a good option menu because I'll be in control of the Super and have a great competitive match with my foe without being totally pawned.

One question. What do you mean pawned. I THINK you mean pwned which is a ******** way of spelling owned in slang terms. JSYK

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Super attacks look like a lot of fun for friendlies, but there is NO, I repeat, NO way it would be balanced in an actual tournament game.

 

[mario-man]

Super attacks look like a lot of fun for friendlies, but there is NO, I repeat, NO way it would be balanced in an actual tournament game.

You've hit it dead on Dylan!!!

 

[Wrath`]

You guys are stupid.The head dude said he was going to balence the game out,and did by having a move that allowed you to have a comback and help lesser players.You guys say you want it more balenced,and when it is you complain.

 

[LinkGadra]

I can't believe we got this far without anyone answering zerosin's questions.
Let me give it a whirl:

(1)If these special moves weren't granted by an item (so basically, ignore the trailer), could they still be used in competitive play?
Oh yeah, forgot to add: (2) If yes or no, say why.
(3) Also, if yes, how would you get your special?

(1)Maybe.
(2)It depends on what they do, how powerful they are, how big their range is, and other variables.
(3)In Smash64 and Melee, you get bonus points for surviving at high percentages. Maybe at 100-150%, you could get a use of your super.

It could work, we won't know until Brawl gets here.

 

[linkw00t]

Bleh. Everyone loves to complain about items. When I play with my friends, a LOT of times items are the only reasons why I end up dying (Exploding Box FTL ) but to me, is just part of the game, and I have to use my skills in order to get around it. The real idea, should be to balance items where they are able to be fairly used in Tournament Play, something the beloved SSBM lacks.

As for the Super Smash Attacks, I think if it's an integral part of the game, then it should be allowed in Tournament Play, who's to say that the Tournaments of SSBB will be the same as the SSBM ones? It's a different game, if you don't like the changes, then stick with SSBM. Was everyone expecting a carbon copy with new characters? I know I'm a cliche, but look at:

SSB -> SSBM

Good improvement eh? Who wants Smash series to be like Tekken, where you play one and you've played em all?

And as far as all the hostility in this thread goes? WTF man? Don't be a bully, no one thinks anyone looks better just for flaming people. Don't be an elitist prick, no one really cares, this is the internet. You're not going to impress anyone just because you got on someone about like...Paragraph writing strategy or something. Yes yes, and it's not rare on Smashboards for everyone to call everyone else Noobs, n00bs, newbs, nubs etc. So please avoid being a stereotype. How about being constructive and postive?

 

[Cisne]

how do u know that those moves wont fit in smash ?

but since super moves looks like they come from an item , they wont be in competitive play :S

 

[zerosin]

So do we want a change in tactics or no change at all? That's the real question.

 

[linkw00t]

The question would be, why aren't there items in competitive play?

Then make changes accordingly.

 

[Toshiba]

There arent items in tournament play because no matter how "balanced" they are, they still take away from the essense of true competition. Tournaments attempt to be as pure as possible, thats why they set it to 1v1 no items and ban certain stages. They erase all variables they can so that it comes down to only each persons skill. Whether they "balance" them or not, they will still take away from this simply by being there. A variable is a variable, the addition of one will not go over well in the tournament scene, hence why its not gonna happen.

Cisne, the reason why super moves wont fit into smash competitive play is because of everything i listed in the top paragraph, and also because of the simple fact that the idea is completely unorigional. As i said earlier, sure ittl be fun to mess around with them for a little while in friendlies, but when it comes down to it, would you rather brawl play like a super smash brothers game, or a street fighter game?

 

[Justin]

There arent items in tournament play because no matter how "balanced" they are, they still take away from the essense of true competition. Tournaments attempt to be as pure as possible, thats why they set it to 1v1 no items and ban certain stages. They erase all variables they can so that it comes down to only each persons skill. Whether they "balance" them or not, they will still take away from this simply by being there. A variable is a variable, the addition of one will not go over well in the tournament scene, hence why its not gonna happen.

Toshiba got it exactly right. Tournaments are held to see who is better in individual skill. And don't give me this **** about it will balance the game out and let lesser players compete at higher levels of play just because they are getting their *** thrashed and then a **** smash icon drops on the ground and they pick it up. Whether it kills the opponent or not, takes 30% or 100%..I don't care, it's just not going to fit in the tournament play. If you can't learn (or dont want to learn) how to play competitively then just don't go to tournaments, but don't sit here and try to come up with a logical way that will allow you to play competitively and actually have a chance to win. Because then you know we'd have players entering tournaments not knowing what they are doing and the whole match they will be hoping, praying and thinking, "Where the hell is that smash icon? It needs to drop already..I'm getting my *** whipped".

 

[mario-man]

You guys are stupid.The head dude said he was going to balence the game out,and did by having a move that allowed you to have a comback and help lesser players.You guys say you want it more balenced,and when it is you complain.

When I say balanced, I mean that the characters be more balanced, not the gameplay. I don't think that items of any kind can really be "balanced".

 

[Toshiba]

Yup, justin said it perfectly.

To all the people who want items soo bad, why dont you guys just go back to a state of ignorant bliss? Weve all been there, before knowing about smashboards and advanced tactics. Back when it was cool to use items and the best player in your group of friends was the guy who knew when to roll. If you love items, just dont go to tournaments, dont post on smashboards, and dont bother improving in any way. Sit at home with your friends, turn turtle shells up to max, and have a ball.

Now i know the response im gonna get is "o so smashboards is only for pros now?", the short answer to that is a resounding yes. The long answer would be, smashboards is a place for people who enjoy super smash brothers and either play competitively, aspire to play competitively, or just want to improve their game. If you feel that items are a godsend and that they should definetly be included in tournament play, then you are not in any of these 3 categories. Items are a crutch and since you are figuritively crippling yourself, then you obviously do not want to improve. So again, stop posting here and just go play with your oblivious friends.

 

[mario-man]

You're cool Toshiba. I like your style!!

 

[Toshiba]

hmm i hope that wasnt sarcasm.

 

[mario-man]

Nope, not at all!!!
I meant it.

 

[Tran]

do we use this item in tourny???

 

[mario-man]

That's the whole reason that people are arguing on here when it was created to find out who thinks that Brawl will allow the special moves in tourneys, and it turned into why they thought they might be, and then people began debating (and flaming) about it.

 

[Tran]

how much dmg you think the item will do???

 

[mario-man]

I'm guessing 50+%. Any less and it woudn't be that special.

 

[Wrath`]

You guys are just afraid someone with less skill will win with these specials,and this show you have no skill yourself if you cant find tactics to avoid and dodge them.I can understand reg items,i cream people with those,but these super moves will be a new challenge.

 

[mario-man]

No, that is not what everyone on my side means!!!! We mean that we don't want anything to improve your chances of winning above what your skill level dictates. These specials will hinder your skill on both sides of the coin. Because some people will think that they don't have to be as good because of the specials. On the other side, obviously the better one will be hindered because the other player has a greater chance of whooping his butt, which, to any normal human being, is very upsetting.

 

[Wrath`]

This is called leveling out the playing fieldb or BALENCING!!!!!

If you cant find ways to avid these moves you must suck.Skilled players will acsept and adapt

 

[mario-man]

I don't want "balencing" as you so mildly put it. I'm not that great at this game.......YET. But I guarantee my oppinion won't change.............ever. I still don't think that they should be in tourneys. Sure, good players might "accept and adapt", but that doesn't mean that they approve of them. I would be the exact same way. If they were in, I would have to accept and adapt, but I would absolutely despise them.

 

[Wrath`]

If you are not that good,then this would help you:******:

I think they are cool and will help the majorite off people enjoy the game more.

 

[mario-man]

I have never been in a tourney, so I don't need any help leveling out the playing field. In fact, this may sound dumb to you, but I, being on the lesser side in the tourney, would think that it was not fair for me to have a chance to beat these seasoned pros.

We're not just talking about enjoying the game more. Sure, that is a good thing to do, but We're talking about tournaments here. I am not at all against the specials during friendlies.

Oh, BTW, I'm not a ******!!!!!

 

[Wrath`]

You just dont understand.This is like saying we are going to remove fox's shine.These spec.moves are part of your moveset,and it will take skills to use.

 

[mario-man]

You just dont understand.This is like saying we are going to remove fox's shine.These spec.moves are part of your moveset,and it will take skills to use.

I don't understand what you are trying to say here. I don't see how removing a special will be like removing Fox's Shine. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[Wrath`]

If you actually read my posts for meaning you would understand.


You say no i say yes who cares?

 

[mario-man]

Then let me say, I don't understand how a special would be like one of your movesets, because you have to have an item to do it. Your moveset is something that you can do at any point in time.


Obviously we care, or we wouldn't be posting back and forth about it.

 

[Toshiba]

first off koarin, either learn the language or go post on a forum that is supported by your native language. Second off, when someone says balancing, they arent talking about making it so everyone, regardless of skill level, is equal. Balacing has to do with the actual character itself, not the person.

To balance the game you could make kirby more powerful, bowser quicker, slow down fox , etc etc. That would in effect make it so that every character is equal in terms of pros and cons and that two people of equal skill level can use any 2 characters and have it be a draw. Thats what balancing is, not making it so that the guy who sucks complete *** can beat the pro.

Please stop posting until you know what your talking about and can articulate it properly.

 

[mario-man]

first off koarin, either learn the language or go post on a forum that is supported by your native language. Second off, when someone says balancing, they arent talking about making it so everyone, regardless of skill level, is equal. Balacing has to do with the actual character itself, not the person.

To balance the game you could make kirby more powerful, bowser quicker, slow down fox , etc etc. That would in effect make it so that every character is equal in terms of pros and cons and that two people of equal skill level can use any 2 characters and have it be a draw. Thats what balancing is, not making it so that the guy who sucks complete *** can beat the pro.

Please stop posting until you know what your talking about and can articulate it properly.

This is mario-man, and I approved this message!!!


(except for the cussing)

 

[petre]

i agree with toshiba, theres too many people that believe 'balancing' is making it so the skill levels of the players is irrelivent, and every individual has an equal chance...thats completely wrong, in fact the truth is the complete opposite from this. making it perfectly balanced would make it so the more skilled player would beat the lesser skilled player every time, regardless of moves/characters/items. but since these things are not perfectly balanced, you will always have some people of less skill winning.

 

[zerosin]

Yup, justin said it perfectly.

To all the people who want items soo bad, why dont you guys just go back to a state of ignorant bliss? Weve all been there, before knowing about smashboards and advanced tactics. Back when it was cool to use items and the best player in your group of friends was the guy who knew when to roll. If you love items, just dont go to tournaments, dont post on smashboards, and dont bother improving in any way. Sit at home with your friends, turn turtle shells up to max, and have a ball.

Now i know the response im gonna get is "o so smashboards is only for pros now?", the short answer to that is a resounding yes. The long answer would be, smashboards is a place for people who enjoy super smash brothers and either play competitively, aspire to play competitively, or just want to improve their game. If you feel that items are a godsend and that they should definetly be included in tournament play, then you are not in any of these 3 categories. Items are a crutch and since you are figuritively crippling yourself, then you obviously do not want to improve. So again, stop posting here and just go play with your oblivious friends.

Aye, I agree. Actually, I turned off items even before coming to smashboards mainly because they were just annoying and unneeded. I mean, I could own my friend, but if i happened to lag by mistake and he threw an explosive box at me while I was at 100%, I flipped.
Tactically, items make the tournament game useless. Understandably, smash was made for pick-up and play, but after coming here, you learn so much new stuff it's freakin' nuts (or that's how I felt the first week into it).
As an item, the super move will be heavily debated on. Now, if somehow this idea changed, having charge bars like SFA would also not work; smash is its own incarnation. So, I don't know how you could implement these special moves effectively at all into competition (if one were to try, that is). And we don't know how much dmg they will do, so that also adds a crux in the whole thing.
Until more information is given, I'll just assume super moves won't be in tourneys. 'Nuff said.

 

[Toshiba]

Wow, good post.