Sonic's new moves in smash 4

[Shuriblur]

I won't jump in on the Spin Dash/Charge debate since I'm not terribly knowledgable on that subject, but being a Sonic fan, I enjoyed the nods to the other Sonic games and the change to the Spin dash that was added in Project M. The slide at the end of the Spin dash was based off of Sonic Adventure 2 and the Sonic advance games. And ever since Sonic Advance, Sonic was starting to become a break dancer, so the the Sonic Battle moves are justifiable.

What I'm try to get at is that I was a little disappointed that there was little influence from Sonic Battle in Sonic's moveset. If they would add something to Sonic's moveset, I would like at least one move that would reference that game.

And while it might sound a little odd, Sonic could be given a short ranged projectile from that game as well. And I had a theory about how it could be implemented. You go to charge up the Spin Charge and before you release B, you press A to jump out of it. Then Sonic could perform the Sonic Wave technique from Battle. (The air version, Sonic Storm, could be added too. Might be tough to do though.)

 

[Espy Rose]

If we're talking about adding in Sonic Battle moves into his Brawl moveset, I'd forego Sonic Wave for the Sonic Drive. It'd make for interesting approaching options as well. But I'd remove Homing Attack for it before any spin based move. The two distinct Brawl spins are too well developed.

I enjoyed the PM moveset pandering myself, but that doesn't make the designs any good. It was incredibly lazy.

I also find it silly to be disappointed about the lack of Sonic Battle representation when the only thing Sega/Sonic Team has done since its release that even references the game is a single song in Sonic Generations. Sega doesn't care about Battle (nor should it), so why should Nintendo?

 

[Shuriblur]

Well if you put it that way, I guess Sega may not care about Sonic Battle, although Emerl has appeared in more that one Sonic game and has appeared in an animation. I just find it odd that some of Sonic's tilts and such are from Sonic the Fighters, and they could've used some Sonic Battle too.

But, I kind of have a feeling that both spins will be back, but they will be changed in some way. Will that bother you if they are? Is they anything that could help or hinder the spins to make them "different" for public view?

 

[Espy Rose]

Emerl has appeared in more than one Sonic game, but the Advance series has just as little exposure overall as Battle does. Not to mention that his appearance in Sonic X didn't include anything from the actual story of the game itself. Sonic Chronicles paid more attention to Emerl than any other game in the series, and that game was produced by a third party company.

SideB already looks different. I don't mind any changes so long as you can still cancel them.
I'd rather they not care to cater to the public view of "looking the same" for the spins too.

 

[Twewy]

I also find it silly to be disappointed about the lack of Sonic Battle representation when the only thing Sega/Sonic Team has done since its release that even references the game is a single song in Sonic Generations. Sega doesn't care about Battle (nor should it), so why should Nintendo?

Capcom hasn't bothered with Mega Man for a while, so why should Nintendo?

 

[Tornado_Man]

Capcom hasn't bothered with Mega Man for a while, so why should Nintendo?

Unlike Mega Man whose entire series has been memorable, Sonic Battle is just one game (and a pretty obscure one at that), which while has many good fighting moves, just aren't as good for showing Sonic's character as say the Spin Dash, Homing Attack, or his kicks.

 

[Twewy]

I'm never making a joke again.

Anyways, in my opinion, I'd like to see actual moves inspired from other Sonic games, rather than from another Sega series (Virtua Fighter). Just what I think though.

 

[Tornado_Man]

I'm never making a joke again.

I can only recognize jokes through voice, man.

 

[Espy Rose]

I'm never making a joke again.

Anyways, in my opinion, I'd like to see actual moves inspired from other Sonic games, rather than from another Sega series (Virtua Fighter). Just what I think though.

Then games like Mugen are right up your alley.
I personally enjoy the modesty employed for Sonic's moveset. Just slapping on moves for the sake of nostalgia and pandering to a small fraction of the target audience is just unnecessary and problematic.

 

[Twewy]

Isn't Smash Bros. just pandering to fans in itself, though?

Also, MUGEN. Ew.

 

[Espy Rose]

It's more of a celebration of Nintendo's legacy.
If this game was about pandering... it'd be a terrible game (Project Melee).

 

[Twewy]

Isn't the whole reason Sonic, the most requested character since Melee, is in Smash is because of pandering? You can use the argument "Sonic's part of Ninty's history", but keep in mind he was still highly requested. And if Sonic shouldn't use a Battle move because the game is highly obscure, why does Mega Man use two Busters ala Super Adventure Rockman?

Anyways, I'm hoping his moves change a little, especially his Homing Attack, and maybe a little more inspiration from Fighters, like that thing where he kicks three times and looks like he's walking (It's been a while okay) as a custom move for his side-smash?

 

[Espy Rose]

I'm done with that conversation. It's happening just for the sake of it.

 

[Twewy]

The Homing Attack better change for the sake of it. Say what you want about PM Sonic, but the Homing Attack is so much better in it than Brawl.

 

[Espy Rose]

It's probably not changing.

 

[Twewy]

A boy can dream.

 

[Gombukelp]

A boy can dream.

I think everyone in this thread wants in to change for the better one way or another.

 

[Twewy]

Apparently not everyone.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Well the bad news is...

 

[Twewy]

We have a picture, yes, but not actual footage of how it works.

 

[Tornado_Man]

We have a picture, yes, but not actual footage of how it works.

9:23.

 

[Espy Rose]

That's why I said it won't change.

 

[Twewy]

Well, damn. Hopefully it gets a damage buff or something, then.

 

[Gombukelp]

We have a picture, yes, but not actual footage of how it works.

Look at my first post in this thread with the linked video, followed by the comments after for discussions concerning possible changes for the Homing Attack.

You guys still need to remember that the game is subject to change though. Many of Sonic's moves that were seen in his reveal trailer have changed significantly and Sakurai may have tweaked them even more since the recorded footage that was shown in the latest direct.

I'm not ruling anything out until E3.

 

[Twewy]

Reminds me of the situation with Kirby's hammer back at E3 2006.

 

[Gombukelp]

Reminds me of the situation with Kirby's hammer back at E3 2006.

Good example.

 

[Espy Rose]

I'm not ruling anything out until E3.

You shouldn't rule anything out until release.

 

[Shuriblur]

My only thought is why keep the Homing Attack the way it is? I found it to be underused as a move when I played. What are the positives to keeping the move they way it is?

 

[Tornado_Man]

My only thought is why keep the Homing Attack the way it is? I found it to be underused as a move when I played. What are the positives to keeping the move they way it is?

Well it has a lot more range than PM's.

 

[Espy Rose]

My only thought is why keep the Homing Attack the way it is? I found it to be underused as a move when I played. What are the positives to keeping the move they way it is?

The same reason that they gave Zelda a downB that's probably worse than her last downB.
Because they don't particularly care about hyper-balancing this game.

I applaud them for it. Perfect character balance is bad.

 

[Gombukelp]

You shouldn't rule anything out until release.

lol I was actually going to comment that even after E3 some of the moves could change allot, but I removed that portion from the text for whatever reason. Don't know why.

You are right though. There is allot of time until release and many things could change which has been shown before. That's why you can't be so sure of yourself that the Homing Attack will stay thesame.

 

[Shuriblur]

The same reason that they gave Zelda a downB that's probably worse than her last downB.
Because they don't particularly care about hyper-balancing this game.

I applaud them for it. Perfect character balance is bad.

I wasn't really expecting perfect character balance. Falcon Punch can't really be used competitively, so I didn't assume all moves would be balanced. I was just thinking that HA could use a tweak to at least hit a bit better since it isn't exactly a kill move.

But, maybe move customization will provide this for those that don't like how it functions. Give a short ranged HA in exchange for better accuracy.

 

[Twewy]

I applaud them for it. Perfect character balance is bad.

Better than no balance. (Was gonna use that one pic of four people picking MK but couldn't find it.)

 

[ShadowLink84]

GGXX:AC wants a word with you Espy.
It has some of the most balanced matchups ever.
The worst matchup is a 65:35 in favor of Potemkin vs Anji, and even that is arguably less than claimed.

Course I feel old mentioning the game.

 

[Twewy]

Dude, I'm younger than you and I know about some Guilty Gear. Never played it competitively though.

 

[Shuriblur]

GGXX:AC wants a word with you Espy.
It has some of the most balanced matchups ever.
The worst matchup is a 65:35 in favor of Potemkin vs Anji, and even that is arguably less than claimed.

Course I feel old mentioning the game.

I don't think Espy was saying character balancing can't be done. Either way, I feel we're getting a little off topic for what this thread is about.

 

[Brendan Stepladder]

When they said they were going for complete balance, they really weren't kidding. Sonic's looking awesome.

God, would it fit Sonic so well if it were easy to taunt cancel with him.

 

[Twewy]

God, would it fit Sonic so well if it were easy to taunt cancel with him.

Look at Sonic's part in the end of the Direct. It looks like a taunt cancel.

 

[Espy Rose]

I said perfect character balance, SL.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I was talking to a friend about this sometime ago and we came up with two things that we feel would be great for Sonic.

His side special can be the boost from Unleashed, Generations, Rush and Colors and it'd control like a much faster version of Wario's bike but deals a little more forward knock back and it'd be useful for horizontal recovery.

Sonic could still have his down special be the spin dash but the jump height for it could be altered to fit what the player wants, if they want to do a short hop with it like the forward special version in Brawl, you can tap the jump button as if you were short hopping normally, same with having it go higher you'd hold down the jump button.

As said before, Sonic can still have the spin dash but in mid-air his down special would change to the bounce attack from the various games and it would act as a fast multi hit dive attack and if it connects just right it could drag opponents with Sonic after the bounce for him to follow up with an air attack.

This stuff combined with the stuff Sonic could do in Project M would make him quite the beast.

Your suggestions reminds me of what McLeodGaming did to Sonic in Flash 2.

If Sonic did get a new move, I'd like to see the "Sonic Drive" move from Battle. Sonic would throw a ring and when pressing side b again, Sonic would dash towards the ring, similar to his Light Dash skill in most of the modern games. This could allow interesting set-ups, and could still be used as a recovery move.

That is actually a good suggestion, though for balance, the throwing part of the move should be more precise and aimable than it was in Battle.

Anyways, I don't think Sonic will be getting any new Special Moves. I just hope he ends up better competitively.