Sonic's Psuedo Chain-grab/Spike combo

[Uncle Fitzy]

I've recently discovered a very useful technique for all those Sonic players out there. First off if you suck at grabbing then you are going to have to practice because in my opinion Sonic is the best grabber and overall tech character in the game (speed is the biggest factor). Note: Opponent percentage and placement on the stage plays a large role in this tech and you should adjust your placement when going in for the finisher.

Anyways here is how you do the spike/gimp combo: When near the edge of the stage (depending on the character and percentage, you may not need to be too close, but the closer you are the more effective it is) down grab your opponent, Note: if he doesn't fall off the ledge good predicting and timing will allow you to pseudo chain-grab him and do it again. If you did this successfully (some characters require a good bit of percentage while other need none at all) the opponent will either fall at 45 degree angle or 90 degrees if you weren't close enough or the character wasn't damaged enough, however most of the time they will go down. This attack acts as a pseudo spike.This is the tricky part. As they plummet pursue them below the stage and either knock them forward (if they are damaged enough to die on the side) or knock them back up against the stage with either a bair or fair(this is utilized the best on Final Destination). If done correctly the opponent will slam against the stage a plummet straight to the bottom. The heavier the character the more effective the attack is, however the three heavy weights are tricky to do this too for some reason. Also keep in mind that unless their percentage is racked up many light characters with good recoveries can survive. On the other hand, many characters such as Ike and Marth may not even require the "stage slam". These two will die simply from the down grab because their recovery won't make it. I have tested this on many different characters and I will list the effectiveness.

I would include a video but my Laptop can't read my SD card for some reason

Effective Against (So far):
Fox**
Falco**
Wolf**^
C. Falcon*, **
Ganondorf*, **
Ike *, **
Marth*, **
Pit (Follow up with a spring to gimp his UpB if you have to)
Ness (Ness and Lucas will often automatically fall under the ledge for some reason after the grab and their UpB will get gimped by the side of the stage)
Lucas
Olimar (Did it to him twice and only received 33% lol)*, **
Ice Climbers *, ** (You will need to separate Nana before you attempt this combo)
Kirby
DK (The 3 Heavy Weights will require a good bit of percentage for the grab spike to work well, however if they go down far enough the stage slam will work very well regardless)
Bowser (Requires being very close to the edge and alot of percentage)
Dedede
Mario*^
Luigi*^
Mr. Game & Watch
Jiggly Puff (Jiggly may require another gimp if percentage is low)
Zelda (Make sure you do it before she initiates her UpB)
Link^
Toon Link^
Samus
Yoshi (Sometimes Yoshi's double jump is immune to Sonic's Bair)
Diddy (Vulnerable while starting UpB)
Wario^

Not Very effective Against (So far):
Pikachu^
Snake^
R.O.B.^
Peach^
Sonic^
Lucario^
Meta Knight



*Stage Slam may not be required
**Performed with very little percentage
***Skeptical... Needs more testing
^Hard to land stage slam

 

[JCrest87]

It's just like Fox/Falco's Dthrow in Melee, im not sure it will be that affective to smart players though.

 

[Uncle Fitzy]

It's just like Fox/Falco's Dthrow in Melee, im not sure it will be that affective to smart players though.

The idea behind it is predicting what the opponent will do after the grab. If you can place the attack well you should be fine, however if the opponent is smart and has enough time to react they can escape near death.

 

[JCrest87]

The idea behind it is predicting what the opponent will do after the grab. If you can place the attack well you should be fine, however if the opponent is smart and has enough time to react they can escape near death.

Have you been able to utilize it affectively against some people? I'd like to hear your insight since you're the first person to bring this up. If it's affective then it's debatable.

 

[Uncle Fitzy]

Have you been able to utilize it affectively against some people? I'd like to hear your insight since you're the first person to bring this up. If it's affective then it's debatable.

One obvious advantage is the fact that most opponents you face probably won't be aware of it or see it coming unless someone masters this combo and its one of Sonic's "Master Combos". But since I discovered it today I only got to use it against my friend and it seemed to work well since people don't react as fast as CPU's do and I found him easier to land the follow up attack on. (He was using Meta Knight btw and I am undecided whether it is a good tech to use on him because Metaknight is one of the only characters I know of that can counter it quite well). Its not a combo I would try to spam on a human player though (unless they are playing Marth or Ike ).

I need to add that it is very hard to stage slam Snake.

 

[Browny]

I use this a fair bit already. along with DI'ing the upsmash to spike them, it destroys characters with bad vertical recovery. its easier, and quicker to follow up with a spring or d-air gimp though.

 

[Uncle Fitzy]

I use this a fair bit already. along with DI'ing the upsmash to spike them, it destroys characters with bad vertical recovery. its easier, and quicker to follow up with a spring or d-air gimp though.

Yeah but sometimes the dair will stab you in the back and the spring won't always hit the target the way you want it too. However sometimes it does knock them under the ledge. I've found the grab easier to perform than the Up Smash for some reason

 

[abit_rusty]

Interesting.

On a side note, @ Uncle Fitzy, you can't take the vids from your SD card and put them on the laptop, unfortunately. See, the wii records controller input, not actual video. So basically your replays just consist of the wii repeating the button presses you did in its memory.

Just fyi to save you the trouble of trying to get it to work (like me >.<).

 

[Uncle Fitzy]

Interesting.

On a side note, @ Uncle Fitzy, you can't take the vids from your SD card and put them on the laptop, unfortunately. See, the wii records controller input, not actual video. So basically your replays just consist of the wii repeating the button presses you did in its memory.

Just fyi to save you the trouble of trying to get it to work (like me >.<).

That makes sense. Thanks for the info. I'll have to wait until I go home for the summer (4 weeks) so I can just record some with a camcorder I guess.

 

[Uncle Fitzy]

I just finished testing the combo against almost every character and I will update the list.

 

[Dragonbreath]

Looks good. When you put the word spike in the title though, you really got me excited.

 

[Uncle Fitzy]

Looks good. When you put the word spike in the title though, you really got me excited.

Yeah I couldn't really decide what to title it. On some characters the grab acts sort of like a spike and the stage slam part is a transitive (transitive property) spike I suppose.

 

[phosphorus]

Interesting.

On a side note, @ Uncle Fitzy, you can't take the vids from your SD card and put them on the laptop, unfortunately. See, the wii records controller input, not actual video. So basically your replays just consist of the wii repeating the button presses you did in its memory.

Just fyi to save you the trouble of trying to get it to work (like me >.<).

I'm pretty sure you can just copy it to your SD card, and play it on your wii. In full resolution, rather than youtube "quality".

 

[Spin Dashie]

Stage spikes have been around since the first smash bros, but still a good find on your part.

 

[Uncle Fitzy]

Stage spikes have been around since the first smash bros, but still a good find on your part.

The reason I believe this to be relevant is the fact that Sonic wasn't programmed to have a spike. So far this is as close as anyone can get to a Sonic spike.

 

[Spin Dashie]

I understand. Apparently Sonic's up smash has spiking potential as well, but its supposed to be situational. The thing is, every character can use the stage to spike opponents straight down. And it works best when you hit them toward the part of the stage that is angled at 45 degrees. Ive done it with Sonic's up-B, bair, and fair. Im pretty sure it works the same with every other character, including the ones that weren't suppose to have spikes. Its just physics in the game that's been there for years.

 

[CT Chia]

its very easy to dodge, not very useful, however its not even an adv tech or something by any means. its just a string of attacks. first off, stop saying pseudo chain grab, its called a tech chase. second, its a stage spike, not a stage slam. this is nothing new.

 

[Uncle Fitzy]

its very easy to dodge, not very useful, however its not even an adv tech or something by any means. its just a string of attacks. first off, stop saying pseudo chain grab, its called a tech chase. second, its a stage spike, not a stage slam. this is nothing new.

If done correctly the follow up attack can't be dodge because the opponent is still in a stun animation. Also air dodging that far under the stage may diminish your chances of recovery. I never said it was an advanced tech and I have never heard mention of this particular strategy from anyone on these boards since Brawl has been released and as far as I can tell no one else here has either.

 

[Spin Dashie]

Well I for one, give you lots of credit for your research on every character's reaction to the stage spike. But one reason why its never mentioned may be because its a really old move dating years back to the first smash bros game.

 

[Uncle Fitzy]

Well I for one, give you lots of credit for your research on every character's reaction to the stage spike. But one reason why its never mentioned may be because its a really old move dating years back to the first smash bros game.

The point I was trying to get across was basically Sonic's stage spike potential and how, from what I have seen so far, is very good compared to most other characters especially because at can be linked more effectively.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Nair is also acceptable. It has a fairly low sending angle.

 

[Disastorm]

I'm not sure I really understand. is the grab supposed to do something weird instead of the standard down grab?