[Source Gaming] Sakurai Talks About Fan Criticism

In his 495th installment of the Thoughts About the Video Games column, Sakurai discusses fan criticism following the reveal of Cloud in the last Nintendo Direct. After Cloud's reveal, some fans complained that Cloud was 'not Nintendo enough' to be in Smash.

Source Gaming has the full column translated for fans to read.

In the column, he begins with how George Lucas has stepped away from the newest Star Wars:

Separate from that, in an interview in the American edition of Vanity Fair, Lucas himself apparently said “you go to make a movie and all you do is get criticized. And it’s not much fun. You can’t experiment.”

He continues,

A truly serious problem….! He’s such a big name, and to hear him leave this franchise that has impassioned so many fans, a person who worked on the originals with his own hands, is incredibly sad and frustrating. Personally, George Lucas’s work is the work I would really like to see.

Sakurai is no stranger to this himself.

However, I truly understand his feelings. You could say my body is filled with these feelings. Making something, and completing it is a huge undertaking, and there are a lot of places where fans can’t see. It’s like building a house, but people focus on a single painting that’s hung up on a wall in one room, and fixate on it, and keep listing off their complaints of that painting. These situations are very common.

He then goes on to connect that feeling with the Smash Bros. series. You can read the rest of the column here.

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Agree? Disagree? Let us know in the comments what you think of Sakurai's comments.

PushDustIn wants to wish the Smash community a Happy New Year! You can follow him on Twitter in order to stay up to date.

 

It is good he can take critisim which also means people can stop kissing his butt 24/7

Quite, and on the flipside stop the crowd that burn Sakurai effigy dolls as well.

 

We have one of the most solid Smash Games ever made and I am not talking about competitively but the overall package. You have 8 player smash, Over 50 characters and among them are video game giants such as Mario, Sonic, Pac-Man, Ryu, and Cloud altogether in one game. You have a selection of N64, Melee, Brawl, and original Smash 4 stages to choose from. This time around we have a much better Online experience, Tournament Mode, Replay Mode, Spectator Mode, and Final Destination versions of every stage.

We can connect our 3DS to the game to transfer data between the console and the handheld. You can customize your fighter, Level Up Amiibos, and even use your very own mii to join in the battle. Then you also have 2 player co-op player for the Adventure campaign. Now we have DLC which at one point I had doubt that there were going to be any at all.

We have a fully complete packaged game, what more do you want? Yeah, I wanted Isaac, Krystal, and Chrono in the game but it didn't happen because all of this DLC was just bonus content to me. I was very satisfied with its default roster and would have still enjoyed it. The direct ended two weeks ago and this topic is still up for debate. Its done and over with, lets enjoy the game for what it is instead of what it should be. Plus I would rather for them to save more characters for the next entry because there is no way they are abandoning this money maker of a franchise.

You say all these things like the people complaining don't enjoy the game anymore. I love the game, still play it when I can as much as possible, but that doesn't mean I'm happy with many of the decisions made (many of which you yourself listed) along the way.

 

Could the George Lucas comparison be a hint that Sakurai is thinking of selling Smash to Capcom?

 

[deleting]

 

[deleting]

 

And I've always had an issue with people like you who climb up on their high horses. I don't think you get it - this is not a charity. Sakurai is not donating the game to us out of the goodness of his heart. We express our gratefulness by BUYING THE GAME, but we are still allowed to express our opinions about the product we spent our money on.

I suppose my initial comment did sound like I was kind of whining... While I won't dispute the business standpoint, from an artistic standpoint, I'm impressed he has not been noticably frustrated or disillusioned about trying go please the fanbase... and consistently coming up short because they want something they had before.

This doesn't make any sense considering the characters they have chosen to add/continue to include in the game. Pit was irrelevant when he was added to Brawl. Captain Falcon may have achieved meme status in Smash but F-Zero is pretty much dead. Mr. G&W and ROB haven't been relevant for at least 25 years and yet there they are. Ness was only in one single game and Earthbound is almost certainly done with, and yet they still care enough about him to continue to include him. Why shouldn't they give two s**ts about Wolf?

There was absolutely no reason for Wolf not to come back, especially when they brought back every other cut veteran that didn't have a valid reason to be cut. That's what ticks me off. He was much less of a clone than certain other characters they decided to add to the roster, he was one of the few playable villains, and he had a lot of personality. He deserved to be in the game.

considering past history to the cut Melee vets going into brawl, Smash fans will mourn for just about anyone who doesn't make it into the next game. Granted I'll sympathize with the next guy about Wolf being left out of the direct, but G&W is back because he's a vet represeting retro games, as is ROB. StarFox already has Fox and Falco, and personality or not, Wolf was a semi-clone and if he DID return, you can bet there goingto be a group complaining how he's "just another clone".

also, unlike folks who are frequently crying foul and stuff, I'm still optimistic on him possibly returning at the last minute. Sakurai said Bayonetta was the last "new challenger", not the last "fighter developed". With Star Fox Zero still on the way next year, it's very possible to bring him back for the same marketing reasons as Corrin.

 

So if Smash is going down the Star Wars route, does this mean all future games will be inferior, uninspired rehashes of Melee/64 that blatantly pander to the worst elements of the fanbase?

 

When it comes down to it, I don't give a good god damn which characters get in, and which ones don't. You just can't please everybody when it comes to a roster. All I want is a game director, and by extension, a company who cares about competitive play, instead of trying to snuff it out in passive-aggressive fashion.

I also want transparency. They never once told us that our ballot votes would be little more than a suggestion. They never communicated what was going on when the ballot was active, who was leading, whether Mewtwo, Ryu, Roy, Lucas, Cloud, or Corrin were a part of it or not. They certainly didn't post quantifiable results.

Pure and simple, they shouldn't have called it a ballot.

Detailed Patch notes wouldn't hurt either, you know. It's kind of amusing how Splatoon has them but we don't.

My point is, I'm not salty because of what we did or did not get from them.
I'm salty because of how they are treating us.

 

So if Smash is going down the Star Wars route, does this mean all future games will be inferior, uninspired rehashes of Melee/64 that blatantly pander to the worst elements of the fanbase?

I'm pretty sure what a good portion of people want.




Well, the rehashes of Melee part.

 

I'm pretty sure what a good portion of people want.




Well, the rehashes of Melee part.

People want a "Melee HD" so they don't have to bring around CRTV's anymore, not much else. Plus, I don't see how it panders to the worst elements of the fanbase, either. Melee was really good and people still play it, an HD update is asking a lot less than a whole new game.

Sorry for the semi-related rant, I just don't see how your example works.

 

BECAUSE ITS JUST AS MUCH MY GAME AS IT IS SAKURAI'S.

Not in the least is this statement true. You are under some horrible pretext that you somehow own the intellectual properties contained within Sm4sh; whether that is based off your fan-ship or the fact that you own a copy of the game. By your own logic, every single person amongst the millions of people playing Sm4sh should have had their choice character added to the game. Grow up, the world doesn't revolve around you.

Now whether or not this selfish statement you made is your actual opinion or you just trolling online doesn't matter, cause it either paints you as being a sad parasite who has nothing good to offer.

 

People want a "Melee HD" so they don't have to bring around CRTV's anymore, not much else. Plus, I don't see how it panders to the worst elements of the fanbase, either. Melee was really good and people still play it, an HD update is asking a lot less than a whole new game.

Sorry for the semi-related rant, I just don't see how your example works.

A HD Melee should happen and it's ridiculous it hasn't when, lol, Twilight Princess gets one.

And I was being fairly sarcastic but forgot to put #sarcasm. Though, seriously, I've been around the community enough to see that when a new Smash game comes out (Brawl and 4), melee fans expect/want it to play like Melee. And then rage when it's not what they wanted it to be.

 

A HD Melee should happen and it's ridiculous it hasn't when, lol, Twilight Princess gets one.

And I was being fairly sarcastic but forgot to put #sarcasm. Though, seriously, I've been around the community enough to see that when a new Smash game comes out (Brawl and 4), melee fans expect/want it to play like Melee. And then rage when it's not what they wanted it to be.

Oh sorry, misread that. I think Melee fans have hope that the gameplay will return to its former glory, and I can't fault them for that. They like what they like, what can yiu do? That being said, I think many of them have given up on that hope, and are just asking for an update to their favorite game now, which just seems like a fair compromise and money in the bank, to me.

 

You know I really, really don't get why people are saying they don't understand why Sakurai choose the characters he did considering he's outright said why already.

• Mewtwo was a very popular character that people wanted back
• Lucas and Roy were the most popular Brawl/Melee vet to return.
• Ryu was selected because of how iconic he is and having completely unique mechanics.
• Cloud was chosen because he was a dream character and the most popular Final Fantasy character.
• Corrin was chosen because he was a character that could do things no other character could and was from a new game.
• Bayonetta was chosen because she was the most requested character in the Smash Fighter Ballot that could work in Smash.

When looking at the DLC that's one character, arguably two if you include Ryu (but most people have been very satisfied with his inclusion so I'd disagree heavily with that argument) that were not included because of fan demand. Every other inclusion was motivated in some way by what the fans wanted. Corrin was included for one simple reason, Sakurai created the final three characters with them being as unique as possible in mind. Heck the title of the Famitsu column explaining his logic was Three New Characters, As Diverse As Possible.

I don't understand how people can say Sakurai doesn't care about the fans when every single DLC character was picked either out of fan demand or because of their potential to be a fun and unique characters. And I don't think in the article Sakurai is referring to the people who say "I believe Wolf should have been added instead of Lucas" I think he's talking about the people who say "I'm tired of Sakurai adding weeabo pieces of **** like Corrin into this game" or "Sakurai's a ****ing idiot for saying Bayonetta's more popular then K. Rool". And I've seen both of those statements said. People don't have to agree with Sakurai, but they should at least respect the work that went into the 58 characters that were chosen, instead of fixating on one or two that weren't.

 

I want a new director for Smash 5. That is all.

 

"You're free to criticize but don't lose faith..."

So, does that mean that is there more to come...?

I hope it does...

 

I want a new director for Smash 5. That is all.

How would that improve things?

Just replace Ben Chang with Sakurai.

 

People want a "Melee HD" so they don't have to bring around CRTV's anymore, not much else. Plus, I don't see how it panders to the worst elements of the fanbase, either. Melee was really good and people still play it, an HD update is asking a lot less than a whole new game.

Sorry for the semi-related rant, I just don't see how your example works.

Not criticizing the idea of Melee HD, as I'd personally like the idea of a "Smash collection" of all previous games compatible with HDTVs. I'm criticizing the idea of a whole new game that clings too closely to Melee's design paradigm and doesn't do anything to meaningfully advance the series. I was really criticizing the new Star Wars more than anything Smash related. PM's not really what I personally want for the future of Smash, but as an extension of Melee it's still better than The Force Awakens is for Star Wars.

 

You know I really, really don't get why people are saying they don't understand why Sakurai choose the characters he did considering he's outright said why already.

• Mewtwo was a very popular character that people wanted back
• Lucas and Roy were the most popular Brawl/Melee vet to return.
• Ryu was selected because of how iconic he is and having completely unique mechanics.
• Cloud was chosen because he was a dream character and the most popular Final Fantasy character.
• Corrin was chosen because he was a character that could do things no other character could and was from a new game.
• Bayonetta was chosen because she was the most requested character in the Smash Fighter Ballot that could work in Smash.

• Because a lot of those reasons are either not very good, or easily contradicted.
  
  Saying "I picked Cloud as a dream character" doesn't justify the inclusion for very many detractors, and saying Roy is the most popular Melee vet when he just added Mewtwo contradicts itself. Iconicness doesn't matter to everyone, Lucas being more popular than Wolf in anywhere other than Japan in extremely questionable, unique movesets/playstyles can be made for anyone, and Bayonetta winning the ballot has been doubted since the announcement. People want better explanations than that, and honestly, after dragging them on a year-long hypefest where he promised "fan-service", they kind of deserve a better one too.

When looking at the DLC that's one character, arguably two if you include Ryu (but most people have been very satisfied with his inclusion so I'd disagree heavily with that argument) that were not included because of fan demand. Every other inclusion was motivated in some way by what the fans wanted. Corrin was included for one simple reason, Sakurai created the final three characters with them being as unique as possible in mind. Heck the title of the Famitsu column explaining his logic was Three New Characters, As Diverse As Possible.

Any character has the potential to be as unique as Sakurai desires if he truly wants them to. He just has to put forth the effort. If he doesn't want to take as many creative liberties as it would take for characters like Wolf, characters like Inklings and Isaac were always on the table. There was really no good reason to put in Corrin with all the options available, especially if he thought the series he came from was over-repped already.

I also strongly disagree with your justification of Ryu to the roster. He brings a unique playstyle, sure, and people have responded positively to it, yes, but this is done with really any character that enters the game after the fact. Point is, before he was announced, people didn't want him, many even made a point of this, and with a plethora of characters that have obvious potential still waiting, I see no reason he made it in instead.

As for the fans influencing the decisions, I both agree and disagree. Mewtwo is the only character I felt made sense throughout the whole thing. He was a globally popular vet ffs, I still don't get why he didn't take precedence over a handful of other Pokemon in the starting roster in the first place. After that, each character's popularity is either highly region based, or only gameplay based (popular after the fact). If I had to guess, if a character like Ryu ended up sucking or wasn't that inviting to play, no on would give a **** about him.

I don't understand how people can say Sakurai doesn't care about the fans when every single DLC character was picked either out of fan demand or because of their potential to be a fun and unique characters. And I don't think in the article Sakurai is referring to the people who say "I believe Wolf should have been added instead of Lucas" I think he's talking about the people who say "I'm tired of Sakurai adding weeabo pieces of **** like Corrin into this game" or "Sakurai's a ****ing idiot for saying Bayonetta's more popular then K. Rool". And I've seen both of those statements said. People don't have to agree with Sakurai, but they should at least respect the work that went into the 58 characters that were chosen, instead of fixating on one or two that weren't.

No one says (at least to my knowledge) that he doesn't care about us, we just think that he made many poor decisions, and would like more clarification as to why they were made. **** fans exist everywhere, responding to them is fruitless, because they'll be angry no matter what, so if he's responding to their one-liners of criticisms, he's wasting everyone's time including his own.

 

How would that improve things?

Just replace Ben Chang with Sakurai.

All depends who it's given to.

 

Not criticizing the idea of Melee HD, as I'd personally like the idea of a "Smash collection" of all previous games compatible with HDTVs. I'm criticizing the idea of a whole new game that clings too closely to Melee's design paradigm and doesn't do anything to meaningfully advance the series. I was really criticizing the new Star Wars more than anything Smash related. PM's not really what I personally want for the future of Smash, but as an extension of Melee it's still better than The Force Awakens is for Star Wars.

Really though, what needed to be done to "advance the series" after Melee, gameplay wise? I remember thinking about how satisfied I was with the total experience when I was younger, and if they just added more characters and stages, I would've been totally fine. I think PM added a few things that really made the game feel like a true successor to Melee, but really more content was all that I personally ever wanted before. Brawl kind of funked everything up for me, and now there will forever be an internal debate as to "how the game should play" when that was never really a problem before.

Also, I've yet to see 'the Force Awakens', so I'm not really getting the reference.

 

Honestly, I feel like the gameplay of Melee will stay in there, but somehow, I have the suspicion that one day it might go back to it, but with the differences that the games have accumulated with the years to now.

 

So how about that Melee 2, right, Samurai?

 

Saying "I picked Cloud as a dream character" doesn't justify the inclusion for very many detractors, and saying Roy is the most popular Melee vet when he just added Mewtwo contradicts itself. Iconicness doesn't matter to everyone, Lucas being more popular than Wolf in anywhere other than Japan in extremely questionable, unique movesets/playstyles can be made for anyone, and Bayonetta winning the ballot has been doubted since the announcement.

Cloud has had an insane amount of requests from people who didn't have the notion of "rules" that said he couldn't make it in, and I guarantee that there would have been a lot more people asking for him if they knew he had a chance. If those detractors don't think Cloud's addition made a lot of people happy they're wrong. Roy is a very popular character, remember when the crowd started chanting "Roy's our boy" at the Nintendo World Championships? Yes, they added Mewtwo into the game, but he was his own thing while Roy was made specifically to pair with Lucas. Iconicness doesn't matter to everyone, but it matters to a lot of people. Heck, Smash as a whole was created around the idea of icons fighting each other.

People want better explanations than that, and honestly, after dragging them on a year-long hypefest where he promised "fan-service", they kind of deserve a better one too.

Sakurai never actually promised "fan service", that was an assumption made on the translation end.

"His specific wording here is “サービス,” literally “service.” While the definition of “service” in Japan does have its own nuances compared to what it means in English, I’m assuming based on context here that he’s referring to “fan service,” in reference to the ballot, although he never explicitly says this."

What Sakurai actually meant is up for debate. Furthermore, Sakurai might not have the same definition of "fan service" as others do. For example, while some people don't like clones because they believe they take other characters slots (side note, they don't) Sakurai actually considers them fan service as they are basically "free" characters.

Clone characters are for the fans, through and through (literally, “clones are free/ service”). Even if we delete one clone, the amount of new characters wouldn’t increase by one.”

When people set their expectations to having characters like Wolf and K. Rool as "shoe-ins" they're going to be let down.

Any character has the potential to be as unique as Sakurai desires if he so wants them to. He just has to put forth the effort. If he doesn't want do so much imagining like it would take for characters like Wolf, characters like Inklings and Isaac were always on the table. There was really no good reason to put in Corrin.

Sure, Sakurai could come up with a unique moveset for any character. He could come up with a moveset for Inklings, Wolf, K. Rool, Issac, Waluigi, Bidoof, or Ronald McDonald. Heck, Sakurai even said he could make Ridley work if he had enough time. But that's the thing right there, time. Sakurai doesn't have the time to work out all the problems with a playable Ridley, or how to make the Inklings projectile-only nature and ink mechanics translate properly to Smash. Sakurai doesn't have a magic button he pushes for character ideas, if a character concept doesn't come naturally to him he's not going to waste time trying to make it work, and that probably is what happened with the Inklings. Otherwise we'd have Chrom in the game instead of Robin. Corrin is a character who was able to be implemented in an interesting way and was the most fun concept that could be found from the roster of new games.

I also strongly disagree with your justification of Ryu to the roster. He brings a unique playstyle sure, and people have responded positively to it yes, but this is done with really any character that enters the game after the fact. Point is, before he was announced, people didn't want him, and with a plethora of characters that have obvious potential I see no reason he made it in instead.

How about ? Nobody would've asked for him, but he's become one of the most beloved characters in Smash. Or what about or? Nobody asked for these characters either, but now everyone wants them back. The fact that people enjoy playing as Ryu and enjoy how different he is is plenty justification for his inclusion.

As for the fans influencing the decisions, I both agree and disagree. Mewtwo is the only character I felt made sense throughout the whole thing. He was a globally popular vet, I still don't get why he didn't take precedence over a handful of other Pokemon in the starting roster in the first place. After that, each character's popularity is either highly region based, or only gameplay based. If I had to guess, if Ryu ended up sucking, no on would give a **** about him.

It doesn't matter for what reason a character is popular, so long as they are popular. As I've already said Roy, while more popular in Japan, is still a very popular character in other places. Cloud is a hugely popular character globallly, and Bayonetta is another character that's popular everywhere (and that would have been a lot more noticeable if people thought she could get in). Even if Wolf is a more popular character than Lucas, which is debatable, the fact is that Lucas was still a highly requested character, Wolf's popularity doesn't diminish the popularity of Lucas. Yes nobody would have cared if Ryu sucked, just like nobody would be giving a **** right now about if he sucked. Any character who's poorly implemented isn't going to be cared about.

No one says (at least to my knowledge) that he doesn't care about us, we just think that he made many poor decisions, and would like more clear reasoning as to why they were made. **** fans exist everywhere, responding to them is fruitless, because they'll be angry no matter what, so if he's responding to their one-liners of criticisms, he's wasting everyone's time including his own.

Sakurai's already put his reasons out there, and you're welcome to disagree with them. But what Sakurai is responding to is how people suddenly forget all the hard work and effort that's put into the game just because of one element that wasn't, as if the whole game is now ruined because their favorite character wasn't added. It's not a good experience for someone to create something grand and then subsequently have much of it get ignored because of one aspect of it.

 

I'm with the fans on this one. All we want is to know why certain characters are included, and we ask this question with online petitions to remove Corrin from the game, and demanding they show us anonymous, confidential ballot results.

There's actually a petition to have Corrin removed!? Hah! That's golden!

https://www.change.org/p/nintendo-cancelacion-de-corrin-en-super-smash-bros?recruiter=165652794

 

With all the info they released plus the gameplay footage, I doubt the devs are going to dump months of work down the drain for an Internet petition. I'm still going to buy Corrin.

 

There's actually a petition to have Corrin removed!? Hah! That's golden!

https://www.change.org/p/nintendo-cancelacion-de-corrin-en-super-smash-bros?recruiter=165652794

I'm not too surprised. Even though I don't like Corrin, Cancelling her will only stress out devs more and just make all that development all for nothing.

 

A HD Melee should happen and it's ridiculous it hasn't when, lol, Twilight Princess gets one.

And I was being fairly sarcastic but forgot to put #sarcasm. Though, seriously, I've been around the community enough to see that when a new Smash game comes out (Brawl and 4), melee fans expect/want it to play like Melee. And then rage when it's not what they wanted it to be.

Because Melee's physics were a problem and not everybody, like me like Tier Lists?

Also no Pac-Man, Sonic or Mega Man alongside Mario and it just feels inferior, Sorry.

 

Sure, Sakurai could come up with a unique moveset for any character. He could come up with a moveset for Inklings, Wolf, K. Rool, Issac, Waluigi, Bidoof, or Ronald McDonald. Heck, Sakurai even said he could make Ridley work if he had enough time. But that's the thing right there, time. Sakurai doesn't have the time to work out all the problems with a playable Ridley, or how to make the Inklings projectile-only nature and ink mechanics translate properly to Smash. Sakurai doesn't have a magic button he pushes for character ideas, if a character concept doesn't come naturally to him he's not going to waste time trying to make it work, and that probably is what happened with the Inklings. Otherwise we'd have Chrom in the game instead of Robin. Corrin is a character who was able to be implemented in an interesting way and was the most fun concept that could be found from the roster of new games.

The time argument goes out the door with DLC. He could take as much time as he wanted with it, no one would care. Even then, I don't see how a character like Isaac couldn't have been implemented in similar time constraints.

How about ? Nobody would've asked for him, but he's become one of the most beloved characters in Smash. Or what about or? Nobody asked for these characters either, but now everyone wants them back. The fact that people enjoy playing as Ryu and enjoy how different he is is plenty justification for his inclusion.

No one was against them before they were included either. Ryu is one of the few characters many people actually didn't want in. You can't say that for the rest, they just weren't thought of, Ryu had a hate-base, his inclusion was divisive.

It doesn't matter for what reason a character is popular, so long as they are popular. As I've already said Roy, while more popular in Japan, is still a very popular character in other places. Cloud is a hugely popular character globallly, and Bayonetta is another character that's popular everywhere (and that would have been a lot more noticeable if people thought she could get in). Even if Wolf is a more popular character than Lucas, which is debatable, the fact is that Lucas was still a highly requested character, Wolf's popularity doesn't diminish the popularity of Lucas. Yes nobody would have cared if Ryu sucked, just like nobody would be giving a **** right now about if he sucked. Any character who's poorly implemented isn't going to be cared about.
Sakurai's already put his reasons out there, and you're welcome to disagree with them. But what Sakurai is responding to is how people suddenly forget all the hard work and effort that's put into the game just because of one element that wasn't, as if the whole game is now ruined because their favorite character wasn't added. It's not a good experience for someone to create something grand and then subsequently have much of it get ignored because of one aspect of it.

Roy's limited popularity here is mostly because he's a joke, I have no idea why he's popular in Japan so I won't assume.

Cloud may be big, but his popularity within the Smash community was rather small. Acting like it's only because no one thought he had a chance while Banjo killed it everywhere in the ballot, doesn't help convince me that he should be in.

I'm not aware of any type of popularity Bayonetta had in Japan, let alone really anywhere the past 6 or so months.

I'll concede to your Lucas point, though I still believe he should of checked out the West's opinions a little more pre-ballot, because I'm sure Wolf was easily the favorite here.

Characters that have fan bases that are poorly implemented will be cared about regardless. Mewtwo is a good example of this. Wolf (imo) was poorly implemented as well, yet here I am still wanting him back. The Ryu reaction has been about 50/50 the last few months with many changing their minds saying "I like how he plays". Once again, just my opinion, but the community as a whole tends to say this about pretty much everyone, like it's so hard to believe Sakurai can do a character well before they see it (I saw the same exact thing with Pac-Man). Thing that sets Ryu apart right now is he has a strong presence in the competitive community, because he's pretty frickin' broken. Like I said, if he sucked, people wouldn't care about him, because the majority of fans didn't care about his character in the first place, but when Mewtwo and Wolf suck it changes nothing, because people love the characters. My point in all this is I think that's what should matter when selecting the characters.

Anyway, our criticisms of Sakurai are more on who didn't get in then who did. Not explaining Wolf or K.Rool is suspect in my eyes, and that's really all I want to know. When he does explain them, I'll most likely continue to be upset, yes, and most likely disagree with his reasoning as I did with Ridley and the Ice Climbers, but at least I'll have some closure onto this situation, and at least understand what the thought process of his was when he choose not to include 2 characters consistently on the top of the polls. None of this diminishes any of our love for the game, and changes the praise he got for it when it dropped a year ago, once again. The fact is, that's in the past now, and DLC's not over yet, and many of us don't like how it went down, and want him to know about it. He can deny it all he wants, but he made a lot of questionable decisions with the DLC, and a lot of the criticism that he feels is unavoidable wouldn't have ever been there if he filled more universal requests.

 

Because Melee's physics were a problem and not everybody, like me like Tier Lists?

Also no Pac-Man, Sonic or Mega Man alongside Mario and it just feels inferior, Sorry.

Not a good excuse for not rereleasing an extremely popular and famous game even though SB64 was rereleased on Virtual Console. Try agin.

 

Not a good excuse for not rereleasing an extremely popular and famous game even though SB64 was rereleased on Virtual Console. Try agin.

They just ported a N64 game on an emulator. They didn't add HD models or anything. So really "Melee HD" is not nessisary. I'd rather go forward than backward just to remake SSBM with updated graphics. Especially if there are no newcomers to be added.

 

Generally characters are chosen for Smash Bros for at least one or two reasons: 1) they're iconic to Nintendo/video games in general 2) they can bring unique or interesting gameplay mechanics 3) they're so popular as to be significant through sheer presence 4) they're so easy to make that they don't take significant time away from production.

4 is mostly if not all clones, so that's its own discussion.

Why did Wii Fit Trainer get in when other characters did not? Because Wii Fit is one of the best-selling Wii titles, and WFT actually represents an aspect of Nintendo's video game history, that desire to appeal to a more casual audience through simple, motion-based games.

ROB is a significant figure in the history of Nintendo because he helped the NES sell, and is a unique peripheral. Ice Climbers represents early NES games as a whole. Duck Hunt is a combination of those two.

Why did Mewtwo get in as DLC? Because Mewtwo is actually one of the most popular Pokemon ever. I'm not even talking about among Smash fans, Mewtwo consistently ranks very highly in polls among Pokemon fans, and you know how many millions (and millions) of Pokemon fans exist. There's also the fact that Mewtwo was the original Super Legendary.

Want to know why there are so many Fire Emblem characters? Aside from the fact that a couple of them are clones (which fulfills #4), there have actually been a ton of Fire Emblem games in Japan. It might not be something that's obvious to western audiences, but Fire Emblem has a long history AND represents the strategy RPG genre. There are 12 Fire Emblem games (not including remakes) with ever-changing casts, and maybe 6 representatives is a bit too much (but only barely so).

Are people seriously arguing why Cloud would be chosen for Smash Bros? As Sakurai mentions, it wasn't easy, and no, he's never appeared in a Nintendo game in any significant way (Kingdom Hearts whatever version doesn't count). However, he doesn't just represent Final Fantasy, he represents traditional Japanese RPGs as an entire genre of video games. He is THE most recognizable RPG character around the world (though ironically Dragon Quest is a much bigger deal in Japan in terms of being a pop culture icon). Yes, we have Ness and Lucas already, but Final Fantasy is a flagship title that has touched so many more lives than Mother. If anything, the Mother characters represent a quirkier, more unorthodox type of RPG, as well as having closer ties to Nintendo itself.

Same thing with Ryu. He isn't just "some character," he is THE representative character of the entire fighting game genre, to which Smash Bros. owes a huge debt of gratitude. Where would fighting games be without Street Fighter II, the game that sparked the second great arcade boom, the one that redefined what it means to be a competitive video game? If you asked any fighting game creator or company who they thought should represent fighting games, I'm confident that, as long as they're not trying to push their own product above all else, they'd say Ryu in a heartbeat.

 

I still want Cloud replaced with Rocket the Slime next game. Dragon Quest has been around longer than Final Fantasy... Plus from what I heard it's the only Square RPG doing well commercially and critically despite what Square thinks.

 

The time argument goes out the door with DLC. He could take as much time as he wanted with it, no one would care. Even then, I don't see how a character like Isaac couldn't have been implemented in similar time constraints.

No Sakurai still has time constraints with DLC. The devs still have a schedule they need to keep and they can't just keep the team together forever. So he can't take as much time as he wants because
A) People would be left waiting a super long time for the character
B) Nintendo would care, and they aren't going to back a character taking longer unless it's going to make more money to make up for the lost time.
And yes Isaac could have been implemented, but he has a grand total of zero popularity outside of Golden Sun fans and the hardcore Smash players.

No one was against them before they were included either. Ryu is one of the few characters many people actually didn't want in. You can't say that for the rest, they just weren't thought of, Ryu had a hate-base, his inclusion was divisive.

I saw very little opposition to Ryu, and what I did see stemmed from a misquote of something Sakurai said about fighting game characters. And I saw even fewer people complain about his reveal, certainly not the extent we got with Cloud and Corrin.

Roy's limited popularity here is mostly because he's a joke, I have no idea why he's popular in Japan so I won't assume.

Never underestimate the power of memes, they turned into the legend he is today.

Cloud may be big, but his popularity within the Smash community was rather small. Acting like it's only because no one thought he had a chance while Banjo killed it everywhere in the ballot, doesn't help convince me that he should be in.

You know I think this is where the problem lies. I don't give a **** about what's popular in the Smash community, because really we ain't ****. The vast majority of the people who play this game don't associate themselves with the game's community, let alone contribute to random popularity polls or post on forums. DLC, as well as all the other characters in this game, are made for EVERYONE who picks up a controller, and Cloud certainly is a character a lot of people wanted to play. What looks like a huge presence on something like SmashBoards like K. Rool might not matter at all to 80% of the people who play the game. You know what probably got Bayonetta voted highest? The people who visited the Smash Bros. website for whatever reason and saw that they could suggest a character to be added to Smash, and thought Bayonetta would be cool. Someone like Banjo or Isaac only matters to hardcore Nintendo fans, and those are not the majority of Smash players.

I'll concede to your Lucas point, though I still believe he should of checked out the West's opinions a little more pre-ballot, because I'm sure Wolf was easily the favorite here.

We did get though, whose reveal was essentially the equivalent of reveal for Japan, who was complaining about how this irrelevant character was taking a slot from one of THEIR big characters. People are always going to want their opinions valued more, that's the nature of life.

Characters that have fan bases that are poorly implemented will be cared about regardless. Mewtwo is a good example of this. Wolf (imo) was poorly implemented as well, yet here I am still wanting him back. The Ryu reaction has been about 50/50 the last few months with many changing their minds saying "I like how he plays". Once again, just my opinion, but the community as a whole tends to say this about pretty much everyone, like it's so hard to believe Sakurai can do a character well before they see it (I saw the same exact thing with Pac-Man). Thing that sets Ryu apart right now is he has a strong presence in the competitive community, because he's pretty frickin' broken. Like I said, if he sucked, people wouldn't care about him, because the majority of fans didn't care about his character in the first place, but when Mewtwo and Wolf suck it changes nothing, because people love the characters. My point in all this is I think that's what should matter when selecting the characters.

I'm not talking about competitive viability, that means almost nothing. I'm talking about how fun a character is to play. Someone like Mewtwo was a ton of fun to play, just not competitively. Lets say that was as fun to play as someone like or was. Do you really think people would care about him as much? Ryu was chosen because his qualities made him a fun character. And there are a lot of people who would play as Ryu even if he wasn't as good as he is because they love the character, it's just that most of them aren't part of the Smash community.

Anyway, our criticisms of Sakurai are more on who didn't get in then who did. Not explaining Wolf or K.Rool is suspect in my eyes, and that's really all I want to know. When he does explain them, I'll most likely continue to be upset, yes, and most likely disagree with his reasoning as I did with Ridley and the Ice Climbers, but at least I'll have some closure onto this situation, and at least understand what the thought process of his was when he choose not to include 2 characters consistently on the top of the polls. None of this diminishes any of our love for the game, and changes the praise he got for it when it dropped a year ago, once again. The fact is, that's in the past now, and DLC's not over yet, and many of us don't like how it went down, and want him to know about it. He can deny it all he wants, but he made a lot of questionable decisions with the DLC, and a lot of the criticism that he feels is unavoidable wouldn't have ever been there if he filled more universal requests.

Wolf didn't get in the initial roster probably just because they didn't have time to fit everyone from Brawl in and the newcomers, and Wolf was one of the expendable Brawl newcomers (he was added in as an afterthought to begin with as well). He wasn't added as DLC because Lucas was chosen over him, and he couldn't match the popularity of Cloud or Bayonetta or the fighter potential of Ryu and wasn't a super special character from a new game like Corrin. As for why K. Rool wasn't picked... he isn't actually popular. It sucks to say it, considering the amount of people who are passionate for the character, and I'll be mad as hell if he isn't included in the next Smash game, but when taking all the millions of Smash players as a whole, the K. Rool fans make up a small percent. The polls really aren't a indicator of overall popularity. Think a moment for just how many more people visit the main Smash Bros site compared to something like Smashboards or the Smash subreddit, and then it starts to become clear that fan polls don't present a clear picture of what's popular. Wolf and K. Rool were nowhere near as universal as people made them out to be.

 

Do I need to mention Roy is just "Fire Marth" and if I had to pick between him and Lucina I can only have one of them, I don't care which. Lucina is just a glorified alt costume so the hate she gets is well deserved. And because of the Marth trio, when Corrin was revealed we were just sick of it.

And with the FE fanboys feeding on the "salt" of people I don't even want to TOUCH a Fire Emblem title. I never liked RPG's that much but now I am never going to look into any of FE's games out of curiousity. Thanks, guys.

 

Losing 4 characters (ICs, Wolf, Squirtle, and Ivysaur) ain't nitpicking. Plus no one is saying the game sucks, but more of people questioning how he came to certain conclusions. Like if he made as many clones he wants, I don't mind, but the fact he cut characters makes people confused. And calling Wolf a clone..... I know you must have not played Wolf. Funny how you even contradicted your "Sakurai" with calling Wolf a clone then acknowledging that he put 3 clones. This is the mindset we wanna know how he came to.

...pretty sure Luggy was joking.

 

They just ported a N64 game on an emulator. They didn't add HD models or anything. So really "Melee HD" is not nessisary. I'd rather go forward than backward just to remake SSBM with updated graphics. Especially if there are no newcomers to be added.

SB64 still got the recognition though. Nintendo continues to cast a blind eye on Melee. If it's just a rerelease without the updated graphics; it would be well received by a majority of the fans. No, I would not say that Melee is inferior to Smash 4. Nor would I say it's superior. Each installment has its own merits and should be respected as such.

 

No joke. I compared Sakurai to Lucas 2 weeks ago.
https://www.instagram.com/p/_LnhS4iTDf/

Tl;dr
Sakurai is a Lucas

 

No just no, ignore them and forever take no caution in what they say or write because nothing will satisfy them (ever) so ignore them completely.

Also they can whine (like always) but they will continue to play the game no matter what so your company has nothing to worry about other than adding new ideas to bring Nintendo back on top (like in 2004). Good luck. Thanks.

 

I'm sick of you guys cutting the article short and forcing us to go to that dang website! If you're going to post something, post the whole thing, enough with the stupid advertising.